Icelandair started operating 2 banks again this may, but with the maxes out they had to scale back. What do you think is their next play?
If the max problem will take longer than expected, say til spring 2020 what will they do?

-Possible routes
Do you see them trying Asia?
- Airbus ?
- more 737, 757 or 767?
Do you see them operating 330-200/300?
Could they get good deals on 787 for compensation for the max crisis if they wanted them?

xbgb2003 wrote:

Could they get good deals on 787 for compensation for the max crisis if they wanted them?

Very, very likely: Boeing will look for ways to handle MAX with non-cash compensation, like sweet subvented lease deals from Boeing Capital.

Does the TPA flight return when the MAX issue is resolved?

I think the 787 is a little large for Icelandair right now. I think very little will change in their fleet, they will wait around for the 797.

I’m pretty sure Airbus isn’t accepting anymore A330-200/300 orders… what I am sure of is Boeing isn’t taking anymore 757 and 767 orders so a lot of these aren’t going to happen.Unless you mean them leasing it.

Planes4you wrote:

I’m pretty sure Airbus isn’t accepting anymore A330-200/300 orders… what I am sure of is Boeing isn’t taking anymore 757 and 767 orders so a lot of these aren’t going to happen.Unless you mean them leasing it.

The OP means leasing or acquiring used frames because...that's what they have done recently.

IWMBH wrote:

I think the 787 is a little large for Icelandair right now. I think very little will change in their fleet, they will wait around for the 797.

Is it too big though? Their 767s have around 260 seats, would imagine that IF they took 787-8 they would have approx 300 seat. They have also stated that they wanted to pick up more 767. With bigger fleet and more extensive network I would think a bigger aircraft would work, so maybe 787-9? .

Planes4you wrote:

I’m pretty sure Airbus isn’t accepting anymore A330-200/300 orders… what I am sure of is Boeing isn’t taking anymore 757 and 767 orders so a lot of these aren’t going to happen.Unless you mean them leasing it.

I know Boeing is not building 757 or 767 pax version any more but they could either pick up or lease a couple of old ones.

Planes4you wrote:

I’m pretty sure Airbus isn’t accepting anymore A330-200/300 orders… what I am sure of is Boeing isn’t taking anymore 757 and 767 orders so a lot of these aren’t going to happen.Unless you mean them leasing it.

Why would Airbus not accept new A330's orders?

IWMBH wrote:

Planes4you wrote:

I’m pretty sure Airbus isn’t accepting anymore A330-200/300 orders… what I am sure of is Boeing isn’t taking anymore 757 and 767 orders so a lot of these aren’t going to happen.Unless you mean them leasing it.

Why would Airbus not accept new A330's orders?

Because they wanna sell some neos. Especially the -800 which has a grand total of 10 orders. There are a ton of A330s out there that will need replacement soon enough, but there are also 787s that can do the job. Airbus isn't gonna divert possible neo sales to the aircraft it's trying to replace.

What they need is something which is as capable of carrying a load of fish from Plaice to Plaice quickly...

gkirk wrote:

What they need is something which is as capable of carrying a load of fish from Plaice to Plaice quickly...

For cod's hake, enough with the fish jokes.

Now, back to the original porpoise of this thread.

Mark

Charlotte. (I can dream)

holeham wrote:

Does the TPA flight return when the MAX issue is resolved?

No plans as yet. While FI doubled the frequency and extended the season prior to the MAX crisis, the LF data that I saw wasn’t super compelling. It’s up in the air.

Right now, I’d imagine network stabilization/profitability are on FI exec’s minds, in the wake of over-expansion,
the collapse of WW, and the grounding.

