dmstorm22
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:23 am

atcsundevil wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
I can assure you that Thursday and Sunday nights are the busiest evenings of the week on the east coast. When it comes to DCA, nothing is "minimal impact". Granted it's not as sensitive as LGA, but it's close.


True, but July 4th is not a normal Thursday evening.

Right, I didn't mean to imply that it would be a normal Thursday, but there will most certainly be an impact on airlines, passengers, and controllers. Considering we still haven't been formally notified of any plans or impacts, I don't believe things will ultimately be as smooth as they might have been had there been more prior planning.


Fully agree.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:24 am

ual763 wrote:

Gotta love how everyone is saying we won’t make his political, yet in their replies, they literally make it political by their choice of words... But anyways, the flyovers/speech/fireworks have been announced for a while now. I’m sure the airlines/airports/atc knew before now. It is just hitting the public arena now. The airlines that fly in at that time of night will just delay their flights and business will go on as always. It’s not like DCA is a big connecting airport. Most business are closed that day anyways. And people flying out at that time of night have already missed the intl. banks at other Eastern airports. So this won’t affect anyone that badly. This isn’t the first time DCA has been delayed due to Independence Day celebrations and it won’t be the last. Life will go on. No need for people to be physically “sick”... Get over it and enjoy the holiday (and the awesome air show too)!! I know I will be!


My love of aviation does not supercede my love of decency. I know your line was directed at me. Sorry for my convictions.
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
Bradin
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:27 am

atcsundevil wrote:
LovePrunesAnet wrote:
It's only 90 mins on a non-busy travel evening. Minimal impact. Eyeroll

I can assure you that Thursday and Sunday nights are the busiest evenings of the week on the east coast. When it comes to DCA, nothing is "minimal impact". Granted it's not as sensitive as LGA, but it's close.


At DCA, it was always a challenge when I flew in for work on Sundays, Thursdays, and Fridays because people were consistently flying in and out from all over the place for work.

What I'm thinking is that most people are probably not flying in at all this week and working remotely OR doing a Sunday/Wednesday schedule this week.
 
dochawk2
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:33 am

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
It's only 90 mins on a non-busy travel evening. Minimal impact. Eyeroll

ditto, double the eyeroll.
God, give us wings to fly!
 
D L X
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:51 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Just a reminder to users — keep politics out of this thread. Users posting political comments may be warned or banned. Keep the discussion on topic.

✈️ atcsundevil


Feel free to disagree with me here, but you’ll be wrong.
Under no circumstances is shutting down the nation’s 25th busiest airport without an emergency ok.
Cancellations will stack up, not just in and out of DCA.
Knowing that the weather is going to suck too means this will be an even bigger waste.
They’re also moving the fireworks closer to DCA, causing a much greater disruption.
Realize this: the locals love July 4, but this year, we are bearing a great burden.
Usually the locals gather at DCA, get our boats on the river, and really soak it all in.
Maybe not this year.
Politics has gotten in the way.
 
D L X
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:02 am

I’ve flown in and out of DCA on July 4 a number of times. It’s not as busy as the average weekday but it’s busier than a Sunday.

To all the people who aren’t from here, telling us to suck it up, or telling us that it’s no big deal, shhhhhh. Listen. We might have a better understanding of the situation that people from elsewhere.

This is a significantly different event for DCA than in every year previous, and it is extremely disruptive to plans. The people who planned this showed they had zero regard for the people that live here and the people who normally attend this event.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:12 am

This thread is quickly becoming political.

All politics aside, there was a greater operational impact from today’s line of +TSRA that went through DCA between 1900-2000 EDT than anything the closures scheduled for Thursday will have.

Let’s be honest and not spin the clousres into some pretend end of world event.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:15 am

Regardless of politics, can't we all agree that there should have been WAY more than two days' warning?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:16 am

D L X wrote:
I’ve flown in and out of DCA on July 4 a number of times. It’s not as busy as the average weekday but it’s busier than a Sunday.

To all the people who aren’t from here, telling us to suck it up, or telling us that it’s no big deal, shhhhhh. Listen. We might have a better understanding of the situation that people from elsewhere.

This is a significantly different event for DCA than in every year previous, and it is extremely disruptive to plans. The people who planned this showed they had zero regard for the people that live here and the people who normally attend this event.


I’ve worked the ramp at DCA on July 4th and am local. July 4th evening is slower than any Sunday evening not named Christmas or New Year’s Eve.

