CRJ200flyer
Topic Author
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:46 pm

http://m.atwonline.com/airframes/lufthansa-cargo-considers-early-retirement-md-11f-fleet

Due to weak demand, Lufthansa Cargo says it may phase out all MD-11s next year. Two aircraft will be gone by the end of the year.

Any thoughts on where the youngest of the fleet might go after?
 
airzona11
Posts: 1588
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:24 pm

Love the look of those birds. Sad to see them go.
 
UPS757Pilot
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:22 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:36 pm

Western Global?
 
wrenchon727
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:20 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:31 pm

FedEx
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 3882
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:40 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Love the look of those birds. Sad to see them go.


What a pity - many a.netters didn’t like LH‘s new livery but I always thought that on their MD11‘s the new colors somehow worked pretty well...
 
DayFreighter
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:34 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:14 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
FedEx

I don't think FX is looking for some more fuel thirsty aircraft given their recent quarter, the slowing air freight market and the hordes of 767s on order.

On the other hand, if the price is right I wouldn't be surprised to see them snatch some up to replace older MD-10/MD-11 capacity
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4477
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:22 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
FedEx


UPS also is possible candidate.
Ben Soriano
 
airzona11
Posts: 1588
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:36 pm

N14AZ wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Love the look of those birds. Sad to see them go.


What a pity - many a.netters didn’t like LH‘s new livery but I always thought that on their MD11‘s the new colors somehow worked pretty well...


Agreed
 
trent768
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:32 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:40 pm

N14AZ wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Love the look of those birds. Sad to see them go.


What a pity - many a.netters didn’t like LH‘s new livery but I always thought that on their MD11‘s the new colors somehow worked pretty well...

Well, she's a beautiful lady. She'll never looks ugly no matter what she wear :D
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6685
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:47 pm

wrenchon727 wrote:
FedEx


For parts,that's probably it.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6685
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:48 pm

UPS757Pilot wrote:
Western Global?


Good possibility.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
FLALEFTY
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:49 pm

I would imagine that the increasing MRO costs for the MD-11 has to be a factor in this fleet early retirement decision by LH, too.

As for FedEx picking these up on the used market, that might not happen, either. FedEx lost $2B in the last quarter, and while some of that loss was due to a non-recurring charge to fund their pension obligations, they also reported softening demand in Europe and Asia, both markets where their MD-11's are frequently used.

I think that some of LH's MD-11's that have been retired have already been parted-out in places like Victorville. However, the ones of the dozen still to be retired and with the lowest time since their last major check will probably find new owners from smaller cargo airlines.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6500
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:11 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
Any thoughts on where the youngest of the fleet might go after?


To be used for flights, I'd say Western Global. For parts, any of the current operators.

FLALEFTY wrote:
I think that some of LH's MD-11's that have been retired have already been parted-out in places like Victorville. However, the ones of the dozen still to be retired and with the lowest time since their last major check will probably find new owners from smaller cargo airlines.


Only a couple of the second-hands P2F-converted aircraft.

https://www.planespotters.net/fleet/lis ... type=MD-11
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 3941
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:26 pm

trent768 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Love the look of those birds. Sad to see them go.

Well, she's a beautiful lady. She'll never looks ugly no matter what she wear :D



The word lady may only be applied to Concorde!

Since Concorde, every tube and wing is a HE!
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 2118
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:14 pm

PW100 wrote:
trent768 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:

Well, she's a beautiful lady. She'll never looks ugly no matter what she wear :D



The word lady may only be applied to Concorde!

Since Concorde, every tube and wing is a HE!


Except for the Queen of the skies! :biggrin:

Regards
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6562
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:55 pm

I believe LH's older MD-11s are the fleet leaders in hours. I strongly doubt they're going to continue in service.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:42 am

FedEx seems happy with the 77F and UPS seems to be moving to a 767-747 strategy. They didn't want any part of LH's previous four MD11s so I doubt they'll have any interest in these.
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5499
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:03 am

The MD-11 is on its way out everywhere. Support will be getting more and more expensive, and I doubt that Boeing is interested in helping any operators prolong their life. I strongly suspect that all the ones flying today are flying for their last operator.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:41 am

SEPilot wrote:
The MD-11 is on its way out everywhere. Support will be getting more and more expensive, and I doubt that Boeing is interested in helping any operators prolong their life. I strongly suspect that all the ones flying today are flying for their last operator.


Naa, these birds were probably maintained impeccably, and as of last month I already saw one LH bird at the western global hangar in SHV. They'll get picked up and used for quite a while. Probably by Western Global or a third world operator.
 
jagraham
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:52 am

Boeing is always interested in helping operators prolong the life of aircraft they are responsible for ;) The question is, at what cost?

