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vadodara
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:08 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
To Vadodara - the "problem" is that no major country in the world doesn't balance low fares with local airline growth and nonstop connectivity. You will notice no one on net is against expanding BA's or LH's bilaterals or adding city pairs. The ME3 want to dump seats in BOM/DEL/BLR (which stops Indian airline growth) AND add a ton of other cities. So essentially Indian airlines have no where to run to get fares where they make money. So Indian airlines stagnate, India loses jobs, India loses nonstop connectivity, etc. India needs better nonstop connectivity to literally most of the world EXCEPT the ME. There should be a balance. I just don't understand why you feel the GOI shouldn't be actively creating an environment where Indian airlines can succeed (so low taxation, good infrastructure and fair competition is needed).

The one good news has been that global airlines have seen what happened when they exited India and needed to the ME3. So with Jet's collapse, we have seen probably the most new airline adds in a long time. From Korea and Japan to Netherlands and UK.


Again there is not enough money to build all the needed infrastructure; subsidizing likes of Air India and Jet ensures that the money that could have been used to build runways and ATC got wasted.

Having said that, ensuring connectivity to 2nd and 3rd tier cities where there is already existing infrastructure will go a great way in growing aviation as well as boosting economy.

I get it that some international fares have shot up; but that is not just Jet. EY has also pulled out of most N American cities as well. Not to mention the Pakistan effect as well as now hot/now cold drama over Iran.

There will be capacity addition as you pointed out and the fares will reach the mean.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:57 am

vadodara wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
To Vadodara - the "problem" is that no major country in the world doesn't balance low fares with local airline growth and nonstop connectivity. You will notice no one on net is against expanding BA's or LH's bilaterals or adding city pairs. The ME3 want to dump seats in BOM/DEL/BLR (which stops Indian airline growth) AND add a ton of other cities. So essentially Indian airlines have no where to run to get fares where they make money. So Indian airlines stagnate, India loses jobs, India loses nonstop connectivity, etc. India needs better nonstop connectivity to literally most of the world EXCEPT the ME. There should be a balance. I just don't understand why you feel the GOI shouldn't be actively creating an environment where Indian airlines can succeed (so low taxation, good infrastructure and fair competition is needed).

The one good news has been that global airlines have seen what happened when they exited India and needed to the ME3. So with Jet's collapse, we have seen probably the most new airline adds in a long time. From Korea and Japan to Netherlands and UK.


Again there is not enough money to build all the needed infrastructure; subsidizing likes of Air India and Jet ensures that the money that could have been used to build runways and ATC got wasted.

Having said that, ensuring connectivity to 2nd and 3rd tier cities where there is already existing infrastructure will go a great way in growing aviation as well as boosting economy.

I get it that some international fares have shot up; but that is not just Jet. EY has also pulled out of most N American cities as well. Not to mention the Pakistan effect as well as now hot/now cold drama over Iran.

There will be capacity addition as you pointed out and the fares will reach the mean.


I totally agree about tier 2 & 3 cities. They should have more connectivity. For tier 3 cities, I feel like they would benefit much more with connectivity to BOM, DEL & BLR plus what ever city they have the closest ties to then connectivity to DXB. This helps the domestic economy and ties the country together. As far as infrastructure, it is there in BOM, DEL and BLR. Can it be more efficient, hell yeah. But that is something all Indians need to own. All the checking of boarding passes (I think that is gone), crazy lines what ever. But the airports are designed for easy transfers and connections assuming the human element works. Add to that the fact that all three main terminals are real actively small when compared to global hubs, I would focus on improving the experience there than building anything new there.

As far as subsidizing AI, Jet or anyone, I have never been in that camp. I want reforms on taxation and govt interference and lack of clear rules. That said, I think shatting AI down now would be a mistake. Let any Indian airline get a decent international long haul presence and then shut AI down or sell it. To have AI shut down now would be too disruptive given JEt’s closure.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:40 pm

Excellent article on squabbling about International flying rights. Apparently, the allocated routes are still temporary and Jet officially holds the slot rights until the airline is sold.

Why Is the decision on slot allocation also a “never ending story” (NES).... Heck, NES is regrettably not an exception but normal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economic ... 355277.cms
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:59 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Excellent article on squabbling about International flying rights. Apparently, the allocated routes are still temporary and Jet officially holds the slot rights until the airline is sold.