Let’s keep the spin zone under control.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:19 am

D L X wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Just a reminder to users — keep politics out of this thread. Users posting political comments may be warned or banned. Keep the discussion on topic.

✈️ atcsundevil


Feel free to disagree with me here, but you’ll be wrong.
Under no circumstances is shutting down the nation’s 25th busiest airport without an emergency ok.
Cancellations will stack up, not just in and out of DCA.
Knowing that the weather is going to suck too means this will be an even bigger waste.
They’re also moving the fireworks closer to DCA, causing a much greater disruption.
Realize this: the locals love July 4, but this year, we are bearing a great burden.
Usually the locals gather at DCA, get our boats on the river, and really soak it all in.
Maybe not this year.
Politics has gotten in the way.

I'm not arguing that politics have most certainly become entwined here — that warning was intended to apply to distinctly political comments. Some users just can't seem to help themselves, regardless of which side they stand on the issue. Users are free to debate the politics behind the event, provided it's done in the Non Aviation Forum. On a personal level as a DC native and resident, I would much prefer to see events like this be apolitical, just as I believe most of us prefer this forum to remain as apolitical as possible. The impacts this event will have on DCA will be significant given the inability to plan ahead for the disruption. Some users may disagree, but they won't be stuck on airplanes in holding stacks or sitting in front of a radar scope, so it's easy to minimize the effects of something when it's guaranteed not to affect them.
 
ual763
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:20 am

D L X wrote:
I’ve flown in and out of DCA on July 4 a number of times. It’s not as busy as the average weekday but it’s busier than a Sunday.

To all the people who aren’t from here, telling us to suck it up, or telling us that it’s no big deal, shhhhhh. Listen. We might have a better understanding of the situation that people from elsewhere.

This is a significantly different event for DCA than in every year previous, and it is extremely disruptive to plans. The people who planned this showed they had zero regard for the people that live here and the people who normally attend this event.


I also live here. I respect your opinion, but it doesn’t make you the top authority on the matter, as it does not make me the top authority either. You’re blowing this way out of proportion. If it disrupts your plans SOO very much, stay home. But for the tens of thousands of people who will be flocking to our capital to celebrate our great nation (and enjoy some kickass airplane/fireworks action), this is going to be a 4th of July for the history books! Again, it is only 90 minutes. At that time of night, there won’t be anyone scrambling to make any connections in DCA, nobody will be scrambling to get to a business meeting, and nobody will miss any international connections at that time of night. Finally, the closure more than likely won’t even last the full 90 minutes. The 90 minutes is just for planning purposes only. Just like any other presidential TFR. After the flyovers and President Trump’s speech is over, the closure will lift. I’m willing to bet DCA won’t even be closed for a full 45 minutes. This is not the end of the World.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:23 am

DocLightning wrote:
Regardless of politics, can't we all agree that there should have been WAY more than two days' warning?


Trump tweeted the flyovers before today. Common sense dictates there would be airspace restrictions. Hard to think the airlines weren’t working with the FAA before the public announcement to deal with the impact. And again, operationally, the impact is very small.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:48 am

In years past, the Boston Pops did a July 4th concert at the Eggshell. We did a flyover in a C-5 and the timing and arrangements with BOS tower were complicated, it did for about ten minutes interrupt ops, but it’s the major summer holiday. In two weeks it’ll be forgotten. If you in the Versailles on the Potomac, stop taking it so seriously.

GF
 
D L X
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:49 am

ual763 wrote:
D L X wrote:
I’ve flown in and out of DCA on July 4 a number of times. It’s not as busy as the average weekday but it’s busier than a Sunday.

To all the people who aren’t from here, telling us to suck it up, or telling us that it’s no big deal, shhhhhh. Listen. We might have a better understanding of the situation that people from elsewhere.

This is a significantly different event for DCA than in every year previous, and it is extremely disruptive to plans. The people who planned this showed they had zero regard for the people that live here and the people who normally attend this event.


I also live here. I respect your opinion, but it doesn’t make you the top authority on the matter, as it does not make me the top authority either. You’re blowing this way out of proportion.

Not claiming to be the top authority. I'm suggesting to the non-Washingtonians to listen to us instead of telling us how we feel.

(And also, being from here, you are aware that DCA is a hub for AA, right? I know you're a United guy, but...)

ual763 wrote:
If it disrupts your plans SOO very much, stay home.