As far as air freight itself, the long term trend is up. Air freight powers internet commerce. And with Amazon moving Prime to next day (which requires air shipment in some cases), there will be heavy demand for used freighters. Nevertheless I expect that LH Cargo's MD-11s will go to smaller operators (FedEx and UPS are past the time where their planes fly one round trip per day, so their costs are starting to look more like passenger airlines) for five to ten years before becoming cans.
 
acjbbj
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:59 am

FedEx would use some for parts.

Western Global might pick some up and keep flying them, while UPS might fly some while using one or two for parts.

Or Amazon?
Douglas Aircraft Company
Born: 22 July 1921 (Santa Monica, CA)
Died: 23 May 2006 (Long Beach, CA), age 84 years 10 months 1 day
You will be missed.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:06 am

seabosdca wrote:
I believe LH's older MD-11s are the fleet leaders in hours. I strongly doubt they're going to continue in service.


You mean for LHCargo? I was under the impression that most of the remaining 744s were well over 115.000hrs...
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6562
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:13 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
You mean for LHCargo? I was under the impression that most of the remaining 744s were well over 115.000hrs...


No, I mean for the worldwide MD-11 fleet.

Particularly before the 777Fs started arriving, LH Cargo's MD-11s were used much more intensively than most cargo aircraft.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:26 am

seabosdca wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
You mean for LHCargo? I was under the impression that most of the remaining 744s were well over 115.000hrs...


No, I mean for the worldwide MD-11 fleet.

Particularly before the 777Fs started arriving, LH Cargo's MD-11s were used much more intensively than most cargo aircraft.


Ah! Ok, that makes sense. Yeah, they may be way up there. But most are also dedicated F variants from the start. That may give them some advantage on the market, provided they're far enough from an HMV.
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4423
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:05 am

Delta recently bought 6 MD-11Fs just to get their engines for use on their 767 fleet. Those CF-6s are valuable, we will see if even more so than the rest of the airframe.

Are Western Global still flying for UPS?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5499
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:09 am

Sean-SAN- wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
The MD-11 is on its way out everywhere. Support will be getting more and more expensive, and I doubt that Boeing is interested in helping any operators prolong their life. I strongly suspect that all the ones flying today are flying for their last operator.


Naa, these birds were probably maintained impeccably, and as of last month I already saw one LH bird at the western global hangar in SHV. They'll get picked up and used for quite a while. Probably by Western Global or a third world operator.

It doesn’t really matter how well they are maintained if parts are unavailable or prohibitively expensive. Seeing as only about 200 were ever built the supply of used parts will also dry up soon. Boeing has absolutely zero incentive to help keep them flying, and there are boatloads of second hand 767s out there that can be converted, and are much cheaper to fly and maintain. Support for them will not go away soon, they are still being built.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:22 am

This article (https://www.austrianwings.info/2019/06/ ... tte-still/) in German sounds a lot more definitive. Also mentions that the capacity will be only partially replaced with new 77F. The "talks with unions" mentioned in the ATW article are to ensure a future for the crew, some of which may become redundant.
 
User avatar
Slash787
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:35 am

They should have been retired a few years ago, but well I thought LH would keep them till at least 2025, but well they made a sensible decision.
 
stylo777
Posts: 2748
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:30 am

Spacepope wrote:
Delta recently bought 6 MD-11Fs just to get their engines for use on their 767 fleet. Those CF-6s are valuable, we will see if even more so than the rest of the airframe.

Are Western Global still flying for UPS?

Thats an interesting one; didn't know that you can easily put a MD11 engine onto a 767 (despite being the same type...)
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6562
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:51 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Thats an interesting one; didn't know that you can easily put a MD11 engine onto a 767 (despite being the same type...)


MD-11s, later-build 767s (200ER/300ER), and 747-400s use interchangeable engines (provided they aren't RR, which wasn't an option on the MD-11).
 
UA444
Posts: 2786
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:17 pm

SEPilot wrote:
Sean-SAN- wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
The MD-11 is on its way out everywhere. Support will be getting more and more expensive, and I doubt that Boeing is interested in helping any operators prolong their life. I strongly suspect that all the ones flying today are flying for their last operator.


Naa, these birds were probably maintained impeccably, and as of last month I already saw one LH bird at the western global hangar in SHV. They'll get picked up and used for quite a while. Probably by Western Global or a third world operator.

It doesn’t really matter how well they are maintained if parts are unavailable or prohibitively expensive. Seeing as only about 200 were ever built the supply of used parts will also dry up soon. Boeing has absolutely zero incentive to help keep them flying, and there are boatloads of second hand 767s out there that can be converted, and are much cheaper to fly and maintain. Support for them will not go away soon, they are still being built.

Except they do have incentives to make parts, and likely are contractually obligated from original airlines like FX who isn’t retiring them.
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5499
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:35 pm

UA444 wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Sean-SAN- wrote:

Naa, these birds were probably maintained impeccably, and as of last month I already saw one LH bird at the western global hangar in SHV. They'll get picked up and used for quite a while. Probably by Western Global or a third world operator.