Why Is the decision on slot allocation also a “never ending story” (NES).... Heck, NES is regrettably not an exception but normal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economic ... 355277.cms


I agree it actually is very disruptive. People say that the GOI is just doing this for optics, but I think it is very damaging to the business environment. The IBC should be very clear on what can or can't happen. Having the IBC to just be the same version like what happened with the banks is pointless. The goal of the IBC should be to sell what is left of Jet to recover as much money back for creditors. To sell any asset of Jet (including its incorporation (or whatever it is called)) it has to be free of debt. You would think creditors would want this. If nothing is sold, then they get zero. So what is the point of saying there is too much debt. Yup no s**t.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:42 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Excellent article on squabbling about International flying rights. Apparently, the allocated routes are still temporary and Jet officially holds the slot rights until the airline is sold.

Why Is the decision on slot allocation also a “never ending story” (NES).... Heck, NES is regrettably not an exception but normal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.economic ... 355277.cms


I agree it actually is very disruptive. People say that the GOI is just doing this for optics, but I think it is very damaging to the business environment. The IBC should be very clear on what can or can't happen. Having the IBC to just be the same version like what happened with the banks is pointless. The goal of the IBC should be to sell what is left of Jet to recover as much money back for creditors. To sell any asset of Jet (including its incorporation (or whatever it is called)) it has to be free of debt. You would think creditors would want this. If nothing is sold, then they get zero. So what is the point of saying there is too much debt. Yup no s**t.


Even the banks are fighting over what should be a clear cut case of what is a security against a loan.
Who in their right mind would bid for Jet since the potential for legal limbo on a spectrum of issues Is almost certain

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.moneyc ... 1.html/amp
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:49 pm

And even more legal chaos
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financ ... 4522/lite/

Jet Airways HQ owner seeks NCLT help for removal of Resolution Professional from premises
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:56 pm

India’s international outbound tourists to grow from 24 M in 2017 to 50 M in 2020

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegr ... rists/amp/
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:25 pm

Face is the boarding pass for VISTARA flyers
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofi ... 353159.cms
 
Bhadra
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:21 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:49 am

IndiGo opens bookings for Kolkata-Yangon sector.
Service to begin on 20th September.
 
mh124
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:24 am

Hi, sorry if this has been discussed before.
Re the new termianl in patna - are there also going to be runway extensions as well? I thought one of the major issues was runway length limiting MTOW/range.
Also - if there's a new terminal at current Patna site, whats the reason for the new terminal at Bihta?

cheers
 
TEMPO
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:03 pm

Ethiopian: Addis Ababa to Bangalore 4 times a week on 737-800s from Oct 27th.

There’s something weird about the timing, though. It looks as though the plane will be sitting in Bangalore for 18 hours. I’d say that’s highly unlikely. An upcoming fifth freedom flight announcement, perhaps?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/
 
TEMPO
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:42 pm

AAI’s first fiscal quarter report shows that the major airports were hurting in terms of passenger count after Jet’s demise. DEL and BOM lost more than 10% as compared to the same quarter last year, MAA lost 2% while CCU was almost flat with a 0.5% gain. HYD (8% increase) and BLR (5% increase) managed to hold on to some growth. Passenger count dropped 0.6% through all airports in the country compared with the first quarter last year.


https://www.aai.aero/sites/default/file ... Annex3.pdf
 
TEMPO
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:06 pm

TEMPO wrote:
Ethiopian: Addis Ababa to Bangalore 4 times a week on 737-800s from Oct 27th.

There’s something weird about the timing, though. It looks as though the plane will be sitting in Bangalore for 18 hours. I’d say that’s highly unlikely. An upcoming fifth freedom flight announcement, perhaps?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/


Addendum from the Ethiopian Airlines thread:

evanb wrote:
Nimish wrote:
The schedules indicate the flight is heading further east from BLR to add another point to the network. Does anyone know what ET is planning?


No, the aircraft and crew will remain in BLR for that time. This schedule allows the flights to connect nicely in the connection banks in ADD. Furthermore, the flight time is about 6.5 hours each way. This would exceed the duty limitations for a single crew to operate the outbound and return leg if it returned immediately. The time on the ground will also allow the same crew to operate the outbound and return.
 
