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N14AZ
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AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:23 am

One missing part of AF66's engine has been found. Amazing:
Image

Source: https://twitter.com/bea_aero

Amazing feat!
How they found it: https://eng.geus.dk/about/news/news-arc ... peditions/

Cheers
N14AZ
 
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zeke
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:35 am

No idea how they located a part so deep in ice, and then managed to recover it in what looks like a very remote location.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:57 am

This is an incredible recovery effort. Side note: I've always assumed part of the reason Air Greenland paints their aircraft bright red is to help locate parts easier if they end up on the Greenland ice.
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N14AZ
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:08 pm

zeke wrote:
No idea how they located a part so deep in ice, and then managed to recover it in what looks like a very remote location.

From the GEUS' article:

“For this year’s search we invited Polar Research Equipment and their FrostyBoy robot to help us work safely in the crevasse field. We also invited the Aarhus University HydroGeophysics Group to join us with their Transient ElectroMagnetic instrument (TEM) which is normally used for mapping groundwater. Aarhus built a custom version, SnowTEM, that we could tow by snowmobile over the ice. Both FrostyBoy and the SnowTEM detected the part,” says Kenneth Mankoff.

Source: https://eng.geus.dk/about/news/news-arc ... peditions/

May I introduce? FrostyBoy:

Image

BWIAirport wrote:
This is an incredible recovery effort.

I agree, they should do more of this stuff ... ;-)
Image
:cold:
 
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zeke
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:10 pm

I love the name FrostyBoy :)

Could be made into a good beer also ;)
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Olddog
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:28 pm

Did not know than the BEA was still funding theses searches.
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
minilinde
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:30 pm

Great story, thanks for the links!
 
Strato2
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:38 pm

Maybe the French should be asked to help with the MH370.
 
JamesAlice
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:50 pm

Is the sole purpose of looking for the piece so that they can identify why the engine failed?
 
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zeke
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:56 pm

JamesAlice wrote:
Is the sole purpose of looking for the piece so that they can identify why the engine failed?


Yes, by looking at where the fracture started they can determine the exact failure mode.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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N14AZ
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:56 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Maybe the French should be asked to help with the MH370.

As a matter of fact, the French Air Transport Gendarmerie is the only institution that is still actively working on MH370.
Source from October 2018: https://www.lemonde.fr/asie-pacifique/a ... _3216.html

I asked about some news about their investiagtions in this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1424955&start=50 but the discussion took another direction ;-)
 
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Revelation
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:17 pm

Closer view of what must be a very valuable find from BEA via FG:

Image

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -sn-459399
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Flanker7
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:51 pm

zeke wrote:
I love the name FrostyBoy :)

Could be made into a good beer also ;)


I would order a beer with that name on a hot day :lol:
Flying blue only if possible
 
workhorse
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:22 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
This is an incredible recovery effort. Side note: I've always assumed part of the reason Air Greenland paints their aircraft bright red is to help locate parts easier if they end up on the Greenland ice.


Exactly.

In USSR/Russia, the northern division of Aeroflot had a special livery too, where the traditional Aeroflot blue was replaced by red.

Don't know about Canada, but wouldn't be surprised if something similar existed there as well.
 
Theseus
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:29 pm

Amazing story and pictures! Thanks a lot for sharing. I hope we will hear more on the root cause thanks to this recovery.
 
gregpodpl
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:01 pm

Impressive effort, and great pictures. This is how it should be done.
I'm also interested in who was funding it.

Quote from: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air- ... gine-part/
"That part will now be sent to the USA to be examined by American engine manufacturer Engine Alliance under the supervision of the French Bureau of Enquiry and Analysis for Civil Aviation Safety or BEA (Bureau d’Enquêtes & d’Analyses)."
 
richierich
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:06 pm

zeke wrote:
I love the name FrostyBoy :)

Could be made into a good beer also ;)


Frosty McFrostface
None shall pass!!!!
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:03 pm

It's an amazing feet of investigation to be able to find the fan in such a short time period after it flew off the aircraft cruising at altitude at a high speed.
After AF447's FDR and CVR recovery from a depth of 4000 meters, the French BEA can certainly be praised for their amazing recovery efforts.
 
Antarius
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:26 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
It's an amazing feet of investigation to be able to find the fan in such a short time period after it flew off the aircraft cruising at altitude at a high speed.
After AF447's FDR and CVR recovery from a depth of 4000 meters, the French BEA can certainly be praised for their amazing recovery efforts.


Agreed. This will be helpful to ensure any future incidents are mitigated.
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Bricktop
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:56 pm

What a breathtakingly impressive feat!
 
dr1980
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:24 pm

That is definitely the coolest seen I’ve seen today (no pun intended).
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RWA380
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:33 pm

I dig frosty-boy & it just seems like I should have a need for one, those wheels seem like they provide a smooth slide of a ride. My ATV's might get jealous. On topic, I am once again amazed at what we can do as a species & these newer edge technologies will continue to bring answers from the past, into the future.
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:50 pm

N14AZ wrote:
zeke wrote:
No idea how they located a part so deep in ice, and then managed to recover it in what looks like a very remote location.

BWIAirport wrote:
This is an incredible recovery effort.

I agree, they should do more of this stuff ... ;-)
Image
:cold:


Image
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LaunchDetected
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:42 am

Looks like a Great Old Ones artefact, i wouldn't touch that thing.

Congrats to the BEA and everyone involved, the technical report of the previous researches is really interesting:

https://www.bea.aero/uploads/tx_elyextendttnews/F-HPJE_TECHNICAL_REPORT_05.pdf
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Catfry
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:14 am

Reading that report from the BEA above, It does seem kind of hilarious that ONERA was contracted to participate in the aerial SAR campaign, based just on a quick test of detection of a blade and a hub positioned on a table on a parking lot. "nono, no time to do a proper test to see if our equipment can actually register engine parts under a couple metres of snow, I'm sure we'll be able to do it, let's just sign the contracts now".
Later on in Greenland and they discover that they can't even see the test hub when buried.

Admittedly they write later on that after refinement and heavy post-processing of the data after several months, they can see the test mass. however I suspect that when you really finely adjust your algorithms to find particular signals that you know must be there, you end up with algorithms that are good at finding just that exact mass and shape at that precise depth, and all else goes out of focus.
It doesn't seem clear wether the SAR search did much at all except find ice lenses, and the success is down to the surface equipment ground penetrating radar and the transient electromagnetic searcher.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:10 pm

Reminds me of the StarTrek episode were they dig up The Borg from the permafrost.
 
Catfry
Posts: 30
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:35 am

There's video of the part being found and dug up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPcSU0A1G9w
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: AF66: missing engine part found in Greenlandic ice

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:23 pm

My first thought on this was United 232's center engine piece that wasn't found until the corn harvest.

An impressive piece of technology that functioned exactly as it was supposed to. Excellent job!

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