I am. For the first time in while, I will neither be on a plane or on The Mall on July 4. I also will not be out on the Potomac, because they've cordoned that off also. I'll be smoking a brisket at home instead.

ual763 wrote:
But for the tens of thousands of people who will be flocking to our capital to celebrate our great nation (and enjoy some kickass airplane/fireworks action), this is going to be a 4th of July for the history books!

No one is going to be flocking to DC since they JUST announced that they were doing it. That wasn't even enough time to plan a Blue Angels show (and set up the appropriate safety zones like they do for San Francisco Fleet Week), so it will only be a fly by.

ual763 wrote:
At that time of night, there won’t be anyone scrambling to make any connections in DCA, nobody will be scrambling to get to a business meeting, and nobody will miss any international connections at that time of night.
That time of night will by 6:15 - 7:45. Sunset is two hours later. As for nobody scrambling, tell that to the people booked on the flights that were supposed to arrive and depart during that time, which up until this week, was well before the fireworks. It's not up to you to tell them that they are not inconvenienced.

You need to understand -- I LOVE the military, and I LOVE military aviation. This was poorly planned and without care to those it would impact.
 
alasizon
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:53 am

Babyshark wrote:
At delta we run 12 flights a day between atlanta and dca. On july 4th we have 7 and only 1 in that window. It probably inconveniences very few, their flight will be delayed like an irop. Theyll be okay.

Your political persuasion will determine how you handle it and I'm pretty sure you'll believe yours right and anyone on the other side is wrong.

But imho let america celebrate July 4th. Go big. Screw dca.

I fly to dca, i know it like the back of my hand and it's a frustrating place to operate in and out. Having it shut down is fine by me. Too bad congress is already out of town.


During this time frame, AA is running 46 flights (31 of which are arrivals into DCA) so its not as small of an impact as you would think.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
Antarius
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:06 am

ual763 wrote:
D L X wrote:
I’ve flown in and out of DCA on July 4 a number of times. It’s not as busy as the average weekday but it’s busier than a Sunday.

To all the people who aren’t from here, telling us to suck it up, or telling us that it’s no big deal, shhhhhh. Listen. We might have a better understanding of the situation that people from elsewhere.

This is a significantly different event for DCA than in every year previous, and it is extremely disruptive to plans. The people who planned this showed they had zero regard for the people that live here and the people who normally attend this event.


I also live here. I respect your opinion, but it doesn’t make you the top authority on the matter, as it does not make me the top authority either. You’re blowing this way out of proportion. If it disrupts your plans SOO very much, stay home. But for the tens of thousands of people who will be flocking to our capital to celebrate our great nation (and enjoy some kickass airplane/fireworks action), this is going to be a 4th of July for the history books! Again, it is only 90 minutes. At that time of night, there won’t be anyone scrambling to make any connections in DCA, nobody will be scrambling to get to a business meeting, and nobody will miss any international connections at that time of night. Finally, the closure more than likely won’t even last the full 90 minutes. The 90 minutes is just for planning purposes only. Just like any other presidential TFR. After the flyovers and President Trump’s speech is over, the closure will lift. I’m willing to bet DCA won’t even be closed for a full 45 minutes. This is not the end of the World.


That old saying about winners and acting like you've been there? Feels like the actions of some random country with no functioning economy or transport industry ordering a 777 and launching service to JFK to prove something.

Not sure who we are dropping our pants, taking out a ruler and showing off for.
Last edited by Antarius on Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:08 am

alasizon wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
At delta we run 12 flights a day between atlanta and dca. On july 4th we have 7 and only 1 in that window. It probably inconveniences very few, their flight will be delayed like an irop. Theyll be okay.

Your political persuasion will determine how you handle it and I'm pretty sure you'll believe yours right and anyone on the other side is wrong.

But imho let america celebrate July 4th. Go big. Screw dca.

I fly to dca, i know it like the back of my hand and it's a frustrating place to operate in and out. Having it shut down is fine by me. Too bad congress is already out of town.


During this time frame, AA is running 46 flights (31 of which are arrivals into DCA) so its not as small of an impact as you would think.


The impact from today’s thunderstorms at DCA was larger and PM thunderstorms are quite common in the DC area from May-August.

