atlflyer
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Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:51 am

Governor Cuomo as well as Delta put out a press release with information on the opening of Concourse G in the Fall. They also released some updated renderings. Doesn’t seem to look as nice as Terminal B/Concourse B at all.

http://news.delta.com/coming-view-delta ... -open-fall
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:00 am

Renderings look really nice to me..
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:44 am

Can LGA's runways accommodate all these new gates?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ScottB
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:56 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Can LGA's runways accommodate all these new gates?


LGA isn't getting new slots so the runways will be just as overtaxed as they are today. And these gates are just replacements for the bus gates.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:30 am

So Delta will have four concourses at LGA?
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:22 pm

ScottB wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Can LGA's runways accommodate all these new gates?


LGA isn't getting new slots so the runways will be just as overtaxed as they are today. And these gates are just replacements for the bus gates.


This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:04 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
So Delta will have four concourses at LGA?

That's what it says, with 37 Gates and central ticketing and security.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:13 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
ScottB wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Can LGA's runways accommodate all these new gates?


LGA isn't getting new slots so the runways will be just as overtaxed as they are today. And these gates are just replacements for the bus gates.


This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway. That line is there as they simply cannot launch as many aircraft as needed with those intersecting runways. In ATL, DTW, or ORD with those beautiful parallels, you can get your takeoff clearance as the other aircraft is rotating, while in LGA there are often minutes between each departure waiting for the landing aircraft on the crossing runway.

As a side note, I really wish the airport would put further restrictions on aircraft size and slots to certain destinations. Something like 17 daily flights to ATL on Delta alone, over 50 daily flights to Chicago across the airlines... when anything goes wrong with the weather, instant chaos. Even on a clear day I’ve put into a hold because ATC got overwhelmed with just the usual high traffic load at peak time. I get the point that frequency helps business travelers, but when your airport has 30-40 minutes of buffer times built into every flight I operate just for standard taxi delays, and I have massive delays almost every week, you have a capacity problem. Beautiful new terminals will just make the inevitable waits more peaceful, I guess ;-)
 
SteelChair
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:42 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
ScottB wrote:

LGA isn't getting new slots so the runways will be just as overtaxed as they are today. And these gates are just replacements for the bus gates.


This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway. That line is there as they simply cannot launch as many aircraft as needed with those intersecting runways. In ATL, DTW, or ORD with those beautiful parallels, you can get your takeoff clearance as the other aircraft is rotating, while in LGA there are often minutes between each departure waiting for the landing aircraft on the crossing runway.

As a side note, I really wish the airport would put further restrictions on aircraft size and slots to certain destinations. Something like 17 daily flights to ATL on Delta alone, over 50 daily flights to Chicago across the airlines... when anything goes wrong with the weather, instant chaos. Even on a clear day I’ve put into a hold because ATC got overwhelmed with just the usual high traffic load at peak time. I get the point that frequency helps business travelers, but when your airport has 30-40 minutes of buffer times built into every flight I operate just for standard taxi delays, and I have massive delays almost every week, you have a capacity problem. Beautiful new terminals will just make the inevitable waits more peaceful, I guess ;-)


Imho the problem is airspace congestion. The proximity of the other 2 airports and the resulting complexity of the airspace create issues on any but a solid VFR day. The slots were awarded based upon a perfect weather day, which never happens. If I were king I would make all slot holders give up 10% of their slots. It would mean less throughput on good weather days but delays would be slightly less on weather days.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:49 pm

SteelChair wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:

This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway. That line is there as they simply cannot launch as many aircraft as needed with those intersecting runways. In ATL, DTW, or ORD with those beautiful parallels, you can get your takeoff clearance as the other aircraft is rotating, while in LGA there are often minutes between each departure waiting for the landing aircraft on the crossing runway.

As a side note, I really wish the airport would put further restrictions on aircraft size and slots to certain destinations. Something like 17 daily flights to ATL on Delta alone, over 50 daily flights to Chicago across the airlines... when anything goes wrong with the weather, instant chaos. Even on a clear day I’ve put into a hold because ATC got overwhelmed with just the usual high traffic load at peak time. I get the point that frequency helps business travelers, but when your airport has 30-40 minutes of buffer times built into every flight I operate just for standard taxi delays, and I have massive delays almost every week, you have a capacity problem. Beautiful new terminals will just make the inevitable waits more peaceful, I guess ;-)


Imho the problem is airspace congestion. The proximity of the other 2 airports and the resulting complexity of the airspace create issues on any but a solid VFR day. The slots were awarded based upon a perfect weather day, which never happens. If I were king I would make all slot holders give up 10% of their slots. It would mean less throughput on good weather days but delays would be slightly less on weather days.