It doesn’t really matter how well they are maintained if parts are unavailable or prohibitively expensive. Seeing as only about 200 were ever built the supply of used parts will also dry up soon. Boeing has absolutely zero incentive to help keep them flying, and there are boatloads of second hand 767s out there that can be converted, and are much cheaper to fly and maintain. Support for them will not go away soon, they are still being built.

Except they do have incentives to make parts, and likely are contractually obligated from original airlines like FX who isn’t retiring them.

I was unaware that FX bought any new, and I am also unaware of exactly how long Boeing is obligated to provide support for them. But there is support and there is support. The smaller the fleet the higher the price for parts, and I do not know what the contracts say about how much has to be kept in stock. Delivery times for out of stock parts can be significant. And if Boeing desires to get out of supporting them, which I would expect that they do, they have a lot of leeway in making things slow and expensive for the operators. But maybe they have the attitude that a customer is a customer and our business is to make them happy. That would be nice, as would sugarplums and lollipops.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1389
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 pm

N14AZ wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Love the look of those birds. Sad to see them go.


What a pity - many a.netters didn’t like LH‘s new livery but I always thought that on their MD11‘s the new colors somehow worked pretty well...

I haven't seen this bird yet, but the A359s and B77Fs I have seen in person lot pretty good. I wasn't a fan of the new livery but at least on these and the MD11F it looks sweet.
 
indcwby
Posts: 318
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:41 pm

I highly doubt it will ever happen, but I'd love to see a MD-11 in an Amazon livery.
A319, A320, A330, A340, B717, B727, B737, B747, B757, B767, B777, CRJ7, DC10, MD88, MD11, E145, E175
"Always remember that you fly an airplane with your head, not your hands."
 
airzona11
Posts: 1588
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:32 am

indcwby wrote:
I highly doubt it will ever happen, but I'd love to see a MD-11 in an Amazon livery.


That would something!
 
smartplane
Posts: 1112
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:43 am

UA444 wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
Sean-SAN- wrote:

Naa, these birds were probably maintained impeccably, and as of last month I already saw one LH bird at the western global hangar in SHV. They'll get picked up and used for quite a while. Probably by Western Global or a third world operator.

It doesn’t really matter how well they are maintained if parts are unavailable or prohibitively expensive. Seeing as only about 200 were ever built the supply of used parts will also dry up soon. Boeing has absolutely zero incentive to help keep them flying, and there are boatloads of second hand 767s out there that can be converted, and are much cheaper to fly and maintain. Support for them will not go away soon, they are still being built.

Except they do have incentives to make parts, and likely are contractually obligated from original airlines like FX who isn’t retiring them.

At some point the cost of carrying product liability insurance, and maintaining / updating model documentation encourages an OEM to price support and parts, not to recover costs plus margin, but to ground the remaining fleet.

With Boeing pretty much owning the dedicated air freighter market, formally ending support for the MD11 (or pricing to achieve the same result) is likely to trigger orders for new or converted 777's and / or 747's, though not necessarily on a one for one basis.
 
UA444
Posts: 2786
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:57 am

smartplane wrote:
UA444 wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
It doesn’t really matter how well they are maintained if parts are unavailable or prohibitively expensive. Seeing as only about 200 were ever built the supply of used parts will also dry up soon. Boeing has absolutely zero incentive to help keep them flying, and there are boatloads of second hand 767s out there that can be converted, and are much cheaper to fly and maintain. Support for them will not go away soon, they are still being built.

Except they do have incentives to make parts, and likely are contractually obligated from original airlines like FX who isn’t retiring them.

At some point the cost of carrying product liability insurance, and maintaining / updating model documentation encourages an OEM to price support and parts, not to recover costs plus margin, but to ground the remaining fleet.

With Boeing pretty much owning the dedicated air freighter market, formally ending support for the MD11 (or pricing to achieve the same result) is likely to trigger orders for new or converted 777's and / or 747's, though not necessarily on a one for one basis.

Wrong. Boeing is legally obligated to continue to ensure the safe and reliable operation of the aircraft, for those that fly it and the safety of us on the ground. Boeing even still has to support the DC-8 and there are only 4 flying.
 
UA444
Posts: 2786
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:59 am

SEPilot wrote:
UA444 wrote:
SEPilot wrote:
It doesn’t really matter how well they are maintained if parts are unavailable or prohibitively expensive. Seeing as only about 200 were ever built the supply of used parts will also dry up soon. Boeing has absolutely zero incentive to help keep them flying, and there are boatloads of second hand 767s out there that can be converted, and are much cheaper to fly and maintain. Support for them will not go away soon, they are still being built.

