inconel
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Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:45 pm

While a lot of people are still wondering whether/when China will emerge as an aviation powerhouse, could a completely unexpected trend be occurring under our noses: relegation of North American control of the narrow-body market to a fraction of what it was.

October 2017: announced that Airbus will take a 50.01% stake in the C-Series. Rebranded as A220, future developments, e.g. whether to launch A220-500 will be decided in Toulouse.

March 2019: Boeing 737 Max grounded. In the hands of regulators.

June 2019: Announcement that Bombardier CRJ program sold to Mitsubishi. Passing into Japanese control.

Now if the 737 MAX is fixed and re-enters service in the coming months, then the above hypothesis will be falsified.

But if the MAX requires hardware changes which in turn lead to a multi-year grounding (and we'll probably find out within months), then I think the 6-decade North American dominance/major control of the narrow-body market is on the line. Not just because the MAX is out, but it will be out in a way which will seriously tie up Boeing resources while Airbus would be free to ramp up production.

Look, this could all amount to nothing, and soon. But on the other hand it might be an emerging trend, and if so, much sooner and more unexpected than conventional wisdom would have dictated.
 
mwhcvt
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:18 pm

That’s certainly the darkest outlook on it, if and it’s a big if the MAX sees a grounding running well into 2020 then I think you’ll see more customers demanding Boeing get the plans finalised on an all new design and the existing MAX operators get solid deals on conversions or new orders, I think you’ll see more of the less invested airlines seriously looking towards the Airbus offering

I’d hope that in the last six months Boeing will have had not just software engineers working on the max but also other engineering teams working on possible hardware solutions should the be needed, so that if it comes to it a significant portion of the works has already been done towards that fix route

I foresee Airbus increasing production in the coming years but not massively as theres a big risk to a massive increase, but IIRC both the Tianjin and Mobile FALs were build to be 8/month lines and both currently only do 4/month, so I could see both these lines being used to give a small bump to production

Same goes for the A220 line I’d really not see any serious development there besides getting production efficiently running until Airbus has full control I don’t see them doing any lineup developments especially not an all new larger version
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:47 pm

I don’t think Bombardier exciting commercial aviation is connected to the 737MAX. Bombardier has been struggling for years.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:04 pm

inconel wrote:
I think the 6-decade North American dominance/major control of the narrow-body market is on the line. Not just because the MAX is out, but it will be out in a way which will seriously tie up Boeing resources while Airbus would be free to ramp up production.


I think that decision to relinquish dominance was made in August 2011 when Boeing announced the MAX. Basically, the A320neo and the MAX-8 will remain roughly on equal production, but the A321neo will almost certainly outsell the stretched MAX-9 and MAX-10.

That was more or less true from 2001 when the B757 stopped taking orders until 2010. The B737-900/900ER never got close to orders or deliveries of the A321ceo.

I imagine when Boeing announced the MAX line and the decision to postpone a new model, that champagne corks were popping at Airbus.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:07 pm

Avaition is a subset of total manufacturing, which continues to off shore. Wall street types see employees only as liabilities and don't want manufactuing in "high wage" countries like the USA.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:20 pm

The flaw your theory is this statement:

“Airbus would be free to ramp up production”

They aren’t unless they are willing to invest tens of billions in new production facilities for narrowbody aircraft for something that may well be temporary.

I don’t think a.netters really understand the complexities of making civilian commercial aircraft. Those who say that Boeing should have made a clean sheet aircraft are equally underestimating the complexities of building a brand new plane.

In 2011, Boeing had just finished the 787 programmer which was the most expensive and complex aircraft programmed in history. On top of that oil prices has risen from under $50 to over $100 per barrel and it certainly seemed like $100 plus oil was the new normal in 2011. Should Boeing spend at least as much as they did on the 787 programme for a new natrowbody that won’t be available until the late 2010s or early 2020s or should they update an existing model? What if oil had moved upwards to $150 per barrel by 2015 and Boeing had nothing to offer until 2020? Think anyone would wait around for Boeing’s new planes? Then Airbus would have had an incentive to increase productive capacity. Where as now they have less incentive.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:38 pm

Bobloblaw wrote:
The flaw your theory is this statement:

“Airbus would be free to ramp up production”

They aren’t unless they are willing to invest tens of billions in new production facilities for narrowbody aircraft for something that may well be temporary.

I don’t think a.netters really understand the complexities of making civilian commercial aircraft. Those who say that Boeing should have made a clean sheet aircraft are equally underestimating the complexities of building a brand new plane.

