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edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:16 am

Air India sale: Amit Shah to head ministerial panel

The panel will now have four ministers - Amit Shah, Nirmala Sitharaman, Piyush Goyal and aviation minister Hardeep Singh Pur

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 99694.html
 
srkSJC
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:48 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
adi00654 wrote:
avier wrote:
Criticism and mockery of airlines like AI & SG are very relevant and needed (to bring awareness), considering the amount of cr*p that happens at those two airlines in various ways. One should go on Twitter and see what their fliers post with pic/video proof of the happenings at those airlines almost on a daily basis, especially SG of late. Ofcourse SG/AI fanboys (& fangirls) will be offended at such noise made.


AFAIK nobody is offended on criticism and mockery of AI/SG..but making constant criticism on India and DGCA it's policies etc is not correct without taking things into consideration .


Why not point out where he is wrong rather than trying to stifle discussion. Some people are bullish on things some are negative. People here are mature enough to see any slants. Censorship should not be the solution though. IMHO when looking at Indian aviation today, there are more things that come under "comedy of errors" then "great aviation" - which is sad and should hopefully change.


Question is not why someone is not pointing out the fault in the statement. They have and they are. This was a rapidly evolving situation and DGCA acted in the way it should have and it did. History shows that DGCA has not displayed the same alacrity it should have in the past (and it was no doubt criticized for it correctly). But to always demean some regulatory body even when they did no wrong is bad. We must approach with an open mind to situations. No one has said Indian regulations are best in the world, but the benefit of doubt must be extended to whoever is deserving. The DGCA deserved that benefit when it took immediate action. The Pilots of Vistara deserved it when they were found to be not in fault in the preliminary probe and thus allowed to resume flying duties with immediate effect..The user in question did not credit DGCA for prompt corrective action and then taking it back when it was found that the action was unnecessary.People can get agitated with certain actions of the regulator but credit must be made when due. infact i saw a post that Spice Jet pilots must be also allowed to resume duties who have been grounded in the recent rainy landings incidents if preliminary probe does not indicate their fault(whether or not it is a valid point is beyond this discussion).

Some care in posting the views or comments can be helpful i believe. Having said that, i sincerely think all of us bring out facts which increases the debate and gives more knowledge. Censorship does not help anyone any time.
 
srkSJC
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:48 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:29 am

edealinfo wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
“Jet Airways revival hopes all but over with claims totalling ₹24,887 crore”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 74785.html


This article really doesn't make sense. The other articles I have read focus on just buying the Jet assets, which include slots and intangible assets, and not taking over Jet's debt. The process to save Jet ended. The full purpose of the iBC is to be able to buy assets free of debt. Again things don't make sense. Leave aside Jet for a moment, India desperately needs a proper bankruptcy code. Without one, most of the capital infused into companies will be lost if it goes bankrupt. There would be no way to save most of it. What a waste to a country's economy. Ideally, vistas, Spice etc should be able to buy what is left of Jet (including slots - obviously following the rules and having the planes to use them) and move on. Let Jet die but not its infrastructure.

The way I understand it (and I could be wrong) is that in India’s bankruptcy proceedings (NCLAT) an attempt must first be made for “the company” to be sold and if that doesn’t happen, which is the most likely case.....then it would be “liquidation” which I presume is the formal phase for just disposing the assets.

So, even though an attempt to sell Jet failed only a month ago, another formal attempt will have to be made As part of NCLAT. I am sure that in drafting the law, the intent was noble but from a practical standpoint it another bureaucratic hurdle.


It is factual on a particular case. The RP has a duty to ensure that all stakeholders get maximum benefit and the health of company is nursed back to health.
 
srkSJC
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:48 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:37 am

unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Why wouldn’t Indigo fare well on the Mumbai to Singapore route? Aren’t SpiceJet, Air India, Vistara and Go(?) already operating or will be operating on the route? What gives one of these Indian airlines and advantage over the other in operating this route?

BOM-SIN was among IndiGo's first ever international routes in 2011. It barely lasted a year.


Which leads to the question that what has changed since 2011 and now? Denser network out of MAA and BOM, financial muscle, codeshare with Turkish, new target audience, better aircraft utilisation, or something else ? One of the reasons for flights not continuing that i remember is that excessive competition from SQ to protect their home base made 6E to retreat to fight another day....Has that day finally arrived. Guess we will know in six months or so.
 
srkSJC
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:48 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:53 am

edealinfo wrote:
srkSJC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Aviation Regulator penalizes pilot for genuine emergency -- what message is India sending?

https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/av ... 65065.html


The message it is sending that it means business now.....no matter what the "quality linkages" of an airline is or might be.....see this https://twitter.com/Mohan_Rngnathan/sta ... 0716521473

He is a certified training captain and expert in South Asia.... In fact he was Silk Air Check Captain, Instructor Captain...

I don’t get your point. So, you are suggesting that a captain shouldn’t declare an emergency when he has just 10 minutes of fuel? That would be nuts! Heck, an avianca plane crashed in New York years ago because it ran out of fuel and couldn’t land in time. I believe there were hardly any survivors.

What you are suggesting I’d totally dangerous. Pilots will now take greater risks in declaring emergencies in fear they would be penalized for it!


I am not suggesting anything Sir....But will address your concerns.....

Avianca was a complex issue....see these

https://www.tailstrike.com/250190.htm

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AR9104.pdf

https://lessonslearned.faa.gov/Avianca5 ... pop_up.htm

Once you have read all of these, i will like to draw your attention to what Air India pilots did in low fuel and rapidly changing bad weather conditions: (LISTEN to complete audio clip)

https://youtu.be/5FTw9TQtw38

and https://youtu.be/OJOgUfqAitE

Crew training is the key. Safety culture comes from the processes.