User avatar
unrave
Posts: 2640
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:33 pm

mh124 wrote:
Hi, sorry if this has been discussed before.
Re the new termianl in patna - are there also going to be runway extensions as well? I thought one of the major issues was runway length limiting MTOW/range.
Also - if there's a new terminal at current Patna site, whats the reason for the new terminal at Bihta?

cheers

No, there will be no runway extension at Patna.
Bihta is needed because Patna will run out of capacity soon and there is no space left to expand there.

Patna will - sometime in the future- need a large modern greenfield airport, But is there any land available in a 40 km radius around the city for this?
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
unnayan
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:57 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:06 pm

unrave wrote:
mh124 wrote:
Hi, sorry if this has been discussed before.
Re the new termianl in patna - are there also going to be runway extensions as well? I thought one of the major issues was runway length limiting MTOW/range.
Also - if there's a new terminal at current Patna site, whats the reason for the new terminal at Bihta?

cheers

No, there will be no runway extension at Patna.
Bihta is needed because Patna will run out of capacity soon and there is no space left to expand there.

Patna will - sometime in the future- need a large modern greenfield airport, But is there any land available in a 40 km radius around the city for this?


Definitely it needs a new terminal.. the current one is a shame. The apron area is too small too and there is no scope of growing at site
 
anshabhi
Posts: 2110
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:47 pm

TEMPO wrote:
TEMPO wrote:
Ethiopian: Addis Ababa to Bangalore 4 times a week on 737-800s from Oct 27th.

There’s something weird about the timing, though. It looks as though the plane will be sitting in Bangalore for 18 hours. I’d say that’s highly unlikely. An upcoming fifth freedom flight announcement, perhaps?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/


Addendum from the Ethiopian Airlines thread:

evanb wrote:
Nimish wrote:
The schedules indicate the flight is heading further east from BLR to add another point to the network. Does anyone know what ET is planning?


No, the aircraft and crew will remain in BLR for that time. This schedule allows the flights to connect nicely in the connection banks in ADD. Furthermore, the flight time is about 6.5 hours each way. This would exceed the duty limitations for a single crew to operate the outbound and return leg if it returned immediately. The time on the ground will also allow the same crew to operate the outbound and return.

Me thinks a new set of crew is cheaper than 18 hours of lost B737 hours
 
TEMPO
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:29 pm

anshabhi wrote:
TEMPO wrote:
TEMPO wrote:
Ethiopian: Addis Ababa to Bangalore 4 times a week on 737-800s from Oct 27th.

There’s something weird about the timing, though. It looks as though the plane will be sitting in Bangalore for 18 hours. I’d say that’s highly unlikely. An upcoming fifth freedom flight announcement, perhaps?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/


Addendum from the Ethiopian Airlines thread:

evanb wrote:

No, the aircraft and crew will remain in BLR for that time. This schedule allows the flights to connect nicely in the connection banks in ADD. Furthermore, the flight time is about 6.5 hours each way. This would exceed the duty limitations for a single crew to operate the outbound and return leg if it returned immediately. The time on the ground will also allow the same crew to operate the outbound and return.

Me thinks a new set of crew is cheaper than 18 hours of lost B737 hours


I would add an opportunity cost as well. They can easily add a new SouthEast Asia destination to their network in these 18 hours. RwandAir did that with CAN out of BOM. However, I have seen European 747s and A380s hang around Cape Town and Johannesburg for 12 hours or more of daylight, so someone in aircraft ops finds logic in these decisions.
 
evanb
Posts: 826
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:39 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Me thinks a new set of crew is cheaper than 18 hours of lost B737 hours


It's primarily about getting the timings right for the connecting banks in ADD.
 
vadodara
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:26 pm

Bhadra wrote:
IndiGo opens bookings for Kolkata-Yangon sector.
Service to begin on 20th September.


About time service to East of India picked up!
 
devmapper
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:50 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
vadodara wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
To Vadodara - the "problem" is that no major country in the world doesn't balance low fares with local airline growth and nonstop connectivity. You will notice no one on net is against expanding BA's or LH's bilaterals or adding city pairs. The ME3 want to dump seats in BOM/DEL/BLR (which stops Indian airline growth) AND add a ton of other cities. So essentially Indian airlines have no where to run to get fares where they make money. So Indian airlines stagnate, India loses jobs, India loses nonstop connectivity, etc. India needs better nonstop connectivity to literally most of the world EXCEPT the ME. There should be a balance. I just don't understand why you feel the GOI shouldn't be actively creating an environment where Indian airlines can succeed (so low taxation, good infrastructure and fair competition is needed).

