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SeaEagle8
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:59 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:45 am

Good news for BNE as they have been fairly light on flights to China. These will help offset the loss of PEK flights on CA.

Meanwhile CZ will bring the A380 back to SYD this summer on one of its three daily flights to CAN.
NSW based avgeek
 
Boof
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:03 am

TasFlyer wrote:
This is loaded in the JQ schedules.

You must be looking at the wrong schedules because JQ's HBA-SYD has been four daily with a fifth on selected days (Wednesday and Saturday last year) for a number of years now during summer.


Thanks for this info TasFlyer. I think we are on the same page but I wrote summer being NS, our winter in other words... I hate the whole Northern Summer and Winter nonsense. I get why it is done that way but drives me insane! Anyway thanks for sharing your findings.

In other HBA news the push back project is happening this coming week. Tomorrow will be the first day of power in and pushback ops at HBA with two gates. By Thursday all 7 gates will be operational, an increase of 2 gates.
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
budgetflyer
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 8:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:38 pm

Boof wrote:

In other HBA news the push back project is happening this coming week. Tomorrow will be the first day of power in and pushback ops at HBA with two gates. By Thursday all 7 gates will be operational, an increase of 2 gates.


Did not know this was starting so soon - I flew into HBA earlier today and would have made a point of looking for the updated tarmac markings on my way off the plane had I known.

Will the increase in available parking bays be reflected in changes to the gate numbering system in the terminal, or remain the same? HBA currently has gates 1 (arrivals, near the baggage carousels), 2 through to 5 (in pairs, used for departures) and 6 (arrivals and departures) - I assume that aircraft using the new layout will continue to board and disembark via the existing gates, at least until the terminal expansion commences next year?
 
Boof
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:37 pm

budgetflyer wrote:
Boof wrote:

In other HBA news the push back project is happening this coming week. Tomorrow will be the first day of power in and pushback ops at HBA with two gates. By Thursday all 7 gates will be operational, an increase of 2 gates.


Did not know this was starting so soon - I flew into HBA earlier today and would have made a point of looking for the updated tarmac markings on my way off the plane had I known.

Will the increase in available parking bays be reflected in changes to the gate numbering system in the terminal, or remain the same? HBA currently has gates 1 (arrivals, near the baggage carousels), 2 through to 5 (in pairs, used for departures) and 6 (arrivals and departures) - I assume that aircraft using the new layout will continue to board and disembark via the existing gates, at least until the terminal expansion commences next year?


There wouldn’t have been anything different on the tarmac yesterday. They are painting the new bays in stages overnight with last night being the first night. There are two bays outside Gate 6 available today, two further tomorrow, and the final three for 7 total from Wednesday (subject to weather). Details are in an AIP SUP.

As for the gates I assume that is all staying as is until the terminal is changed by the looks of it. I can’t see any mention of changes anywhere but I could be wrong.
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
ben175
Posts: 720
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:47 pm

Anyone have any idea what happened to MUs trial of PER-PVG flights? Thought they were due to start in September but nothing has eventuated.
 
aerohottie
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:00 am

Ishrion wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Where QF is concerned passengers flying to SFO are going to SFO and not beyond, sure there would be some connections however it wouldn't be like LAX or DFW. The argument of a lost day is well debatable, departing earlier from MEL means you loose a day here so whether its a early or late departure both have their advantages and disadvantages.


That's also true, you get the full day in Melbourne for working or whatever, which you lose if you fly with UA, so either way you will 'gain' a day either in MEL or SFO and 'lose' a day either at SFO or MEL.

qf789 wrote:
Maybe we wont hear any announcements until next month, perhaps where QF is concerned it could be announced at their group results for 18/19.


I think QF would want its own announcements at the 18/19 results, not to have AA stealing its thunder or being crowded out by other big QF announcements such as the next 787 routes for example. AA will probably do its own press release soon enough and not 'compete' with QF for coverage.

Has AA in the past given any indications of what its new AU-US routes might be? I wonder if MEL-DFW might be one of them.


AA's routes are rumoured to be DFW-AKL and LAX-MEL initially.

I've heard those rumours too, but I'm not so sure. What does an additional DFW flight add to the combined network that isn't already effectively offered by the other DFW flights? (other than NZ of course)
I think LAX-AKL would have to go daily year-round before an additional flight was added to AKL.
However, if an additional flight was added, how about AKL-ORD or AKL-CLT or even AKL-MIA
What?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:19 am

aerohottie wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:

That's also true, you get the full day in Melbourne for working or whatever, which you lose if you fly with UA, so either way you will 'gain' a day either in MEL or SFO and 'lose' a day either at SFO or MEL.



I think QF would want its own announcements at the 18/19 results, not to have AA stealing its thunder or being crowded out by other big QF announcements such as the next 787 routes for example. AA will probably do its own press release soon enough and not 'compete' with QF for coverage.

Has AA in the past given any indications of what its new AU-US routes might be? I wonder if MEL-DFW might be one of them.


AA's routes are rumoured to be DFW-AKL and LAX-MEL initially.

I've heard those rumours too, but I'm not so sure. What does an additional DFW flight add to the combined network that isn't already effectively offered by the other DFW flights? (other than NZ of course)
I think LAX-AKL would have to go daily year-round before an additional flight was added to AKL.
However, if an additional flight was added, how about AKL-ORD or AKL-CLT or even AKL-MIA


AA would feed off of its massive amount of connections at DFW. In a way, they're catching traffic and sort of attacking NZ at IAH.