In 2011, Boeing had just finished the 787 programmer which was the most expensive and complex aircraft programmed in history. On top of that oil prices has risen from under $50 to over $100 per barrel and it certainly seemed like $100 plus oil was the new normal in 2011. Should Boeing spend at least as much as they did on the 787 programme for a new natrowbody that won’t be available until the late 2010s or early 2020s or should they update an existing model? What if oil had moved upwards to $150 per barrel by 2015 and Boeing had nothing to offer until 2020? Think anyone would wait around for Boeing’s new planes? Then Airbus would have had an incentive to increase productive capacity. Where as now they have less incentive.

It is not just the aircraft, it is the engine.

A next generation of engine requires new CMC foundries on a mass scale. It will take the tens of billions for a new aircraft and a minimum of 8 years to enter service.

Airbus is doing well, they do need to expand production, but do so in a way that enables downsizing (layoffs) in 7 to 10 years. If you cannot fire, you cannot hire.

The MAX will enter service again. When is the question.

The C919 makes noise, but all indications are that it is as flawed as the ARJ-21. Notice dispatch reliability is never published on that aircraft? If it was Bombardier/Mitsubishi and Embraer would enjoy that marketing opportunity.

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sassiciai
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:49 pm

Boeing is surely active on Plan B already, and perhaps looking into Plan C as well

Plan A continues to be to get the 737Max recertified and back in the air. This approach seems to be getting harder and harder, longer and longer, as days go bye. Might be unwise to bet the company on this plan

Plan B assumes the Max is doomed, and would therefore be a 2-pronged approach. Revamp 737NG production, and advance on NSA ASAP

Plan C might involve another manufacturer, Boeing is smooching up to Embraer, perhaps there is an already available alternative for the single aisle market, all be it at the lower end of the scale. Some jokers have also suggested Boeing builds A320s under licence! Well, there's a thought! There are lots of precedents of that happening, although maybe not so recently, or on such an incredible scale! Somehow, the market needs supply at twice what each member of the duopoly can currently provide!

"Where there's a will, there's a way"
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:06 pm

I think that this subject matter needs a reality check: which narrowbody doesn't have a full rate final assembly plant in North America?

Food for thought.

Boeing now also has the Ejet as plan B.
As interim lift or permanent capacity.
 
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keesje
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:53 pm

Everybody knows better looking back. (To be honest, google shows looking ahead too..). Maybe Airbus spread their risk, 3 success types (A223, A320,A321), 3 engines, 5 FALs. Putting all your money on 1 type, 1 engine, 1 FAL sounds good from a economies of scale standpoint, but..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Aesma
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:03 pm

Airbus can take over some Boeing plants and employees to make more A32s there, if push comes to shove.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
T4thH
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:22 pm

Aesma wrote:
Airbus can take over some Boeing plants and employees to make more A32s there, if push comes to shove.

Sorry; but no. They will prefer to build up a new plant and to start to train new workers accordingly to build jets, and this is not iidenticall to the American/Boeing way, to ttrain someone on one single job/SOP, like to screw yellow srews into the yellow holes. And than to be trained on the next SOP, so you are allowed additional to srew the red screws into the red marked holes.
And regarding facilities? Empty buildings, everthing inside will be scrapped, if you want to produce another bird/product of another company..

Why they shall do his?

Bombardier, this is another story. A small company, experienced workers, who are experienced to buld different birds (and not only trained on one or few jobs). Airbus is committed by contracts, tthey will stay there for the next 30 years or so? There is a reason, why Airbus is now just buying big areas arounnd the airport,/FAL. in Montreal. I will not be surprised, when suddenly/not too far away in ttime the start of another production line/construction building (like A320 Family FALL or A350 FAL?) will be announced.. With 1 $, Canada has not sold the C100/300; instead they have bought in into the Airbus family.
As already said, Airbus is there to stay.
 
Kilopond
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:07 pm

keesje wrote:
Everybody knows better looking back. [...]


As far as Airbus is concerned, one could also say „de domste boeren hebben de dikste aardappelen”. They started the A320 family with the goal to steal some 300 or so orders from the historic McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing/Fokker oligopoly. There had been high risks and even Airbus themselves had not been able to forsee their own success/luck. Especially the 321 started very slowly, but now it has treamendously outsold any 757-200/300 and 737-900/900ER and 737MAX9/10 – ALL COUNTED TOGETHER!
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:24 pm

Airbus is doing better with narrowbodies

Image

However, I don’t know why we are excluding the widebody market from the conversation. The whole concept of the NMA is to erase the divide between widebodies and narrowbodies.

Boeing is bringing in more widebody revenue than narrowbody revenue

Image

Image

Source: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... e-counted/

The strength of the A321 and recent sales success of the A330 for regional operations in China explains why Boeing is progressing with the design of the NMA.
 
