What is next for Icelandair?

SRQKEF · Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:13 pm

smallmj wrote:
I just hope that they come back to YHZ once the MAX mess is resolved.

I’d think that is a very strong possibility, as Halifax has been pretty much consistently served for the last 25 years or so with some exceptions and it’s exactly the type of market the MAX is perfect for.

MalevTU134 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:37 am

Ishrion wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
Buy a350/a380 and start new route to south America , Africa, Far east and oceania

Yes, Akureyri-Port Vila on an A380 will be a money printer. Maybe even include a stop in Exeter? Really....you must connect more to the real World. Maybe get off some of the stuff you're on?...

Isn't that the guy who trolls often? Didn't he make that Exeter future airport with 6 runways?

The very same and only...

Lapplander800 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:05 am

American 767 wrote:
American is planning the final retirement of its fleet of 24 LAA 757s, the ones configured for international travel, between 2023 and 2025 when the NeoLRs will start to arrive. So, unless they are up for retirement in the desert, because they have a high number of cycles, maybe Icelandair can have think about taking them or at least some of them and fly those second had 757s a few more years, till the late 20s/early 30s at the latest. I don't see Delta picking them up although Delta is known for picking up second hand aircraft, because they would much prefer PW power plant. Icelandair taking those ex-AA RR powered birds, and fly them for the rest of the 20s, would make sense.

Icelandair actually has quite a few ex AA 757s and have shown that they like picking up older frames from a small handful of original operators. However, picking up 757s in 2023 onwards for anything but freighter converts feels less than ideal. Its time to move on.

Lapplander800 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:21 am

SRQKEF wrote:
DFW is within 757 range, IAH is not. Very important distinction given FI's current fleet as they only have 4 767s, all of which are accounted for on BOS/IAD/JFK/MSP/SEA/SFO/YYZ (depending on season).

Houston is what.. 30 miles further than PDX? And 450miles further than SFO which does operate on an occasion with 757s. The one I was on last month had a butt in every single seat. Perhaps prevailing winds are not as satisfying.

FlyingElvii wrote:
zrs70 wrote:
I think it’s time for Icelandair to up its game with international business class. They can no longer offer the equivalent of US domestic first seats.

Those seats are just fine for the legs they operate, and the markets they cater to. No, they don’t command the premium that lay flats on BA does, but they are not being sold to the BA lay flat customer.

Depends on POV;
Seats are fine for US domestic first.
Seats are great for intra EU buisness class.
For crossing the Atlantic they really should be called "Premium Economy" as that is essentially what they are.

xbgb2003 wrote:
How many maxes were they supposed to get delivered in 2020?

2018 = 3 -8s
2019 = 3 -8s and 3 -9s (2 and 1 delivered before gnd)
2020 = 2 -8s and 3 -9s
2021 = 1 -8 and 1 -9

Fargo · Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:28 am

Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

Lapplander800 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:31 am

Fargo wrote:
Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

FI was the first ever airline to interline with WN

viewtopic.php?t=196825

Fargo · Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:37 am

Lapplander800 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

FI was the first ever airline to interline with WN

viewtopic.php?t=196825

They should create a new expanded partnership that allows WN pax to connect onto FI at stations in the east such as BWI, MDW, BNA, MCO, etc.

Gulfstream500 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:04 am

Fargo wrote:
Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

JetBlue would not be too happy...

Fargo · Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:09 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

JetBlue would not be too happy...

Who cares. They aren’t a nationwide carrier.

The US3 ought to be worried if WN ever started codesharing with FI and other airlines.

Gulfstream500 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:20 am

Fargo wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

JetBlue would not be too happy...

Who cares. They aren’t a nationwide carrier.

The US3 ought to be worried if WN ever started codesharing with FI and other airlines.

Then again, neither are the people who go to Iceland (as their final destination). Most are concentrated in the east coast, like JetBlue’s flights. The non-east coast passengers simply have to fly to the east coast, as the probably would have to regardless.

Of the top five US destinations from Iceland, zero are in the west coast. Number six is SFO, which has nonstop to KEF.

Fargo · Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:35 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:

JetBlue would not be too happy...

Who cares. They aren’t a nationwide carrier.

The US3 ought to be worried if WN ever started codesharing with FI and other airlines.

Then again, neither are the people who go to Iceland (as their final destination). Most are concentrated in the east coast, like JetBlue’s flights. The non-east coast passengers simply have to fly to the east coast, as the probably would have to regardless.

Of the top five US destinations from Iceland, zero are in the west coast. Number six is SFO, which has nonstop to KEF.

And?

The point is not for Iceland O&D, the point is to connect WN pax to Europe via KEF. It’s a good long hanging fruit for WN to pursue.

santi319 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:32 am

Fargo wrote:
Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

Imagine the magic! To get to Paris from St Louis via Nashville-Atlanta-Orlando-Reykjavik-Paris.

Dream come true!

Fargo · Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:56 am

santi319 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

Imagine the magic! To get to Paris from St Louis via Nashville-Atlanta-Orlando-Reykjavik-Paris.

Dream come true!

