Jetty
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Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:30 am

Federal prosecutors have subpoenaed records from Boeing relating to the production of the 787 Dreamliner in South Carolina, where there have been allegations of shoddy work.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... r-records/

This is not looking good right after publication of outsourcing critical software design to developing countries, too slow processors to handle MCAS 2.0 and the absence of the supposed to be delivered 787-10 at KL’s 100 year festivities. One can only hope that Boeing seriously rethinks their way of doing business.
Last edited by qf789 on Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: flamebait title
 
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enilria
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:35 am

I'm beginning to wonder how far into 2020 the 737MAX flies again. How long is it going to take just to rehab the pickled birds? I wonder if they stored them with the expectation it could be so long. It makes a big difference in terms of how they are stored and how much damage the storage does. The planes are meant to fly, they actually wear more poorly not flying.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:49 am

Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.
 
LDRA
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:51 am

Fed is just fishing for info at this stage
 
LDRA
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:52 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.

Their stock price is doing ok. Therefore it is not that bad
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:59 am

LDRA wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.

Their stock price is doing ok. Therefore it is not that bad


Yup, that's all that matters to companies in the US. As long as their stock & bottom line are doing fine, safety, employee well-being, customer well-being, and sustainability doesn't matter or can go out the window completely.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:03 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.


I was saying this for 20 years. While I have often defended Boeing here, truth is the company has been so poorly managed for the past 22 years, it’s despicable.

I could tell many stories.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:20 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.


I was saying this for 20 years. While I have often defended Boeing here, truth is the company has been so poorly managed for the past 22 years, it’s despicable.

I could tell many stories.


The failure aspect of McDonnell Douglas is really shining through currently.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:28 am

Boeing will never change unless one of the following happens

A. 737 MAX never gets the go ahead to fly again by any regulator
B. Stock price plummets
C. A preferred customer publicly cancels an order and takes their money straight to Europe
D. US government throws them the book with heavy fines and jail time for some employees/executives
 
bgm
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:30 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.


I was saying this for 20 years. While I have often defended Boeing here, truth is the company has been so poorly managed for the past 22 years, it’s despicable.

I could tell many stories.


Why would you defend Boeing if you have 'so many stories' and know about how awful the company is managed? Isn't that being rather dishonest?
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
rigo
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:01 am

Super80Fan wrote:
LDRA wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.

Their stock price is doing ok. Therefore it is not that bad


Yup, that's all that matters to companies in the US. As long as their stock & bottom line are doing fine, safety, employee well-being, customer well-being, and sustainability doesn't matter or can go out the window completely.


Or, in this case, passengers' lives.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:01 am

bgm wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.


I was saying this for 20 years. While I have often defended Boeing here, truth is the company has been so poorly managed for the past 22 years, it’s despicable.

I could tell many stories.


Why would you defend Boeing if you have 'so many stories' and know about how awful the company is managed? Isn't that being rather dishonest?


No it’s not. There has also been an incredible amount of inaccurate and bogus stuff posted here, so I’ve defended Boeing against that. I call a spade a spade.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:03 am

ikolkyo wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.


I was saying this for 20 years. While I have often defended Boeing here, truth is the company has been so poorly managed for the past 22 years, it’s despicable.

I could tell many stories.


The failure aspect of McDonnell Douglas is really shining through currently.


The decline started before the merger. DCAC/MRM and selling off the training department and lying to the press about how it was going predated the McD merger. So did lying about production problems.
 
rigo
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:14 am

Now seriously, this stinks. As far as the MAX is concerned, the theory - I'm sure at least in part justified - has been that in the absolutely worst case scenario, Boeing would have to design a brand new single-aisle much earlier than planned, which would also mean that the ball would suddenly be on Airbus' side again, pulling the carpet from under their superstar A320NEO at a time when they have the A220 to invest in and the A350 production issues to sort out. But now if the 787's reputation ends up being affected as well, that's Boeing's two main products that potentially lie in tatters. Other famous manufacturers ended up bankrupt for less than that.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:29 am

Yes...Boeing has had some pretty piss-poor CEO's in the past...I agree. But as Boeing Guy has said, Boeing folks have pulled off some miraculous stuff at the same time!
 
caljn
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:35 am

The article about the South Carolina facility reads like a GM plant in the '70's.
Ultimately I believe whatever the issue is it is not serious, as Boeing is (rightfully) under a microscope at the moment. And I'm getting on a UA 787-10 this week LAX-EWR again...it is the best transcon ride out there.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:52 am

Unions ordered a hit job by a friendly press on a non-union plant, federal bureaucrats use it as an excuse to harass a company now that the bank shake-down gravy train is slowing down. Simple as that. Boeing should respond to the irresponsible actions of the unions in this case by making sure the NMA is 100% Charleston-built. Clearly Boeing (or any other manufacturer) has no future in the Seattle area, just hand over the keys of the city to Bezos and call it a day.
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Antarius
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:42 am

Super80Fan wrote:
LDRA wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.