The one good news has been that global airlines have seen what happened when they exited India and needed to the ME3. So with Jet's collapse, we have seen probably the most new airline adds in a long time. From Korea and Japan to Netherlands and UK.


Again there is not enough money to build all the needed infrastructure; subsidizing likes of Air India and Jet ensures that the money that could have been used to build runways and ATC got wasted.

Having said that, ensuring connectivity to 2nd and 3rd tier cities where there is already existing infrastructure will go a great way in growing aviation as well as boosting economy.

I get it that some international fares have shot up; but that is not just Jet. EY has also pulled out of most N American cities as well. Not to mention the Pakistan effect as well as now hot/now cold drama over Iran.

There will be capacity addition as you pointed out and the fares will reach the mean.


I totally agree about tier 2 & 3 cities. They should have more connectivity. For tier 3 cities, I feel like they would benefit much more with connectivity to BOM, DEL & BLR plus what ever city they have the closest ties to then connectivity to DXB. This helps the domestic economy and ties the country together. As far as infrastructure, it is there in BOM, DEL and BLR. Can it be more efficient, hell yeah. But that is something all Indians need to own. All the checking of boarding passes (I think that is gone), crazy lines what ever. But the airports are designed for easy transfers and connections assuming the human element works. Add to that the fact that all three main terminals are real actively small when compared to global hubs, I would focus on improving the experience there than building anything new there.

As far as subsidizing AI, Jet or anyone, I have never been in that camp. I want reforms on taxation and govt interference and lack of clear rules. That said, I think shatting AI down now would be a mistake. Let any Indian airline get a decent international long haul presence and then shut AI down or sell it. To have AI shut down now would be too disruptive given JEt’s closure.


1. ME3 has dumped capacity on the Indian routes in the past when they were given bilateral caps that were multiples of the projected traffic between India and the respective airports. There is enough traffic from most tier-2 cities (and I am including cities like CCU in this) to warrant 2 narrow body flights, if we consider O&D passengers only. the fact that ME3 operate widebody flights to tier 2 cities is solely to carry connecting passengers to Europe, North America, and to a lesser extent Australia. These connecting passengers from India actually subsidize ME3 flights to North America. This has been proven when AI entered and started scaling up SFO, the ME3 were either in retreat, or quickly cancelled plan to enter the market. The day AI starts flights to LAX, the bumbling twins would be gone. It's not the ME3 subsidizing international flights, it's Indian passengers subsidizing ME3 flights, especially the long-haul flights.

2. International connectivity from India has been hampered by the GoI's stupid boneheaded policies. In spite of this AI has expanded international destinations on its own metal and via code-shares. It also has international connector flights from most cities to DEL where you complete your emigration at your local airports and seamlessly connect to the international flights at DEL. What more do you want AI to do, fly daily nonstop 788s to JFK, LHR and FRA from every podunk city? Grow up, most of the towns in India do not have the per-capita wealth to even fill a daily narrowbody to DXB. Having tier 3 airports is a pointless exercise in vanity. Instead of spending money to improve them, I'd rather the GoI spend it instead on building up Navi Mumbai airport quickly and with enough capacity to expand to let private airlines build fortress hubs at the airport.

3. And for all the brilliant financial minds who think shutting down AI would magically free up funds to expand local podunk airports, well, I don't see 6E, UK or SG rushing to offer direct flights to any of the Gulf area airports, what makes you think the ME3 will turn up? I'd love to see AI privatized, because any responsible financially minded management would immediately shut down all the pointless routes AI flies to connect tier 2 and tier 3 cities to DEL and BOM, and all the protestations of local politicians will not bring those routes back. That way, AI can focus on improving profitability by focusing on the international routes and domestic connections that actually make money.
 