Airspace congestion, particularly on IFR days is a problem. That does not invalidate the serious runway problem. I was talking about 30-60 minute taxis on VFR days. And that reason is not airspace, it’s runways. The moment that other landing aircraft crosses the intersection, I’m cleared for takeoff. Having a single departure runway that intersects a single arrival runway is extremely restrictive.

I agree with giving up slots (or setting a minimum aircraft size, or some time of limit on frequency, all in an effort to use the airport more efficiently).
 
SteelChair
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:54 pm

The only problem with decreasing the slots is that ATC would simply lower their performance to meet the lower expectations. Imho that's why the airlines would never go fot it.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:29 pm

Wasn't there a plan to build a runway parallel to 13/31 over Riker's Island? Any news on that front?
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
trueblew
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:42 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
ScottB wrote:

LGA isn't getting new slots so the runways will be just as overtaxed as they are today. And these gates are just replacements for the bus gates.


This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway.


Did you consider that if you didn't have to wait 10-15 minutes for a push clearance followed by a delay to receive taxi clearance due to taxiway congestion that you would reach the "conga line" much earlier, and your departure delay would be that much shorter?

In a favorable runway configuration (dep 13, arrive 22) with no adverse weather near the departure/arrival gates the weak link is indeed taxiway/ramp congestion.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:48 pm

trueblew wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:

This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway.


Did you consider that if you didn't have to wait 10-15 minutes for a push clearance followed by a delay to receive taxi clearance due to taxiway congestion that you would reach the "conga line" much earlier, and your departure delay would be that much shorter?

In a favorable runway configuration (dep 13, arrive 22) with no adverse weather near the departure/arrival gates the weak link is indeed taxiway/ramp congestion.


In my experience delays to push have been much less significant, and often small, compared to the conga line. I’ve only had a few 10+ minute waits for push, and in any case, it was due to alleyway congestion, not taxiway congestion. And that still pales in comparison to being number 17 for takeoff and waiting 30 minutes (I set my timer to see if the guess I told my passengers is accurate).

EDIT: Just so I’m clear, I am all in favor of new terminals and more taixways. These will certainly improve flow. All I’m saying is these actions pale in comparison to the runway restrictions I’ve seen.
 
trueblew
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:52 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
trueblew wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:

As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway.


Did you consider that if you didn't have to wait 10-15 minutes for a push clearance followed by a delay to receive taxi clearance due to taxiway congestion that you would reach the "conga line" much earlier, and your departure delay would be that much shorter?

In a favorable runway configuration (dep 13, arrive 22) with no adverse weather near the departure/arrival gates the weak link is indeed taxiway/ramp congestion.


In my experience delays to push have been much less significant, and often small, compared to the conga line. I’ve only had a few 10+ minute waits, and in any case, it was due to alleyway congestion, not taxiway congestion.


I think perhaps you're missing the point. The new configuration will alleviate these delays by reducing both alleyway and taxiway congestion. Both arriving and departing aircraft will enjoy fewer delays. Yes, there will still be a long line for departure at certain times, but this project isn't designed to fix that. This project will reduce delays and overall block time by targeting other segments of the flight.
 
ScottB
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:14 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
The good news is that they will have double taxiways.


I've heard this before, but I don't see how that happens for DL's facility. The new terminal will have four concourses; there are three now and the new Concourse G is on the site of the old P5 parking lot. Right now DL parks RJs for bus operations next to the new concourse so there's not a whole lot of room to be gained -- maybe one taxiway worth. I've seen the video that plays inside the terminal and the new concourses appear to go right on top of the old ones. There is no room to build double taxiways in all the alleys between the concourses.
 
twaconnie
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:57 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
Wasn't there a plan to build a runway parallel to 13/31 over Riker's Island? Any news on that front?

Nothing yet. I do believe it will happen.
 
N757ST
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:02 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
ScottB wrote:

LGA isn't getting new slots so the runways will be just as overtaxed as they are today. And these gates are just replacements for the bus gates.


This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway. That line is there as they simply cannot launch as many aircraft as needed with those intersecting runways. In ATL, DTW, or ORD with those beautiful parallels, you can get your takeoff clearance as the other aircraft is rotating, while in LGA there are often minutes between each departure waiting for the landing aircraft on the crossing runway.

