RainerBoeing777
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Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:02 pm

This year has been good for the Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner, orders for Korean Air 20 units and orders for Air New Zealand 8.

KLM increases its fleet its fleet from 8 units to 15.
https://nieuws.klm.com/de-air-france-klm-groep-zet-een-volgende-stap-in-de-optimalisatie-van-de-lange-afstandsvloot/

United is about to confirm 11 more units for a total of 25
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/mainline-fleet-tracking

The largest brother of the Dreamliner family is the next to lead the transatlantic market and the high density of Asia-Pacific.
What will be the next airlines to add this model to their fleets?

My expectations are these:

American Airlines (AA)
Definitely AA will add this model to its fleet is perfect to replace the Boeing 777-200ER in high density routes in Latin America such as MIA-GRU / EZE / SCL, European routes such as DFW-FRA / CDG / MAD / LHR, JFK-MXP / CDG / MAD / LHR and MIA-LHR / MAD / CDG / MXP or increase capacity in Asia on routes such as LAX-NRT / HND / PEK or add new destinations such as LAX-ICN

EL AL (LY)
LY has just lost significant capacity with the departure of the Boeing 747-400 but improves its operability and effeciency with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, the Boeing 787-10 is perfect for its flagship routes such as TLV-JFK / EWR and high demand routes such as TLV-BKK

LOT Polish (LO)
An airline that has expanded rapidly, began as the Boeing 787-8 and then the Boeing 787-9, why not the Boeing 787-10? LOT hopes to further expand its fleet, this model is ideal for the most popular routes such as WAW-JFK / LAX / YYZ / ORD / NRT / ICN

Thai Airways (TG)
This is your best option to replace your old Boeing 777 Classic (-200 / -300) and better optimize your domestic and regional network, this model would be perfect for your high capacity missions Japan is one of the largest markets of TG this model it can perfectly serve on routes such as BKK-NRT / HND / KIX / NGO / FUK / CTS, or other high demansa destinations in Asia such as BKK-DEL / BOM / PVG / PEK / ICN / TPE

Air Canada (AC)
This is the perfect model for its large hubs like YYZ and YUL for the European market would be ideal for destinations such as LHR, FRA, MUC, CDG and FCO

Qantas (QF)
QF is falling in love with the Boeing 787! this has great expectations in the future for its fleet is perfect to add more capacity in its destinations in Asia routes such as BNE / MEL / SYD-SIN, MEL / BNE-NRT, BNE / MEL / SYD-HKG
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:04 pm

Turkish (TK) too I would imagine for their ambitions at the new airport.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:18 pm

It all depends on how much the rumored empty weight reduction and MTOW really is. My opinion is the payload range curve needs expansion:
1. Empty weight reduction increase kg for kg payload at all ranges.
2. MTOW weight increase adds payload above 4500nm.
3. Thrust bump. Stretches always have poor hot/high. I don't expect much more thrust, but I hear rumors of something in the works.
4. Engine PIP. With item #3, I hear rumblings of a PIP for GE, but years out.(as in 5 years, so RR has time).

ANA is an airline with a network that should add -10s. Possibly JAL, but I consider the possibility less likely.

I also expect the 787-10 to be contending for India LCCs. However, each order will be brutally fought, so I assume nothing.

Next year I expect a LH group order.

49 orders in a year is healthy. I expect a few more, but nothing dramatic. I hope to be surprised on the upside.

Lightsaber
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fessor
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:24 pm

In the former fleet plan for TG 787 wasn't in, they have had to many complains about comfort in economy class in the fleet they have now, also they want to simplify the fleet, but again its TG so who know they will maybe buy 5 of each
 
ericm2031
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
It all depends on how much the rumored empty weight reduction and MTOW really is. My opinion is the payload range curve needs expansion:
1. Empty weight reduction increase kg for kg payload at all ranges.
2. MTOW weight increase adds payload above 4500nm.
3. Thrust bump. Stretches always have poor hot/high. I don't expect much more thrust, but I hear rumors of something in the works.
4. Engine PIP. With item #3, I hear rumblings of a PIP for GE, but years out.(as in 5 years, so RR has time).

ANA is an airline with a network that should add -10s. Possibly JAL, but I consider the possibility less likely.

I also expect the 787-10 to be contending for India LCCs. However, each order will be brutally fought, so I assume nothing.