VTORD
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:52 pm

TEMPO wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
TEMPO wrote:

Addendum from the Ethiopian Airlines thread:


Me thinks a new set of crew is cheaper than 18 hours of lost B737 hours


I would add an opportunity cost as well. They can easily add a new SouthEast Asia destination to their network in these 18 hours. RwandAir did that with CAN out of BOM. However, I have seen European 747s and A380s hang around Cape Town and Johannesburg for 12 hours or more of daylight, so someone in aircraft ops finds logic in these decisions.

Isn't it the same case with Oz/Nz carriers on the West coast? They arrive morning - noon and hang around till about 10:00 PM - 10:30 PM....
 
TEMPO
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:06 pm

VTORD wrote:
TEMPO wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Me thinks a new set of crew is cheaper than 18 hours of lost B737 hours


I would add an opportunity cost as well. They can easily add a new SouthEast Asia destination to their network in these 18 hours. RwandAir did that with CAN out of BOM. However, I have seen European 747s and A380s hang around Cape Town and Johannesburg for 12 hours or more of daylight, so someone in aircraft ops finds logic in these decisions.

Isn't it the same case with Oz/Nz carriers on the West coast? They arrive morning - noon and hang around till about 10:00 PM - 10:30 PM....


The down time for Oceania aircraft on the US West Coast is not quite as long as in South Africa. Qantas has a JFK tag on SYD-LAX while Air New Zealand continues on to LHR. Other aircraft tend to hang around for about 8 hours, but I agree that the principle is the same ... to suit business travelers.
 
vadodara
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:29 pm

VTORD wrote:
TEMPO wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Me thinks a new set of crew is cheaper than 18 hours of lost B737 hours


I would add an opportunity cost as well. They can easily add a new SouthEast Asia destination to their network in these 18 hours. RwandAir did that with CAN out of BOM. However, I have seen European 747s and A380s hang around Cape Town and Johannesburg for 12 hours or more of daylight, so someone in aircraft ops finds logic in these decisions.

Isn't it the same case with Oz/Nz carriers on the West coast? They arrive morning - noon and hang around till about 10:00 PM - 10:30 PM....


Yep. Qantas just build a brand new A380 maintenance facility at LAX because of the time the aircraft sits there.
 
vadodara
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:36 pm

To devmapper:

Obviously you have emotional attachment to Indian metal. You have not pointed out any factual statement how AI or Jet ensured some specific advantage.

I did a quick look at AAI traffic. #’s.
Airports with highest traffic include likes of Surat, Gauhati, Bhopal, Patna and others.
An even better surprise is to see airports like Gorakhpur, Agatti, etc show up on the map.
So in effect disappearance of Jet Airways has done nothing to slow the growth.
If overall numbers have gone down at BOM/DEL, that capacity will be replaced.

Seems like a very compelling reason to shut Air India down.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:13 pm

This comes out of the blue.

business Standard newspaper is now reporting that Indigo is now interested in Jet!!! If they do bid and get the slots it is curtains for SpiceJet which picked up 40 ex-Jet planes in an attempt to corner ex-Jet slots. Oh, this could get really interesting if Indigo doesn’t back down. But SpiceJet could also play its polo all connections card to stymie things. For instance, the Government could use one promoters allegations against another TO further “investigate” Indigo

“IndiGo Airlines wants to bid for grounded Jet Airways' assets and slots. Jet assets include three B737 planes, 49.9% stake in Jet Privilege, and slots across domestic and international airports”
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:35 am

Soon you can fly to Kuala Lumpur, Kathmandu, Yangon, Hanoi from Guwahati under UDAN scheme

Basically, the Govt is to subsidize foreign travel from Guwahti!

https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... e/1656488/
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:36 am

Sri Lanka announces free visa on arrival for Indian tourists

https://www.financialexpress.com/lifest ... s/1656515/
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:40 am

Emirates to add a fourth flight from Bangalore from October

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... tober.html

Since Dubai has already maxed out its rights to India before the above mentioned flight, how is able to add new flights? Did it cut service to another City in India?
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:44 am

Air India plans to bring all 17 grounded aircraft back into operation by Oct-end

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 31707.html

8 of the 17 aircraft would be put back into operation by the end of August itself. These eight aircraft include four from A320 family, one B747, one B777 and two B787s.

Remaining nine aircraft -- all of them belonging to A320 family -- would be retrieved by the end of the October if the national carrier receives the funds for maintenance in time.