Again, operationally, the impact is very small.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Antarius
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:11 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
At delta we run 12 flights a day between atlanta and dca. On july 4th we have 7 and only 1 in that window. It probably inconveniences very few, their flight will be delayed like an irop. Theyll be okay.

Your political persuasion will determine how you handle it and I'm pretty sure you'll believe yours right and anyone on the other side is wrong.

But imho let america celebrate July 4th. Go big. Screw dca.

I fly to dca, i know it like the back of my hand and it's a frustrating place to operate in and out. Having it shut down is fine by me. Too bad congress is already out of town.


During this time frame, AA is running 46 flights (31 of which are arrivals into DCA) so its not as small of an impact as you would think.


The impact from today’s thunderstorms at DCA is larger and PM thunderstorms are quite common in the DC area from May-August.

Again, operationally, the impact is very small.


Glad we're setting the bar as low as "not as bad as a big thunderstorm"
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:16 am

Antarius wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
alasizon wrote:

During this time frame, AA is running 46 flights (31 of which are arrivals into DCA) so its not as small of an impact as you would think.


The impact from today’s thunderstorms at DCA is larger and PM thunderstorms are quite common in the DC area from May-August.

Again, operationally, the impact is very small.


Glad we're setting the bar as low as "not as bad as a big thunderstorm"


Just not setting the hype as high as a 9/11 type shutdown.

Somehow I believe the NAS will survive Thursday night.

Is this politics or operational? Have a feeling this is going to non-av soon.
 
D L X
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:35 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
At delta we run 12 flights a day between atlanta and dca. On july 4th we have 7 and only 1 in that window. It probably inconveniences very few, their flight will be delayed like an irop. Theyll be okay.

Your political persuasion will determine how you handle it and I'm pretty sure you'll believe yours right and anyone on the other side is wrong.

But imho let america celebrate July 4th. Go big. Screw dca.

I fly to dca, i know it like the back of my hand and it's a frustrating place to operate in and out. Having it shut down is fine by me. Too bad congress is already out of town.


During this time frame, AA is running 46 flights (31 of which are arrivals into DCA) so its not as small of an impact as you would think.


The impact from today’s thunderstorms at DCA was larger and PM thunderstorms are quite common in the DC area from May-August.

Again, operationally, the impact is very small.

Wait...

Antarius just gave you hard data, that AA *alone* will have 46 operations during this period, and you still think it's a "very small" impact? I agree with Antarius. You should set the bar higher than "not as bad as a thunderstorm."
But second, you keep repeating this as it if were true. It isn't.

The storm today hit around 7:15. I see takeoffs and landings between 7:15 and 8:45. Certainly there were delays today, but DCA did not close. So, how is a thunderstorm worse than a 90-minute closure?
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:49 am

D L X wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
alasizon wrote:

During this time frame, AA is running 46 flights (31 of which are arrivals into DCA) so its not as small of an impact as you would think.


The impact from today’s thunderstorms at DCA was larger and PM thunderstorms are quite common in the DC area from May-August.

Again, operationally, the impact is very small.

Wait...

Antarius just gave you hard data, that AA *alone* will have 46 operations during this period, and you still think it's a "very small" impact? I agree with Antarius. You should set the bar higher than "not as bad as a thunderstorm."
But second, you keep repeating this as it if were true. It isn't.

The storm today hit around 7:15. I see takeoffs and landings between 7:15 and 8:45. Certainly there were delays today, but DCA did not close. So, how is a thunderstorm worse than a 90-minute closure?


Are the airlines cancelling flights or delaying them like today? More people are traveling today then on July 4th. Thursday is not a normal travel day due to the holiday, yet some are trying to portray it as so. Today’s impact is greater, for sure.

Some of you act as Thursday’s event will have the impact of 9/11 multiplied by the effects of the last 20 major snowstorms in North America.

Operational or political?

The NAS will survive.
 
D L X
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:33 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
D L X wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

The impact from today’s thunderstorms at DCA was larger and PM thunderstorms are quite common in the DC area from May-August.

Again, operationally, the impact is very small.

Wait...

Antarius just gave you hard data, that AA *alone* will have 46 operations during this period, and you still think it's a "very small" impact? I agree with Antarius. You should set the bar higher than "not as bad as a thunderstorm."
But second, you keep repeating this as it if were true. It isn't.

The storm today hit around 7:15. I see takeoffs and landings between 7:15 and 8:45. Certainly there were delays today, but DCA did not close. So, how is a thunderstorm worse than a 90-minute closure?