Their stock price is doing ok. Therefore it is not that bad


Yup, that's all that matters to companies in the US. As long as their stock & bottom line are doing fine, safety, employee well-being, customer well-being, and sustainability doesn't matter or can go out the window completely.


Hyperbole? The stock price is related to the safety of the end product. It took a hit with the MAX (understandably and rightly so), but is still strong on the overall portfolio of products- if Boeing was producing garbage that fell out of the sky weekly, their stock would crash.

One has to assume the airlines that fly thousands of Boeing planes every day would have major issues if the planes were problematic. Why would IAG order 200 more? Other than isolated incidents al-baker and the AA mechanics making a noise, there isnt this overwhelming anti-Boeing sentiment amongst the tens of thousands of pilots, mechanics, FAs, operations crew, ground staff etc etc. Who are involved with them every day. There is concern and angst relating to the MCAS training and procedures, which is certainly valid, but this will be fixed in the way that historically processes and procedures have evolved and improved after any incident.

Boeing obviously has some issues, the MCAS issue and using a single AoA was part of a profoundly idiotic set of decisions, but I certainly think that there is fear mongering going on as well to attract attention- to a news website, to a cause etc.
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Jouhou
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:47 am

LDRA wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.

Their stock price is doing ok. Therefore it is not that bad


I'm curious if that's going to last beyond their next quarterly report in a few weeks...
 
grbauc
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:11 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.



No optics for the bad job of oversight that occurred during there watch. Just like the airbag crises with the auto industry the Feds will now be zealous in there job of oversight. Just has much pressure that is being put on Boeing should also be happening on the Government for there dropping of the ball also.

The Government agency that oversee's the industry and Boeing deserve the grief they are getting and it will be awhile till they earn back the trust. The Trust in the FAA is tarnished also and I expect them to be over zealous. Lives were lost, I wish the tobacco and alcohol Industry along with the pharmaceutical industry would be put under the same microscope.
 
grbauc
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:23 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.


I was saying this for 20 years. While I have often defended Boeing here, truth is the company has been so poorly managed for the past 22 years, it’s despicable.

I could tell many stories.



I don't doubt that there is some validity to your thoughts but there is a long history of safety that has only gotten better and better. Many a businesses have lost some of the Plot in there march to profits IMOP.
 
UA444
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:33 am

Pyrex wrote:
Unions ordered a hit job by a friendly press on a non-union plant, federal bureaucrats use it as an excuse to harass a company now that the bank shake-down gravy train is slowing down. Simple as that. Boeing should respond to the irresponsible actions of the unions in this case by making sure the NMA is 100% Charleston-built. Clearly Boeing (or any other manufacturer) has no future in the Seattle area, just hand over the keys of the city to Bezos and call it a day.

You nailed it. Take into account we are entering an election cycle and you have a perfect recipe for garbage.
 
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Elshad
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:31 am

All senior Boeing executives should be arrested until we figure out what the hell is going on.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:55 am

Elshad wrote:
All senior Boeing executives should be arrested until we figure out what the hell is going on.


So arrest 30 people and then hold them until they can figure out what/if they can charge them with some crime??? Makes perfect sense to me.

LDRA wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.

Their stock price is doing ok. Therefore it is not that bad


Not for long. Their high stock price is on borrowed time once the financials start dragging it down due to lawsuits from airlines for groundings, re-training, retrofitting, and loss of business...not to mention the amount that will be paid out in fines, settlements and lawyer fees from the crashes. By early 2020 the price of their stock will be cut in half.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:31 am

UA444 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Unions ordered a hit job by a friendly press on a non-union plant, federal bureaucrats use it as an excuse to harass a company now that the bank shake-down gravy train is slowing down. Simple as that. Boeing should respond to the irresponsible actions of the unions in this case by making sure the NMA is 100% Charleston-built. Clearly Boeing (or any other manufacturer) has no future in the Seattle area, just hand over the keys of the city to Bezos and call it a day.

You nailed it. Take into account we are entering an election cycle and you have a perfect recipe for garbage.