In 2018-19, Air India had made losses of around ₹7,600 crore. By the end of 2018-19, it had a debt burden of around ₹58,300 crore
 
devmapper
Posts: 219
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:45 am

vadodara wrote:
To devmapper:

Obviously you have emotional attachment to Indian metal. You have not pointed out any factual statement how AI or Jet ensured some specific advantage.

I did a quick look at AAI traffic. #’s.
Airports with highest traffic include likes of Surat, Gauhati, Bhopal, Patna and others.
An even better surprise is to see airports like Gorakhpur, Agatti, etc show up on the map.
So in effect disappearance of Jet Airways has done nothing to slow the growth.
If overall numbers have gone down at BOM/DEL, that capacity will be replaced.

Seems like a very compelling reason to shut Air India down.


You mean airports with the highest growth rate? Isn't that just a function of starting from a low base to begin with? If you have 5 passengers the first year and 8 the next, that's a 60% growth. The fact that 9W's demise has not made any dent in the passenger numbers indicate that the markets were overserved anyway.

Sure, I have an emotional attachment to airlines based out of India. I am a person of Indian origin, who happens to care a little bit about the airlines which employ a large number of Indians and pay taxes to the governments in India. I'd also like the airlines in India to get a competitive playing field, especially in the international markets that are be profitable enough to offset the losses generated by the GoI mandating airlines to allocate a certain percentage of their capacity to serve podunk airports.

I do however dislike the attitude amongst a large proportion of Indians that "phoren maal" is better than "desi maal", especially when there is nothing to suggest that is true. Apologies for using colloquial Hindi, but the expressions lose something in translation.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:45 am

Govt planning to privatise 20-25 airports in second phase: AAI chairman

The AAI will decide the names of these airports with annual passenger traffic over 1.5 million soon and recommend them to the Ministry of Civil Aviation
https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/av ... 68203.html
 
EK006
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:49 am

edealinfo wrote:
Emirates to add a fourth flight from Bangalore from October

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... tober.html

Since Dubai has already maxed out its rights to India before the above mentioned flight, how is able to add new flights? Did it cut service to another City in India?

Emirates is reducing service to TRV from 11x to 7x and increasing BLR with a new 3x frequency operated by B772LR
[url]https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285562/emirates-reduces-thiruvananthapuram-service-in-w19/url]
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:52 am

https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-non ... a-flights/

Air Canada Resumes Non Stop Flights To Delhi And Mumbai
 
binayak
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:16 am

edealinfo wrote:
This comes out of the blue.

business Standard newspaper is now reporting that Indigo is now interested in Jet!!! If they do bid and get the slots it is curtains for SpiceJet which picked up 40 ex-Jet planes in an attempt to corner ex-Jet slots. Oh, this could get really interesting if Indigo doesn’t back down. But SpiceJet could also play its polo all connections card to stymie things. For instance, the Government could use one promoters allegations against another TO further “investigate” Indigo

“IndiGo Airlines wants to bid for grounded Jet Airways' assets and slots. Jet assets include three B737 planes, 49.9% stake in Jet Privilege, and slots across domestic and international airports”


It's Indian media man! I won't be surprised if these guys confused " Indigo partners " with " IndiGo airlines " .
IndiGo cannot bid for any airline. Interglobe, it's parent company can. So that shows the legitimacy of the article.
The best preparation for tomorrow is doing your best today
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:50 pm

EK006 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Emirates to add a fourth flight from Bangalore from October

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... tober.html

Since Dubai has already maxed out its rights to India before the above mentioned flight, how is able to add new flights? Did it cut service to another City in India?

Emirates is reducing service to TRV from 11x to 7x and increasing BLR with a new 3x frequency operated by B772LR
[url]https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285562/emirates-reduces-thiruvananthapuram-service-in-w19/url]


Thanks. I guess Emirates realized that if Bangalore continues to grow full steam, and Japan Air Lines, Ethiopian, KLM are "getting in", and BA and AF expanding existing capacity, it must mean something. So, they are chasing higher fares for the lucrative connecting passengers and giving O & D passengers from TRV (probably the labor crowd) the boot. Also, note that Emirates used the switched capacity to expand to BLR and not DEL and not BOM -- I wonder what that implies.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:57 pm

binayak wrote:

1.It's Indian media man! I won't be surprised if these guys confused " Indigo partners " with " IndiGo airlines " .