Are the airlines cancelling flights or delaying them like today? More people are traveling today then on July 4th. Thursday is not a normal travel day due to the holiday, yet some are trying to portray it as so. Today’s impact is greater, for sure.

Some of you act as Thursday’s event will have the impact of 9/11 multiplied by the effects of the last 20 major snowstorms in North America.

Operational or political?

The NAS will survive.

Well, it's good that you're backing away from saying the storms today will be worse, but you are the ONLY person mentioning 9/11. That's quite the straw man argument you're putting on. It's also a straw man saying that more people are traveling today than will on thursday. No one is arguing otherwise. But you keep acting like DCA would be a ghost town on thursday. That's far from the truth. And if it were true, AA wouldn't be flying a dense schedule that day. (Unlike the knowledge of the closure which just came down today, AA has known that Thursday will be a holiday for quite some time. Years even.)

Finally, why do you compare acts of God to things within human control in the first place? It's like not caring about a murder because people die anyway at some point.
 
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PW100
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:54 am

Two days advance notice?!? Does 4th of July comes as unexpectedly as something like a major February blizzard?

It's not like this is the first 4th of July ever . . .
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
rjmf22
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:49 am

Will the flights that were supposed to be arriving during that window be downright cancelled, or divert to IAD or BWI?
United Airlines
 
dtw9
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:04 pm

How many of you making comments on this will be personally impacted. Answer. None. How many of you think you’re the worlds policeman and need to stick your nose into something that doesn’t affect you. Answer. Most. I hate to think of how most of your heads would have exploded in the early 60’s when the Airforce would shut down all of the airspace from the Arctic circle to Mexico for up to 12 hours for operation Sky shield. I’m sure as you go through your festivities on the 4th that you’ll stop at 6:15 and have a moment of silence for the people who’s lives will be severely impacted by the horrible 90 minute shutdown of one airport in the US.NOT!!!!
 
D L X
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:24 pm

dtw9 wrote:
How many of you making comments on this will be personally impacted. Answer. None.


Case in point. This Detroiter doesn’t think anyone actually lives in Washington.
 
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ChaseCLT
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:25 pm

You can’t prevent thunderstorms or natural events, etc. it happens whether you like it or not.

There doesn’t have to be a flyover. Trump deciding he wants a flyover is a choice. A severe thunderstorm is not a choice.

Anyway. Looks like there are thunderstorms for DC that day anyway.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:54 pm

The weather forecast also call for storms in the area. It will be interesting to see if these have an effect as well and if the shut downs have more of an impact.
 
sw733
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:20 pm

dtw9 wrote:
How many of you making comments on this will be personally impacted. Answer. None.


That's not quite how the world works. People are allowed to have opinions and make statements about things that may or may not directly impact them at that moment.
 
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GCT64
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:28 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Regardless of politics, can't we all agree that there should have been WAY more than two days' warning?


That's the bit that amazes me, surely it would have been much better to have given a lot more notice?
Referring to a post above, the RAF 100th anniversary did close Heathrow as the whole flypast went through it's airspace (and it was a normal July travel day i.e. very busy), but the closure was arranged at far more than 2 days notice. IIRC correctly most of the details (route, timings, NOTAMs etc.) were publicly known about 3-4 weeks ahead of the flypast.
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D L X
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:36 pm

GCT64 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Regardless of politics, can't we all agree that there should have been WAY more than two days' warning?


That's the bit that amazes me, surely it would have been much better to have given a lot more notice?
Referring to a post above, the RAF 100th anniversary did close Heathrow as the whole flypast went through it's airspace (and it was a normal July travel day i.e. very busy), but the closure was arranged at far more than 2 days notice. IIRC correctly most of the details (route, timings, NOTAMs etc.) were publicly known about 3-4 weeks ahead of the flypast.


More notice would have fixed literally everything for me, vis a vis the use of the airport. (I'm still very annoyed that I will be prevented from doing my normal July 4 routines, but those aren't aviation related. It's not making news outside DC, but it is not looking like they are setting up an enjoyable way to do this. Moving the fireworks launching spot has ruined a lot of plans.)
 
AA94
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:45 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
At delta we run 12 flights a day between atlanta and dca. On july 4th we have 7 and only 1 in that window. It probably inconveniences very few, their flight will be delayed like an irop. Theyll be okay.