Next year I expect a LH group order.

49 orders in a year is healthy. I expect a few more, but nothing dramatic. I hope to be surprised on the upside.

Lightsaber


ANA has the -10. But I’d expect a top up order
 
A388
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:28 pm

Yes, ANA should have recently taken delivery of their first 787-10 (registration: JA901A).

A388
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:54 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
It all depends on how much the rumored empty weight reduction and MTOW really is. My opinion is the payload range curve needs expansion:
1. Empty weight reduction increase kg for kg payload at all ranges.
2. MTOW weight increase adds payload above 4500nm.
3. Thrust bump. Stretches always have poor hot/high. I don't expect much more thrust, but I hear rumors of something in the works.
4. Engine PIP. With item #3, I hear rumblings of a PIP for GE, but years out.(as in 5 years, so RR has time).

ANA is an airline with a network that should add -10s. Possibly JAL, but I consider the possibility less likely.

I also expect the 787-10 to be contending for India LCCs. However, each order will be brutally fought, so I assume nothing.

Next year I expect a LH group order.

49 orders in a year is healthy. I expect a few more, but nothing dramatic. I hope to be surprised on the upside.

Lightsaber


ANA has the -10. But I’d expect a top up order

I wrote poorly. I expect the -10 to become their primary model.
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SRQLOT
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:59 pm

I think LOT could really use the 787-10 not only to ORD, JFK, NRT and ICN, but also PEK where it can so far only get 3 days a week and they would like to fly 2x daily. DEL is selling extremely well too.
With the whole MAX fiasco maybe Boeing can throw some big discounts around. And RR 50% off engines for their fiasco.
 
kimimm19
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:00 pm

I expect BA to order more. They only have 12 on the order books and with range not being a problem to the US for them, I would expect them to use the economics of the aircraft and the fact that it's the largest of the dreamliner family and the whole slot restriction with LHR.
 
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keesje
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:06 pm

Airlines with a strong Atlantic focus, Intra Asia. Transpac without serious cargo next to passengers isn't a big market. Same as A333.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:13 pm

keesje wrote:
Airlines with a strong Atlantic focus, Intra Asia. Transpac without serious cargo next to passengers isn't a big market. Same as A333.

With the range increase, add
1. US West coast to EU (with cargo).
2. US Northwest to North Asia (ok, only UA)
3. India to EU and Asia


Thinking about this, SQ should be expected to top off.

I see a market for another 600 to 1200 787-10, plus more 788 and mostly 789.

I see a market to maintain the 168/year production for a while. For the A321 is sans cargo. So saying there is little market for the 787-10 implies little market for a plane I expect to thrive (A321xLR). I'll apply consistent logic.

India to EU/China it will be a combi.

Lightsaber
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musman9853
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:21 pm

AA is almost certainly going to buy more 787s, but not anytime I don't think considering they ordered 50 last year. but in a few years as the 777s start to age I could definitely see a 78J order
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
musman9853
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:23 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:

United is about to confirm 11 more units for a total of 25
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/mainline-fleet-tracking

do we have any other sources on that united order? googled but cant find anything
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:26 pm

musman9853 wrote:
AA is almost certainly going to buy more 787s, but not anytime I don't think considering they ordered 50 last year. but in a few years as the 777s start to age I could definitely see a 78J order

I expect AA to order in small batches here and there.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:59 pm

A388 wrote:
Yes, ANA should have recently taken delivery of their first 787-10 (registration: JA901A).

A388


That is their 2nd 787-10, their first was JA900A
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:00 pm

musman9853 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:

United is about to confirm 11 more units for a total of 25
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/mainline-fleet-tracking

do we have any other sources on that united order? googled but cant find anything


$2 Billion capital commitments by publicly traded U.S. carriers get disclosed in SEC docs (and, typically, carrier press releases). When it's final we'll know it.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:24 pm

For AC a great addition / replacement for the A330-300 fleet, seamless commonality with the 787-8's and 9's too re: training. Just might be some good deals for AC after the MAX debacle.
 
amirs
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:42 pm

Definitely for EL AL, probably in 5 years to start replacing their 772
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:52 pm

Perhaps in the distant future Hawaiian would take the 787-10 to replace the A330 on high desnity routes. That would also provide greater efficiency at a rather small airline.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:02 pm

musman9853 wrote:
AA is almost certainly going to buy more 787s, but not anytime I don't think considering they ordered 50 last year. but in a few years as the 777s start to age I could definitely see a 78J order


I was surprised AA ordered just 788s and 789s with that 2nd 787 order. Especially after their bone headed move removing J seats from the 788.
 