As a side note, I really wish the airport would put further restrictions on aircraft size and slots to certain destinations. Something like 17 daily flights to ATL on Delta alone, over 50 daily flights to Chicago across the airlines... when anything goes wrong with the weather, instant chaos. Even on a clear day I’ve put into a hold because ATC got overwhelmed with just the usual high traffic load at peak time. I get the point that frequency helps business travelers, but when your airport has 30-40 minutes of buffer times built into every flight I operate just for standard taxi delays, and I have massive delays almost every week, you have a capacity problem. Beautiful new terminals will just make the inevitable waits more peaceful, I guess ;-)


You’re absolutely right. CRJ-200s which take the same landing slot as an a321 shouldn’t be permitted to operate in such capacity constrained airports. Put a minimum 100 seat cap on the airport and maximize passenger counts.
 
mwmav8r01
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:21 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
ScottB wrote:

LGA isn't getting new slots so the runways will be just as overtaxed as they are today. And these gates are just replacements for the bus gates.


This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway. That line is there as they simply cannot launch as many aircraft as needed with those intersecting runways. In ATL, DTW, or ORD with those beautiful parallels, you can get your takeoff clearance as the other aircraft is rotating, while in LGA there are often minutes between each departure waiting for the landing aircraft on the crossing runway.

As a side note, I really wish the airport would put further restrictions on aircraft size and slots to certain destinations. Something like 17 daily flights to ATL on Delta alone, over 50 daily flights to Chicago across the airlines... when anything goes wrong with the weather, instant chaos. Even on a clear day I’ve put into a hold because ATC got overwhelmed with just the usual high traffic load at peak time. I get the point that frequency helps business travelers, but when your airport has 30-40 minutes of buffer times built into every flight I operate just for standard taxi delays, and I have massive delays almost every week, you have a capacity problem. Beautiful new terminals will just make the inevitable waits more peaceful, I guess ;-)



Why is there no metering? Just baffles me.
 
mwmav8r01
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:23 pm

N757ST wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:

This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway. That line is there as they simply cannot launch as many aircraft as needed with those intersecting runways. In ATL, DTW, or ORD with those beautiful parallels, you can get your takeoff clearance as the other aircraft is rotating, while in LGA there are often minutes between each departure waiting for the landing aircraft on the crossing runway.

As a side note, I really wish the airport would put further restrictions on aircraft size and slots to certain destinations. Something like 17 daily flights to ATL on Delta alone, over 50 daily flights to Chicago across the airlines... when anything goes wrong with the weather, instant chaos. Even on a clear day I’ve put into a hold because ATC got overwhelmed with just the usual high traffic load at peak time. I get the point that frequency helps business travelers, but when your airport has 30-40 minutes of buffer times built into every flight I operate just for standard taxi delays, and I have massive delays almost every week, you have a capacity problem. Beautiful new terminals will just make the inevitable waits more peaceful, I guess ;-)


You’re absolutely right. CRJ-200s which take the same landing slot as an a321 shouldn’t be permitted to operate in such capacity constrained airports. Put a minimum 100 seat cap on the airport and maximize passenger counts.


Lets not get the government involved please... See FAR 117. Arent some airport slots RJ only slots? Makes no sense.
 
TW870
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:34 pm

Does anyone know the next steps with construction? Once Concourse G opens, will they close part or all of Terminal C or Terminal D?

To me, the major improvement here is in terms of vertical space in the buildings. It is going to feel much brighter and more airy in all of these spaces. When Delta re-did Terminals C and D things got better in terms of amenities, but the overall problem is that low ceilings and small windows make the space feel cramped an chaotic. Even with the new taxiways, delays will be chronic at LGA. But at least there will be more space to sit down at the gates, more space to sit down for food, and a much less cramped atmosphere throughout.

Overall, the new terminal and airtrain are massively expensive and will still leave New York with infrastructure that is uncompetitive with most other large cities in the world.
 
afcjets
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:39 pm

Bring back 302 seat DC10s and L1011s into LGA. :banghead:
 
aviationaware
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:23 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
Wasn't there a plan to build a runway parallel to 13/31 over Riker's Island? Any news on that front?


That's not going to happen.
 
