TMccrury
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Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:17 pm

A Hawaiian Airlines passenger, has been ordered by a judge to pay 172g in for causing the flight to return to HNL. He had drunk a bottle of whisky and became unruly shortly after takeoff. He will also spend 6 months in jail.


https://www.foxnews.com/travel/drunk-ha ... ly-landing
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:14 pm

Forget the non-standard numbering, what aircraft is this incredibly relevant and informative photograph from the article:

Image

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
MON
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:07 pm

Good on the judge for passing on the costs to the criminal.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:14 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Forget the non-standard numbering, what aircraft is this incredibly relevant and informative photograph from the article:

Image

V/F


That is an old fatory promo pic from when seats had cushions, padding and leg room.They never put overhead bins on the pics for those seats back then. Not also Aircraft do not have wood look tile for the isles & neither do trains.
Last edited by rbavfan on Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:29 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Forget the non-standard numbering, what aircraft is this incredibly relevant and informative photograph from the article:

Image

V/F


That's looks like a train to me. Notice how there's no overhead that you can see.
 
910A
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:42 pm

Since the passenger is South Korean, good luck collecting one cent once he returns to his homeland.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:51 pm

LTCM wrote:
FlyThiz wrote:
What is 172G? It’s supposed to be $172K.


It's no more supposed to be 176k than 176m or 176g.

So many units of measurement being thrown around here. Where to begin?

172g? That’s only about 6oz. They’re a bit short if they’re after a pound of flesh.

172K? That works out to -101°C or -150°F - you couldn’t get that cold even if you were chucked out of the aircraft at FL400.

172m? That’s 188 yards. That would be going the whole nine yards nearly 21 times.

172G? Well, G in scientific notation would refer to 10^9. I’m not sure if a payment of $172,000,000,000 really fits the bill either.

Perhaps it was a Cessna 172G?



$172k would appear to be the notation they are after.

V/F
Last edited by VirginFlyer on Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
smartplane
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:53 pm

910A wrote:
Since the passenger is South Korean, good luck collecting one cent once he returns to his homeland.

Travel insurance?

Airlines increasingly try to recover for medical diversions from travel insurers, and pursue individuals with deep pockets where conditions are not disclosed.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:08 am

At the least, he won't be allowed to enter the USA for the rest of his life as has a criminal record and owes a money fine/civil judgment.
Being drunk on a plane is not only annoying to the other pax, but if an emergency, can be or put other people at risk in an evacuation or other actions. Glad he is getting the bill for his stupidity.
 
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Goodbye
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:14 am

172g?
✈︎
 
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zeke
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:20 am

Goodbye wrote:
172g?


The US is not metric, they use grands and quarters, inches, feet etc
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:35 am

$172,000, 172 Grand
 
AngMoh
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:59 am

Isn't it USD 1.72 lakhs?
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 742 743 744 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:17 am

Don’t use rupees here
 
rbavfan
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:24 am

smartplane wrote:
910A wrote:
Since the passenger is South Korean, good luck collecting one cent once he returns to his homeland.

Travel insurance?

Airlines increasingly try to recover for medical diversions from travel insurers, and pursue individuals with deep pockets where conditions are not disclosed.


As a South Korean that country holds you accountable. Ask the daughter of Korean Airlines aboutt he outburst over nuts and her treatment of the employees that embarrassed the country, cost her her job, a fine & jail time. I have a feeling he will not only have to pay the court ruling, but for embarrassing the country may do more time in jail & additional fines when he returns home.
 
tu204
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:29 am

Agree with the judge for passing the losses of the company on the the guy that caused it.

However sometimes I don't understand the reason some PIC's take the decision to divert due to an unruly passenger after he has been contained.

The article does mention that U.S. service members did restrain this guy so he was posing no threat. My decision would have been to continue on to the destination and let the guys take care of him there. I admit that I don't know everything, but from what's in the article - what's the point of dumping fuel, causing a headache for your dispatch for this?

In my book - divert only if the person is trying to gain access to the flight deck, threatens the fact that he/she has an explosive device (in which case I'd be inclined to request descent to FL100 and depressurise actually), or the person cannot be subdued.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:10 am

Instead of diverting to Honolulu, they should have taken a small detour to Pyongyang and kicked him off the plane.
 
c933103
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:29 am

zeke wrote:
Goodbye wrote:
172g?


The US is not metric, they use grands and quarters, inches, feet etc

Ah I thought it's 172g gold and wondered why they can't just use currency. But it's about same value anyway.
Say NO to Hong Kong police's cooperation with criminal organizations like triad.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:58 am

tu204 wrote:
In my book - divert only if the person is trying to gain access to the flight deck, threatens the fact that he/she has an explosive device (in which case I'd be inclined to request descent to FL100 and depressurise actually), or the person cannot be subdued.


Company Policy may call out for that, without regard to whether the man is tied up or no.

In that case, Company Policy has the force of law, so, no choice.
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:17 am

smartplane wrote:
910A wrote:
Since the passenger is South Korean, good luck collecting one cent once he returns to his homeland.