More like STL-BNA-KEF-CDG, not much different than other 2 stop options.

santi319 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:35 am

Fargo wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Next up for FI should be codesharing with WN and using WN’s enormous domestic feed for flights to Europe.

Imagine the possibilities......

Imagine the magic! To get to Paris from St Louis via Nashville-Atlanta-Orlando-Reykjavik-Paris.

Dream come true!

More like STL-BNA-KEF-CDG, not much different than other 2 stop options.

Nah, BNA has no nonstops to KEF. And I doubt WN is jumping on that one judging by their success in the International markets...

767333ER · Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:13 am

Time for some A321s

Lapplander800 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:50 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Of the top five US destinations from Iceland, zero are in the west coast. Number six is SFO, which has nonstop to KEF.

Unsure about your statistics unless it involves an excercise in loosing money on $99 fares to fill a high density A333 out of SFO. Those days have passed.

This summer however, SEA has 2500 seats/wk to/from KEF while SFO has 1000 seats/wk. If you bundle SEA with PDX and YVR with their 5-6 flights each per week then I would argue that the PNW is a pretty strong market.

AMS18C36C · Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:02 am

See this article in FlightGlobal, where it states that FI is indeed considering Airbus: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... us-457975/

Per airfleets.net, the average age of 757’s in FI’s fleet is 22.9 years, and that of the 767 is 20.3 years. The average fleet age is 18.8 years.

aircountry · Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:02 am

AMS18C36C wrote:
See this article in FlightGlobal, where it states that FI is indeed considering Airbus: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... us-457975/

Per airfleets.net, the average age of 757’s in FI’s fleet is 22.9 years, and that of the 767 is 20.3 years. The average fleet age is 18.8 years.

If FI order A321neo or XLR then can fly within the range <---- I did posted back there then they will buy airbus over boeing. Boeing have'nt start on 797 and keep delaying too much and how long will start to built 797?

DominoxX · Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:13 am

Perhaps order a fleet of A321XLRs so to not depend on one aircraft type, and order 797s to replace their 767s and launch routes to Asia connecting to NA?

clipperlondon · Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:30 am

SRQKEF wrote:
aircountry wrote:
Icelandair should pick IAH over DFW and they picked DFW until pulled out then AA took over the route. If they pick IAH then they will be alive flying than DFW. Now I hope they might try to IAH this time.

DFW is within 757 range, IAH is not. Very important distinction given FI's current fleet as they only have 4 767s, all of which are accounted for on BOS/IAD/JFK/MSP/SEA/SFO/YYZ (depending on season).

You forgot LHR. Seen the 767s many times at Heathrow

SRQKEF · Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:13 pm

clipperlondon wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:
aircountry wrote:
Icelandair should pick IAH over DFW and they picked DFW until pulled out then AA took over the route. If they pick IAH then they will be alive flying than DFW. Now I hope they might try to IAH this time.

DFW is within 757 range, IAH is not. Very important distinction given FI's current fleet as they only have 4 767s, all of which are accounted for on BOS/IAD/JFK/MSP/SEA/SFO/YYZ (depending on season).

You forgot LHR. Seen the 767s many times at Heathrow

I didn't forget it - I fly that flight 7-10 times a year.

I was only listing the N-American destinations, as those aee the ones that prevent IAH service due to the FI hub bank structure. On the European side LHR, AMS and CDG are regular 767 flights while CPH, FRA, MUC, ZRH, ARN and OSL see it in various quantities (not including the wet leased EuroAtlantic birds currently flying for FI).

clipperlondon · Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:21 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
clipperlondon wrote:
SRQKEF wrote:

DFW is within 757 range, IAH is not. Very important distinction given FI's current fleet as they only have 4 767s, all of which are accounted for on BOS/IAD/JFK/MSP/SEA/SFO/YYZ (depending on season).

You forgot LHR. Seen the 767s many times at Heathrow

I didn't forget it - I fly that flight 7-10 times a year.

I was only listing the N-American destinations, as those aee the ones that prevent IAH service due to the FI hub bank structure. On the European side LHR, AMS and CDG are regular 767 flights while CPH, FRA, MUC, ZRH, ARN and OSL see it in various quantities (not including the wet leased EuroAtlantic birds currently flying for FI).

Ah OK, thanks.

Fargo · Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:41 pm

santi319 wrote:
Fargo wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Imagine the magic! To get to Paris from St Louis via Nashville-Atlanta-Orlando-Reykjavik-Paris.

Dream come true!

More like STL-BNA-KEF-CDG, not much different than other 2 stop options.

Nah, BNA has no nonstops to KEF. And I doubt WN is jumping on that one judging by their success in the International markets...

I was giving a hypothetical example. I am simply pointing out FI is a low hanging fruit for WN to enter the world of codesharing with.

IWMBH · Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:50 pm

Why not continuing the way they do now? They've another 757 coming and there are plenty of secondhand 757's coming on the market in te coming years. When these birds are getting too old they can always look what the market has to offer by then.

airbazar · Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
xbgb2003 wrote:
Could they get good deals on 787 for compensation for the max crisis if they wanted them?

Very, very likely: Boeing will look for ways to handle MAX with non-cash compensation, like sweet subvented lease deals from Boeing Capital.