DFW has been offering incentives for a few years now for an airline to launch AKL. Cities like Rome, Munich, and Dublin were on a list of cities DFW wants along with AKL. Wouldn't be surprised if this comes next.

CLT/MIA-AKL... is interesting... Do AA's aircraft have the range for that?
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1647
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:37 am

Re DFW-AKL - has the NZ Competition Commission given QF/AA approval to work together? If not, DFW-AKL is an AA thing only (with standard QF codeshares/interlines).
 
smi0006
Posts: 2229
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:48 am

qf2220 wrote:
Re DFW-AKL - has the NZ Competition Commission given QF/AA approval to work together? If not, DFW-AKL is an AA thing only (with standard QF codeshares/interlines).


I believe so, the QF/AA JV covers NZ,AU, Canada, Mexico and US mainland but oddly not Hawaii or Pacific territories.

Interesting space I think for NZ,UA, who don’t include AU. Perhaps this will be included in the future, maybe also linking in AC?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6879
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:08 am

aerohottie wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:

That's also true, you get the full day in Melbourne for working or whatever, which you lose if you fly with UA, so either way you will 'gain' a day either in MEL or SFO and 'lose' a day either at SFO or MEL.



I think QF would want its own announcements at the 18/19 results, not to have AA stealing its thunder or being crowded out by other big QF announcements such as the next 787 routes for example. AA will probably do its own press release soon enough and not 'compete' with QF for coverage.

Has AA in the past given any indications of what its new AU-US routes might be? I wonder if MEL-DFW might be one of them.


AA's routes are rumoured to be DFW-AKL and LAX-MEL initially.

I've heard those rumours too, but I'm not so sure. What does an additional DFW flight add to the combined network that isn't already effectively offered by the other DFW flights? (other than NZ of course)
I think LAX-AKL would have to go daily year-round before an additional flight was added to AKL.
However, if an additional flight was added, how about AKL-ORD or AKL-CLT or even AKL-MIA


There is 1 DFW-SYD flight, it’s building the main hubs first surely, LAX/SFO/DFW while adding ORD and maybe SEA later.

SYD-DFW could well go to a 789 with an AA AKL-DFW 789 added. I agree it would seem to make sense to make AKL-LAX year round first.

I’m not sure any AA aircraft could fly AKL-ORD/CLT/MIA and they wouldn’t offer the same connections DFW would.
 
TasFlyer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:38 am

Boof wrote:
budgetflyer wrote:
Boof wrote:

In other HBA news the push back project is happening this coming week. Tomorrow will be the first day of power in and pushback ops at HBA with two gates. By Thursday all 7 gates will be operational, an increase of 2 gates.


Did not know this was starting so soon - I flew into HBA earlier today and would have made a point of looking for the updated tarmac markings on my way off the plane had I known.

Will the increase in available parking bays be reflected in changes to the gate numbering system in the terminal, or remain the same? HBA currently has gates 1 (arrivals, near the baggage carousels), 2 through to 5 (in pairs, used for departures) and 6 (arrivals and departures) - I assume that aircraft using the new layout will continue to board and disembark via the existing gates, at least until the terminal expansion commences next year?


There wouldn’t have been anything different on the tarmac yesterday. They are painting the new bays in stages overnight with last night being the first night. There are two bays outside Gate 6 available today, two further tomorrow, and the final three for 7 total from Wednesday (subject to weather). Details are in an AIP SUP.

As for the gates I assume that is all staying as is until the terminal is changed by the looks of it. I can’t see any mention of changes anywhere but I could be wrong.


Yep, still only three gates for the seven bays. So instead of jets having to wait on the taxiway and passengers waiting in the terminal to board, the jets can wait on the bay while passengers wait in the terminal to board!

The first scheduled day of six jets cold-starting is Saturday, September 28; VA is operating an extra MEL
departure at 7:00am.
 
TasFlyer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:44 am

Boof wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:
This is loaded in the JQ schedules.

You must be looking at the wrong schedules because JQ's HBA-SYD has been four daily with a fifth on selected days (Wednesday and Saturday last year) for a number of years now during summer.


Thanks for this info TasFlyer. I think we are on the same page but I wrote summer being NS, our winter in other words... I hate the whole Northern Summer and Winter nonsense. I get why it is done that way but drives me insane! Anyway thanks for sharing your findings.


I couldn't agree more; I have mixed up NS/NW countless times when writing posts!

With the shift from March 2020 to a MEL based aircraft for the HBA-ADL sector, I wonder if JQ will launch ADL-LST using the aircraft that formerly operated ADL-HBA? That would make four weekly ADL-HBA and three weekly ADL-LST, but both flights would operate Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday with the fourth HBA flight on Monday.
 
budgetflyer
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 8:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:17 am

Boof wrote:

There wouldn’t have been anything different on the tarmac yesterday. They are painting the new bays in stages overnight with last night being the first night. There are two bays outside Gate 6 available today, two further tomorrow, and the final three for 7 total from Wednesday (subject to weather). Details are in an AIP SUP.



Thanks, will be sure to check that one out.

TasFlyer wrote:

With the shift from March 2020 to a MEL based aircraft for the HBA-ADL sector, I wonder if JQ will launch ADL-LST using the aircraft that formerly operated ADL-HBA? That would make four weekly ADL-HBA and three weekly ADL-LST, but both flights would operate Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday with the fourth HBA flight on Monday.


Personally I would rather see JQ grow HBA-ADL to a daily service (at least over the summer months) first before attempting LST-ADL flights - HBA has a much stronger catchment area to work from, not to mention a better mix of tourism, VFR and business traffic to sustain a route like TAS-ADL, and I think having a daily flight with a consistent schedule would allow JQ to capture some higher-yielding traffic on this route as the only carrier with non-stop services. LST-ADL flights would not be totally unprecedented though - if I recall correctly, Qantaslink ran one or two weekly flights on the route around 2001/2002 for a short time. Having a carrier like JQ on the route could really stimulate the market and boost tourism to Northern Tas.

It is a shame that we don't have an airline that competes more aggressively for point-to-point traffic as there are many routes like LST-ADL that have potential, yet remain unserved by the major four carriers. It would be nice to see a Ryanair / AirAsia style airline here one day, one with a lower cost base and a network that connects our secondary airports better. The closest thing we have had is the old Virgin Blue - innovative, fresh and not afraid of creating new markets - I am thinking of routes such as MEL-MKY, HBA-CBR and TSV-OOL, routes which we are unlikely to see any of our existing airlines re-enter anytime soon.
 
aryonoco
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 1:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:21 am

aerohottie wrote:
However, if an additional flight was added, how about AKL-ORD or AKL-CLT or even AKL-MIA


AKL-MIA would certainly be unique and would be very interesting. Would open up a huge number of options in Latin America. Also flying to MIA is something that QF can probably never do nonstop from Australia.

But, AKL-MIA is nearly 7,000nm. Can AA's 789s do that reliably?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6879
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:42 am

aryonoco wrote:
aerohottie wrote:
However, if an additional flight was added, how about AKL-ORD or AKL-CLT or even AKL-MIA


AKL-MIA would certainly be unique and would be very interesting. Would open up a huge number of options in Latin America. Also flying to MIA is something that QF can probably never do nonstop from Australia.

But, AKL-MIA is nearly 7,000nm. Can AA's 789s do that reliably?


AKl-MIA is slightly shorter than AKL-ORD, was Latin America part of the JV? AA have quite dense 789s 285 seats vs NZ code 2 with 275 they send to ORD, seems doable.
 
TasFlyer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:21 am

budgetflyer wrote:
Boof wrote:

There wouldn’t have been anything different on the tarmac yesterday. They are painting the new bays in stages overnight with last night being the first night. There are two bays outside Gate 6 available today, two further tomorrow, and the final three for 7 total from Wednesday (subject to weather). Details are in an AIP SUP.



Thanks, will be sure to check that one out.

TasFlyer wrote:

With the shift from March 2020 to a MEL based aircraft for the HBA-ADL sector, I wonder if JQ will launch ADL-LST using the aircraft that formerly operated ADL-HBA? That would make four weekly ADL-HBA and three weekly ADL-LST, but both flights would operate Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday with the fourth HBA flight on Monday.


Personally I would rather see JQ grow HBA-ADL to a daily service (at least over the summer months) first before attempting LST-ADL flights - HBA has a much stronger catchment area to work from, not to mention a better mix of tourism, VFR and business traffic to sustain a route like TAS-ADL, and I think having a daily flight with a consistent schedule would allow JQ to capture some higher-yielding traffic on this route as the only carrier with non-stop services. LST-ADL flights would not be totally unprecedented though - if I recall correctly, Qantaslink ran one or two weekly flights on the route around 2001/2002 for a short time. Having a carrier like JQ on the route could really stimulate the market and boost tourism to Northern Tas.

It is a shame that we don't have an airline that competes more aggressively for point-to-point traffic as there are many routes like LST-ADL that have potential, yet remain unserved by the major four carriers. It would be nice to see a Ryanair / AirAsia style airline here one day, one with a lower cost base and a network that connects our secondary airports better. The closest thing we have had is the old Virgin Blue - innovative, fresh and not afraid of creating new markets - I am thinking of routes such as MEL-MKY, HBA-CBR and TSV-OOL, routes which we are unlikely to see any of our existing airlines re-enter anytime soon.


Yes, daily ADL-HBA would be better; one solid route rather than two marginal ones, and easier to drop a frequency over winter if needed.

The LST-ADL to which you refer was operated by Southern in a BAE 146-200, and used to cycle the jet through the ADL base.
 
747m8te
Posts: 428
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:46 am

TasFlyer wrote:
budgetflyer wrote:
Boof wrote:

There wouldn’t have been anything different on the tarmac yesterday. They are painting the new bays in stages overnight with last night being the first night. There are two bays outside Gate 6 available today, two further tomorrow, and the final three for 7 total from Wednesday (subject to weather). Details are in an AIP SUP.



Thanks, will be sure to check that one out.

TasFlyer wrote:

With the shift from March 2020 to a MEL based aircraft for the HBA-ADL sector, I wonder if JQ will launch ADL-LST using the aircraft that formerly operated ADL-HBA? That would make four weekly ADL-HBA and three weekly ADL-LST, but both flights would operate Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday with the fourth HBA flight on Monday.


Personally I would rather see JQ grow HBA-ADL to a daily service (at least over the summer months) first before attempting LST-ADL flights - HBA has a much stronger catchment area to work from, not to mention a better mix of tourism, VFR and business traffic to sustain a route like TAS-ADL, and I think having a daily flight with a consistent schedule would allow JQ to capture some higher-yielding traffic on this route as the only carrier with non-stop services. LST-ADL flights would not be totally unprecedented though - if I recall correctly, Qantaslink ran one or two weekly flights on the route around 2001/2002 for a short time. Having a carrier like JQ on the route could really stimulate the market and boost tourism to Northern Tas.

It is a shame that we don't have an airline that competes more aggressively for point-to-point traffic as there are many routes like LST-ADL that have potential, yet remain unserved by the major four carriers. It would be nice to see a Ryanair / AirAsia style airline here one day, one with a lower cost base and a network that connects our secondary airports better. The closest thing we have had is the old Virgin Blue - innovative, fresh and not afraid of creating new markets - I am thinking of routes such as MEL-MKY, HBA-CBR and TSV-OOL, routes which we are unlikely to see any of our existing airlines re-enter anytime soon.


Yes, daily ADL-HBA would be better; one solid route rather than two marginal ones, and easier to drop a frequency over winter if needed.

The LST-ADL to which you refer was operated by Southern in a BAE 146-200, and used to cycle the jet through the ADL base.


Speaking of LST, I have often wondered how well Qantaslink would do if they did a LST-SYD with the Q400s 2x daily to serve SYD direct and capture international connections ex SYD.

And to that note even have Qantaslink fly Q400s on flights from both HBA/LST to ADL.
Flown on:
DHC8Q200,DHC8Q300,DHC8Q400, EMB145,E170,E175,E190, A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A380, MD80, B712,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763,B77W
 
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vhqpa
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:10 am

For some reason inbound flights to South East Queensland from the south are taking a non standard routings avoiding the area between Ballina/Byron Bay and Coffs Harbour. Taking them further west than usual.

SYD-BNE traffic is routing BANDA DCT VEGAH DCT GAMBL DCT CG instead of taking the H185 airway.

SYD-OOL traffic is routing BANDA DCT VEGAH DCT GAMBL DCT ROONY instead of taking the Y43 airway.

MEL-BNE traffic is routing MUDGI DCT RACHL DCT SUKTU Y19 PARRY Y195 GLENN putting on the same arrivals path as ADL/PER inbound traffic, rather than taking the H66 airway onto the BLAKA STAR.

CBR-BNE appears to be normal with aircraft taking H66 onto the BLAKA STAR.

All departures to the south are taking the usual routings but they are further west than the northbound airways anyway.

Weather appears to be good at both BNK and CFS and I can't think of a reason for the airspace to be closed in that area.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:13 am

Newcastle Airport have posted on FB that there will be a ' very special announcement ' tomorrow.

Any guesses?
 
787Jet
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:16 am

NTLDaz wrote:
Newcastle Airport have posted on FB that there will be a ' very special announcement ' tomorrow.

Any guesses?


VA NTL-AKL returning?
 
soyuz
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:35 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:17 am

vhqpa wrote:
For some reason inbound flights to South East Queensland from the south are taking a non standard routings avoiding the area between Ballina/Byron Bay and Coffs Harbour. Taking them further west than usual.

SYD-BNE traffic is routing BANDA DCT VEGAH DCT GAMBL DCT CG instead of taking the H185 airway.

SYD-OOL traffic is routing BANDA DCT VEGAH DCT GAMBL DCT ROONY instead of taking the Y43 airway.

MEL-BNE traffic is routing MUDGI DCT RACHL DCT SUKTU Y19 PARRY Y195 GLENN putting on the same arrivals path as ADL/PER inbound traffic, rather than taking the H66 airway onto the BLAKA STAR.

CBR-BNE appears to be normal with aircraft taking H66 onto the BLAKA STAR.

All departures to the south are taking the usual routings but they are further west than the northbound airways anyway.

Weather appears to be good at both BNK and CFS and I can't think of a reason for the airspace to be closed in that area.


It could have something to do with the big Talisman Sabre military exercises happening currently. It has brought some nice heavy metal into Australia including three USAF KC-10 extenders at BNE.
 
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vhqpa
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:32 am

soyuz wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
For some reason inbound flights to South East Queensland from the south are taking a non standard routings avoiding the area between Ballina/Byron Bay and Coffs Harbour. Taking them further west than usual.

SYD-BNE traffic is routing BANDA DCT VEGAH DCT GAMBL DCT CG instead of taking the H185 airway.

SYD-OOL traffic is routing BANDA DCT VEGAH DCT GAMBL DCT ROONY instead of taking the Y43 airway.

MEL-BNE traffic is routing MUDGI DCT RACHL DCT SUKTU Y19 PARRY Y195 GLENN putting on the same arrivals path as ADL/PER inbound traffic, rather than taking the H66 airway onto the BLAKA STAR.

CBR-BNE appears to be normal with aircraft taking H66 onto the BLAKA STAR.

All departures to the south are taking the usual routings but they are further west than the northbound airways anyway.

Weather appears to be good at both BNK and CFS and I can't think of a reason for the airspace to be closed in that area.


It could have something to do with the big Talisman Sabre military exercises happening currently. It has brought some nice heavy metal into Australia including three USAF KC-10 extenders at BNE.


I thought about that but I thought that was happening on the Central Queensland coast.

To better explain here are a couple of maps.

Image
Standard SYD-BNE

Image
Non standard SYD-BNE

Image
Standard MEL-BNE

Image
Non standard MEL-BNE
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
Boof
Posts: 151
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:54 am

TasFlyer wrote:
Yes, daily ADL-HBA would be better; one solid route rather than two marginal ones, and easier to drop a frequency over winter if needed.

The LST-ADL to which you refer was operated by Southern in a BAE 146-200, and used to cycle the jet through the ADL base.


LST hinted at a new route recently on Facebook. I wouldn’t be surprised if LST-ADL was launched 3 weekly.

While I love your enthusiasm for HBA-ADL daily, JQ have a track record of running flights 4 days to one port, 3 days to another. HBA & LST to BNE ran like that for a few years. More recently the AVV services to ADL and HBA were shared like this. I’d suggest that running daily flights when demand isn’t there is what makes them marginal rather than meeting the demand out of two ports to one on a reduced frequency.

vhqpa wrote:
soyuz wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
For some reason inbound flights to South East Queensland from the south are taking a non standard routings avoiding the area between Ballina/Byron Bay and Coffs Harbour. Taking them further west than usual.

SYD-BNE traffic is routing BANDA DCT VEGAH DCT GAMBL DCT CG instead of taking the H185 airway.

SYD-OOL traffic is routing BANDA DCT VEGAH DCT GAMBL DCT ROONY instead of taking the Y43 airway.

MEL-BNE traffic is routing MUDGI DCT RACHL DCT SUKTU Y19 PARRY Y195 GLENN putting on the same arrivals path as ADL/PER inbound traffic, rather than taking the H66 airway onto the BLAKA STAR.

CBR-BNE appears to be normal with aircraft taking H66 onto the BLAKA STAR.

All departures to the south are taking the usual routings but they are further west than the northbound airways anyway.

Weather appears to be good at both BNK and CFS and I can't think of a reason for the airspace to be closed in that area.


It could have something to do with the big Talisman Sabre military exercises happening currently. It has brought some nice heavy metal into Australia including three USAF KC-10 extenders at BNE.


I thought about that but I thought that was happening on the Central Queensland coast.

To better explain here are a couple of maps.


This is to do with Talisman Sabre. The amended routings for MEL and SYD to Brisbane is part of the AIP SUP H80/19. While the action is up north the fast jets and supporting aircraft are coming out of Amberley and it is to do with getting them in and out.
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
Boof
Posts: 151
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:14 am

747m8te wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:
budgetflyer wrote:

Thanks, will be sure to check that one out.



Personally I would rather see JQ grow HBA-ADL to a daily service (at least over the summer months) first before attempting LST-ADL flights - HBA has a much stronger catchment area to work from, not to mention a better mix of tourism, VFR and business traffic to sustain a route like TAS-ADL, and I think having a daily flight with a consistent schedule would allow JQ to capture some higher-yielding traffic on this route as the only carrier with non-stop services. LST-ADL flights would not be totally unprecedented though - if I recall correctly, Qantaslink ran one or two weekly flights on the route around 2001/2002 for a short time. Having a carrier like JQ on the route could really stimulate the market and boost tourism to Northern Tas.

It is a shame that we don't have an airline that competes more aggressively for point-to-point traffic as there are many routes like LST-ADL that have potential, yet remain unserved by the major four carriers. It would be nice to see a Ryanair / AirAsia style airline here one day, one with a lower cost base and a network that connects our secondary airports better. The closest thing we have had is the old Virgin Blue - innovative, fresh and not afraid of creating new markets - I am thinking of routes such as MEL-MKY, HBA-CBR and TSV-OOL, routes which we are unlikely to see any of our existing airlines re-enter anytime soon.


Yes, daily ADL-HBA would be better; one solid route rather than two marginal ones, and easier to drop a frequency over winter if needed.

The LST-ADL to which you refer was operated by Southern in a BAE 146-200, and used to cycle the jet through the ADL base.


Speaking of LST, I have often wondered how well Qantaslink would do if they did a LST-SYD with the Q400s 2x daily to serve SYD direct and capture international connections ex SYD.

And to that note even have Qantaslink fly Q400s on flights from both HBA/LST to ADL.


I agree that SYD-LST would make a good Q400 service. I’ve often thought recently they could do the same as the new Bendigo service and have it arrive in the evening and depart in the morning. Maybe a middle of the day return as well could work.

Not sure about ADL. I think the JQ product suites the route to Tasmania well from ADL. I’d rather see HBA-PER by QF 737. Currently Hobart is the only capital city that doesn’t have one stop to LHR using QF9/10.
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budgetflyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:52 am

TasFlyer wrote:

Yes, daily ADL-HBA would be better; one solid route rather than two marginal ones, and easier to drop a frequency over winter if needed.

The LST-ADL to which you refer was operated by Southern in a BAE 146-200, and used to cycle the jet through the ADL base.


I see - operated not necessarily for commercial but rather for operational reasons instead.

Still, this must have been 17 or 18 years ago, and the dynamics of the market have no doubt changed in that time - Tasmania's tourism industry has grown enormously since then, for a start.

747m8te wrote:

Speaking of LST, I have often wondered how well Qantaslink would do if they did a LST-SYD with the Q400s 2x daily to serve SYD direct and capture international connections ex SYD.

And to that note even have Qantaslink fly Q400s on flights from both HBA/LST to ADL.


That also seems like a rational, measured way for QF to grow its presence in TAS. LST-SYD is probably short enough that it could be operated by a Q400 with an acceptable block time vis-a-vis a 737 or A320, and surely QF could offer enough connections over SYD to fill 70 or so seats per day. A hypothetical 0900 departure from SYD and a 1130 return from LST would connect well to QF's existing services to North America, LHR and NZ, not to mention its domestic network.

Another route which would be perfect for Qantaslink would be HBA-CBR; the lower trip costs of a Q400 versus an E190 and Qantas' strength in these two markets (in terms of corporate contracts and QFF'ers) could make this route successful once again. If VA managed to sustain this route for four years, I would think that QF would have no trouble doing the same using a lower-cost, smaller aircraft.

Boof wrote:

LST hinted at a new route recently on Facebook. I wouldn’t be surprised if LST-ADL was launched 3 weekly.

While I love your enthusiasm for HBA-ADL daily, JQ have a track record of running flights 4 days to one port, 3 days to another. HBA & LST to BNE ran like that for a few years. More recently the AVV services to ADL and HBA were shared like this. I’d suggest that running daily flights when demand isn’t there is what makes them marginal rather than meeting the demand out of two ports to one on a reduced frequency.

[


This is also true - Jetstar certainly do not shy away from operating some of their thinner markets sub-daily. Having said this, I think AVV is an exception to this rule; any flights launched from AVV will compete for passengers with MEL, and as JQ is the dominant LCC at both airports, any flight launched from AVV to a JQ station with an existing flight to MEL will simply siphon off the lowest-yielding traffic from the already-operational route. Any changes to a JQ route at AVV would have to take into account the existing service to the same airport from MEL, as these airports are essentially part of the same market.

Operating in a market such as LST-ADL or HBA-BNE is different however, in that adding non-stop flights will allow JQ to attract passengers who connect via another port away from other carriers, as well as stimulating demand by reducing travel times and fares.

In any case, I hope we will see more routes like these in the future!
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:26 am

Virgin Australia / Newcastle Airport have announced the return of seasonal flights between Newcastle and Auckland for the next three years.

Apparantly the flights were quite popular and generated alot of revenue for the Hunter Region.
 
juliusg
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:43 am

[quote="vhqpa"][quote="soyuz"][quote="vhqpa"]For some reason inbound flights to South East Queensland from the south are taking a non standard routings avoiding the area between Ballina/Byron Bay and Coffs Harbour. Taking them further west than usual.

May be the restricted area south of Ballina, when I flew private single engine we had to scoot in via Casino before tracking south.
 
Planes4you
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:52 am

aerohottie wrote:
I've heard those rumours too, but I'm not so sure. What does an additional DFW flight add to the combined network that isn't already effectively offered by the other DFW flights? (other than NZ of course)
I think LAX-AKL would have to go daily year-round before an additional flight was added to AKL.
However, if an additional flight was added, how about AKL-ORD or AKL-CLT or even AKL-MIA


If CLT can’t even get service to Asia do you seriously think AA will add AKL-CLT.And even if they did that route would still be ridiculous and impossible same with MIA.(I’m sorry if this sounded rude but come on it’s Charlotte they don’t get much)
 
DanielK
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:17 am

Tomorrow Air Mauritius will be sending their brand new Airbus A330-900 NEO to Perth ex. MRU as a one-off visit. Arriving at approx. 0900 AM AWST UTC +8 and departing at approx. 1305 AWST UTC +8.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:25 am

With this talk of south eastern AU regional growth with QFLink, how stretched is the QFLink Dash-8 and 717 fleet? Is there flexibility to add new routes with a reshuffle? SYD slots are also probably a problem in peak times when a MEL flight would make more than and LST where a similar number of connections could be offered over MEL
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:30 am

Boof wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:
Yes, daily ADL-HBA would be better; one solid route rather than two marginal ones, and easier to drop a frequency over winter if needed.

The LST-ADL to which you refer was operated by Southern in a BAE 146-200, and used to cycle the jet through the ADL base.


LST hinted at a new route recently on Facebook. I wouldn’t be surprised if LST-ADL was launched 3 weekly.

While I love your enthusiasm for HBA-ADL daily, JQ have a track record of running flights 4 days to one port, 3 days to another. HBA & LST to BNE ran like that for a few years. More recently the AVV services to ADL and HBA were shared like this. I’d suggest that running daily flights when demand isn’t there is what makes them marginal rather than meeting the demand out of two ports to one on a reduced frequency.

vhqpa wrote:
soyuz wrote:

It could have something to do with the big Talisman Sabre military exercises happening currently. It has brought some nice heavy metal into Australia including three USAF KC-10 extenders at BNE.


I thought about that but I thought that was happening on the Central Queensland coast.

To better explain here are a couple of maps.


This is to do with Talisman Sabre. The amended routings for MEL and SYD to Brisbane is part of the AIP SUP H80/19. While the action is up north the fast jets and supporting aircraft are coming out of Amberley and it is to do with getting them in and out.


Thank you that makes complete sense.
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DanielK
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:07 am

I’ve heard reports that OE-IIP Cobham’s new Q400 hasn’t flown since its first leg due to radio issues. It’s believed it will take another week for it to arrive in Perth
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:32 am

Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx
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zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:05 am

qf789 wrote:
Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx


Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:23 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx


Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?


I think the prerequisite for NZ/CX alliance was that the HKG-CHC route must be operated, which perhaps had added that much incentive for the approval.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:33 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx


Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?


The only other competition is VA from MEL and SYD, from places such as BNE and PER CX/QF own 100% of the market on direct services to HKG
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tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:38 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx


Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?

QF/CX combined is over 90% of the traffic between AU and HK; it was always doomed. I expect that both QF/CX always knew this and it was a softening up exercise for something that they feel they can probably get through in future.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:49 am

QuayWeeAir wrote:
Virgin Australia / Newcastle Airport have announced the return of seasonal flights between Newcastle and Auckland for the next three years.

Apparently the flights were quite popular and generated a lot of revenue for the Hunter Region.

Not that popular - working from BITRE you can see that there was an average of 86 pax/flight in December, 110 pax/flight in January, and 91 pax/flight. For them to commit to a three-year operation must have required significant investment from NTL and/or the local Council.
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Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:12 am

tullamarine wrote:
zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx


Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?

QF/CX combined is over 90% of the traffic between AU and HK; it was always doomed. I expect that both QF/CX always knew this and it was a softening up exercise for something that they feel they can probably get through in future.


Exactly, and they would have been looking down the track too, VA's on the route currently but I wouldn't call it guaranteed, there's every chance it would have been QF/CX owning 100% of the market in a few years time.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:32 am

Last night’s VA68 HKG-MEL overnighted in HKG, departed just over an hour ago
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zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:42 am

qf789 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx


Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?


The only other competition is VA from MEL and SYD, from places such as BNE and PER CX/QF own 100% of the market on direct services to HKG


Has Hong Kong Airlines now fully pulled out of Australia?
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:00 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?


The only other competition is VA from MEL and SYD, from places such as BNE and PER CX/QF own 100% of the market on direct services to HKG


Has Hong Kong Airlines now fully pulled out of Australia?


Yes ( so I believe). HX couldn't fly to the main cities due to CX using up all the bilateral slots.

Some of the JV's approved in NZ have me shaking my head.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:02 am

DavidByrne wrote:
QuayWeeAir wrote:
Virgin Australia / Newcastle Airport have announced the return of seasonal flights between Newcastle and Auckland for the next three years.

Apparently the flights were quite popular and generated a lot of revenue for the Hunter Region.

Not that popular - working from BITRE you can see that there was an average of 86 pax/flight in December, 110 pax/flight in January, and 91 pax/flight. For them to commit to a three-year operation must have required significant investment from NTL and/or the local Council.


Yes but they may also see long term potential. If they still had the tie up with NZ it would have been much better IMO.

I'm heading to SFO in December and leaving NTL instead of SYD would be nice.
 
TasFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:30 am

747m8te wrote:

Speaking of LST, I have often wondered how well Qantaslink would do if they did a LST-SYD with the Q400s 2x daily to serve SYD direct and capture international connections ex SYD.

And to that note even have Qantaslink fly Q400s on flights from both HBA/LST to ADL.


The problem with the Q400 on those routes is the stage length is similar to CBR-ADL and CBR-BNE, which are both unpopular in the turboprop. LST-SYD might just be OK though.

boof wrote:
LST hinted at a new route recently on Facebook. I wouldn’t be surprised if LST-ADL was launched 3 weekly.

While I love your enthusiasm for HBA-ADL daily, JQ have a track record of running flights 4 days to one port, 3 days to another. HBA & LST to BNE ran like that for a few years. More recently the AVV services to ADL and HBA were shared like this. I’d suggest that running daily flights when demand isn’t there is what makes them marginal rather than meeting the demand out of two ports to one on a reduced frequency.


Yes, I saw a pay-walled article recently where LST expressed their wish for more flights to SYD, and direct flights to ADL. From March 2020 there appears to be additional JQ LST-SYD flights.
Re the daily vs split frequencies, the other major factor is that historically JQ have loved to play the airports off against one another to get a better deal. But, there is no doubt HBA-ADL could support a daily service; DJ ran a daily 73H year-round before they cut the route in 2010, which was in part because of cuts to ADL-MEL meaning the aircraft had no means to get to ADL to operate the ADL-HBA sector.

boof wrote:
I think the JQ product suites the route to Tasmania well from ADL. I’d rather see HBA-PER by QF 737. Currently Hobart is the only capital city that doesn’t have one stop to LHR using QF9/10.


I agree.

budgetflyer wrote:
TasFlyer wrote:

The LST-ADL to which you refer was operated by Southern in a BAE 146-200, and used to cycle the jet through the ADL base.

I see - operated not necessarily for commercial but rather for operational reasons instead.

Still, this must have been 17 or 18 years ago, and the dynamics of the market have no doubt changed in that time - Tasmania's tourism industry has grown enormously since then, for a start.


Yes, from memory, it started in 1998 when the 142 replaced the 733/4, and was cut in 2001 when the 717 replaced the 142 in 2001.

budgetflyer wrote:
Another route which would be perfect for Qantaslink would be HBA-CBR; the lower trip costs of a Q400 versus an E190 and Qantas' strength in these two markets (in terms of corporate contracts and QFF'ers) could make this route successful once again. If VA managed to sustain this route for four years, I would think that QF would have no trouble doing the same using a lower-cost, smaller aircraft.