VV
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:10 pm

It is possible there will be another 300 787-10 orders in total between now and end of 2021 and I am not joking.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:56 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
This year has been good for the Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner, orders for Korean Air 20 units and orders for Air New Zealand 8.

KLM increases its fleet its fleet from 8 units to 15.
https://nieuws.klm.com/de-air-france-klm-groep-zet-een-volgende-stap-in-de-optimalisatie-van-de-lange-afstandsvloot/

United is about to confirm 11 more units for a total of 25
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/mainline-fleet-tracking

The largest brother of the Dreamliner family is the next to lead the transatlantic market and the high density of Asia-Pacific.
What will be the next airlines to add this model to their fleets?

My expectations are these:

American Airlines (AA)
Definitely AA will add this model to its fleet is perfect to replace the Boeing 777-200ER in high density routes in Latin America such as MIA-GRU / EZE / SCL, European routes such as DFW-FRA / CDG / MAD / LHR, JFK-MXP / CDG / MAD / LHR and MIA-LHR / MAD / CDG / MXP or increase capacity in Asia on routes such as LAX-NRT / HND / PEK or add new destinations such as LAX-ICN

EL AL (LY)
LY has just lost significant capacity with the departure of the Boeing 747-400 but improves its operability and effeciency with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, the Boeing 787-10 is perfect for its flagship routes such as TLV-JFK / EWR and high demand routes such as TLV-BKK

LOT Polish (LO)
An airline that has expanded rapidly, began as the Boeing 787-8 and then the Boeing 787-9, why not the Boeing 787-10? LOT hopes to further expand its fleet, this model is ideal for the most popular routes such as WAW-JFK / LAX / YYZ / ORD / NRT / ICN

Thai Airways (TG)
This is your best option to replace your old Boeing 777 Classic (-200 / -300) and better optimize your domestic and regional network, this model would be perfect for your high capacity missions Japan is one of the largest markets of TG this model it can perfectly serve on routes such as BKK-NRT / HND / KIX / NGO / FUK / CTS, or other high demansa destinations in Asia such as BKK-DEL / BOM / PVG / PEK / ICN / TPE

Air Canada (AC)
This is the perfect model for its large hubs like YYZ and YUL for the European market would be ideal for destinations such as LHR, FRA, MUC, CDG and FCO

Qantas (QF)
QF is falling in love with the Boeing 787! this has great expectations in the future for its fleet is perfect to add more capacity in its destinations in Asia routes such as BNE / MEL / SYD-SIN, MEL / BNE-NRT, BNE / MEL / SYD-HKG




TLV-BKK might not be as it has to fly around the Middle eastern countries to get there. Adding quite a bit of distance
 
musman9853
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:55 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:

United is about to confirm 11 more units for a total of 25
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/mainline-fleet-tracking

do we have any other sources on that united order? googled but cant find anything


$2 Billion capital commitments by publicly traded U.S. carriers get disclosed in SEC docs (and, typically, carrier press releases). When it's final we'll know it.


thanks. so we know that there's a deal underway, but its not official yet.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
musman9853
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:58 am

lightsaber wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
AA is almost certainly going to buy more 787s, but not anytime I don't think considering they ordered 50 last year. but in a few years as the 777s start to age I could definitely see a 78J order

I expect AA to order in small batches here and there.

Lightsaber


agreed, top off orders every few years as needed seems to be aa's fleet plan for the WBs.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
amirs
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:32 am

rbavfan wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
This year has been good for the Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner, orders for Korean Air 20 units and orders for Air New Zealand 8.

KLM increases its fleet its fleet from 8 units to 15.
https://nieuws.klm.com/de-air-france-klm-groep-zet-een-volgende-stap-in-de-optimalisatie-van-de-lange-afstandsvloot/

United is about to confirm 11 more units for a total of 25
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/mainline-fleet-tracking

The largest brother of the Dreamliner family is the next to lead the transatlantic market and the high density of Asia-Pacific.
What will be the next airlines to add this model to their fleets?