Except they do have incentives to make parts, and likely are contractually obligated from original airlines like FX who isn’t retiring them.

I was unaware that FX bought any new, and I am also unaware of exactly how long Boeing is obligated to provide support for them. But there is support and there is support. The smaller the fleet the higher the price for parts, and I do not know what the contracts say about how much has to be kept in stock. Delivery times for out of stock parts can be significant. And if Boeing desires to get out of supporting them, which I would expect that they do, they have a lot of leeway in making things slow and expensive for the operators. But maybe they have the attitude that a customer is a customer and our business is to make them happy. That would be nice, as would sugarplums and lollipops.

Sure, Boeing can make things difficult. And FX can also phone up Airbus and order 100 A330Fs. Then the Boeing shareholders can sue the company.
 
KFTG
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:59 am

seabosdca wrote:
MD-11s, later-build 767s (200ER/300ER), and 747-400s use interchangeable engines (provided they aren't RR, which wasn't an option on the MD-11).

Actually, it was...for a time. Air Europe ordered the MD-11 w/ RR engines, although they were never delivered as such and ultimately delivered to Delta w/ GE engines.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:42 pm

KFTG wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
MD-11s, later-build 767s (200ER/300ER), and 747-400s use interchangeable engines (provided they aren't RR, which wasn't an option on the MD-11).

Actually, it was...for a time. Air Europe ordered the MD-11 w/ RR engines, although they were never delivered as such and ultimately delivered to Delta w/ GE engines.


Strange. . .

How about DC-10s? I know none were ever delivered w/ RR either, but was it ever an option? I'm inclined to think not, but one never knows. . .
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13645
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:21 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
KFTG wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
MD-11s, later-build 767s (200ER/300ER), and 747-400s use interchangeable engines (provided they aren't RR, which wasn't an option on the MD-11).

Actually, it was...for a time. Air Europe ordered the MD-11 w/ RR engines, although they were never delivered as such and ultimately delivered to Delta w/ GE engines.


Strange. . .

How about DC-10s? I know none were ever delivered w/ RR either, but was it ever an option? I'm inclined to think not, but one never knows. . .
Only the -40s had PW engines, if I recall correctly because back the NW refused to buy them with GE engines (ironically, NW did get -30s later on). I never heard of the DC-10 being considered for the RB211 (which nearly broke their competitor Lockheed back in the day).
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6500
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:24 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
How about DC-10s? I know none were ever delivered w/ RR either, but was it ever an option? I'm inclined to think not, but one never knows. . .


It never was an option, however, during the '80s, it was considered with the DC-10-30R for BA, I believe.

Airbus choose the CF6-50 engine on its A300 for commonality with the DC-10-30.
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 443
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:43 am

Confirmed LHC will accelerate the retirement of MD-11 by end of 2020.

As a result, ordering two additional 777F for delivery in 2020

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -o-462057/
https://cargofacts.com/allposts/busines ... ore-777fs/
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23971
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:38 am

Well at least LH is staying in the freighter business. AFKL has barely any left, while BA exited the business.

Europe does not seem to the market place for legacy airlines to operate freighters these days.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14433
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:10 am

These MD's are pushing 20+ years from when originally made, likely to need heavy mx checks especially for corrosion, are a difficult bird to land, fuel thirsty, and the 3rd engine is difficult to work on. Time to (sadly) move on.
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1414
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:59 am

Saw that one was flying into VCV the other day.
I can drive faster than you
 
foxtrotbravo21
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:52 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:06 am

its also just too expensive in fuel costs to use trijets now.
 
columba
Posts: 5232
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:13 am

N14AZ wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Love the look of those birds. Sad to see them go.


What a pity - many a.netters didn’t like LH‘s new livery but I always thought that on their MD11‘s the new colors somehow worked pretty well...

Sometimes history does repeat itself, when LH retired another trijet the Boeing 727 there was also only one painted in the new colors. Which looked fantastic btw.....
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 6500
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:02 pm

N14AZ wrote:
What a pity - many a.netters didn’t like LH‘s new livery but I always thought that on their MD11‘s the new colors somehow worked pretty well...


I'm not the most fond of LH's new livery but indeed on the MD-11 it looks much better. It's most probably due to the tail shape with the engine. It's like when World Airways introduced a short-lived back in 1992. It was dark blue or black and suited the DC-10 very well.
 
oschkosch
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:12 pm

columba wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
Love the look of those birds. Sad to see them go.


What a pity - many a.netters didn’t like LH‘s new livery but I always thought that on their MD11‘s the new colors somehow worked pretty well...

Sometimes history does repeat itself, when LH retired another trijet the Boeing 727 there was also only one painted in the new colors. Which looked fantastic btw.....
Yeah I drove past that one recently during the bus ride from an apron position in FRA, really wondered why they repainted the rather old plane. It does look great though!

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos