Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
 
TObound
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:39 pm

micstatic wrote:
Well clearly Delta has a better hard/soft product. But if I were based in a city like Chicago, Dallas, Houston, SF etc. I would not choose Delta. Nobody wants to connect if they have a choice.


tphuang wrote:

There are many reasons. The network fits you better. You like the ff program better. Getting upgrades on AA RJ out of NYC is almost automatic these days for EXP. You are tired of DL fanboys telling how great DL is. Other airlines have cheaper prices. And \ I know the prices will go up if competition goes away.

I had very few bad experience as AA elite. Never had an issue with their FC service. My experience on partner OW airlines were always really good.


Fair. Network and partners can trump a lot. Relying on getting upgrades on an RJ though? That's great for a handful of pax. But not great for the majority of pax and terrible for the airline's balance sheet.

tphuang wrote:

And A220 is only on a limited set of routes. Let's not pretend the majority of transcon flights on DL are not operated by the same 737-800/900 where the Y seats are 17 inch wide.


They've got 140 321s on the way. This isn't just about the 220s. Though, ending up on RJs less often, especially small RJs has gotta be a plus.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:42 pm

A great A220 route would be SEA-DFW. I am surprised DL has not launched it yet.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:42 pm

TObound wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
As it pertains to the hard product and pitch, I do think they’re deficient. I obviously understand why others disagree with that thought and I think they have plenty of good points. But it’s why I pointed the “why” behind my belief in my fact-based “rant” on seat pitch. I clearly don’t value seatback screens the way others do. That’s ok and that’s a debate that rages on plenty of other threads.


The reason you're getting pushback is that you seem to equate hard product to pitch in F entirely.

Guess what?

Hard product also includes seat width, overhead baggage space, aisle widths and yes those seatback screens you so snidely dismiss. Hard product also includes pitch in Y, which you don't seem to want to talk much about either.

When you have to narrow your argument to pitch in one class of the airplane to come out on top, that says everything.


JAMBOJET wrote:
And I don’t have a skin in the game. Steal away “my high value passengers” all you want. If Delta were the least bit relevant to me in chicago, maybe i’d care. I fly AA and UA all the time (United more lately for obvious reasons since the mechanic issue impacts aa at ORD so much) and the constant trashing of them by Delta fans gets a bit old.


I'm not even a DL regular, living in Canada. But I can appreciate that they are smarter than the average bear with this strategy. I love that they are squarely aiming their early 220s at UA and AA. I hope they do some solid damage.

Why don’t you go hop on delta.com and find all the Delta narrowbodies without 30” pitch in economy.
If you were to read what I wrote in previous posts, I have mentioned the Y cabin. The poster “questions” specifically referenced First class hard product and I replied to that.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:44 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
A great A220 route would be SEA-DFW. I am surprised DL has not launched it yet.

Agreed. Seems like a great plane for that route and also ORD-LAX if they ever decided to get on that route.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5232
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:47 pm

TObound wrote:
micstatic wrote:
Well clearly Delta has a better hard/soft product. But if I were based in a city like Chicago, Dallas, Houston, SF etc. I would not choose Delta. Nobody wants to connect if they have a choice.


tphuang wrote:

There are many reasons. The network fits you better. You like the ff program better. Getting upgrades on AA RJ out of NYC is almost automatic these days for EXP. You are tired of DL fanboys telling how great DL is. Other airlines have cheaper prices. And \ I know the prices will go up if competition goes away.

I had very few bad experience as AA elite. Never had an issue with their FC service. My experience on partner OW airlines were always really good.


Fair. Network and partners can trump a lot. Relying on getting upgrades on an RJ though? That's great for a handful of pax. But not great for the majority of pax and terrible for the airline's balance sheet.

tphuang wrote:

And A220 is only on a limited set of routes. Let's not pretend the majority of transcon flights on DL are not operated by the same 737-800/900 where the Y seats are 17 inch wide.


They've got 140 321s on the way. This isn't just about the 220s. Though, ending up on RJs less often, especially small RJs has gotta be a plus.