Definitely; although the 717 would be better. Let's hope the immediate need to expand the apron at HBA is because QF want to base a 717 overnight to operate HBA-CBR as a cold start. Similarly to the reason for VA dropping HBA-ADL, the HBA-CBR was cut when the ATR replaced the E90 on SYD-CBR, meaning the E90 had no way to get to CBR to operate CBR-HBA.

smi0006 wrote:
With this talk of south eastern AU regional growth with QFLink, how stretched is the QFLink Dash-8 and 717 fleet? Is there flexibility to add new routes with a reshuffle? SYD slots are also probably a problem in peak times when a MEL flight would make more than and LST where a similar number of connections could be offered over MEL


What is this talk? More 717s at HBA and LST would be most welcome!
 
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rtav
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:33 am

A mere 7 months and 20 days after Air Mauritius planned to operate the Airbus A330-900neo to Perth, 3B-NBV will be operating a one-off service to Perth as MK440/441 tomorrow (24/7). This will be the first A330-900neo visit to Australia if I’m not mistaken (although I’m unaware if there was any promo flights a couple years back?)

The next A330-900neo operated Air Mauritius flight is scheduled in for the 2nd of October later this year!
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:44 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx


Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?


The NZ government doesn’t seem to worry about competition, just increasing capacity.

SQ/NZ no completions but may have resulted in CHC and WLG flying. UA/NZ only AA seasonally, and soon AC/NZ - no competition. The AU government clearly is concerned about ensuring competition remains in the market- good to see imo!!
 
getluv
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Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:59 am

smi0006 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Final decision on QF/CX codeshare deal has been handed down, the proposed deal has been rejected

https://www.iasc.gov.au/determinations_ ... sc204.aspx


Ironically the NZ/CX deal got approved and is operating, would have thought the NZ/CX deal would have had an lot more conflicts that QF/CX.

Wouldn’t Australia-HKG have a lot more competition?


The NZ government doesn’t seem to worry about competition, just increasing capacity.

SQ/NZ no completions but may have resulted in CHC and WLG flying. UA/NZ only AA seasonally, and soon AC/NZ - no competition. The AU government clearly is concerned about ensuring competition remains in the market- good to see imo!!


Err. Respective to their markets, I would say the CX/NZ deal is more detrimental than QF/CX arrangement. The QF/CX is just codesharing and not a joint business arrangement so the proposition of additional flying and better scheduling could never be offered unless QF/CX went to the ACCC first.

VA is much more vocal than QF is with NZ when it comes to these things, probably because they have some skin in the game. I don't think QF objected at all to NZ - SQ/CX's alliance.

I would question whether previous rejections by the IASC (namely, QF/SA, QF/PX) have actually benefitted the consumer.
Last edited by getluv on Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:01 am

TasFlyer wrote:

smi0006 wrote:
With this talk of south eastern AU regional growth with QFLink, how stretched is the QFLink Dash-8 and 717 fleet? Is there flexibility to add new routes with a reshuffle? SYD slots are also probably a problem in peak times when a MEL flight would make more than and LST where a similar number of connections could be offered over MEL


What is this talk? More 717s at HBA and LST would be most welcome!


That what I was asking - is there capacity in the Q400 and 717 fleet to add flights? Is a network shuffle needed to free up capacity or is it maxed out? Are slots available in SYD/MEL that allow connections internationally.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:04 am

NTLDaz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
QuayWeeAir wrote:
Virgin Australia / Newcastle Airport have announced the return of seasonal flights between Newcastle and Auckland for the next three years.

Apparently the flights were quite popular and generated a lot of revenue for the Hunter Region.

Not that popular - working from BITRE you can see that there was an average of 86 pax/flight in December, 110 pax/flight in January, and 91 pax/flight. For them to commit to a three-year operation must have required significant investment from NTL and/or the local Council.


Yes but they may also see long term potential. If they still had the tie up with NZ it would have been much better IMO.

I'm heading to SFO in December and leaving NTL instead of SYD would be nice.


The Council were probably better off throwing the money at NZ than VA.

50-65% LF during high season is atrocious, however I would like to hear from the locals whether the route was promoted well. Clearly VA are getting thrown enough money to keep these services running.
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NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:24 am

getluv wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Not that popular - working from BITRE you can see that there was an average of 86 pax/flight in December, 110 pax/flight in January, and 91 pax/flight. For them to commit to a three-year operation must have required significant investment from NTL and/or the local Council.


Yes but they may also see long term potential. If they still had the tie up with NZ it would have been much better IMO.

I'm heading to SFO in December and leaving NTL instead of SYD would be nice.


The Council were probably better off throwing the money at NZ than VA.

50-65% LF during high season is atrocious, however I would like to hear from the locals whether the route was promoted well. Clearly VA are getting thrown enough money to keep these services running.


As a local I'd say it was reasonably well marketed. Certainly plenty of press, radio and TV coverage.

The lead in time to flights was about the same last year which may not have been enough. I hope there was marketing of the Hunter as a destination in NZ.

The airport is owned by 2 councils so at least the subsidy ( whatever it is ) is split.
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