Your political persuasion will determine how you handle it and I'm pretty sure you'll believe yours right and anyone on the other side is wrong.

But imho let america celebrate July 4th. Go big. Screw dca.

I fly to dca, i know it like the back of my hand and it's a frustrating place to operate in and out. Having it shut down is fine by me. Too bad congress is already out of town.

Send'em to IAD...


Nothing like booking a flight into a supremely convenient city center airport with decent public transit links and ending up in suburban Virginia hell 30 miles away ...
 
AA94
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:37 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:51 pm

dtw9 wrote:
How many of you making comments on this will be personally impacted. Answer. None. How many of you think you’re the worlds policeman and need to stick your nose into something that doesn’t affect you. Answer. Most. I hate to think of how most of your heads would have exploded in the early 60’s when the Airforce would shut down all of the airspace from the Arctic circle to Mexico for up to 12 hours for operation Sky shield. I’m sure as you go through your festivities on the 4th that you’ll stop at 6:15 and have a moment of silence for the people who’s lives will be severely impacted by the horrible 90 minute shutdown of one airport in the US.NOT!!!!


There will be people affected, whether they are on this forum or not. Someone upthread posted that there were to be 63 arrivals and 37 departures in the closure period. If we assume an average of 100 passengers per flight, that's 10,000 travelers impacted, not to mention crews, gate agents, ATC, airline system operations personnel, the list goes on. Let's not pretend this situation will be without consequences.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2141
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:57 pm

LovePrunesAnet wrote:
It's only 90 mins on a non-busy travel evening. Minimal impact. Eyeroll


I'm totally disagreeing with you but the industry is seeing a lot of changes in the publics travel patterns on holidays.
Holidays like Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas, airports across this country use to be dead not a whole lot of traffic. However, that has changed and so have the airlines schedules. Traveling on a holiday can be 5%or more cheaper than traveling in the days before or immediately after the holiday. Sometimes people will celebrate the holiday a day early so family and friends can take advantage of the savings if they book a ticket on the holiday. So while airlines are not running their full schedule it isn't the skeleton schedule it use to be years ago when very few people traveled on the actual holiday. Take Thanksgiving for instance airlines are running a full schedule the morning of Thanksgiving, it starts to taper down around 1pm eastern time through 12pm eastern Black Friday after 12pm eastern Black friday its full steam ahead for at least 20 hours. Christmas, airports are empty Christmas morning things start to pick up (the schedule picks up tremendously) around 2-3pm eastern and airlines are like UA are scheduling a full banks of flights out of places like ORD at 11pm, 12am and 1am on Christmas day. Just 5-6 years ago it was unheard of but the travel patterns behaviors have changed and so to have airlines schedules.
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1729
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:05 pm

KFTG wrote:
Hoping for rain.


Your hope may be fulfilled. It tends to have rain, buckets full on that day :D
 
jubguy3
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:18 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:18 pm

KFTG wrote:
Hoping for rain.


It’s looking around a 40 percent chance during the parade... with Google anything above 20% usually means light showers or above.
 
n92r03
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:46 pm

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:26 pm

For those so unfortunate to be stuck at DCA during this horrendous experience, will they be able to at least see the fly overs and/or the fireworks? If they can see said events, I hope they are not offended in any way. I also hope that no one will be wearing a certain type of shoe with an image of a flag, that have been deemed offensive. Oh the horror.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
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Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:51 pm

dtw9 wrote:
How many of you making comments on this will be personally impacted. Answer. None.

Uhh... *slowly raises hand*

FlyingElvii wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
At delta we run 12 flights a day between atlanta and dca. On july 4th we have 7 and only 1 in that window. It probably inconveniences very few, their flight will be delayed like an irop. Theyll be okay.

Your political persuasion will determine how you handle it and I'm pretty sure you'll believe yours right and anyone on the other side is wrong.

But imho let america celebrate July 4th. Go big. Screw dca.

I fly to dca, i know it like the back of my hand and it's a frustrating place to operate in and out. Having it shut down is fine by me. Too bad congress is already out of town.

Send'em to IAD...

More than likely they'll just be ground stopped. Inevitably there will be a few that won't make the cutoff, and will then have to hold/divert.
 
D L X
Posts: 12464
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:53 pm

n92r03 wrote:
For those so unfortunate to be stuck at DCA during this horrendous experience, will they be able to at least see the fly overs and/or the fireworks?