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keesje
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:56 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Airbus is doing better with narrowbodies

Image

However, I don’t know why we are excluding the widebody market from the conversation. The whole concept of the NMA is to erase the divide between widebodies and narrowbodies.

Boeing is bringing in more widebody revenue than narrowbody revenue

Image

Image

Source: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... e-counted/

The strength of the A321 and recent sales success of the A330 for regional operations in China explains why Boeing is progressing with the design of the NMA.


Widebodies, A350 will soon be at 10 a month, A330 back at 6 a month.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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cargil48
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:05 am

PacoMartin wrote:

I imagine when Boeing announced the MAX line and the decision to postpone a new model, that champagne corks were popping at Airbus.


You can bet on it...
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:09 am

cargil48 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:

I imagine when Boeing announced the MAX line and the decision to postpone a new model, that champagne corks were popping at Airbus.


You can bet on it...


Except of course A320neo production isn’t going well either with delivery delays stretching out until at least next year

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429767&p=21611165
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:19 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
cargil48 wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:

I imagine when Boeing announced the MAX line and the decision to postpone a new model, that champagne corks were popping at Airbus.


You can bet on it...


Except of course A320neo production isn’t going well either with delivery delays stretching out until at least next year

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429767&p=21611165


That does not change the fact that though there are delays, it is still record production and delivery numbers.
 
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cargil48
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:19 am

Boeing lost heavily with the "commonality" issue regarding future 737 evolutions. That airframe could not support any evolutions past the NG-series. Take my opinion with the famous grain of salt, but the mistake was not having developed a new midsize airplane more or less like the 757 in size, but completely new in "hardware solutions", i.e. much lighter build and obviously current new technology engines. And, for commonality's sake, the same cockpit layout as the 737-800NG to keep training expenses as low as possible. And some of the newer 737 variants could continue on the sales list for those companies wanting that size of airplane for medium to short/medium range legs, say between 500km and 1.000km (where the fuel economy does not weigh in so much). Then, and only then, could the Boeing people have started a new design for the old 737 with new materials.
In other words: The first step (in my opinion) would have been a new design based more or less on the 757 to compete with the A321 but with commonalities with the 737 operation systems, for keeping the transition of 737 pilots easy (and cheap...). The second step would then have been a replacement for the 737 based on the more sucessful 737-variants the market would still need. And to keep cmpeting with the A320.

Regarding the MAX8 problems, I see only one solution to solve the problem AND to regain confidence from the market: Find a way to fit stretched MLG systems. They stretched the fron landing gear and avoided costs of making changes to allow the swame stretch on the MLG. Now they're paying the price for it. And be it said, I deon't konw how a change in length of the struts of the MLG could cost but what I do know is that if they make the approach oinly by changing the software of the MCAS Boeing will never regain total confidence on the part of the customers and even less by the public. It would be trying to cure the illness with a similar medicine...
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:41 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Airbus is doing better with narrowbodies

Image

However, I don’t know why we are excluding the widebody market from the conversation. The whole concept of the NMA is to erase the divide between widebodies and narrowbodies.

Boeing is bringing in more widebody revenue than narrowbody revenue

Image

Image

Source: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... e-counted/

The strength of the A321 and recent sales success of the A330 for regional operations in China explains why Boeing is progressing with the design of the NMA.


Very nice looking. But do people really believe that the mix of 737-8 with a few 737-9 gives a better price per frame than the mix of A320neo with quite a few A321neo?
Or the mix of 737-700, 737-800 and a few 737-900ER gives the same money per frame, as A319ceo, A320ceo and A321ceo at Airbus?
I know that part of this is guessing, but the A321 ceo or neo is supposed to be rather expensive compared to a 737-900ER or 737-9.

Interesting is also that they assume an average sales price for an A330neo at 100 million USD, for a 787 146 million USD and for an A350 153 million USD.
That is far from the idea that Boeing is able to about match the price of an A330neo with the 787.
 
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cargil48
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:44 am

lightsaber wrote:
In 2011, Boeing had just finished the 787 programmer which was the most expensive and complex aircraft programmed in history. On top of that oil prices has risen from under $50 to over $100 per barrel and it certainly seemed like $100 plus oil was the new normal in 2011. Should Boeing spend at least as much as they did on the 787 programme for a new natrowbody that won’t be available until the late 2010s or early 2020s or should they update an existing model? What if oil had moved upwards to $150 per barrel by 2015 and Boeing had nothing to offer until 2020? Think anyone would wait around for Boeing’s new planes? Then Airbus would have had an incentive to increase productive capacity. Where as now they have less incentive.