- LAX is in their sights
Perhaps it could allow for a small third bank to Europe in the afternoon following a turn in SFO, LAX during the high season like the 2004/5 SFO flight was operated (SAN would be a good add as well but probably not for an airline in a risk averse mode).
- they were looking for 2-4 more 767 a while ago, but much has changed since then. Nice 767s are probably hard to find today thanks to Amazon Prime. Currently they operate their 4 767 and 3 leased 767. Feels like a sweet spot in terms of size/cost as well as passanger/Cargo capacity.
- old 787s from Boeing at a sweet price wouldn't be too outlandish. But it is a different fleet, much more of an aircraft with efficiencies that are not much better than 767s on shorter flights like FIs European turns. The price better be really good.
- Optimization and to stabilize what they have built in terms of infrastructure and network
- If there were to be an Airbus for FI I will put my money on a mixed fleet of new NEO for high utilization in the core network and fleet of +10yr CEO for seasonal fluctuations and RON ops. Something that can be stored on a ramp without much financial pain and cranked up when demand is there.
- I would assume Boeing has strong cards on their hand to keep FI due to the MAX fiasco and compensation for it. As counter intuative as it may sound if the MAX mess hadn't happened it might have been easier for FI to go over to Airbus.

I keep hoping for an KEF-ATL flight but not sure that’ll happen anytime soon.

I heard Keflavik to Edinburgh may be on the cards because loads were good for Wow Air and EasyJet, Most likely will be when the Maxes get back though.

Maybe they'll look into the A320neo/A321XLR. It seems to be the next Reykjavik fish hauler by specs alone.

A few used A330s to replace their aging 767s might be in order too.

If the MAX debacle had happened later, FI would have been quite the jam with regards to capacity.

Then again, they might be waiting to see what the NMA promises before making plans.

axiom wrote:

holeham wrote:

Does the TPA flight return when the MAX issue is resolved?

No plans as yet. While FI doubled the frequency and extended the season prior to the MAX crisis, the LF data that I saw wasn’t super compelling. It’s up in the air.

Right now, I’d imagine network stabilization/profitability are on FI exec’s minds, in the wake of over-expansion,
the collapse of WW, and the grounding.

Agreed. Our little airline that can will probably stay mostly quiet for a while.

The A321NeoXLR could go as far as KEF-SEA, KEF-YVR or KEF-IST nonstop. 4700NM range.

American 767 wrote:

The A321NeoXLR could go as far as KEF-SEA, KEF-YVR or KEF-IST nonstop. 4700NM range.

4700nm gives you much more to play with than that, if that's indeed the number:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=4700nm%40kef

I'd go with the A321XLR to replace most of the 757-200s, some A320NEOs on smaller/new/regional routes, and the 767s being replaced by 2nd hand A330-200s or -300s, allowing expansion to new markets, but without the high costs of a new jet, whilst being more forgiving of the long periods of downtime FI jets sometimes have in certain destinations. They seem to have gotten around that issue by changing their waves of traffic this year, but presumably if they look East (e.g. Japan and Hong Kong seem to be hotspots for tourists going to Iceland) it may or may not work the same.

SRQKEF wrote:

American 767 wrote:

The A321NeoXLR could go as far as KEF-SEA, KEF-YVR or KEF-IST nonstop. 4700NM range.

4700nm gives you much more to play with than that, if that's indeed the number:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=4700nm%40kef

Here is a decent read - just note the 150 seat 3 class layout in the conclusions;
https://leehamnews.com/2019/06/27/the-r ... s-a321xlr/

Icelandair should pick IAH over DFW and they picked DFW until pulled out then AA took over the route. If they pick IAH then they will be alive flying than DFW. Now I hope they might try to IAH this time.

bananaboy wrote:

gkirk wrote:

What they need is something which is as capable of carrying a load of fish from Plaice to Plaice quickly...

For cod's hake, enough with the fish jokes.

Now, back to the original porpoise of this thread.

Mark

Thank you - I needed that!

aircountry wrote:

Icelandair should pick IAH over DFW and they picked DFW until pulled out then AA took over the route. If they pick IAH then they will be alive flying than DFW. Now I hope they might try to IAH this time.

American isn’t the reason icelandair left…

Planes4you wrote:

aircountry wrote:

Icelandair should pick IAH over DFW and they picked DFW until pulled out then AA took over the route. If they pick IAH then they will be alive flying than DFW. Now I hope they might try to IAH this time.

American isn’t the reason icelandair left…

AA started DFW-KEF approximately 1 week after FI launched KEF-DFW service. Yes, AA added to FI's demise at DFW with competition, but they started the route practically concurrently.

Truthfully, IAH would be a better pick for FI given that UA doesn't seem to defend IAH as strong as AA at DFW.