EWRamp
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:54 am

afcjets wrote:
Bring back 302 seat DC10s and L1011s into LGA. :banghead:


They'll settle for 738/739 and A320/321s :lol:
 
MrPeanut
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:07 am

Built right up against Flushing Bay. I wonder how many years it will take until Concourse G experiences routine flooding as a result of rising water levels? Hopefully they built some type of water barrier.
 
afcjets
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:08 am

MrPeanut wrote:
Built right up against Flushing Bay. I wonder how many years it will take until Concourse G experiences routine flooding as a result of rising water levels? Hopefully they built some type of water barrier.


I was actually wondering how many years before they put gates on the other side of the concourse and build the ramp out over the bay.
 
Noise
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:52 am

Guys, the other day I flew EWR-RDU at a cruising altitude of 7,000 feet. WTF!? Does that have to due with airspace congestion in and around NYC?
 
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N62NA
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:05 am

Noise wrote:
Guys, the other day I flew EWR-RDU at a cruising altitude of 7,000 feet. WTF!? Does that have to due with airspace congestion in and around NYC?


That doesn't sound right. What airline / flight number / date was this?
How come I can't upload an avatar photo to my profile?
 
Noise
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:28 am

N62NA wrote:
Noise wrote:
Guys, the other day I flew EWR-RDU at a cruising altitude of 7,000 feet. WTF!? Does that have to due with airspace congestion in and around NYC?


That doesn't sound right. What airline / flight number / date was this?


UA2159 on 5/26, EWR-RDU.
 
Noise
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:30 am

I see it was the same for 6/20/2019. What the hell?!? https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /KEWR/KRDU
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:50 am

Noise wrote:
Guys, the other day I flew EWR-RDU at a cruising altitude of 7,000 feet. WTF!? Does that have to due with airspace congestion in and around NYC?


Someone else will be able to give you much more information, but it means that the flight operated through local airspace being handed from tower to tower instead of contacting center. It is a way to get around restrictions when a center says that it won't accept any more aircraft. Generally the choice is to is fly at 7000 or stay on the ground. In your case if the flight was going from EWR to RDU it would almost certainly be due to storms in the South/Mid-Alantic.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:23 am

MrPeanut wrote:
Built right up against Flushing Bay. I wonder how many years it will take until Concourse G experiences routine flooding as a result of rising water levels? Hopefully they built some type of water barrier.

Image
Looks like they've considered the possibility of flooding, since they elevated all utilities to the roof (which is why the building looks so tall and industrial looking).


"As final preparations continue for the opening of the new concourse, Delta teams recently installed passenger boarding bridges at the gates and energized the facility with permanent power. They've also been paving the aircraft ramp areas, testing building systems, and constructing the temporary pedestrian walkway that will connect the new concourse to Delta's existing Terminal D. The security checkpoint in Terminal D will expand to support both concourses until the centralized check-in lobby opens in late 2021.

The new facility features a 12-megawatt Con Edison substation, which is integrated into the upper level of the concourse, providing power for the new terminal. Additionally, all major electrical and mechanical equipment is housed on the upper level to protect such systems from water damage in the event of a major storm. The concourse also features an ice-generation system that reduces electrical consumption at times of peak demand by creating ice at night, when energy demand is lower, and using it to cool the building during the day."


https://news.delta.com/coming-view-delt ... -open-fall
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:29 am

And yes, the new alley should be able to handle double taxi lanes.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:31 am

Is the new 12 megawatt substation going to power the whole airport?
 
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DxerJoe
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:32 am

Noise wrote:
N62NA wrote:
Noise wrote:
Guys, the other day I flew EWR-RDU at a cruising altitude of 7,000 feet. WTF!? Does that have to due with airspace congestion in and around NYC?


That doesn't sound right. What airline / flight number / date was this?


UA2159 on 5/26, EWR-RDU.


It's called "SERMN South." ATC initiative for days when traffic/volume/weather is congesting airspace in the New york area or DC Center, they issue a (usually) mandatory reroute over various points at 8000 feet to keep you out of center airspace. They usually include very specific instructions to not ask to climb. This is for routes down the east coast, Think JFK-RDU, JFK-ORF, EWR-IAD, etc.

In my days dispatching at a regional that goes in and out of JFK/LGA all day, it was very common to see. Especially in the summers.

