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SQ22
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:31 pm

Some months ago there were rumours of LH switching some 777X orders to additional 777F. I can't remember exactly in which thread this has been discussed.

As a reference I can offer the following link from April (in German only):

Lufthansa will von Boeing lieber 777F als 777-9
 
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:57 pm

 
CX747
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Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:43 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Make up your minds, guys!


I would guess that absence of free cash flow has caused them to take another look.


The 777F and MD-11F are the lifeblood of Lufthansa now. The MD-11's costs, in this market, do not outweigh the profit that it brings in. Until there are other ways for LH to make money, the MD-11Fs will continue on. The MD-11Fs offer a capability to LH that only it and the 777F bring to the table. In that regard, the MD-11Fs are bought and paid for. It would be foolish at this point to park bought and paid for freighters.

Interesting note in the article was the tidbit on a LH executive who was attempting to get rid of all the main deck cargo aircraft. He wanted the "British Airways" model. British Airways right now WISHES it had main deck cargo aircraft. Their best attempt to capture the market has been to transform passenger 777-200ERs to main deck cargo carriers by ripping out all the seats!!!
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Max Q
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:13 pm

BA is hardly the exception in that regard, LH is in the fortunate position of belonging to a very small passenger airline ‘club’ that operates their own dedicated freighter fleet


It’s a twisted sort of ‘luck’ that retaining that capability is a huge advantage at the moment
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Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:06 pm

CX747 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Make up your minds, guys!


I would guess that absence of free cash flow has caused them to take another look.


The 777F and MD-11F are the lifeblood of Lufthansa now. The MD-11's costs, in this market, do not outweigh the profit that it brings in. Until there are other ways for LH to make money, the MD-11Fs will continue on. The MD-11Fs offer a capability to LH that only it and the 777F bring to the table. In that regard, the MD-11Fs are bought and paid for. It would be foolish at this point to park bought and paid for freighters.

Interesting note in the article was the tidbit on a LH executive who was attempting to get rid of all the main deck cargo aircraft. He wanted the "British Airways" model. British Airways right now WISHES it had main deck cargo aircraft. Their best attempt to capture the market has been to transform passenger 777-200ERs to main deck cargo carriers by ripping out all the seats!!!

It amazed me when DL removed the freighters from the fleet. Freight is never glamorous, but significant revenue and consistent profit.

Lightsaber
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MIflyer12
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:43 am

Fifteen dedicated freighters in a carrier with 1,300 mainline and rj aircraft is nothing but a distracting hobby. Business segments that make good returns on capital don't get dumped.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
CX747 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I would guess that absence of free cash flow has caused them to take another look.


The 777F and MD-11F are the lifeblood of Lufthansa now. The MD-11's costs, in this market, do not outweigh the profit that it brings in. Until there are other ways for LH to make money, the MD-11Fs will continue on. The MD-11Fs offer a capability to LH that only it and the 777F bring to the table. In that regard, the MD-11Fs are bought and paid for. It would be foolish at this point to park bought and paid for freighters.

Interesting note in the article was the tidbit on a LH executive who was attempting to get rid of all the main deck cargo aircraft. He wanted the "British Airways" model. British Airways right now WISHES it had main deck cargo aircraft. Their best attempt to capture the market has been to transform passenger 777-200ERs to main deck cargo carriers by ripping out all the seats!!!

It amazed me when DL removed the freighters from the fleet. Freight is never glamorous, but significant revenue and consistent profit.

Lightsaber

Once NW lost the DHL contract it wasn’t worth it anymore, especially as the economy wasn’t exactly booming at that point in time.

Wasn’t the fleet all 742s when they put the axe to it?
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Nicoeddf
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Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:18 pm

lightsaber wrote:
CX747 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I would guess that absence of free cash flow has caused them to take another look.


The 777F and MD-11F are the lifeblood of Lufthansa now. The MD-11's costs, in this market, do not outweigh the profit that it brings in. Until there are other ways for LH to make money, the MD-11Fs will continue on. The MD-11Fs offer a capability to LH that only it and the 777F bring to the table. In that regard, the MD-11Fs are bought and paid for. It would be foolish at this point to park bought and paid for freighters.

Interesting note in the article was the tidbit on a LH executive who was attempting to get rid of all the main deck cargo aircraft. He wanted the "British Airways" model. British Airways right now WISHES it had main deck cargo aircraft. Their best attempt to capture the market has been to transform passenger 777-200ERs to main deck cargo carriers by ripping out all the seats!!!

It amazed me when DL removed the freighters from the fleet. Freight is never glamorous, but significant revenue and consistent profit.

Lightsaber


Sometimes significant revenues and absolutely inconsistent profit is my experience of having been involved directly in the business.
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Nicoeddf
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:19 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Fifteen dedicated freighters in a carrier with 1,300 mainline and rj aircraft is nothing but a distracting hobby. Business segments that make good returns on capital don't get dumped.


Absolutely right
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LHA320
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:41 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Fifteen dedicated freighters in a carrier with 1,300 mainline and rj aircraft is nothing but a distracting hobby. Business segments that make good returns on capital don't get dumped.