Icelandair it's the exactly airline for what the NMA/797 is designed for. But if Boeing get more delays and problems, I would see them going Airbus. They need more planes for themselves and for Cabo Verde Airlines (TACV), and also they are bidding to buy SATA Azores from Portugal.

I think it’s time for Icelandair to up its game with international business class. They can no longer offer the equivalent of US domestic first seats.

Ishrion wrote:

Planes4you wrote:

aircountry wrote:

Icelandair should pick IAH over DFW and they picked DFW until pulled out then AA took over the route. If they pick IAH then they will be alive flying than DFW. Now I hope they might try to IAH this time.

American isn’t the reason icelandair left…

AA started DFW-KEF approximately 1 week after FI launched KEF-DFW service. Yes, AA added to FI's demise at DFW with competition, but they started the route practically concurrently.

Truthfully, IAH would be a better pick for FI given that UA doesn't seem to defend IAH as strong as AA at DFW.

I agreed with you and they made a big mistake to pick DFW over IAH and not think about AA love to kick any international out then take over the route. UA is no longer HQ in Houston anymore and IAH got gain more new international airlines. Icelandair should welcome to IAH.

aircountry wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

Planes4you wrote:

American isn’t the reason icelandair left…

AA started DFW-KEF approximately 1 week after FI launched KEF-DFW service. Yes, AA added to FI's demise at DFW with competition, but they started the route practically concurrently.

Truthfully, IAH would be a better pick for FI given that UA doesn't seem to defend IAH as strong as AA at DFW.

I agreed with you and they made a big mistake to pick DFW over IAH and not think about AA love to kick any international out then take over the route. UA is no longer HQ in Houston anymore and IAH got gain more new international airlines. Icelandair should welcome to IAH.

IAH is gaining more international airlines though. Ethiopian will begin service from Africa to IAH this December. TAP Portugal has announced possible plans to launch service to IAH.
Air Peace, another African carrier, has announced intentions to add IAH to its network.

Another interesting thing to note is Icelandair was the only one on DFW-KEF that ran it year-round. WW and AA both launched seasonal services only.

wave46 wrote:

Maybe they'll look into the A320neo/A321XLR. It seems to be the next Reykjavik fish hauler by specs alone.

A few used A330s to replace their aging 767s might be in order too.

If the MAX debacle had happened later, FI would have been quite the jam with regards to capacity.

Then again, they might be waiting to see what the NMA promises before making plans.

Why does everyone here have to use the word "aging" when describing 767's?

There were plenty of A330's built between 1997-00 also, and newer ones are still a bit expensive on the market.

zrs70 wrote:

I think it’s time for Icelandair to up its game with international business class. They can no longer offer the equivalent of US domestic first seats.

Says who? FI has never been a premium carrier (even if they offer a great value for money).

zrs70 wrote:

I think it’s time for Icelandair to up its game with international business class. They can no longer offer the equivalent of US domestic first seats.

Given the reasonable price range for the Saga Class and the average flight time of a typical FI flight, I'd say the FI Business product is still pretty competitive as it is.

And as said above, FI is closer to a LCC than a full service, legacy airline.

But then, nothing prevents them from "upping their game" with an updated lie-flat business seat similar to what American installed on their A321T... but is it a priority given their business model? I think not.

aircountry wrote:

Icelandair should pick IAH over DFW and they picked DFW until pulled out then AA took over the route. If they pick IAH then they will be alive flying than DFW. Now I hope they might try to IAH this time.

DFW is within 757 range, IAH is not. Very important distinction given FI's current fleet as they only have 4 767s, all of which are accounted for on BOS/IAD/JFK/MSP/SEA/SFO/YYZ (depending on season).

SRQKEF wrote:

aircountry wrote:

Icelandair should pick IAH over DFW and they picked DFW until pulled out then AA took over the route. If they pick IAH then they will be alive flying than DFW. Now I hope they might try to IAH this time.

DFW is within 757 range, IAH is not. Very important distinction given FI's current fleet as they only have 4 767s, all of which are accounted for on BOS/IAD/JFK/MSP/SEA/SFO/YYZ (depending on season).