As an aside, the dispatchers at said regional airline should enjoy the new terminal if for no other reason than the lack of requests for a gate change off of the blast fences. Pilots/passengers/everyone hates the blast fence gates and it was commonplace for pilots to get us to pull strings to get their flights into a different concourse with a jetway. In fact, one pilot sent our OCC Christmas cookies when I pulled it off once.
Last edited by DxerJoe on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Moosefire
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:41 am

Glad to see the overall project moving along. That said I yearn for the day when the “OTG Experience” fad ends.
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
N757ST
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Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:30 am

mwmav8r01 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:

As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway. That line is there as they simply cannot launch as many aircraft as needed with those intersecting runways. In ATL, DTW, or ORD with those beautiful parallels, you can get your takeoff clearance as the other aircraft is rotating, while in LGA there are often minutes between each departure waiting for the landing aircraft on the crossing runway.

As a side note, I really wish the airport would put further restrictions on aircraft size and slots to certain destinations. Something like 17 daily flights to ATL on Delta alone, over 50 daily flights to Chicago across the airlines... when anything goes wrong with the weather, instant chaos. Even on a clear day I’ve put into a hold because ATC got overwhelmed with just the usual high traffic load at peak time. I get the point that frequency helps business travelers, but when your airport has 30-40 minutes of buffer times built into every flight I operate just for standard taxi delays, and I have massive delays almost every week, you have a capacity problem. Beautiful new terminals will just make the inevitable waits more peaceful, I guess ;-)


You’re absolutely right. CRJ-200s which take the same landing slot as an a321 shouldn’t be permitted to operate in such capacity constrained airports. Put a minimum 100 seat cap on the airport and maximize passenger counts.


Lets not get the government involved please... See FAR 117. Arent some airport slots RJ only slots? Makes no sense.


There are no “RJ” slots at LGA. And while far 117 has its issues, it was also an improvement in ways, but that’s for another thread.
 
bigb
Posts: 879
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:02 pm

Noise wrote:
Guys, the other day I flew EWR-RDU at a cruising altitude of 7,000 feet. WTF!? Does that have to due with airspace congestion in and around NYC?


This very common also known as an escape route just to get out of the NYC. I operated a LGA-ORF flight at 6000 feet a few weeks ago.

Didn’t even talked to center once and wished I could have at least gotten 10,000 feet to fly faster than 250 KIAS (go home leg).
 
N757ST
Posts: 703
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:20 pm

I had a SERMN route last year to CHS in an A320. I think it caught the VFR traffic a bit by surprise when tracon was calling us as traffic to a bonanza.
 
Noise
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:39 pm

DxerJoe wrote:
Noise wrote:
N62NA wrote:

That doesn't sound right. What airline / flight number / date was this?


UA2159 on 5/26, EWR-RDU.


It's called "SERMN South." ATC initiative for days when traffic/volume/weather is congesting airspace in the New york area or DC Center, they issue a (usually) mandatory reroute over various points at 8000 feet to keep you out of center airspace. They usually include very specific instructions to not ask to climb. This is for routes down the east coast, Think JFK-RDU, JFK-ORF, EWR-IAD, etc.

In my days dispatching at a regional that goes in and out of JFK/LGA all day, it was very common to see. Especially in the summers.

As an aside, the dispatchers at said regional airline should enjoy the new terminal if for no other reason than the lack of requests for a gate change off of the blast fences. Pilots/passengers/everyone hates the blast fence gates and it was commonplace for pilots to get us to pull strings to get their flights into a different concourse with a jetway. In fact, one pilot sent our OCC Christmas cookies when I pulled it off once.


Thank you. I thought it was relatively unusual. Is there any other part of the world where an equivalent route exists?
 
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DxerJoe
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:26 pm

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:23 am

Noise wrote:
DxerJoe wrote:
Noise wrote:

UA2159 on 5/26, EWR-RDU.


It's called "SERMN South." ATC initiative for days when traffic/volume/weather is congesting airspace in the New york area or DC Center, they issue a (usually) mandatory reroute over various points at 8000 feet to keep you out of center airspace. They usually include very specific instructions to not ask to climb. This is for routes down the east coast, Think JFK-RDU, JFK-ORF, EWR-IAD, etc.

In my days dispatching at a regional that goes in and out of JFK/LGA all day, it was very common to see. Especially in the summers.

As an aside, the dispatchers at said regional airline should enjoy the new terminal if for no other reason than the lack of requests for a gate change off of the blast fences. Pilots/passengers/everyone hates the blast fence gates and it was commonplace for pilots to get us to pull strings to get their flights into a different concourse with a jetway. In fact, one pilot sent our OCC Christmas cookies when I pulled it off once.