2. IndiGo cannot bid for any airline. Interglobe, it's parent company can. So that shows the legitimacy of the article.


1. Yes, i have seen the media confusing the two but with reference to this "premium" article for which you need a subscription I think they identified the right company.

2. From a practical purpose, it doesn't matter if Interglobe is technically the potentially bidder (rather than indigo airlines).

Having said that,I think maybe the reporter heard that Indigo/Interglobe is considering bidding as a backstop for the slots and, being the India media, the reporter probably put his own meat and bones to that thought so it could be a story, and one that conveniently got tagged as "premium" by the newspaper.
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:00 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Govt planning to privatise 20-25 airports in second phase: AAI chairman

The AAI will decide the names of these airports with annual passenger traffic over 1.5 million soon and recommend them to the Ministry of Civil Aviation
https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/av ... 68203.html


Does anyone have a list of the airports with annual passenger traffic over 1.5 million (and is 1.5 million the same as 15 lakhs)?
 
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unrave
Posts: 2640
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:37 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:03 pm

edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Govt planning to privatise 20-25 airports in second phase: AAI chairman

The AAI will decide the names of these airports with annual passenger traffic over 1.5 million soon and recommend them to the Ministry of Civil Aviation
https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/av ... 68203.html


Does anyone have a list of the airports with annual passenger traffic over 1.5 million (and is 1.5 million the same as 15 lakhs)?

aai.aero will give you passenger traffic details for each airport.
15 lakhs is indeed 1.5 milliion
Denial of racism is as egregious as racism itself
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:07 pm

Airlines shy away from Kerala’s Jet Airways' routes
Though Kerala-Gulf sector was a profitable route for many airlines, the slots vacated by Jet have no major takers till now in the international sector

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 09995.html
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:09 pm

"Virgin Atlantic has expanded its partnership with Vistara and is targeting passenger feed from tier-II cities to drive growth on India-London routes."

Hmm....for those who said Vistara was married to British Airways and won't get into bed with Virgin

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 259_1.html
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:12 pm

Local airlines tank up on planes, shoot airfares down

https://www.dnaindia.com/business/repor ... wn-2774798

"The airlines have already made their intentions clear about capacity additions despite the apparent ongoing slowdown in the economy. For example, while IndiGo announced that it expected to increase capacity by 30% for this fiscal, rival SpiceJet is looking to add 80% more during the same period. Aviation consultancy firm CAPA in June said that the three carriers, SpiceJet, Air Vistara and AirAsia, are accelerating fleet expansion by 51-66 aircraft above their original plane addition for fiscal 2020, out of which SpiceJet alone accounts for 30-40."
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:33 pm

unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Govt planning to privatise 20-25 airports in second phase: AAI chairman

The AAI will decide the names of these airports with annual passenger traffic over 1.5 million soon and recommend them to the Ministry of Civil Aviation
https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/av ... 68203.html


Does anyone have a list of the airports with annual passenger traffic over 1.5 million (and is 1.5 million the same as 15 lakhs)?

aai.aero will give you passenger traffic details for each airport.
15 lakhs is indeed 1.5 milliion


I tried looking for it and gave up. The site is very badly designed.
 
TEMPO
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:42 pm

edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

Does anyone have a list of the airports with annual passenger traffic over 1.5 million (and is 1.5 million the same as 15 lakhs)?

aai.aero will give you passenger traffic details for each airport.
15 lakhs is indeed 1.5 milliion


I tried looking for it and gave up. The site is very badly designed.


This link should take you directly where you want to go. It shows passenger figures for all operational commercial airports. Note the three different passenger figures: International, Domestic and Total= INT+DOM

https://www.aai.aero/sites/default/file ... Annex3.pdf
 
vadodara
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:48 pm

devmapper wrote:
You mean airports with the highest growth rate? Isn't that just a function of starting from a low base to begin with? If you have 5 passengers the first year and 8 the next, that's a 60% growth. The fact that 9W's demise has not made any dent in the passenger numbers indicate that the markets were overserved anyway.

Sure, I have an emotional attachment to airlines based out of India. I am a person of Indian origin, who happens to care a little bit about the airlines which employ a large number of Indians and pay taxes to the governments in India. I'd also like the airlines in India to get a competitive playing field, especially in the international markets that are be profitable enough to offset the losses generated by the GoI mandating airlines to allocate a certain percentage of their capacity to serve podunk airports.