Travel insurance?

Airlines increasingly try to recover for medical diversions from travel insurers, and pursue individuals with deep pockets where conditions are not disclosed.


There's a big difference between medical diversion and diversion because of unruly behaviour. No insurance company covers fines (not that I know of, to be precise) but paying for medical emergency may be one of the purposes of a travel insurance so they can be asked to pay for that.
 
Heinkel
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:07 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
$172,000, 172 Grand


Correct. Even as a German I do understand that.
 
Heinkel
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:14 am

tu204 wrote:
However sometimes I don't understand the reason some PIC's take the decision to divert due to an unruly passenger after he has been contained.

The article does mention that U.S. service members did restrain this guy so he was posing no threat. My decision would have been to continue on to the destination and let the guys take care of him there. I admit that I don't know everything, but from what's in the article - what's the point of dumping fuel, causing a headache for your dispatch for this?

In my book - divert only if the person is trying to gain access to the flight deck, threatens the fact that he/she has an explosive device (in which case I'd be inclined to request descent to FL100 and depressurise actually), or the person cannot be subdued.


Really not sure if this verdict will stand in an appeals procedure. At least, when the convict has a good lawyer.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:01 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
$172k would appear to be the notation they are after.


How about 172 Haitian gourdes (G)?
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:46 pm

tu204 wrote:
Agree with the judge for passing the losses of the company on the the guy that caused it.

However sometimes I don't understand the reason some PIC's take the decision to divert due to an unruly passenger after he has been contained.

The article does mention that U.S. service members did restrain this guy so he was posing no threat. My decision would have been to continue on to the destination and let the guys take care of him there. I admit that I don't know everything, but from what's in the article - what's the point of dumping fuel, causing a headache for your dispatch for this?

In my book - divert only if the person is trying to gain access to the flight deck, threatens the fact that he/she has an explosive device (in which case I'd be inclined to request descent to FL100 and depressurise actually), or the person cannot be subdued.

So you want to have the Good Samaritan servicemen held responsible for the rest of the flight to keep the offender subdued? They are not crewmembers and are putting themselves at risk for the common good, for no reward. And it was undoubtedly a severe annoyance to the surrounding passengers as well. I’m sure none of the involved parties was remotely interested in continuing the scene for another several hours. It was absolutely correct to return.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
ELBOB
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:41 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Company Policy may call out for that, without regard to whether the man is tied up or no.

In that case, Company Policy has the force of law, so, no choice.


And will the airline compensate the other passengers for costs and inconvenience resulting from such a policy? Of course not, air travel is entirely one-sided in the favour of the corporation.

The fact that they can include a demand for repayment of 'diversion costs' in the COC is an example of that.
 
tu204
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:57 pm

ELBOB wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Company Policy may call out for that, without regard to whether the man is tied up or no.

In that case, Company Policy has the force of law, so, no choice.


And will the airline compensate the other passengers for costs and inconvenience resulting from such a policy? Of course not, air travel is entirely one-sided in the favour of the corporation.

The fact that they can include a demand for repayment of 'diversion costs' in the COC is an example of that.


Allright I accept the arguments above to my previous post.

However I would say that the other passengers aren't as big of losers as the airline here.

There's prolly not a chance in hell that they will get compensated their incurred losses from the diversion, but the passengers did get to the final destination... eventually and didn't incur any extra costs.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:26 am

The man gets drunk and the judge decides to ruin his life because of it? You guys agree with this? Disgusting.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:29 am

Lots of publications have repeated the story with the Associated Press reference. Google doesn't find the original AP reference, nor can I find it on ap.org.

Is this restitution ordered by a South Korean judge, and Hawaiian judge, or a U.S. federal judge?
 
sixfootscream
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:56 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
The man gets drunk and the judge decides to ruin his life because of it? You guys agree with this? Disgusting.


Well yes. He caused an aircraft to land early inconveniencing passengers and costing the airlines thousands of dollars. No my issue he can't hold his liquor. He has no one, but himself to blame!
 
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admanager
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:16 am

His life isn't ruined, he has a short stint in jail and a $172,000 fine. The average American household carries $137,063 in debt, according to the Federal Reserve's latest numbers. He will not be returning to the US in any event.
My question is how did he get to the airport duty free shop while in custody of immigration officers while being deported.
Edited to add source for being in custody.
https://simpleflying.com/hawaiian-airli ... passenger/
 
Sokes
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:25 pm

tu204 wrote:
However sometimes I don't understand the reason some PIC's take the decision to divert due to an unruly passenger after he has been contained.
The article does mention that U.S. service members did restrain this guy so he was posing no threat. My decision would have been to continue on to the destination and let the guys take care of him there


SEPilot wrote:
So you want to have the Good Samaritan servicemen held responsible for the rest of the flight to keep the offender subdued? They are not crewmembers and are putting themselves at risk for the common good, for no reward. And it was undoubtedly a severe annoyance to the surrounding passengers as well. I’m sure none of the involved parties was remotely interested in continuing the scene for another several hours. It was absolutely correct to return.