Correct. But as I said before in my "what if" scenario above. when Boeing started to think about what we know now as the MAX generation of the 737, what if they had taken the work already done for building the 787 to make a "new 757" to compete with the A321? Wouldn't that keep development costs down because it would in a certain way be a "downscaling" of the already existing work for the 787? Maybe making it a bit less sophisticated since the main goal was (and is) to find a way to produce a new, efficient narrow body plane, correct?


A next generation of engine requires new CMC foundries on a mass scale. It will take the tens of billions for a new aircraft and a minimum of 8 years to enter service.
Lightsaber


It wasn't that what Boeing did when launching the 737 MAX series... It was the opposite: Finding a way to get a new generation of engines and fit it on a decades long design...
 
bob75013
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:48 am

cargil48 wrote:


Regarding the MAX8 problems, I see only one solution to solve the problem AND to regain confidence from the market: .


Tell that to IAG and other customers that will likely order hundreds of them after the grounding is lifted.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:49 am

The solution to the MAX, with proper redundancy, is moving forward. It is a question of when it enters service.

Airbus botched their ramp. Oops. But not as badly as Boeing.

Changing landing gear is too big of a job. There will be no moving the engines. The whole wing/nacelle interaction would require a year of flight testing, which just isn't economical.

Flight testing is scheduled for October.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... in-october

This is consistent with a late 2019 return to service. However, I personally see a need to socialize the flight test results which could delay return to service by a few months. If anything is found amiss in flight testing, add another six months.

The public will forget this after a rebranding. The rest of this discussion belongs on the MAX threads.

With Airbus increasing North American narrowbody production, I do not see a worry. I doubt the A220 will ever be produced in Europe (Asia is a different story). I expect more A321 production in Mobile (an expansion).

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spinotter
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:32 pm

Kilopond wrote:
keesje wrote:
Everybody knows better looking back. [...]


As far as Airbus is concerned, one could also say „de domste boeren hebben de dikste aardappelen”. They started the A320 family with the goal to steal some 300 or so orders from the historic McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing/Fokker oligopoly. There had been high risks and even Airbus themselves had not been able to forsee their own success/luck. Especially the 321 started very slowly, but now it has treamendously outsold any 757-200/300 and 737-900/900ER and 737MAX9/10 – ALL COUNTED TOGETHER!


Maar waarom hebben de domste boeren de dikste aardappelen? Maybe they knew something that Boeing didn't? Or just built a better machine back in 1988? Is that really so dumb?
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:12 pm

Kilopond wrote:
They started the A320 family with the goal to steal some 300 or so orders from the historic McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing/Fokker oligopoly. There had been high risks and even Airbus themselves had not been able to forsee their own success/luck.


The B737 had 458 orders it's first 10 years (1965-1974) and 1479 orders it's second 10 years. The A320 delivered 433 jets in six years before the A321 or A319 variant deliveries began.

Airbus may not have been able to foresee their own success, but I sincerely doubt that their goal was only to steal 300 orders.

In the seven years from 1994 to 2000 Airbus delivered a relatively anemic cumulative 172 A321s with no more than 35 in a single year. That was well below the B757 deliveries every single year, and the cumulative 366 deliveries for all seven years. It probably would have been a surprise to Airbus executives in 1994 that they would eventually destroy the B757 program and they would replace it with the unexciting B737-900/900ER program which would sell a mere 557 jets.


Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Airbus is doing better with narrowbodies. However, I don’t know why we are excluding the widebody market from the conversation. The whole concept of the NMA is to erase the divide between widebodies and narrowbodies. Boeing is bringing in more widebody revenue than narrowbody revenue


Partly because the OP is about narrowbodies. However, Boeing's dominance in widebodies is partly because of the steady revenue stream from the B737 which is more of a commodity. If Boeing completely trashes their narrowbody market, they will not have the R&D and probably the widebody market will follow a decade later. On the flip side Airbus return to massive profitability will mean much more R&D.

The NMA is still a concept and not a program.
 
T4thH
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:41 pm

spinotter wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
keesje wrote:
Everybody knows better looking back. [...]


As far as Airbus is concerned, one could also say „de domste boeren hebben de dikste aardappelen”. They started the A320 family with the goal to steal some 300 or so orders from the historic McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing/Fokker oligopoly. There had been high risks and even Airbus themselves had not been able to forsee their own success/luck. Especially the 321 started very slowly, but now it has treamendously outsold any 757-200/300 and 737-900/900ER and 737MAX9/10 – ALL COUNTED TOGETHER!


Maar waarom hebben de domste boeren de dikste aardappelen? Maybe they knew something that Boeing didn't? Or just built a better machine back in 1988? Is that really so dumb?