Indeed! Plus we shouldn't forget Aerologic, of which LH owns 50% with DHL the other 50%. They can do everything that LH Cargo does at lower costs and higher airframe utilization due to the DHL flying. In the end this really makes the difference, which is why Aerologic was grown the last few years instead of our own cargo division.
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Newark727
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Re: Lufthansa Cargo considers retiring all MD-11s in 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:43 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Once NW lost the DHL contract it wasn’t worth it anymore, especially as the economy wasn’t exactly booming at that point in time.

Wasn’t the fleet all 742s when they put the axe to it?


It was (not sure when/if it was anything else?) A couple of them lingered with Kalitta for a few more years.
 
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:46 pm

LHA320 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Fifteen dedicated freighters in a carrier with 1,300 mainline and rj aircraft is nothing but a distracting hobby. Business segments that make good returns on capital don't get dumped.


Indeed! Plus we shouldn't forget Aerologic, of which LH owns 50% with DHL the other 50%. They can do everything that LH Cargo does at lower costs and higher airframe utilization due to the DHL flying. In the end this really makes the difference, which is why Aerologic was grown the last few years instead of our own cargo division.


Guess he meant DL? Don’t see anywhere near 1300 A/C in the LH fleet.
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LHA320
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:10 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Fifteen dedicated freighters in a carrier with 1,300 mainline and rj aircraft is nothing but a distracting hobby. Business segments that make good returns on capital don't get dumped.


Indeed! Plus we shouldn't forget Aerologic, of which LH owns 50% with DHL the other 50%. They can do everything that LH Cargo does at lower costs and higher airframe utilization due to the DHL flying. In the end this really makes the difference, which is why Aerologic was grown the last few years instead of our own cargo division.


Guess he meant DL? Don’t see anywhere near 1300 A/C in the LH fleet.


I know. I wanted to quote the last sentence "Business segments that make good returns on capital don't get dumped" and in case of LH Cargo, Business segments that make good returns are not scaled down internally in favor of a joint project with DHL. Before Covid, regular air freight (not belly cargo!) without major contracts with distributors like DHL, FedEx or UPS just wasn't as profitable for major carriers as was the pax business.
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Ishrion
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:28 pm

Lufthansa's CEO says three MD-11s will stay until early summer 2021:

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 2223738880
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dcs921
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:17 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Lufthansa's CEO says three MD-11s will stay until early summer 2021:

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 2223738880


That doesn't add up. He says they will keep 3 and phase out 6 soon. They only have 6 active MD-11s: D-ALCA, D-ALCB, D-ALCC, D-ALCD, D-ALCI, and D-ALCK.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:37 am

dcs921 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Lufthansa's CEO says three MD-11s will stay until early summer 2021:

https://twitter.com/SpaethFlies/status/ ... 2223738880


That doesn't add up. He says they will keep 3 and phase out 6 soon. They only have 6 active MD-11s: D-ALCA, D-ALCB, D-ALCC, D-ALCD, D-ALCI, and D-ALCK.



"Lufthansa Cargo had been planning to phase out its MD-11F fleet this year but put its plans on hold in response to the coronavirus outbreak.

It now plans to phase out its six remaining MD-11 freighters “over the coming months, with the first half to be phased out within this year”."


https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/l ... number-13/
 
na
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:18 am

D-ALCB just left for UPS.

The final LH MD-11-flight depends on the demands of the Corona vaccine transport business. But it has been decided that the last one will be gone before the summer of 2021.
 
5NFGS
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:39 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Fifteen dedicated freighters in a carrier with 1,300 mainline and rj aircraft is nothing but a distracting hobby. Business segments that make good returns on capital don't get dumped.


Indeed! Plus we shouldn't forget Aerologic, of which LH owns 50% with DHL the other 50%. They can do everything that LH Cargo does at lower costs and higher airframe utilization due to the DHL flying. In the end this really makes the difference, which is why Aerologic was grown the last few years instead of our own cargo division.


Guess he meant DL? Don’t see anywhere near 1300 A/C in the LH fleet.


Maybe he meant LH Group
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:28 pm

I have heard that they are being prolonged
https://aircargoworld.com/news/carriers ... argo-boom/

I think 3 will be gone by new years and then they'll finish off the rest by mid-2021
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MIflyer12
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:17 am

5NFGS wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
LHA320 wrote:

Indeed! Plus we shouldn't forget Aerologic, of which LH owns 50% with DHL the other 50%. They can do everything that LH Cargo does at lower costs and higher airframe utilization due to the DHL flying. In the end this really makes the difference, which is why Aerologic was grown the last few years instead of our own cargo division.


Guess he meant DL? Don’t see anywhere near 1300 A/C in the LH fleet.


Maybe he meant LH Group


It was a reference to lightsaber's lamentation of DL dumping NW's dedicated freighters. At the end of 2019, DL + the DL Connection ops had about 1,300 aircraft.
 
dcs921
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Re: Updated: LH Cargo considers prolonging lifespan of MD-11F's

Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:16 am

D-ALCI has been officially retired from Lufthansa. Presumably going to UPS since it was flown to SAT.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/id/GEC8152-1611817589-0-1-115

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