If FI order A321neo or XLR then can fly within the range and can make it to IAH but not comfirm to buy airbus or boeing yet and nothing to say will serve to IAH to replace DFW route. FI should keep 787-8 but gave lease to other airline.

I just hope that they come back to YHZ once the MAX mess is resolved.

Ishrion wrote:

IAH is gaining more international airlines though. Ethiopian will begin service from Africa to IAH this December. TAP Portugal has announced possible plans to launch service to IAH.
Air Peace, another African carrier, has announced intentions to add IAH to its network.

Another interesting thing to note is Icelandair was the only one on DFW-KEF that ran it year-round. WW and AA both launched seasonal services only.

I think air peace is too ambitious

But we’re not talking about IAH or Air peace

OA940 wrote:

IWMBH wrote:

Planes4you wrote:

I’m pretty sure Airbus isn’t accepting anymore A330-200/300 orders… what I am sure of is Boeing isn’t taking anymore 757 and 767 orders so a lot of these aren’t going to happen.Unless you mean them leasing it.

Why would Airbus not accept new A330's orders?

Because they wanna sell some neos. Especially the -800 which has a grand total of 10 orders. There are a ton of A330s out there that will need replacement soon enough, but there are also 787s that can do the job. Airbus isn't gonna divert possible neo sales to the aircraft it's trying to replace.

They are still offering the A330ceo. Weather or not they will make a competitive offer for the A330ceo vs A330neo is a different case. Given that Icelandair would be a new A330 customer, Airbus would push them towards the A330neo. If on the other hand it was SAS approaching Airbus for a single A330 for expansion, preventing them from ordering an A330-300 would be crazy.

How many maxes were they supposed to get delivered in 2020?
How likely do you think they would go for China, Japan or South-Korea?
It should be doable back to back in 24 hours. They would ofc have to get more 767 for that mission or adjust their network to them free up..
I could also see them starting Nashville, New Orleans and maybe Salt Lake city, 757 has the legs to do it. They also sated they were interested in Tel aviv,
But that probably wont happen until things have settled down.

holeham wrote:

Does the TPA flight return when the MAX issue is resolved?

No, Norwegian cut too deeply into their connecting LON traffic.

zrs70 wrote:

I think it’s time for Icelandair to up its game with international business class. They can no longer offer the equivalent of US domestic first seats.

Those seats are just fine for the legs they operate, and the markets they cater to. No, they don’t command the premium that lay flats on BA does, but they are not being sold to the BA lay flat customer.
Compared to the uncomfortable cattle-car experience economy has become on most airlines, FI’s Business Class experience is just fine, for much less money. (Note: I experienced FI biz class to Europe just two weeks ago.)

chunhimlai wrote:

Buy a350/a380 and start new route to south America , Africa, Far east and oceania

Yes, Akureyri-Port Vila on an A380 will be a money printer. Maybe even include a stop in Exeter? Really....you must connect more to the real World. Maybe get off some of the stuff you're on?...

MalevTU134 wrote:

chunhimlai wrote:

Buy a350/a380 and start new route to south America , Africa, Far east and oceania

Yes, Akureyri-Port Vila on an A380 will be a money printer. Maybe even include a stop in Exeter? Really....you must connect more to the real World. Maybe get off some of the stuff you're on?...

Isn't that the guy who trolls often? Didn't he make that Exeter future airport with 6 runways?

American is planning the final retirement of its fleet of 24 LAA 757s, the ones configured for international travel, between 2023 and 2025 when the NeoLRs will start to arrive. So, unless they are up for retirement in the desert, because they have a high number of cycles, maybe Icelandair can have think about taking them or at least some of them and fly those second had 757s a few more years, till the late 20s/early 30s at the latest. I don't see Delta picking them up although Delta is known for picking up second hand aircraft, because they would much prefer PW power plant. Icelandair taking those ex-AA RR powered birds, and fly them for the rest of the 20s, would make sense.

Hopefully KEF - ATH direct
Would be very handy for me. But sigh...one can dream

This is no cod joke, but apparently the LRX can haul two tons more of cod than the 757 to SEA from KEF, with full pax (190)

A321XLR. The 757s have to go and quickly (according to Icelandair).