Highly unlikely IMO. The 787 is way too big for FI and it's unlikely that they would get them before the MAX problem is resolved anyway. As it is they only have 4 767's which historically are leased out.

Personally I think it would be far more likely that they switch their fleet to Airbus. Like HA, FI made the wrong decision IMO. HA has corrected their "mistake" by switching from the A350 to the 787 and I think FI would serve themselves better by switching to the A320 family.

xbgb2003 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:25 pm

airbazar wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
xbgb2003 wrote:
Could they get good deals on 787 for compensation for the max crisis if they wanted them?

Very, very likely: Boeing will look for ways to handle MAX with non-cash compensation, like sweet subvented lease deals from Boeing Capital.

Highly unlikely IMO. The 787 is way too big for FI and it's unlikely that they would get them before the MAX problem is resolved anyway. As it is they only have 4 767's which historically are leased out.

Personally I think it would be far more likely that they switch their fleet to Airbus. Like HA, FI made the wrong decision IMO. HA has corrected their "mistake" by switching from the A350 to the 787 and I think FI would serve themselves better by switching to the A320 family.

Is it to big though? 787-8 is maybe what, 30-50 extra seats compared to their 767s and with bigger fleet for feed, I could well see it work. At the time they would get then delivered they might have up to 50 aircrafts.
They might be too expensive though...

KLDC10 · Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:22 pm

axiom wrote:
zrs70 wrote:
I think it’s time for Icelandair to up its game with international business class. They can no longer offer the equivalent of US domestic first seats.

Says who? FI has never been a premium carrier (even if they offer a great value for money).

I'm not so sure about that anymore. Used to fly with Icelandair quite regularly across the Atlantic and they were regularly $200-300 cheaper per person, but these days it's usually cheaper to go with Lufthansa. No point paying more to fly on Icelandair when the service is worse which leaves me wondering exactly what their niche is now.

airbazar · Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:17 pm

xbgb2003 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Very, very likely: Boeing will look for ways to handle MAX with non-cash compensation, like sweet subvented lease deals from Boeing Capital.

Highly unlikely IMO. The 787 is way too big for FI and it's unlikely that they would get them before the MAX problem is resolved anyway. As it is they only have 4 767's which historically are leased out.

Personally I think it would be far more likely that they switch their fleet to Airbus. Like HA, FI made the wrong decision IMO. HA has corrected their "mistake" by switching from the A350 to the 787 and I think FI would serve themselves better by switching to the A320 family.

Is it to big though? 787-8 is maybe what, 30-50 extra seats compared to their 767s and with bigger fleet for feed, I could well see it work. At the time they would get then delivered they might have up to 50 aircrafts.
They might be too expensive though...

They have only 4 767's which typically only operate in the peak Summer months. That should tell you that even the 767 are too big. They can use them though because they share a common type rating with the 757. The 787 would be even bigger than the already too big 767, would have no commonality with the 757, and it's way too expensive a plane to spend half the year parked.

SRQKEF · Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:38 pm

airbazar wrote:
xbgb2003 wrote:
airbazar wrote:

Highly unlikely IMO. The 787 is way too big for FI and it's unlikely that they would get them before the MAX problem is resolved anyway. As it is they only have 4 767's which historically are leased out.

Personally I think it would be far more likely that they switch their fleet to Airbus. Like HA, FI made the wrong decision IMO. HA has corrected their "mistake" by switching from the A350 to the 787 and I think FI would serve themselves better by switching to the A320 family.

Is it to big though? 787-8 is maybe what, 30-50 extra seats compared to their 767s and with bigger fleet for feed, I could well see it work. At the time they would get then delivered they might have up to 50 aircrafts.
They might be too expensive though...

They have only 4 767's which typically only operate in the peak Summer months. That should tell you that even the 767 are too big. They can use them though because they share a common type rating with the 757. The 787 would be even bigger than the already too big 767, would have no commonality with the 757, and it's way too expensive a plane to spend half the year parked.

Huh? They have operated the 767s daily, year round just like every other aircraft in the fleet since they acquired them in 2016. You're mixing it up with the Loftleiðir birds that FI got in the 2000s and have been leased out to various carriers since then with the exception of TF-FIB in 2004-2006.

However, I do agree with you that the 787 is too large as things stand. It might work out in the future though.

digitalcloud · Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:59 pm

PlaneMad134 wrote:
I heard Keflavik to Edinburgh may be on the cards because loads were good for Wow Air and EasyJet, Most likely will be when the Maxes get back though.

easyJet will most likely increase EDI after the loss of WW. Again, it's not all about load factors, especially comparing easyJet and Icelandair - they are two very different operations.

TWA772LR · Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:03 pm

SRQKEF wrote:
American 767 wrote:
The A321NeoXLR could go as far as KEF-SEA, KEF-YVR or KEF-IST nonstop. 4700NM range.

4700nm gives you much more to play with than that, if that's indeed the number:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=4700nm%40kef

Based off of that map it would be funny to see FI announce KEF-ICN and watch the a.netters lose their mind because a narrowbody is flying over the Arctic. :biggrin:

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