Sorry to say, it easy to see, you are not aware of the "Der dümmste Bauer hat die dicksten Kartoffeln" story. So "The most stupid farmer has the biggest potatoes".

In historical times (when the people were able to understand it, sorry to say): It has to be taken word by word.
In former times, to big potatoes have had an issue. They started to rot early, regular already in the soil.

So the most stupid farmer got the biggest potatoes and did not recognized that his potatoes were worthless, as already rotten in the soil.
 
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cargil48
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:57 pm

T4thH wrote:
Sorry to say, it easy to see, you are not aware of the "Der dümmste Bauer hat die dicksten Kartoffeln" story. So "The most stupid farmer has the biggest potatoes".

In historical times (when the people were able to understand it, sorry to say): It has to be taken word by word.
In former times, to big potatoes have had an issue. They started to rot early, regular already in the soil.

So the most stupid farmer got the biggest potatoes and did not recognized that his potatoes were worthless, as already rotten in the soil.


Was man hier so alles lernt!!... :D What one gets here to know is amazing... Never knew the real meaning of that saying is the one T4 describes here... I always heard it in relation to "the dumbest guy gets the best results"...
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:16 am

spinotter wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
keesje wrote:
Everybody knows better looking back. [...]


As far as Airbus is concerned, one could also say „de domste boeren hebben de dikste aardappelen”. They started the A320 family with the goal to steal some 300 or so orders from the historic McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing/Fokker oligopoly. There had been high risks and even Airbus themselves had not been able to forsee their own success/luck. Especially the 321 started very slowly, but now it has treamendously outsold any 757-200/300 and 737-900/900ER and 737MAX9/10 – ALL COUNTED TOGETHER!


Maar waarom hebben de domste boeren de dikste aardappelen? Maybe they knew something that Boeing didn't? Or just built a better machine back in 1988? Is that really so dumb?


Airframe-wise, NB's haven't progressed technologically from 1988, that's why. Take a 30 year old CEO and and and brand new NEO and remove the engines - you could not tell the difference.

Airbus was simply lucky timing-wise, that's all.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:54 am

[list=][/list]
SteelChair wrote:
Avaition is a subset of total manufacturing, which continues to off shore. Wall street types see employees only as liabilities and don't want manufactuing in "high wage" countries like the USA.




Offshore to high-cost France?

That is a swing and a miss, no offense.

Boeing gobbled up the american competitors and now Boeing itself is in trouble with regards to narrowbody production.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:58 pm

Me thinks people have forgotten that Airbus also makes narrow body planes in North America...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:02 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Avaition is a subset of total manufacturing, which continues to off shore. Wall street types see employees only as liabilities and don't want manufactuing in "high wage" countries like the USA.


Pax see no value in paying more to make sure their airplane is made in a "high wage" country. "Wall Street types" and pretty much any person in business is/are smart enough to realize they can't charge more just because of where something is built. Investors would quickly get rid of any "wall street type" who wasted money on building in a "high wage" country, when they could build with the same quality somewhere else. Who are those investors? Wellllll, do you have a retirement account (i.e. IRA, 401k, etc.)?. If so, depending on what you're invested in, there's a good chance you're (partially) to blame.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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spinotter
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Re: Losing control? Narrow-body production in North America

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:48 pm

T4thH wrote:
spinotter wrote:
Kilopond wrote:

As far as Airbus is concerned, one could also say „de domste boeren hebben de dikste aardappelen”. They started the A320 family with the goal to steal some 300 or so orders from the historic McDonnell-Douglas/Boeing/Fokker oligopoly. There had been high risks and even Airbus themselves had not been able to forsee their own success/luck. Especially the 321 started very slowly, but now it has treamendously outsold any 757-200/300 and 737-900/900ER and 737MAX9/10 – ALL COUNTED TOGETHER!


Maar waarom hebben de domste boeren de dikste aardappelen? Maybe they knew something that Boeing didn't? Or just built a better machine back in 1988? Is that really so dumb?


Sorry to say, it easy to see, you are not aware of the "Der dümmste Bauer hat die dicksten Kartoffeln" story. So "The most stupid farmer has the biggest potatoes".

In historical times (when the people were able to understand it, sorry to say): It has to be taken word by word.
In former times, to big potatoes have had an issue. They started to rot early, regular already in the soil.

So the most stupid farmer got the biggest potatoes and did not recognized that his potatoes were worthless, as already rotten in the soil.


You are right, I did not understand the meaning, although I did understand the words. Thanks. I have always admired Airbus, but maybe the A380 was was an overlarge rotten potato.

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