Uhh...why would this admin's DOJ be part of a hit job on South Carolina to the benefit of unions and Washington State?
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Dutchy
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:51 am

How much more van Boeing take. It will survive, sure, lots of government contracts will ensure that. The stockholders can't be too happy about this. Like I said before, the CEO should take his responsibility and resign, it is part of his job to do this.
Let the next guy clean up this mess so the company can move forward again and make great planes again with no issues.
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max999
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:05 am

Pyrex wrote:
Unions ordered a hit job by a friendly press on a non-union plant, federal bureaucrats use it as an excuse to harass a company now that the bank shake-down gravy train is slowing down. Simple as that. Boeing should respond to the irresponsible actions of the unions in this case by making sure the NMA is 100% Charleston-built. Clearly Boeing (or any other manufacturer) has no future in the Seattle area, just hand over the keys of the city to Bezos and call it a day.


Provide proof of what you're writing or else this post sounds like a conspiracy theory rant.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:41 am

You can find these kind of things at all super large companies. It's just Boeing is under the microscoperight now
 
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Revelation
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:57 am

smokeybandit wrote:
You can find these kind of things at all super large companies. It's just Boeing is under the microscoperight now

Indeed.

Complaining employees? OMG!

Outsourcing? OMG!

Stuff that happens at every big company every day.

Lots of outrage being vented, it's just Boeing's turn to be the target.
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MoKa777
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:05 am

Aceskywalker wrote:
Boeing will never change unless one of the following happens

A. 737 MAX never gets the go ahead to fly again by any regulator
B. Stock price plummets
C. A preferred customer publicly cancels an order and takes their money straight to Europe
D. US government throws them the book with heavy fines and jail time for some employees/executives


This ^

100% in my opinion
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:13 am

Revelation wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:
You can find these kind of things at all super large companies. It's just Boeing is under the microscoperight now

Indeed.

Complaining employees? OMG!

Outsourcing? OMG!

Stuff that happens at every big company every day.

Lots of outrage being vented, it's just Boeing's turn to be the target.


I agree that these kinds of things happen at other large corporations as well but the thing with Boeing is slightly different.

1. Safety is of the greatest importance in aviation.
2. Boeing seems to have become too comfortable and, dare I say it, complacent in the duopoly in which they find themselves. It is showing in scary ways.

Boeing is not a bad company. I will be 100% comfortable boarding their aircraft but responsibilitu needs to be taken for certain missteps and some adjustments need to be made. It should not be seen as the end of Boeing but rather the beginning of a new, focused, more responsible Boeing that will continue with their remarkable feats of engineering.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:32 am

MoKa777 wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
Boeing will never change unless one of the following happens

A. 737 MAX never gets the go ahead to fly again by any regulator
B. Stock price plummets
C. A preferred customer publicly cancels an order and takes their money straight to Europe
D. US government throws them the book with heavy fines and jail time for some employees/executives


This ^

100% in my opinion

Yet the odds of these happening are tiny.

The most likely one to happen was (C), but in fact the opposite of (C) just happened when BA signed a LOI for 200 737 at Paris.

People are so wrapped up in venting their outrage that they don't see how meaningless such venting is.

In fact venting outrage is one mechanism to cope with the fact that average people have no power.

People don't seem capable of understanding the inertia that the status quo has.

It would take an event of the scale of the 2008 GFC to have an impact on such inertia, and even in that case all that happened was the system trimmed away a few entities that had pushed the greed envelope out a bit too far, a few things got reorganized under bankruptcy court, and then inertia took over again.

The idea that Boeing would be laid low to any significant degree seems unrealistic to me.

As I've written chances are good the current CEO and a few executives get kicked to the curb once the plane is back in the air again, but they will be given golden parachutes and a new bunch of fat cats in waiting will replace them and life will go on.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
JamesCousins
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:46 am

This is getting very messy for Boeing quickly, from this to the 737 MAX delays and new findings that require further changes past MCAS, alongside the inevitable resurfacing in the media of CHS issues this will create - compound that with potential union pressure throughout and one too many cards may fall. There's no denying these issues are of Boeing's creation but it creates an industry wide uncertainty not seen for a long time
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bergkampsticket
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:52 am

Pyrex wrote:
Unions ordered a hit job by a friendly press on a non-union plant, federal bureaucrats use it as an excuse to harass a company now that the bank shake-down gravy train is slowing down. Simple as that. Boeing should respond to the irresponsible actions of the unions in this case by making sure the NMA is 100% Charleston-built. Clearly Boeing (or any other manufacturer) has no future in the Seattle area, just hand over the keys of the city to Bezos and call it a day.