I do however dislike the attitude amongst a large proportion of Indians that "phoren maal" is better than "desi maal", especially when there is nothing to suggest that is true. Apologies for using colloquial Hindi, but the expressions lose something in translation.


Seems like your are agreeing with my assertion
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:52 pm

TEMPO wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
unrave wrote:
aai.aero will give you passenger traffic details for each airport.
15 lakhs is indeed 1.5 milliion


I tried looking for it and gave up. The site is very badly designed.


This link should take you directly where you want to go. It shows passenger figures for all operational commercial airports. Note the three different passenger figures: International, Domestic and Total= INT+DOM

https://www.aai.aero/sites/default/file ... Annex3.pdf


Are there any documents with annual numbers. I am trying to ascertain the airports at which more than 15 lakh passengers transit annually and therefore would be eligible for privatization.
 
TEMPO
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 2:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:02 pm

edealinfo wrote:
TEMPO wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

I tried looking for it and gave up. The site is very badly designed.


This link should take you directly where you want to go. It shows passenger figures for all operational commercial airports. Note the three different passenger figures: International, Domestic and Total= INT+DOM

https://www.aai.aero/sites/default/file ... Annex3.pdf


Are there any documents with annual numbers. I am trying to ascertain the airports at which more than 15 lakh passengers transit annually and therefore would be eligible for privatization.


Same site, one level up in the file tree. The drop down box gives you every calendar year since 2010. Remember to keep looking for the difference between YTD calendar and YTD fiscal year. Government of India statistics always confuse a reader. In these files, annual numbers are best obtained by looking at the March figures for each year, not the December figure.

https://aai.aero/en/business-opportunit ... affic-news
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:32 pm

edealinfo wrote:
EK006 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Emirates to add a fourth flight from Bangalore from October

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2019/ ... tober.html

Since Dubai has already maxed out its rights to India before the above mentioned flight, how is able to add new flights? Did it cut service to another City in India?

Emirates is reducing service to TRV from 11x to 7x and increasing BLR with a new 3x frequency operated by B772LR
[url]https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285562/emirates-reduces-thiruvananthapuram-service-in-w19/url]


Thanks. I guess Emirates realized that if Bangalore continues to grow full steam, and Japan Air Lines, Ethiopian, KLM are "getting in", and BA and AF expanding existing capacity, it must mean something. So, they are chasing higher fares for the lucrative connecting passengers and giving O & D passengers from TRV (probably the labor crowd) the boot. Also, note that Emirates used the switched capacity to expand to BLR and not DEL and not BOM -- I wonder what that implies.


I don’t think it says anything about BOM/DEL. From BOM EK is already 5 daily wide bodies plus fly Dubai. What else do they need there. They already capture all the premium traffic they can with local airlines fighting for low fare india origin O&D. What this shows is that BOM/DEL/BLR seem to be where it is at. With JEt going away foreign airlines are cementing them selves in India’s three strongest markets. This will make it harder for an indian airline to emerge to really compete with them. That said the Indian market is so large, eventually an Indian airline will emegrge with a strong international network. But it does show where the profits are and how tier 2/3 cities benefited with a strong Jet. Jet had a strong network from Kerela for instance which foreign and domestic airlines aren’t rushing to replace.
 
blrBird
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:39 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:44 pm

Bhadra wrote:
IndiGo opens bookings for Kolkata-Yangon sector.
Service to begin on 20th September.



Nice to see this opening up by Indian carrier!
from star dust....
 
blrBird
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:39 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:48 pm

TEMPO wrote:
Ethiopian: Addis Ababa to Bangalore 4 times a week on 737-800s from Oct 27th.

There’s something weird about the timing, though. It looks as though the plane will be sitting in Bangalore for 18 hours. I’d say that’s highly unlikely. An upcoming fifth freedom flight announcement, perhaps?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -oct-2019/


Out of left field.. cool! Didn't see this happening now, was thinking still few years later.
from star dust....
 
edealinfo
Posts: 1714
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2019

Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:52 pm

Kolkata incident: SpiceJet did not follow basic maintenance practices, says DGCA report

https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/kolka ... 066511.htm
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