My expectations are these:

American Airlines (AA)
Definitely AA will add this model to its fleet is perfect to replace the Boeing 777-200ER in high density routes in Latin America such as MIA-GRU / EZE / SCL, European routes such as DFW-FRA / CDG / MAD / LHR, JFK-MXP / CDG / MAD / LHR and MIA-LHR / MAD / CDG / MXP or increase capacity in Asia on routes such as LAX-NRT / HND / PEK or add new destinations such as LAX-ICN

EL AL (LY)
LY has just lost significant capacity with the departure of the Boeing 747-400 but improves its operability and effeciency with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, the Boeing 787-10 is perfect for its flagship routes such as TLV-JFK / EWR and high demand routes such as TLV-BKK

LOT Polish (LO)
An airline that has expanded rapidly, began as the Boeing 787-8 and then the Boeing 787-9, why not the Boeing 787-10? LOT hopes to further expand its fleet, this model is ideal for the most popular routes such as WAW-JFK / LAX / YYZ / ORD / NRT / ICN

Thai Airways (TG)
This is your best option to replace your old Boeing 777 Classic (-200 / -300) and better optimize your domestic and regional network, this model would be perfect for your high capacity missions Japan is one of the largest markets of TG this model it can perfectly serve on routes such as BKK-NRT / HND / KIX / NGO / FUK / CTS, or other high demansa destinations in Asia such as BKK-DEL / BOM / PVG / PEK / ICN / TPE

Air Canada (AC)
This is the perfect model for its large hubs like YYZ and YUL for the European market would be ideal for destinations such as LHR, FRA, MUC, CDG and FCO

Qantas (QF)
QF is falling in love with the Boeing 787! this has great expectations in the future for its fleet is perfect to add more capacity in its destinations in Asia routes such as BNE / MEL / SYD-SIN, MEL / BNE-NRT, BNE / MEL / SYD-HKG




TLV-BKK might not be as it has to fly around the Middle eastern countries to get there. Adding quite a bit of distance


TLV - BKK is still doable with 787-10 - even the long way . It’s the same distance as TLV - NYC.
787-10 will only make sense for LY if it can do JFK and BKK economically
 
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777222LR
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:55 am

The amount of 787's flying across the Pacific now is astonishing. I was messing around on Flightradar24 the other day and was amazed at how many were out there.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:59 am

And here, I'll stir the pot a bit.... :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

So the lore has long been that DL finds the 788 and 789 too heavy to replace its 767s but too small for the 77E market; and the 78X decently sized, but too short ranged.

Well last December, Justin Hale and Emily Sylvester (Boeing's 787 product marketing manager and regional director of 787 marketing, respectively) had a nice lil' powwow with DL, where the topic at hand was (among other things) enhancements in the 78X.... to which I'm told by someone who may or may not have been in the room, the response by DL was that a 78X with similar range to their 77Es at current payload or better, would be "good fit for our network" and "quite the compelling prospect."

And now, we hear the first public rumblings of a significant weight adjustment, in both directions, for the 78X re: NZ's orders.

Image


So while I'm sure this will be met with a chorus of "give it up," and "you must hate A330NEOs/A350s," and any other litany of nonsense by people who can't understand context; all I'm saying here is that the timeline of events is interesting, and it will be really interesting to see what this airline (who has the resources to easily do anything) does.......................
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
NateGreat
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:07 am

LAX772LR wrote:
And here, I'll stir the pot a bit.... :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

So the lore has long been that DL finds the 788 and 789 too heavy to replace its 767s but too small for the 77E market; and the 78X decently sized, but too short ranged.

Well last December, Justin Hale and Emily Sylvester (Boeing's 787 product marketing manager and regional director of 787 marketing, respectively) had a nice lil' powwow with DL, where the topic at hand was (among other things) enhancements in the 78X.... to which I'm told by someone who may or may not have been in the room, the response by DL was that a 78X with similar range to their 77Es at current payload or better, would be "good fit for our network" and "quite the compelling prospect."

And now, we hear the first public rumblings of a significant weight adjustment, in both directions, for the 78X re: NZ's orders.

Image


So while I'm sure this will be met with a chorus of "give it up," and "you must hate A330NEOs/A350s," and any other litany of nonsense by people who can't understand context; all I'm saying here is that the timeline of events is interesting, and it will be really interesting to see what this airline (who has the resources to easily do anything) does.......................