You're painting Boeing as the victims here and blaming unions? Honestly some stuff written on here is laughable.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:57 am

To me, Boeing is like GM, the biggest banks and financial institutions is TBTF - Too Big to Fail. It is one of the USA biggest private employers of well paid workers, its products are the biggest exports of the USA, they are one of the biggest military equipment suppliers. From the President on down to local politicians, they will do what it takes to keep Boeing in business including working out something to return the 737MAX to the skies, fix the labor issues at CHS factory and on the 767 based tankers QC issues. There needs to be public hearings by the appropriate committees of the US Congress, putting Boeing executives in the hot seat to discuss Boeing's problems and figure out ways to deal with them.
Perhaps one critical area is to tie executive compensation to quality of product, not stock price. Make a massive cut in their salaries and other compensation to recognize their failures. Consider bringing in a new CEO team that will put safety and quality first instead of short-term profits, encourage labor to have pride in their work, limit outsourcing of major component manufacturing and software work. Boeing also needs to start immediately and quickly develop the 737 replacement.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:59 am

Revelation wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
Boeing will never change unless one of the following happens

A. 737 MAX never gets the go ahead to fly again by any regulator
B. Stock price plummets
C. A preferred customer publicly cancels an order and takes their money straight to Europe
D. US government throws them the book with heavy fines and jail time for some employees/executives


This ^

100% in my opinion

Yet the odds of these happening are tiny.

The most likely one to happen was (C), but in fact the opposite of (C) just happened when BA signed a LOI for 200 737 at Paris.

People are so wrapped up in venting their outrage that they don't see how meaningless such venting is.

In fact venting outrage is one mechanism to cope with the fact that average people have no power.

People don't seem capable of understanding the inertia that the status quo has.

It would take an event of the scale of the 2008 GFC to have an impact on such inertia, and even in that case all that happened was the system trimmed away a few entities that had pushed the greed envelope out a bit too far, a few things got reorganized under bankruptcy court, and then inertia took over again.

The idea that Boeing would be laid low to any significant degree seems unrealistic to me.

As I've written chances are good the current CEO and a few executives get kicked to the curb once the plane is back in the air again, but they will be given golden parachutes and a new bunch of fat cats in waiting will replace them and life will go on.


Given the deal that BA appears to have received for the 737MAX, it seemed more likely that Boeing knew it needed a good news story to try and turn the tide of constant negativity.

At the end of the day though, given the importance of Boeing to the US, there’s no way it will fail. If the delays for the 737MAX go on for a significant amount of time though, the bills will be piling up producing, maintaining and paying penalties to operators of those airframes without the cash coming in. That won’t be an easy thing to manage.

The 787 stories are more curveballs, but who knows what will come from that.
 
lhrnue
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:09 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
D. US government throws them the book with heavy fines and jail time for some employees/executives


If it goes all t_ts up for Boeing the US government will bail them out, as the literally can't afford Boeing to go bankrupt.
 
musman9853
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:20 pm

Elshad wrote:
All senior Boeing executives should be arrested until we figure out what the hell is going on.


they don't work for tupolev
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IADCA
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Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:56 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Unions ordered a hit job by a friendly press on a non-union plant, federal bureaucrats use it as an excuse to harass a company now that the bank shake-down gravy train is slowing down. Simple as that. Boeing should respond to the irresponsible actions of the unions in this case by making sure the NMA is 100% Charleston-built. Clearly Boeing (or any other manufacturer) has no future in the Seattle area, just hand over the keys of the city to Bezos and call it a day.

You nailed it. Take into account we are entering an election cycle and you have a perfect recipe for garbage.

Uhh...why would this admin's DOJ be part of a hit job on South Carolina to the benefit of unions and Washington State?


And why would this be growing out of a probe that has already seen a pile of subpoenas land in Chicago and Washington State if it's about being anti-union? It seems like we've seen one of that poster's trademark fact-free fanciful rants.
 
LDRA
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:01 am

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:01 pm

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Elshad wrote:

Not for long. Their high stock price is on borrowed time once the financials start dragging it down due to lawsuits from airlines for groundings, re-training, retrofitting, and loss of business...not to mention the amount that will be paid out in fines, settlements and lawyer fees from the crashes. By early 2020 the price of their stock will be cut in half.