DISCLAIMER: Air India had two pairs of cockpit crew (one was not active cockpit crew but had flown the initial leg of the 17 hour flight) since this is ULH flight.
 
srkSJC
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:48 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:58 am

avier wrote:
binayak wrote:
avier wrote:

IndiGo will be starting from next month, from 22nd Aug onwards, with daily flights on:

Mumbai- Singapore
Mumbai- Bangkok


BOM SIN once again. Well best of luck to them this time. Is there any possibility of a Mumbai - Chengdu in future by 6E given they're launching one from DEL ?

I doubt they'd want to serve the same city in China from Mumbai again, when they can offer Chengdu as a one-stop through DEL from Mumbai. Instead they can launch ops in a new city in China from BOM, like Beijing-since there are no direct flights there from the financial capital.


If they are smart enough then will start DELHI- BEIJING Daxing Intl. Airport (the new one) ....saw reports that major carriers are now rushing to operate flights from there as there are no slot restrictions or other issues. { a similar but slightly different issue was discussed in 2018 in this same thread about how carriers will distribute flights when multiple airports serving same market opens up}.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:00 am

Ministry may form panel to decide on Jet Airways' bilateral rights

"The civil aviation ministry is likely to form a working committee to find new ways to reallocate Jet Airways’ overseas flying rights in the wake of IndiGo and GoAir complaining about the procedure followed last time, industry insiders said.

“The ministry has assured us that they will put a working committee together and again discuss inputs from all parties involved to understand what’s the best way (to allocate foreign flying rights) going forward,”

I THINK THE key phrase HERE IS "Going forward". THIS MEANS THOSE THAT WERE ALLOCATED RIGHTS WOULD KEEP THEM.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 285916.cms
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:06 am

Profitability (or lack of it) by Indian carriers.....
https://ultra.news/t-t/47938/vistara-ai ... rs-1-33-km
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:07 am

srkSJC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
srkSJC wrote:

The message it is sending that it means business now.....no matter what the "quality linkages" of an airline is or might be.....see this https://twitter.com/Mohan_Rngnathan/sta ... 0716521473

He is a certified training captain and expert in South Asia.... In fact he was Silk Air Check Captain, Instructor Captain...

I don’t get your point. So, you are suggesting that a captain shouldn’t declare an emergency when he has just 10 minutes of fuel? That would be nuts! Heck, an avianca plane crashed in New York years ago because it ran out of fuel and couldn’t land in time. I believe there were hardly any survivors.

What you are suggesting I’d totally dangerous. Pilots will now take greater risks in declaring emergencies in fear they would be penalized for it!


I am not suggesting anything Sir....But will address your concerns.....

Avianca was a complex issue....see these

https://www.tailstrike.com/250190.htm

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AR9104.pdf

https://lessonslearned.faa.gov/Avianca5 ... pop_up.htm

Once you have read all of these, i will like to draw your attention to what Air India pilots did in low fuel and rapidly changing bad weather conditions: (LISTEN to complete audio clip)

https://youtu.be/5FTw9TQtw38

and https://youtu.be/OJOgUfqAitE

Crew training is the key. Safety culture comes from the processes.

DISCLAIMER: Air India had two pairs of cockpit crew (one was not active cockpit crew but had flown the initial leg of the 17 hour flight) since this is ULH flight.

thank you.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:18 am

India, A second hub for Singapore Airlines?

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/a- ... e-airlines
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:23 am

Pakistan Says Airspace Restrictions After India Clashes Cost Its Aviation $50 Million (this is in addition to the 19 pine trees lost in the skirmish with India). In contrast, India Air India lost rupees 500 crores (for the airspace ban), and also a fighter jet.

https://www.rferl.org/a/pakistan-says-a ... 63561.html
 
sibibom
Posts: 473
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:04 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:32 am

srkSJC wrote:
unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Why wouldn’t Indigo fare well on the Mumbai to Singapore route? Aren’t SpiceJet, Air India, Vistara and Go(?) already operating or will be operating on the route? What gives one of these Indian airlines and advantage over the other in operating this route?

BOM-SIN was among IndiGo's first ever international routes in 2011. It barely lasted a year.


Which leads to the question that what has changed since 2011 and now? Denser network out of MAA and BOM, financial muscle, codeshare with Turkish, new target audience, better aircraft utilisation, or something else ? One of the reasons for flights not continuing that i remember is that excessive competition from SQ to protect their home base made 6E to retreat to fight another day....Has that day finally arrived. Guess we will know in six months or so.


Another important factor is A320/1NEO with better range and economics, when your margin is at best 3-5%, a fuel saving of 15% (30% of their total cost) can make or break routes. Also Indigo initially struggled with crew layover, per diem etc. This was an added cost which domestic network lacked. They seem to figured it out now.
 
anshabhi
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:47 am

6E will declare quarterly results today post market hours
 
VTORD
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:02 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Pakistan Says Airspace Restrictions After India Clashes Cost Its Aviation $50 Million (this is in addition to the 19 pine trees lost in the skirmish with India). In contrast, India Air India lost rupees 500 crores (for the airspace ban), and also a fighter jet.

https://www.rferl.org/a/pakistan-says-a ... 63561.html


1 USD = 69 INR
1 USD = 159 PNR

I hope your math is better than your English reading and comprehension. Converting 500 Crore to USD comes to about $72.5 million give or take. $22 million dollar difference should be chump change to the fastest growing trillion-dollar economy in the world. There is nothing to add to this conversation.
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2265
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:04 pm

Revenue from Operations of INR 94,201 million for the quarter, an increase of 44.7% against a
30.3% increase in capacity compared to same period last year.
EBITDAR of INR 27,785 million with EBITDAR margin of 29.5% for the quarter, compared to
EBITDAR of INR 11,301 million with EBITDAR margin of 17.4% for the same period last year
Profit Before Tax of INR 15,094 million and Profit After Tax of INR 12,031 million for the quarter
Basic earnings per share was INR 31.29 for the quarter
Strong balance sheet with a total cash of INR 173,371 million including free cash of INR 76,968
million

https://www.goindigo.in/content/dam/goi ... 1-FY20.pdf

45% increase in revenue is insane !!
 