I gotta say, the 78X looks rather sharp in DL colors.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:12 am

NateGreat wrote:
I gotta say, the 78X looks rather sharp in DL colors.

Agree, though I've really yet to find a livery that 78X doesn't look fab in!

I do wonder though if DL would paint the rakes like that, were they to acquire them.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:18 am

LAX772LR wrote:
And here, I'll stir the pot a bit.... :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

So the lore has long been that DL finds the 788 and 789 too heavy to replace its 767s but too small for the 77E market; and the 78X decently sized, but too short ranged.

Well last December, Justin Hale and Emily Sylvester (Boeing's 787 product marketing manager and regional director of 787 marketing, respectively) had a nice lil' powwow with DL, where the topic at hand was (among other things) enhancements in the 78X.... to which I'm told by someone who may or may not have been in the room, the response by DL was that a 78X with similar range to their 77Es at current payload or better, would be "good fit for our network" and "quite the compelling prospect."

And now, we hear the first public rumblings of a significant weight adjustment, in both directions, for the 78X re: NZ's orders.

Image


So while I'm sure this will be met with a chorus of "give it up," and "you must hate A330NEOs/A350s," and any other litany of nonsense by people who can't understand context; all I'm saying here is that the timeline of events is interesting, and it will be really interesting to see what this airline (who has the resources to easily do anything) does.......................


Justin is a Marketing Manager now? When I knew him he was a Chief Mechanic. Hell of a nice guy. I’m sure he’s doing very well in the role you refer to.

I think the 787 would have a nice niche in DL’s line up. Might be the right plane to make thinner markets like SLC-ICN, PDX-ICN, and SEA-HKG work.
 
NateGreat
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:22 am

LAX772LR wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
I gotta say, the 78X looks rather sharp in DL colors.

Agree, though I've really yet to find a livery that 78X doesn't look fab in!

I do wonder though if DL would paint the rakes like that, were they to acquire them.

I didn’t even notice the blue rakes. I just wish they painted the sharklets on the A339 the same as the ones on the A350.

On which routes are you thinking they would deploy the 78X, in terms of both range and capacity? Routes like AMS/CDG/LHR, or routes like HND/ICN/PVG?
 
NateGreat
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:24 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
And here, I'll stir the pot a bit.... :stirthepot: :stirthepot:

So the lore has long been that DL finds the 788 and 789 too heavy to replace its 767s but too small for the 77E market; and the 78X decently sized, but too short ranged.

Well last December, Justin Hale and Emily Sylvester (Boeing's 787 product marketing manager and regional director of 787 marketing, respectively) had a nice lil' powwow with DL, where the topic at hand was (among other things) enhancements in the 78X.... to which I'm told by someone who may or may not have been in the room, the response by DL was that a 78X with similar range to their 77Es at current payload or better, would be "good fit for our network" and "quite the compelling prospect."

And now, we hear the first public rumblings of a significant weight adjustment, in both directions, for the 78X re: NZ's orders.

Image


So while I'm sure this will be met with a chorus of "give it up," and "you must hate A330NEOs/A350s," and any other litany of nonsense by people who can't understand context; all I'm saying here is that the timeline of events is interesting, and it will be really interesting to see what this airline (who has the resources to easily do anything) does.......................


Justin is a Marketing Manager now? When I knew him he was a Chief Mechanic. Hell of a nice guy. I’m sure he’s doing very well in the role you refer to.

I think the 787 would have a nice niche in DL’s line up. Might be the right plane to make thinner markets like SLC-ICN, PDX-ICN, and SEA-HKG work.

Plus, it seems like the right sized plane to fit all 4 cabin products: Delta One Suites/Delta Premium Select/Comfort+/Main Cabin.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:28 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
My expectations are these:

Qantas (QF)
QF is falling in love with the Boeing 787! this has great expectations in the future for its fleet is perfect to add more capacity in its destinations in Asia routes such as BNE / MEL / SYD-SIN, MEL / BNE-NRT, BNE / MEL / SYD-HKG

I would not count on QF just YET!
Which aircraft of this class will be chosen is dependent on the aircraft chosen for Project Sunrise.
IF the B778 is chosen then the B78X is very likely, however IF the A350-1000 is chosen then it will most likely be th A330/A350 family. It's the PS specifications that will decide the aircraft chosen for PS, the B78X/A330/350 considerations will be very secondary, it's the PS aircraft that will determine QFs long term survial.