That should already be priced into stock.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3439
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:36 pm

Some good points here but mostly just BS regarding how this will play out in the end. As far as the past history of Boeing flight training, I would respectfully disagree. Boeing and Flight Safety broke up around 2000 or so with restrictions on which company could cort the individual segments of the aviation industry. After that the new Alteon came about at Boeing and it has been somewhat down hill ever since. I think had both organizations put their heads together they could have created a training juggernaut that would be the best flight training in the world today. As it stands now, Boeing does little flight training at all, with the bulk of their business renting out sim time to customers without the benefit of actual training. They still create the FCTM and FCOM for the respective fleets, and that is always the foundation document for the end users. The lack of MCAS data in the FCOM and FCTM will bite them badly as this unfolds in the courts.

Interestingly, Boeing can't even capture training for the KC46, or P8 as other training organizations like CAE and Flight Safety pick up these multi million dollar contracts that Boeing simply can't compete with as they are so incompetent. It's not that the teaching cadre is inept, but the department manager and Senior Leadership Teams are very and lack long term goals. I think its fair to say Boeing would prefer, all things being equall, to not be in the flight training business. Rather tragic. Outside of Asia, Boeing is simply a non player.

Rant over...
 
acjbbj
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:08 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
Revelation wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:

This ^

100% in my opinion

Yet the odds of these happening are tiny.

The most likely one to happen was (C), but in fact the opposite of (C) just happened when BA signed a LOI for 200 737 at Paris.

People are so wrapped up in venting their outrage that they don't see how meaningless such venting is.

In fact venting outrage is one mechanism to cope with the fact that average people have no power.

People don't seem capable of understanding the inertia that the status quo has.

It would take an event of the scale of the 2008 GFC to have an impact on such inertia, and even in that case all that happened was the system trimmed away a few entities that had pushed the greed envelope out a bit too far, a few things got reorganized under bankruptcy court, and then inertia took over again.

The idea that Boeing would be laid low to any significant degree seems unrealistic to me.

As I've written chances are good the current CEO and a few executives get kicked to the curb once the plane is back in the air again, but they will be given golden parachutes and a new bunch of fat cats in waiting will replace them and life will go on.


Given the deal that BA appears to have received for the 737MAX, it seemed more likely that Boeing knew it needed a good news story to try and turn the tide of constant negativity.

At the end of the day though, given the importance of Boeing to the US, there’s no way it will fail. If the delays for the 737MAX go on for a significant amount of time though, the bills will be piling up producing, maintaining and paying penalties to operators of those airframes without the cash coming in. That won’t be an easy thing to manage.

The 787 stories are more curveballs, but who knows what will come from that.

ltbewr wrote:
To me, Boeing is like GM, the biggest banks and financial institutions is TBTF - Too Big to Fail. It is one of the USA biggest private employers of well paid workers, its products are the biggest exports of the USA, they are one of the biggest military equipment suppliers. From the President on down to local politicians, they will do what it takes to keep Boeing in business including working out something to return the 737MAX to the skies, fix the labor issues at CHS factory and on the 767 based tankers QC issues. There needs to be public hearings by the appropriate committees of the US Congress, putting Boeing executives in the hot seat to discuss Boeing's problems and figure out ways to deal with them.
Perhaps one critical area is to tie executive compensation to quality of product, not stock price. Make a massive cut in their salaries and other compensation to recognize their failures. Consider bringing in a new CEO team that will put safety and quality first instead of short-term profits, encourage labor to have pride in their work, limit outsourcing of major component manufacturing and software work. Boeing also needs to start immediately and quickly develop the 737 replacement.

There is NO such thing as "too big to fail."
Douglas Aircraft Company
Born: 22 July 1921 (Santa Monica, CA)
Died: 23 May 2006 (Long Beach, CA), age 84 years 10 months 1 day
You will be missed.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Siteuror

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:38 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
LDRA wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Boeing is a company in crisis. I hate to say it but their survival as a leading commercial aircraft manufacturer is in jeopardy. The drip drip of bad news is killing them.

Their stock price is doing ok. Therefore it is not that bad


Yup, that's all that matters to companies in the US. As long as their stock & bottom line are doing fine, safety, employee well-being, customer well-being, and sustainability doesn't matter or can go out the window completely.