adi00654
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:38 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Pakistan Says Airspace Restrictions After India Clashes Cost Its Aviation $50 Million (this is in addition to the 19 pine trees lost in the skirmish with India). In contrast, India Air India lost rupees 500 crores (for the airspace ban), and also a fighter jet.

https://www.rferl.org/a/pakistan-says-a ... 63561.html


Are you an official spokesperson of Pakistan ?They have an economy which is compared to few of our states In India.So stop comparing it with India.
Moroever why don't you go and ask people there in Balakot area were the strike happened.They would give you a nice piece of mind.Even after presenting facts you fail to accept .You are having a personal grudge against India.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:49 pm

VTORD wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Pakistan Says Airspace Restrictions After India Clashes Cost Its Aviation $50 Million (this is in addition to the 19 pine trees lost in the skirmish with India). In contrast, India Air India lost rupees 500 crores (for the airspace ban), and also a fighter jet.

https://www.rferl.org/a/pakistan-says-a ... 63561.html


1 USD = 69 INR
1 USD = 159 PNR

I hope your math is better than your English reading and comprehension. Converting 500 Crore to USD comes to about $72.5 million give or take. $22 million dollar difference should be chump change to the fastest growing trillion-dollar economy in the world. There is nothing to add to this conversation.


You forgot to also compare the cost of the loss of 19 pine trees to the cost of the downed fighter aircraft and the loss of face for a captured pilot. Did you English comprehension not pick that?

The reason I bring this up is that it totally amazes me how some on this forum have totally bought into the propaganda dished out in the Indian media that they don’t even see through and distinguish between what’s fact and patriotic zeal. regrettably,this kind of tunnel vision that India is the greatest is precisely what’s blindsighting iits people.
 
VTORD
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:44 pm

edealinfo wrote:
You forgot to also compare the cost of the loss of 19 pine trees to the cost of the downed fighter aircraft and the loss of face for a captured pilot.

Hardly...if 19 trees is considered a loss, then well......I rest my case.
Re: Wg Cdr Abhinandan, I think all of India is pretty proud of him so again there's nothing to discuss there.

edealinfo wrote:
Did you English comprehension not pick that?

The correct way to write that sentence is "Did your English comprehension not pick up on that?" So that settles that question once and for all.

edealinfo wrote:
The reason I bring this up is that it totally amazes me how some on this forum have totally bought into the propaganda dished out in the Indian media that they don’t even see through and distinguish between what’s fact and patriotic zeal. regrettably,this kind of tunnel vision that India is the greatest is precisely what’s blindsighting iits people.

Thank you for proving my point. This is where reading and trying to comprehend is a very essential skill that you severely lack young padwan.

I am very clear that for the size of the economy the amount of loss is a small / insignificant amount. Nowhere do I say India is "the greatest". Tunnel vision you say eh? Remind me the next time every politician, stand up and celebrity worth his/her salt goes on a podium and says "America is the greatest country in the world". Deal?
 
CaliguyNYC
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:55 pm

VTORD wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Pakistan Says Airspace Restrictions After India Clashes Cost Its Aviation $50 Million (this is in addition to the 19 pine trees lost in the skirmish with India). In contrast, India Air India lost rupees 500 crores (for the airspace ban), and also a fighter jet.

https://www.rferl.org/a/pakistan-says-a ... 63561.html


1 USD = 69 INR
1 USD = 159 PNR

I hope your math is better than your English reading and comprehension. Converting 500 Crore to USD comes to about $72.5 million give or take. $22 million dollar difference should be chump change to the fastest growing trillion-dollar economy in the world. There is nothing to add to this conversation.


Only would add that it was probably worth every penny, sorry paisa
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:58 pm

edealinfo wrote:
VTORD wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Pakistan Says Airspace Restrictions After India Clashes Cost Its Aviation $50 Million (this is in addition to the 19 pine trees lost in the skirmish with India). In contrast, India Air India lost rupees 500 crores (for the airspace ban), and also a fighter jet.

https://www.rferl.org/a/pakistan-says-a ... 63561.html


1 USD = 69 INR
1 USD = 159 PNR

I hope your math is better than your English reading and comprehension. Converting 500 Crore to USD comes to about $72.5 million give or take. $22 million dollar difference should be chump change to the fastest growing trillion-dollar economy in the world. There is nothing to add to this conversation.


You forgot to also compare the cost of the loss of 19 pine trees to the cost of the downed fighter aircraft and the loss of face for a captured pilot. Did you English comprehension not pick that?

The reason I bring this up is that it totally amazes me how some on this forum have totally bought into the propaganda dished out in the Indian media that they don’t even see through and distinguish between what’s fact and patriotic zeal. regrettably,this kind of tunnel vision that India is the greatest is precisely what’s blindsighting iits people.


Relax this is not the right forum for this - but I think you are making a huge and incorrect generalization on people's reaction. Even if only trees were shot down, it was still worth it IMHO. The Indian govt has to stop terrorism and it seems like Indian voters agreed - nuff said.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2682
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:36 pm

edealinfo wrote:
The reason I bring this up is that it totally amazes me how some on this forum have totally bought into the propaganda dished out in the Indian media that they don’t even see through and distinguish between what’s fact and patriotic zeal. regrettably,this kind of tunnel vision that India is the greatest is precisely what’s blindsighting iits people.

And you have bought into the propaganda spread by the Pakistani side. Perhaps you do not like the ruling dispensation in India. It is regrettable that you and many others choose to let their political preferences colour their opinion.
And even if the result of the air strike was only a loss of a few trees, the operation was worth more than the few hundred crore rupees that Indian airlines lost.

Moving on, domestic pax growth was 6% in June. The industry has well and truly rebounded from Jet's shutdown.
17April2019: RIP Jet Airways
 
kovacsszandra
Posts: 1
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:59 pm

srkSJC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
srkSJC wrote:

The message it is sending that it means business now.....no matter what the "quality linkages" of an airline is or might be.....see this https://twitter.com/Mohan_Rngnathan/sta ... 0716521473

He is a certified training captain and expert in South Asia.... In fact he was Silk Air Check Captain, Instructor Captain...

I don’t get your point. So, you are suggesting that a captain shouldn’t declare an emergency when he has just 10 minutes of fuel? That would be nuts! Heck, an avianca plane crashed in New York years ago because it ran out of fuel and couldn’t land in time. I believe there were hardly any survivors.

What you are suggesting I’d totally dangerous. Pilots will now take greater risks in declaring emergencies in fear they would be penalized for it!


I am not suggesting anything Sir....But will address your concerns.....

Avianca was a complex issue....see these

https://www.tailstrike.com/250190.htm https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AR9104.pdf https://hu.flatfy.com/ https://lessonslearned.faa.gov/Avianca5 ... pop_up.htm

Once you have read all of these, i will like to draw your attention to what Air India pilots did in low fuel and rapidly changing bad weather conditions: (LISTEN to complete audio clip)

https://youtu.be/5FTw9TQtw38 and https://youtu.be/OJOgUfqAitE

Crew training is the key. Safety culture comes from the processes.

DISCLAIMER: Air India had two pairs of cockpit crew (one was not active cockpit crew but had flown the initial leg of the 17 hour flight) since this is ULH flight.



Yes, indeed, crew training is key. But more vigorous crew training, inspection, security measures would certainly raise the costs. Question is, having achieved such a poor reputation, is Air India actually willing to take actions towards being a more trustworthy company? Customers don't forget poor service and scandals easily. But they are highly sensitive to price variations. If additional crew training measures are to be taken, that will immediately reflect itself on the price of their tickets. And the subsequent drop in demand will severely hurt Air India. This is the core problem here in my opinion. The lack of interest in becoming better because it is simply so unrealistic by now.
 
JOYA380B747
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:10 pm

edealinfo wrote:


How are they planning to do it on the A320ceo or neo? They won't be able to lift enough fuel for return non-stop to DEL and/or takeoff from the 6400ft runway with a 7300ft altitude. There is reason why Druk air and Bhutan airlines only have A319s in their fleet (apart from ATRs) and even they take massive payload +fuel hit on their flights departing out of Paro. I cannot fathom what does G8 magically bring to the table with their fleet.

And this is all assuming we shall have G8 pilots ready and certified to land at PBH.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:56 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

. Even if only trees were shot down, it was still worth it IMHO. The Indian govt has to stop terrorism and it seems like Indian voters agreed .


Agree 100 percent
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:00 pm

unrave wrote:
And even if the result of the air strike was only a loss of a few trees, the operation was worth more than the few hundred crore rupees that Indian airlines lost.
.


Totally agree. No disputes here.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:03 pm

unrave wrote:
Perhaps you do not like the ruling dispensation in India.
.

I support their economic and financial policies
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:43 pm

More information on Jet’s slots from the Indigo conference call

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.ya ... 46634.html


“On the domestic slots, there were about 150 slots, means departure slots available both in Bombay and Delhi. This is actually less than Jet Airways had. Jet Airways had around 200 slots, but 1 airport of the 2 just could not give as many slots as previously Jet Airways had. And out of these slots, we have got about 30% of the slots. We would have expected more because our market share is 50%, but that's where we stand at this point of time, and we'll see how it goes further when we move into September/October. We definitely expect more out of these slots to be available, both in terms of more slots becoming available, specifically Delhi, who has not given all the slots for certain reasons, and also Mumbai. So we expect some significant impact on going further.

And on international, we have out of the Jet Airways pool of traffic rights, we have been awarded 12 departures in -- so 12 a day, 12 departures. Again, this is much less than what Jet Airways has been flying. And out of this 12, we have made operationally and already gone for sale on 7 of that and remaining 6 are still open because of slot issues we're having also, again, in major airports here in India. But we welcome it, and we are very hopeful that these slots can be used -- will be made available to us in the next one week or so, so we can use all the slots allocated to us. And then going further, after there is more clarity about what's happening to Jet Airways, we also expect here a major boost to our portfolio in international slots and traffic rights, especially.”
 
User avatar
CollegeAviator
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:52 pm

M-ABLX Ex VT-JFT (Jet Airways Boeing 737-800HGW) to join Vistara's fleet and will operate the flight(s) to Singapore and back.

From Vistara's Twitter:
Image
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:56 pm

Indigo’s take on the Jet effect


“Who really benefited from Jet? We had a very small benefit, and I'll tell you why. First of all, Air India must have seen a huge benefit because Jet had 65% international and 35% domestic. So Air India should have seen a big benefit. I'm sure British Airways and the international carriers are seeing a big benefit. Domestically, we just don't see a big change. Like we said March was strong, April was strong, but by June, the effect is almost 0. And here's why. Most of the capacity came back, as you know, and we got like 30, 35 slot departures in Mumbai, which is nice, which is very good, but this 35 departures out of our base of 1,400 departures. So it doesn't really impact us that much. It's hard to move the needle on the basis of 35 new departures in Mumbai.

And finally also, the telltale sign is, when we look at what happened in this quarter that we're reporting, where did the unit revenue improvement come from. If it was Jet-driven, you would say, oh, Bombay must have got a big unit revenue improvement followed by Delhi because that's where the Jet capacity was in and out. Well, the answer is no. Of our 6 hubs -- or not hubs, that's a wrong word -- of our 6 metros, Mumbai actually performed #2 and Delhi performed a weak #5. So most of the revenue impact that we're seeing is from our own internal reallocation of capacity, sales initiative, et cetera. “
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:57 pm

[url][/url]
CollegeAviator wrote:
M-ABLX Ex VT-JFT (Jet Airways Boeing 737-800HGW) to join Vistara's fleet and will operate the flight(s) to Singapore and back.

From Vistara's Twitter:
Image
is this the only High Gross Weight (HGW) plane in their fleet so far?
 
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CollegeAviator
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:11 pm

edealinfo wrote:
[url][/url]
CollegeAviator wrote:
M-ABLX Ex VT-JFT (Jet Airways Boeing 737-800HGW) to join Vistara's fleet and will operate the flight(s) to Singapore and back.

From Vistara's Twitter:
Image
is this the only High Gross Weight (HGW) plane in their fleet so far?

No sir: VT-TGC (ex-JFZ), VT-TGD (ex-JBW) and VT-TGF (ex-JTA) are HGW as well.
TGD has been flown in to Hosur for repainting, which means all HGW planes will have the UK colors.
 
edealinfo
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:43 pm

CollegeAviator wrote:
No sir: VT-TGC (ex-JFZ), VT-TGD (ex-JBW) and VT-TGF (ex-JTA) are HGW as well.
TGD has been flown in to Hosur for repainting, which means all HGW planes will have the UK colors.


Thank you for this information. May I ask you other questions?

Which of the following ex-jet planes (in the list below) will also go to Vistara? for instance, is "VT-JFT - 39066 - Stored as M-ALBX - Ferried Nagpur" also going to Vistara? These are all ex-Jet Boeing 737-800 NG planes. Thanks.

VT-JGJ - 32578 - Stored as OE-IBT
VT-JGT - 34801 - Stored as M-ABLZ
VT-JGU - 34802 - Stored as M-ABMA
VT-JGV - 34803 - Stored as 2-RLBJ
VT-JBJ - 36551 - Stored as N551AG - Ferried Chicago Rockford
VT-JBK - 36553 - Stored as N553CG - Most likely ferry Chicago Rockford
VT-JTF - 36813 - Stored as 2-VTJF - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JTG - 36815 - Stored as 2-VTJG - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JBU - 36825 - Stored as 2-STND - Ferried Tallinn
VT-JBV - 36827 - Stored as 2-CHTR
VT-JBB - 36846 - Stored as N846AG- Ferried Chicago Rockford
VT-JBC - 36847 - Stored as N847AG - Most likely ferry Chicago Rockford
VT-JFC - 38030 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JFF - 39055 - Stored
VT-JFJ - 39059 - Stored as 2-TJFJ
VT-JFK - 39060 - Stored as 2-TJFK- Ferried Ostrava
VT-JFS - 39065 - Stored as M-ABLY - Ferried Nagpur
VT-JFM - 39067 - Stored as 2-TJFM
VT-JFP - 39068 - Stored as 2-TJFP - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JTB - 39070 - Stored as 2-BTTC - Ferried Woensdrecht
VT-JFB - 39401 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JTH - 40233 - Stored as 2-TJTH - Ferried Amman
VT-JTK - 40235 - Stored as 2-TJTK - Most likely ferry to Amman
VT-JTN - 40236 - Stored as 2-TJTN - Ferried Amman
 
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CollegeAviator
Posts: 558
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:58 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CollegeAviator wrote:
No sir: VT-TGC (ex-JFZ), VT-TGD (ex-JBW) and VT-TGF (ex-JTA) are HGW as well.
TGD has been flown in to Hosur for repainting, which means all HGW planes will have the UK colors.


Thank you for this information. May I ask you other questions?

Which of the following ex-jet planes (in the list below) will also go to Vistara? for instance, is "VT-JFT - 39066 - Stored as M-ALBX - Ferried Nagpur" also going to Vistara? These are all ex-Jet Boeing 737-800 NG planes. Thanks.

VT-JGJ - 32578 - Stored as OE-IBT
VT-JGT - 34801 - Stored as M-ABLZ
VT-JGU - 34802 - Stored as M-ABMA
VT-JGV - 34803 - Stored as 2-RLBJ
VT-JBJ - 36551 - Stored as N551AG - Ferried Chicago Rockford
VT-JBK - 36553 - Stored as N553CG - Most likely ferry Chicago Rockford
VT-JTF - 36813 - Stored as 2-VTJF - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JTG - 36815 - Stored as 2-VTJG - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JBU - 36825 - Stored as 2-STND - Ferried Tallinn
VT-JBV - 36827 - Stored as 2-CHTR
VT-JBB - 36846 - Stored as N846AG- Ferried Chicago Rockford
VT-JBC - 36847 - Stored as N847AG - Most likely ferry Chicago Rockford
VT-JFC - 38030 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JFF - 39055 - Stored
VT-JFJ - 39059 - Stored as 2-TJFJ
VT-JFK - 39060 - Stored as 2-TJFK- Ferried Ostrava
VT-JFS - 39065 - Stored as M-ABLY - Ferried Nagpur
VT-JFM - 39067 - Stored as 2-TJFM
VT-JFP - 39068 - Stored as 2-TJFP - Ferried Ostrava
VT-JTB - 39070 - Stored as 2-BTTC - Ferried Woensdrecht
VT-JFB - 39401 - De-Reg Complete - Stored
VT-JTH - 40233 - Stored as 2-TJTH - Ferried Amman
VT-JTK - 40235 - Stored as 2-TJTK - Most likely ferry to Amman
VT-JTN - 40236 - Stored as 2-TJTN - Ferried Amman


Certainly! ex VT-JFT makes for 7 737s in Vistara's fleet, and I wouldn't be surprised if VT-JFS joins as well because it is a HGW 737-800.
VT-JFS and VT-JFT would make 8 out of the planned 10 737s Vistara were planning on adding to their fleet. I saw this coming ever since I stumbled upon 2 'unknown operator' 737-800s flying in to Nagpur back in May.

So far their trend has been to pick up 737s with Boeing Sky Interior, unlike SpiceJet who have picked up whatever they could, as quickly as they could.

From the list you have provided, the planes with Boeing Sky Interior are: JBU, JBV, JFC, JFB, JTB (HGW 737-800), and JFF, JFJ, JFK JFM, JFP (non-HGW 737-800).

One can further narrow it down from where the airplanes are parked at - those in India will most likely join UK or SG's fleet. I can only speculate, but we will all find out within the next few weeks.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:22 pm

CollegeAviator wrote:
Certainly! ex VT-JFT makes for 7 737s in Vistara's fleet, and I wouldn't be surprised if VT-JFS joins as well because it is a HGW 737-800.
VT-JFS and VT-JFT would make 8 out of the planned 10 737s Vistara were planning on adding to their fleet. I saw this coming ever since I stumbled upon 2 'unknown operator' 737-800s flying in to Nagpur back in May.

So far their trend has been to pick up 737s with Boeing Sky Interior, unlike SpiceJet who have picked up whatever they could, as quickly as they could.

From the list you have provided, the planes with Boeing Sky Interior are: JBU, JBV, JFC, JFB, JTB (HGW 737-800), and JFF, JFJ, JFK JFM, JFP (non-HGW 737-800).

One can further narrow it down from where the airplanes are parked at - those in India will most likely join UK or SG's fleet. I can only speculate, but we will all find out within the next few weeks.


Thank you for the superb and logical answer. I hope you will stay on this forum thread; you seem to have a good knowledge.
 
unnayan
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:33 pm

edealinfo wrote:
CollegeAviator wrote:
Certainly! ex VT-JFT makes for 7 737s in Vistara's fleet, and I wouldn't be surprised if VT-JFS joins as well because it is a HGW 737-800.
VT-JFS and VT-JFT would make 8 out of the planned 10 737s Vistara were planning on adding to their fleet. I saw this coming ever since I stumbled upon 2 'unknown operator' 737-800s flying in to Nagpur back in May.

So far their trend has been to pick up 737s with Boeing Sky Interior, unlike SpiceJet who have picked up whatever they could, as quickly as they could.

From the list you have provided, the planes with Boeing Sky Interior are: JBU, JBV, JFC, JFB, JTB (HGW 737-800), and JFF, JFJ, JFK JFM, JFP (non-HGW 737-800).

One can further narrow it down from where the airplanes are parked at - those in India will most likely join UK or SG's fleet. I can only speculate, but we will all find out within the next few weeks.


Thank you for the superb and logical answer. I hope you will stay on this forum thread; you seem to have a good knowledge.



You should read College Aviators trip reports.. he knows a lot more about aviation than many of us
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1296
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:21 pm

edealinfo wrote:
More information on Jet’s slots from the Indigo conference call

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.ya ... 46634.html


“On the domestic slots, there were about 150 slots, means departure slots available both in Bombay and Delhi. This is actually less than Jet Airways had. Jet Airways had around 200 slots, but 1 airport of the 2 just could not give as many slots as previously Jet Airways had. And out of these slots, we have got about 30% of the slots. We would have expected more because our market share is 50%, but that's where we stand at this point of time, and we'll see how it goes further when we move into September/October. We definitely expect more out of these slots to be available, both in terms of more slots becoming available, specifically Delhi, who has not given all the slots for certain reasons, and also Mumbai. So we expect some significant impact on going further.

And on international, we have out of the Jet Airways pool of traffic rights, we have been awarded 12 departures in -- so 12 a day, 12 departures. Again, this is much less than what Jet Airways has been flying. And out of this 12, we have made operationally and already gone for sale on 7 of that and remaining 6 are still open because of slot issues we're having also, again, in major airports here in India. But we welcome it, and we are very hopeful that these slots can be used -- will be made available to us in the next one week or so, so we can use all the slots allocated to us. And then going further, after there is more clarity about what's happening to Jet Airways, we also expect here a major boost to our portfolio in international slots and traffic rights, especially.”


I am sorry but their analysis is a bunch of self centered viewpoints. They have 50% market share so the GOI should actually not really give them any more. In most countries, the govt cares about competition, having multiple airlines on key routes and adding new city pairs. All the airlines in India like the fact that the GOI does things in such a haphazard way unless it goes against them. Fight for rules and a real system that develops Indian aviation and India. But they don’t. And that is why you won’t see me praising Indian aviation managers. They are as much to blame for the craziness of Indian aviation (and to be quite honest failure) as the GOI’s policies.

The second post stating Indigo’s view that International is where Jet really mattered is also telling. Losing Jet was more about Intl connectivity than domestic (Indigo had that covered). So while people were right that domestic routes would be filled quickly by indian airlines, the intl routes will be a hole for some time to come. Fact remains that no other indian airline can fill Jet’s place.
 
sshank
Posts: 297
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:58 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:49 pm

CPS001 wrote:
ANA schedule for NRT-MAA effective 27th October:

NH 825 NRT1110 - 1745MAA 788 357
NH 826 MAA2030 - 0725(+1)NRT 788 357

169 seater B788 to operate. Bookings open on July 24th.


Great addition to MAA. Interesting schedule here - this seems optimized for local O&D rather than connecting to their North America bank or UA's evening bank at NRT.

An ICN link would be nice, but then India as a whole is poorly connected to Korea despite the strong business relationship.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:03 am

sshank wrote:

Great addition to MAA. Interesting schedule here - this seems optimized for local O&D rather than connecting to their North America bank or UA's evening bank at NRT.

An ICN link would be nice, but then India as a whole is poorly connected to Korea despite the strong business relationship.


I think not connecting to their north American bank could be a fatal flaw. I mean how many people in India intend to travel to Osaka, Sopporo, etc. as opposed to the US. How could they have got the basics wrong?

I am surprised that India isn't well connected to S. Korea. You would think that at minimum BOM and DEL would have a daily flight to Seoul but that isn't the case.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:08 am

SpiceJet to operate direct Mangaluru-Delhi flights from August 4

SpiceJet will operate direct flights to New Delhi from the Mangaluru International Airport from August 4
On its return journey, it will leave New Delhi at 8.30 pm and arrive here at 11.15 PM
Direct flight services between these two destinations had been suspended for the past several months

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/s ... 2019-07-20
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:12 am

Ajay Singh of SpiceJet lets loose on airline woes

https://ultra.news/t-t/47958/spicejets- ... s-aviation

Singh pointed out that every year, the industry keeps giving representations and white papers to the government on the need to rationalize the taxes imposed on the sector to little avail. There has been “enough talk”, he said, and little action.

“We have additional tax on import of spare parts that come back after repair, which is five per cent, which the industry has been paying for last year and a half, about INR 2,000 crore of industry money is struck under protest,” Ajay Singh said.

“We also pay tax on tax in very many ways, in transport of fuel to our planes we pay tax twice over. As if it was not bad enough to pay the highest tax, we are also paying tax twice over.”
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:58 pm

GoAir plans to enter Hanoi in Vietnam and Phnom Penh in Cambodia.

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/ ... 1.65353813
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:44 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
More information on Jet’s slots from the Indigo conference call

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.ya ... 46634.html


“On the domestic slots, there were about 150 slots, means departure slots available both in Bombay and Delhi. This is actually less than Jet Airways had. Jet Airways had around 200 slots, but 1 airport of the 2 just could not give as many slots as previously Jet Airways had. And out of these slots, we have got about 30% of the slots. We would have expected more because our market share is 50%, but that's where we stand at this point of time, and we'll see how it goes further when we move into September/October. We definitely expect more out of these slots to be available, both in terms of more slots becoming available, specifically Delhi, who has not given all the slots for certain reasons, and also Mumbai. So we expect some significant impact on going further.

And on international, we have out of the Jet Airways pool of traffic rights, we have been awarded 12 departures in -- so 12 a day, 12 departures. Again, this is much less than what Jet Airways has been flying. And out of this 12, we have made operationally and already gone for sale on 7 of that and remaining 6 are still open because of slot issues we're having also, again, in major airports here in India. But we welcome it, and we are very hopeful that these slots can be used -- will be made available to us in the next one week or so, so we can use all the slots allocated to us. And then going further, after there is more clarity about what's happening to Jet Airways, we also expect here a major boost to our portfolio in international slots and traffic rights, especially.”


I am sorry but their analysis is a bunch of self centered viewpoints. They have 50% market share so the GOI should actually not really give them any more. In most countries, the govt cares about competition, having multiple airlines on key routes and adding new city pairs. All the airlines in India like the fact that the GOI does things in such a haphazard way unless it goes against them. Fight for rules and a real system that develops Indian aviation and India. But they don’t. And that is why you won’t see me praising Indian aviation managers. They are as much to blame for the craziness of Indian aviation (and to be quite honest failure) as the GOI’s policies.

The second post stating Indigo’s view that International is where Jet really mattered is also telling. Losing Jet was more about Intl connectivity than domestic (Indigo had that covered). So while people were right that domestic routes would be filled quickly by indian airlines, the intl routes will be a hole for some time to come. Fact remains that no other indian airline can fill Jet’s place.


Yes but Jet thrived when the rules were opaque.

Logic dictates that the Indian airlines will start going in an arc that a narrow body can cover; slots to airports like HKG and DBX may be a challenge.

Regarding long haul it is still questionable if any India. Carrier can profitably deploy especially since Air India is happily bleeding money. Yes your point regarding policy and regulator is valid; will need some house cleaning before that stage is achieved.
 
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Slash787
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:19 pm

Vistara Bombay/Delhi to Singapore will be flown on A320, NEO or B737?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 2775
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:47 pm

737
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:46 pm

vadodara wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
More information on Jet’s slots from the Indigo conference call

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.ya ... 46634.html


“On the domestic slots, there were about 150 slots, means departure slots available both in Bombay and Delhi. This is actually less than Jet Airways had. Jet Airways had around 200 slots, but 1 airport of the 2 just could not give as many slots as previously Jet Airways had. And out of these slots, we have got about 30% of the slots. We would have expected more because our market share is 50%, but that's where we stand at this point of time, and we'll see how it goes further when we move into September/October. We definitely expect more out of these slots to be available, both in terms of more slots becoming available, specifically Delhi, who has not given all the slots for certain reasons, and also Mumbai. So we expect some significant impact on going further.

And on international, we have out of the Jet Airways pool of traffic rights, we have been awarded 12 departures in -- so 12 a day, 12 departures. Again, this is much less than what Jet Airways has been flying. And out of this 12, we have made operationally and already gone for sale on 7 of that and remaining 6 are still open because of slot issues we're having also, again, in major airports here in India. But we welcome it, and we are very hopeful that these slots can be used -- will be made available to us in the next one week or so, so we can use all the slots allocated to us. And then going further, after there is more clarity about what's happening to Jet Airways, we also expect here a major boost to our portfolio in international slots and traffic rights, especially.”


I am sorry but their analysis is a bunch of self centered viewpoints. They have 50% market share so the GOI should actually not really give them any more. In most countries, the govt cares about competition, having multiple airlines on key routes and adding new city pairs. All the airlines in India like the fact that the GOI does things in such a haphazard way unless it goes against them. Fight for rules and a real system that develops Indian aviation and India. But they don’t. And that is why you won’t see me praising Indian aviation managers. They are as much to blame for the craziness of Indian aviation (and to be quite honest failure) as the GOI’s policies.

The second post stating Indigo’s view that International is where Jet really mattered is also telling. Losing Jet was more about Intl connectivity than domestic (Indigo had that covered). So while people were right that domestic routes would be filled quickly by indian airlines, the intl routes will be a hole for some time to come. Fact remains that no other indian airline can fill Jet’s place.


Yes but Jet thrived when the rules were opaque.

Logic dictates that the Indian airlines will start going in an arc that a narrow body can cover; slots to airports like HKG and DBX may be a challenge.

Regarding long haul it is still questionable if any India. Carrier can profitably deploy especially since Air India is happily bleeding money. Yes your point regarding policy and regulator is valid; will need some house cleaning before that stage is achieved.


If you feel that Indian carriers cannot profitably deploy long haul, shouldn't something be done to allow them to? India is a huge long haul source country, why would it just sit back and depend on foreign carriers to fuel its economic growth? Also the airlines and unions should be speaking out more for reform.

WRT your comment - "Yes but Jet thrived when the rules were opaque." - well that is what killed Jet in the end. NG was so used to depending on the GOI or GOI banks to save him, he never really reformed Jet the way he should have. If Jet's books were in order and NG was really making business decisions based on need and facts (rather than the GOI will save me), I think you would have seen a EU or US airline invest with them. But now we know why they didn't. And finally to your point - so what? Two wrongs don't make a right. India needs to wake the hell up and reform aviation. At least the current govt is restricting ME3 growth. This gives Indian airlines some time to figure things out. Plus air fares need to rise above cost. $800 US-India fares are predatory and do no one good.
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:33 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

If you feel that Indian carriers cannot profitably deploy long haul, shouldn't something be done to allow them to? India is a huge long haul source country, why would it just sit back and depend on foreign carriers to fuel its economic growth? Also the airlines and unions should be speaking out more for reform.

WRT your comment - "Yes but Jet thrived when the rules were opaque." - well that is what killed Jet in the end. NG was so used to depending on the GOI or GOI banks to save him, he never really reformed Jet the way he should have. If Jet's books were in order and NG was really making business decisions based on need and facts (rather than the GOI will save me), I think you would have seen a EU or US airline invest with them. But now we know why they didn't. And finally to your point - so what? Two wrongs don't make a right. India needs to wake the hell up and reform aviation. At least the current govt is restricting ME3 growth. This gives Indian airlines some time to figure things out. Plus air fares need to rise above cost. $800 US-India fares are predatory and do no one good.


There are 2 ways one can grow aviation:
A) as a service industry as in SQ and EK. Govt run AI and Unions ensured that no service industry developed in India
In any case it is too late now

B) organic growth as the economy expands. The point you are missing is the avg Air-fare from India is quiet low. Not that I am dictating what the numbers should be but till the purchasing power is there it will be difficult for Indian carriers to grow.

In the meantime if likes of EK, EY and QR subsidize Indian growth, where is the problem?
 
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Slash787
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:54 pm

edealinfo wrote:
737


sorry my bad, I did not read the post which was posted 2 days ago.
 
devmapper
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:22 pm

vadodara wrote:
In the meantime if likes of EK, EY and QR subsidize Indian growth, where is the problem?


Really? EK, EY and QR are subsidizing growth in India's international traffic? So they are flying passengers below cost out of the goodness of their hearts to European and North American destinations?
 
vadodara
Posts: 1146
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:16 pm

devmapper wrote:
vadodara wrote:
In the meantime if likes of EK, EY and QR subsidize Indian growth, where is the problem?


Really? EK, EY and QR are subsidizing growth in India's international traffic? So they are flying passengers below cost out of the goodness of their hearts to European and North American destinations?


They are flying pax from India to Europe and N America on WB aircraft.

Most airports in India do not have capability to handle such aircraft nor the airlines the ability to buy and fly.

That is called subsidy.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:22 pm

devmapper wrote:
vadodara wrote:
In the meantime if likes of EK, EY and QR subsidize Indian growth, where is the problem?


Really? EK, EY and QR are subsidizing growth in India's international traffic? So they are flying passengers below cost out of the goodness of their hearts to European and North American destinations?


Unclear to me where you were going with the above. I feel they do many times sell below cost in an effort to restrict the growth of Indian airlines. DXB and EK are held up by some as free market super stars but yet Indian carriers can't get decent slots at DXB (and India is arguably DXB's most important market). So how is that fair. India has been very generous to the ME3. The message to the ME3 should be, let Indian airlines grow more then we will give you more seats. Maybe this way the ME3 will be incentivized to help Indian aviation. To be honest, the only recent partnership that helped Indian aviation connectivity was the DL/VS/KL/AF partnership with 9W.

To Vadodara - the "problem" is that no major country in the world doesn't balance low fares with local airline growth and nonstop connectivity. You will notice no one on net is against expanding BA's or LH's bilaterals or adding city pairs. The ME3 want to dump seats in BOM/DEL/BLR (which stops Indian airline growth) AND add a ton of other cities. So essentially Indian airlines have no where to run to get fares where they make money. So Indian airlines stagnate, India loses jobs, India loses nonstop connectivity, etc. India needs better nonstop connectivity to literally most of the world EXCEPT the ME. There should be a balance. I just don't understand why you feel the GOI shouldn't be actively creating an environment where Indian airlines can succeed (so low taxation, good infrastructure and fair competition is needed).

The one good news has been that global airlines have seen what happened when they exited India and needed to the ME3. So with Jet's collapse, we have seen probably the most new airline adds in a long time. From Korea and Japan to Netherlands and UK.
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