So servicemen (plural) who are supposed to risk their lives if ordered shouldn't be able to handle a drunkard for a few hours?
They will be honored for their service. That is possibly one of the biggest rewards they get in their career.
The airline can give them a free flight.
I am not sure, but I suppose most of the involved parties were interested to arrive at their destination in time.

If somebody wonders why anybody would create such drama in a plane: "The mask of sanity" from Hervey M. Cleckley describes such characters. They are as a rule harmless. No need to divert. (The book is available as free PDF in the internet.)

That story would fit nicely in certain TV serials. Big emotions for nothing.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:41 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
The man gets drunk and the judge decides to ruin his life because of it? You guys agree with this? Disgusting.


We don't know his circumstances, however if the money is a big problem for him, then maybe adding the jail was not necessary. On the other hand, if the attitude is because he has lots of money and thinks he can get away with anything, then yes put him a few months in jail.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:45 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
The man gets drunk and the judge decides to ruin his life because of it? You guys agree with this? Disgusting.


How do you know this ruins his life? Citation please.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Sokes
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:10 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
The man gets drunk and the judge decides to ruin his life because of it? You guys agree with this? Disgusting.


How do you know this ruins his life? Citation please.

According to Hervey Cleckley it's often the parents or the wives who make up for the damage. Spacepope is right. It may ruin his father's life instead.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:05 pm

Sokes wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
The man gets drunk and the judge decides to ruin his life because of it? You guys agree with this? Disgusting.


How do you know this ruins his life? Citation please.

According to Hervey Cleckley it's often the parents or the wives who make up for the damage. Spacepope is right. It may ruin his father's life instead.

In most countries you’re responsible for your actions whether you decided to get drunk or not (or used drugs). Nicknuzzii, I hope your’e not saying one should get off the hook for most everything in case you can prove you were drunk at the time!

V/F: Even car manufacturers can’t get the units right, writing KM/H instead of km/h just because it looks better (I assume is their reasoning).

/Fredrik
 
Sokes
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:24 am

FredrikHAD wrote:
Sokes wrote:
Spacepope wrote:

How do you know this ruins his life? Citation please.

According to Hervey Cleckley it's often the parents or the wives who make up for the damage. Spacepope is right. It may ruin his father's life instead.

In most countries you’re responsible for your actions whether you decided to get drunk or not (or used drugs). Nicknuzzii, I hope your’e not saying one should get off the hook for most everything in case you can prove you were drunk at the time!

V/F: Even car manufacturers can’t get the units right, writing KM/H instead of km/h just because it looks better (I assume is their reasoning).

/Fredrik

People do all kind of nonsense and on top of it they spoil Satan's good name.
Liquor should be prohibited, but otherwise alcohol can be good fun, and one shouldn't blame beer or wine for the doings of drunkards.

The title "The mask of sanity" indicates that there are a group of people who in daily interaction appear sane when they are not.
The book deals with the experience of a psychiatrist in a mental institution with these people.
Against expectation, they show all insight how harmful their behavior is. They can verbally express great plannings as to how to turn around their lives, which they however never take serious themselves. They are rather above average intelligence and have a high ability to charm people. The moment they are allowed out of the institution they may go to the next bar, get drunk and start a quarrel. Afterwards they may lay down to sleep in a gutter till the police picks them up and brings them back to the mental hospital. However they are misfits in mental hospitals. They are misfits in prison as well, as they usually take care not to hurt anybody seriously. They have a different outlook as to what is desirable in live. They are a nuisance to society, but they are a catastrophe for their relatives. I wonder if it is the male version of "self defeating personality disorder".
Are people starting a quarrel in a plane rather from developed or from developing countries or can't say? Self defeating personality is something I have often observed in India, but not in Germany. The diagnosis was dropped from the American DSM diagnosis scheme long ago.

I may be wrong as there may be different kind of people to start a drama in a plane. Anybody has some insight into the criminal history of one such case?

There should be a facility that pilots who face such a passenger can request the criminal record. If there are serious violent offences deviate, if not proceed.
That of course is just my layman opinion.

I didn't understand what you mean with the car manufacturers.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Sokes
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:07 pm

One more story. The misbehaving women committed suicide which contradicts my earlier statements. The people Cleckley describes don't commit suicide.
https://www.indiatoday.in/world/story/i ... 2019-07-04
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Passenger is ordered to pay 172G for causing early landing while drunk

Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:22 pm

Sokes wrote:
I didn't understand what you mean with the car manufacturers.

In post #7, VirginFlyer went on a rant about incorrect units used (G for thousand is not correct as it stands for giga, k/kilo means a thousand which would seem correct). I wanted to second him on that, mentioning that in my Volvo’s speedometer, it says KM/H where it should say km/h. KM/H means Kelvin Mega per Henry which makes no sense. I think a car manufacturer should know better. In a forum post, I can understand the use, but when V/F pointed it out, I took the opportunity to have a go as well.

I’m sad to hear about the suicide in your other post. Alcohol kills, that’s for sure.

/Fredrik

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