False. For example, if their customers aren't doing well, they won't make sales to them, less future revenue would reflect in lower stock price today. Where is there any indication sustainability does not matter? Reality is there are mistakes, but Boeing is a massive company with diversified revenue. But your response makes a better headline.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20961
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:03 pm

JamesCousins wrote:
This is getting very messy for Boeing quickly, from this to the 737 MAX delays and new findings that require further changes past MCAS, alongside the inevitable resurfacing in the media of CHS issues this will create - compound that with potential union pressure throughout and one too many cards may fall. There's no denying these issues are of Boeing's creation but it creates an industry wide uncertainty not seen for a long time

This is what people in the C Suite get paid to fix, and if they can't, they get fired and the next fat cat in waiting gets slotted in, and the Board can say they've drawn a line under all the messes.

ltbewr wrote:
To me, Boeing is like GM, the biggest banks and financial institutions is TBTF - Too Big to Fail. It is one of the USA biggest private employers of well paid workers, its products are the biggest exports of the USA, they are one of the biggest military equipment suppliers. From the President on down to local politicians, they will do what it takes to keep Boeing in business including working out something to return the 737MAX to the skies, fix the labor issues at CHS factory and on the 767 based tankers QC issues. There needs to be public hearings by the appropriate committees of the US Congress, putting Boeing executives in the hot seat to discuss Boeing's problems and figure out ways to deal with them.
Perhaps one critical area is to tie executive compensation to quality of product, not stock price. Make a massive cut in their salaries and other compensation to recognize their failures. Consider bringing in a new CEO team that will put safety and quality first instead of short-term profits, encourage labor to have pride in their work, limit outsourcing of major component manufacturing and software work. Boeing also needs to start immediately and quickly develop the 737 replacement.

You are putting a sharper edge on things than I would, but yes, if push should come to shove, Boeing is TBTF.

IndianicWorld wrote:
Given the deal that BA appears to have received for the 737MAX, it seemed more likely that Boeing knew it needed a good news story to try and turn the tide of constant negativity.

At the end of the day though, given the importance of Boeing to the US, there’s no way it will fail. If the delays for the 737MAX go on for a significant amount of time though, the bills will be piling up producing, maintaining and paying penalties to operators of those airframes without the cash coming in. That won’t be an easy thing to manage.

The 787 stories are more curveballs, but who knows what will come from that.

Yes, Boeing clearly did what it took to make it happen, but you have to admit IAG's LOI for 200 737s was the shocker of PAS and the most shocking thing was that IAG would go along with it at this point in time.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
sas931
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:55 pm

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:35 pm

The headline were about the 787, but most of this ended up, and rightfully so, about the B737-MAX...But what about the USAF B767 tankers...The USAF inspectors have found a lot of FOD onboard, so many that they wouldnt accept any more aircrafts...Has this feature been fixed ?
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1375
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:01 pm

Elshad wrote:
All senior Boeing executives should be arrested until we figure out what the hell is going on.

Great advice if you don't believe in due process. Why don't we beat the shit out of them too for good measure? Rich bastards could use a kicking!
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1375
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:03 pm

acjbbj wrote:
There is NO such thing as "too big to fail."

If only.
 
Aceskywalker
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:43 pm

Elshad wrote:
All senior Boeing executives should be arrested until we figure out what the hell is going on.


Thankfully you don't run the US cause that is not how any democratic society should function. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by trial with a jury of peers.


Also, to quote progressives - too big to fail is too big. Commercial aviation is a virtual duopoly with other companies like Bombardier, Mitsubishi, Embraer fighting for the few segments that neither A or B bother going after. General aviation has much healthier competition with multiple companies spanning the different segments from kit planes to multimillion dollar biz jets.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 1273
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to Alleged Shoddy 787 Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:01 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Unions ordered a hit job by a friendly press on a non-union plant, federal bureaucrats use it as an excuse to harass a company now that the bank shake-down gravy train is slowing down. Simple as that. Boeing should respond to the irresponsible actions of the unions in this case by making sure the NMA is 100% Charleston-built. Clearly Boeing (or any other manufacturer) has no future in the Seattle area, just hand over the keys of the city to Bezos and call it a day.


You nailed it. The pro-union Boeing employees and press were after Charleston before the first employee was even hired.
 
Newark727
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Federal Prosecutors Expanding Boeing Investigation to CHS 787 Production Site

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:01 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
Elshad wrote:
All senior Boeing executives should be arrested until we figure out what the hell is going on.


Thankfully you don't run the US cause that is not how any democratic society should function. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by trial with a jury of peers.


Bricktop wrote:
Great advice if you don't believe in due process. Why don't we beat the shit out of them too for good measure? Rich bastards could use a kicking!


Yeah, look at where the last guy who promised radical, probably illegal policies "until we figure out what the hell is going on" ended up. Exact words... ;)

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