Gemuser
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:59 am

NateGreat wrote:
On which routes are you thinking they would deploy the 78X, in terms of both range and capacity? Routes like AMS/CDG/LHR, or routes like HND/ICN/PVG?

They'd have to get it first.

But if we're speaking under the assumption that they eventually do, then I think a big factor into where it goes may be if they get the 789 alongside it.

Second factor will be how they configure it: they can get a lotttttt of premium seats between the A & B seconds of that aircraft, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it heavily premium-outfitted. If so, look for it into the likes of LHR, the two primary Euro hubs, HND, and other destinations where they fend to fly the likes of the high-premium 764ERs.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:30 am

If AZ ever gets its house in order, I can see them getting a few of these as part of a much broader fleet renewal.
 
musman9853
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:39 am

Gemuser wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
My expectations are these:

Qantas (QF)
QF is falling in love with the Boeing 787! this has great expectations in the future for its fleet is perfect to add more capacity in its destinations in Asia routes such as BNE / MEL / SYD-SIN, MEL / BNE-NRT, BNE / MEL / SYD-HKG

I would not count on QF just YET!
Which aircraft of this class will be chosen is dependent on the aircraft chosen for Project Sunrise.
IF the B778 is chosen then the B78X is very likely, however IF the A350-1000 is chosen then it will most likely be th A330/A350 family. It's the PS specifications that will decide the aircraft chosen for PS, the B78X/A330/350 considerations will be very secondary, it's the PS aircraft that will determine QFs long term survial.

Gemuser



Really doubt qf gets the a330neo when they already have a sizable fleet of 788s and 789s to fulfill that niche. No point increasing fleet complexity for no reason
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whywhyzee
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:39 am

For AC, I've said for a while the 787-10 could be the perfect aircraft. It can do anywhere in their European network, and asides from YYZ-FRA/LHR and YUL-CDG, which need the size of the 77W consistently year round on most frequencies, it makes sense. They could run one configuration at around 40/28/260 for routes like ZRH, MUC, AMS and CPH with higher J demand, and one at 28/28/300 for routes like DUB and FCO with high volume but lower premium demand. The whole fleet could probably be around 20 frames accounting for some future growth, and the eventual replacement of the A330s.

With all that being said, because the A333 fleet is growing, and proving to be a very cost effective tool for replacing the 767 and expanding moderately, I can't see AC biting for any more 787s for a couple years at least. The earliest I would want to start taking any of I were them would be the early to mid 2020s, as the A333s start to get into their early to mid 20s. Grow slowly first, and then use subsequent deliveries to grow and replace the A333s 1 for 1.
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:43 am

I love Airbus, but to see the 78X and either the 789 or 788 in DL colors would be fantastic, and much needed for their fleet modernization and replacement
 
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WALmsp
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:29 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Perhaps in the distant future Hawaiian would take the 787-10 to replace the A330 on high desnity routes. That would also provide greater efficiency at a rather small airline.


HA has ordered the 789.
https://simpleflying.com/hawaiian-airli ... eing-787s/
In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
 
sabby
Posts: 322
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:32 am

TK, AC, QF, LX, maybe CX/KA , ET and AF. 787-10 can replace A333 (growth), 77E and even 77W for airlines with fewer premium demand.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4976
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:59 am

musman9853 wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
My expectations are these:

Qantas (QF)
QF is falling in love with the Boeing 787! this has great expectations in the future for its fleet is perfect to add more capacity in its destinations in Asia routes such as BNE / MEL / SYD-SIN, MEL / BNE-NRT, BNE / MEL / SYD-HKG

I would not count on QF just YET!
Which aircraft of this class will be chosen is dependent on the aircraft chosen for Project Sunrise.
IF the B778 is chosen then the B78X is very likely, however IF the A350-1000 is chosen then it will most likely be th A330/A350 family. It's the PS specifications that will decide the aircraft chosen for PS, the B78X/A330/350 considerations will be very secondary, it's the PS aircraft that will determine QFs long term survial.

Gemuser



Really doubt qf gets the a330neo when they already have a sizable fleet of 788s and 789s to fulfill that niche. No point increasing fleet complexity for no reason

So do I, but NEVER SAY NEVER in any aspect of aviation.