Who knows about the flyovers, but it's somewhat doubtful. With respect to the fireworks themselves, it is very unlikely that they will be able to see them from the airport as the terminal buildings will get in the way. Their best bet is if they are on a plane or leave security and go to the north outdoor terrace. (I HIGHLY RECOMMEND!!!)

This year, they moved the fireworks launch south and to the west from its normal place. The first set of fireworks will be launched from Memorial Bridge on the Potomac. The second will be launched from West Potomac Park. Both are in the flight line, necessitating the closure of the airport during the show. (DCA did not close in previous years.)

2019:
Image

2018:
Image
 
airzona11
Posts: 1495
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:56 pm

This is going to be great. 4th of July is a special holiday. Looking forward to seeing it.
 
LTCM
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:35 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:56 pm

The current envirnoment is terrible. People's ability to think rationally has gone out the window. Never seen anything like it before.
 
D L X
Posts: 12464
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:56 pm

atcsundevil wrote:

More than likely they'll just be ground stopped. Inevitably there will be a few that won't make the cutoff, and will then have to hold/divert.

That would be a LOOOONG hold for what is likely a short, domestic flight. With the perimeter rule, most flights to DCA are less than 2 hours long.
Last edited by D L X on Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:37 pm

I am sure they worked on this for months now and that airlines were informed in advance. I am sure many of them have removed flights from the booking systems or have simply re-scheduled them.
 
bayouflyer
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:37 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:46 pm

Certainly not at this point, butfor the period's of time we are talking about wouldn't the powers that be have considered:
Limiting approaches to RW1? (perhaps a go-around component would limit the practicality of this?)
Limiting departures to RW19? (I just don't see any downside to this other than you have to have certain arrivals before you can have subsequent departures)
Certain there are other factors (prevailing winds in particular come to mind) but this seems something workable. Your thoughts??
 
YellowJ
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:59 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:08 pm

Blerg wrote:
I am sure they worked on this for months now and that airlines were informed in advance. I am sure many of them have removed flights from the booking systems or have simply re-scheduled them.


If that were the case there would be zero arrivals/departures slated for that time. Why run a schedule during the closed hours. It's obvious this was not relayed to the airlines much in advance.
 
zuckie13
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:30 pm

bayouflyer wrote:
Certainly not at this point, butfor the period's of time we are talking about wouldn't the powers that be have considered:
Limiting approaches to RW1? (perhaps a go-around component would limit the practicality of this?)
Limiting departures to RW19? (I just don't see any downside to this other than you have to have certain arrivals before you can have subsequent departures)
Certain there are other factors (prevailing winds in particular come to mind) but this seems something workable. Your thoughts??


1) Basically, you are correct. Wind once you have more than about a 5 knot tailwind you don't want to be landing that direction.
2) Again, you are correct, if a go-around isn't available, you can't attempt the landing.
3) Opposing operations on a single runway are really inefficient
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:32 pm

This is thread has mostly overhyped nonsense from an operational standpoint.

There’s going to be an average of 100 people per flt on July 4th evening? C’mon.

And again, even if true, we’re likely talking about limited delays within an hour. No worse than the thunderstorms that visit the DC area almost daily during the summer.

We’re talking about one airport on a holiday evening.

Can we go back to having to pay to join the forum?
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 588
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:51 pm

The question is if airlines anticipated this event well advance before planning their schedules.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:53 pm

The coolness of AF1, Blue Angeles and an F35 fly over will outweigh a few delays on probably empty flights excluding the nonrevs.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: DCA to close for July 4th Celebration

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:58 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
The question is if airlines anticipated this event well advance before planning their schedules.


Trump tweeted about a bigger July 4th back in February and people melted then. But the moving of the fireworks was known in May for sure. I doubt the airshow portion was drawn up this week. Airlines will be fine. They wont go out of busines... actually let me just go crazy.

This will probably put several airlines billions of dollars in the red. Probably close a few. Cause nation wide delays and diverts for flights not even going in and out of dc. Itll cost billions in gas to put the show on and think of AF1 and the Blues not being ready for war!

And think of the 10,000 people traveling to DC planning to arrive around 6 or 7 or 8pm to go enjoy the July 4th festivities. Let's think of them. And all those making connections in... dca? Yeah. This is without a doubt the worst. Thing. Ever.

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