Thank you. I thought it was relatively unusual. Is there any other part of the world where an equivalent route exists?


That I don't know for sure, maybe out west. I haven't done commercial out west yet.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1065
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:51 am

N757ST wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:

This. The good news is that they will have double taxiways. As bad as the RWY config is at LGA, the TWYs and ramps probably contribute most of the departure delay time.


As a pilot who flys CRJs in and out of LGA often, I would disagree with this statement. Yes the taxiways are restrictive and cause bottlenecks (especially around the terminal alleyway entrances), but the runways are still the biggest issue in terms of departure delays. Time and time again I sit 30 minutes to an hour in a conga line for the runway. That line is there as they simply cannot launch as many aircraft as needed with those intersecting runways. In ATL, DTW, or ORD with those beautiful parallels, you can get your takeoff clearance as the other aircraft is rotating, while in LGA there are often minutes between each departure waiting for the landing aircraft on the crossing runway.

As a side note, I really wish the airport would put further restrictions on aircraft size and slots to certain destinations. Something like 17 daily flights to ATL on Delta alone, over 50 daily flights to Chicago across the airlines... when anything goes wrong with the weather, instant chaos. Even on a clear day I’ve put into a hold because ATC got overwhelmed with just the usual high traffic load at peak time. I get the point that frequency helps business travelers, but when your airport has 30-40 minutes of buffer times built into every flight I operate just for standard taxi delays, and I have massive delays almost every week, you have a capacity problem. Beautiful new terminals will just make the inevitable waits more peaceful, I guess ;-)


You’re absolutely right. CRJ-200s which take the same landing slot as an a321 shouldn’t be permitted to operate in such capacity constrained airports. Put a minimum 100 seat cap on the airport and maximize passenger counts.


While improving passenger throughput, such a policy would cause many smaller communities to lose service to LGA. The good news for you is that many of the 50 seaters have been parked in favor of 70 and 76 seaters already.
 
max999
Posts: 1100
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:55 pm

MrPeanut wrote:
Built right up against Flushing Bay. I wonder how many years it will take until Concourse G experiences routine flooding as a result of rising water levels? Hopefully they built some type of water barrier.


After Hurricane Sandy, many new building plans in low lying areas were redesigned to make them more resilient against flooding. It doesn't mean the building stays 100% dry, but it means the buildings can resume functioning quickly after waters recede. It's pretty much standard nowadays in New York.

Many existing low lying buildings were retrofitted, too.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
bnatraveler
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:10 am

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:22 pm

More info on the cap & tunneling programs out of NYC: https://www.fly.faa.gov/Operations/CapTunnel/zny_ct.htm

Specific information on SERMN South: https://www.fly.faa.gov/Operations/play ... 003-65.htm
 
aeropix
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:08 pm

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:09 pm

Noise wrote:
DxerJoe wrote:
It's called "SERMN South." ATC initiative for days when traffic/volume/weather is congesting airspace in the New york area or DC Center, they issue a (usually) mandatory reroute over various points at 8000 feet to keep you out of center airspace. They usually include very specific instructions to not ask to climb. This is for routes down the east coast, Think JFK-RDU, JFK-ORF, EWR-IAD, etc..

I thought it was relatively unusual. Is there any other part of the world where an equivalent route exists?


In Southern California there is a system called "Tower / Enroute Control" (TEC routes) which keep aircraft in SOCAL Approach airspace and never handed off to L.A. Center. Its mostly used for General Aviation routes between nearby airports on IFR flight plans but can also be used for commercial traffic on an as-needed basis.
 
twaconnie
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm

afcjets wrote:
Bring back 302 seat DC10s and L1011s into LGA. :banghead:

I sure would like to see that again,back around the early 70's the P.A.predicted 25% of LGA operations would be widebody's and that would handle the increase in passenger's.
Well we all know that prediction didn't even come close.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6591
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Delta to open new LGA Concourse G in Fall

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:07 pm

MrPeanut wrote:
Built right up against Flushing Bay. I wonder how many years it will take until Concourse G experiences routine flooding as a result of rising water levels? Hopefully they built some type of water barrier.


I doubt it would see greater impacts than the rest of the airport given that (somewhat by design) the airport site is, for the most part, one big, flat surface. As others have pointed out, there's some mitigation built into the facility with mechanical equipment being placed on the roof, but the concourse will still be unusable if the ramp is flooded.

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