Gemuser
 
moa999
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:00 am

musman9853 wrote:
Really doubt qf gets the a330neo when they already have a sizable fleet of 788s and 789s to fulfill that niche. No point increasing fleet complexity for no reason


Equally don't see QF. The 330 fleet still has some life left.
Might be one more small order of 789s, then onto 777/350 deliveries, plus 321XLRs.

If anything once Jetstar gets its 321LRs and later XLRs they may send some 788s back to QF.

And ideally Qantas would likely want a cheap capable 797 for domestic routes
 
uta999
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:47 am

Will the 787-10 be stretched (-11, -12) any further, or does that require new gear/wing/engines?

It seems too near the ground, much like the 737 to get any longer.
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Ronaldo747
Posts: 320
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:05 am

With the rumoured PIP I think Lufthansa is back in the game for the 787-10, too. Could replace all the A333 and A343.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:58 am

moa999 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Really doubt qf gets the a330neo when they already have a sizable fleet of 788s and 789s to fulfill that niche. No point increasing fleet complexity for no reason


Equally don't see QF. The 330 fleet still has some life left.
Might be one more small order of 789s, then onto 777/350 deliveries, plus 321XLRs.

If anything once Jetstar gets its 321LRs and later XLRs they may send some 788s back to QF.

And ideally Qantas would likely want a cheap capable 797 for domestic routes


Personally I’d see QF getting 78Js as an A333 replacement at least for some of the busier routes into Asia.

They may end up with JQ 788s weather they would use them domestically or long haul remains to be seen.
 
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OA940
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:06 am

Honestly can't see LOT going for such a big plane. The 789 is pretty good in their plans, and they only have a couple of routes where the -10 would be viable. Idk about AC, but again I'm not expecting a -10 order from them. Same goes for QF. They have showed no indication of needing a -10 kind of aircraft. If anything they're gonna topup the 789 and maybe add some -8s to replace the A330s when it's their time to go, maybe some NMAs if Boeing ever launches that, and, like they said, the Sunrise aircraft. As for Delta I kinda could see it, but with the A350 in the fleet the odds are more towards Airbus on this one, especially since they're gonna need to replace the 77L at some point. Thai has a complicated enough fleet so never say never to them. They could order some IL-96s and I wouldn't be surprised

LY is very probable, and I would expect AA to become one of the largest -10 operators eventually, considering their large 77E fleet and the boost in range the -10 now has. ANA is probably gonna place a topup soon enough, while JAL is also a candidate, but with the A350 now in the fleet I wouldn't hold my breath. Otherwise I mainly see the -10 in Asia, flying trunk routes. In general I believe you'll be seeing the -10 where the A330-300 currently is (ofc that's a huge generalization but you get the point)
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Scotron12
Posts: 58
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:39 am

Has it been offically confirmed that the 787-10 has gotten this range bump?? I can find no statement from Boeing that this so.
 
sixfootscream
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:28 pm

Emirates
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:58 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
Has it been offically confirmed that the 787-10 has gotten this range bump?? I can find no statement from Boeing that this so.

We know

“The 787-10 is longer and even more fuel efficient. However, the game changer for us has been that by working closely with Boeing, we've ensured the 787-10 will meet our network needs, including the ability to fly missions similar to our current 777-200 fleet.

https://www.airnewzealand.com/press-rel ... reamliners

So there is some range bump. In discussing AKL-EWR there was an efficiency improvement discussion. Hinting at an engine PIP:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industri ... ork-direct


There have been hints of an empty weight reduction. It would be a surprise if Boeing wasn't trying to reduce weight in a new model.

There are also hints of a MTOW increase. The magnitude of both are pure speculation.

But yes, we know the 787-10 payload at range will improve. The question is by how much?

The fact it burns 25% less fuel than a 777-200ER makes it a sure seller.

Lightsaber
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ist2014
Posts: 386
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Re: Future operators of Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner

Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:16 pm

I think 787-10 would be a great addition to TK s fleet. Can do our european/cis/me/indian sub continent and some of far east routes.
I have one question: how 787-10 can handle TK s us routes, can it easily handle : iad,atl,iah,mia and ord or not? If yes a great machine which will be smaller than 77w so better load factors as well

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