Most other airlines have A321 also and quite a few airlines will have A220 also. Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.
 
TObound
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:47 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
Why don’t you go hop on delta.com and find all the Delta narrowbodies without 30” pitch in economy.
If you were to read what I wrote in previous posts, I have mentioned the Y cabin. The poster “questions” specifically referenced First class hard product and I replied to that.


And just as others told you, a row or two of 30" pitch does not equate to DL having 30" pitch throughout Y.
 
TObound
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:55 pm

tphuang wrote:

Most other airlines have A321 also and quite a few airlines will have A220 also. Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


Early days. DL's new LGA concourse opens this fall. In another 3-4 years a significant portion of the LGA fleet will be 220s. It'll be a very different experience for New Yorkers in a couple of years.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5232
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:00 pm

TObound wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Most other airlines have A321 also and quite a few airlines will have A220 also. Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


Early days. DL's new LGA concourse opens this fall. In another 3-4 years a significant portion of the LGA fleet will be 220s. It'll be a very different experience for New Yorkers in a couple of years.


It just won't happen. This buildup has been going on for a long time. And the JFK redevelopment for the most part don't involve them. As long as fancy foreign airlines fly to NYC and as long as B6 continues to have a good product here, DL will continue to just be recognized as the best of the legacies.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:01 pm

TObound wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Why don’t you go hop on delta.com and find all the Delta narrowbodies without 30” pitch in economy.
If you were to read what I wrote in previous posts, I have mentioned the Y cabin. The poster “questions” specifically referenced First class hard product and I replied to that.


And just as others told you, a row or two of 30" pitch does not equate to DL having 30" pitch throughout Y.

And as I’ve asked those same people to no response, find and post any link that supports that assumption.
There may be one. I’ve just asked several times and no one seems to ever have any backup for that claim.
 
OneX123
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:29 pm

ScorpioMC3 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
This jet is a game changer. Delta can't get them fast enough. The main question is how long UAL and AA can sit on the sidelines. The E-jet can't compete, it's only 4 abreast.


I'm sure Dougie will find a way to squeeze in 6 abreast seating at 29 inch pitch and no PTVs. I definitely wish AA was acquiring A220s, but not if Dougie is still in charge.



Same with Kirby and his team of bean counters at United. Apparently the future is the CRJ550 :roll: .


I fly every week, Monday - Thursday, every. single. week. I've flown United, American, and Delta all for 90+ segments the past 1.5yrs. Outside of DL serving Kashi bars/Cheeze-Its, AA giving free booze in the exit row, and UA having the best chicken parm sandwich/burger in the sky, they are ALL THE SAME. Always makes me chuckle when I see this on here.
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:11 pm

micstatic wrote:
TObound wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
The DL A220 coach class is better than the AA 737 OASIS first class seat. And its more than JUST the seat, the entire hard and soft product of the two planes can't be compared. I think any reasonable human being would opt for the DL A220 coach seat over a F seat on the AA B737 OASIS design.


I wouldn't go that far. But I'll say this. If you're a young professional starting out on corporate travel, why would you choose UA and AA, unless mandated to by your employer? They don't think you're worth more than dirt until your company pays for F, which won't happen for a long time. While DL will give you a fantastic hard and soft product in Y and a decent product when you eventually get to the stage where you're flying in F.


Well clearly Delta has a better hard/soft product. But if I were based in a city like Chicago, Dallas, Houston, SF etc. I would not choose Delta. Nobody wants to connect if they have a choice.


I live in Dallas and ultimately decided against a status match on AA and will keep my Platinum status on DL and A-List on WN. Southwest's coach product is > AA Oasis, more legroom, nicer employees and not to mention a more convenient airport for flying. My EXP colleagues rarely get upgrades out of DFW - so as a Platinum on AA I'd be in the back all the time. If I'm heading east and If time allows I'll often choose to connect on DL vs an AA non-stop as the time it takes to drive and park at DFW often comes close to negating the time it takes to connect on DL out of DAL, plus on DL out of DFW you're more likely to be on an A220 or A319/320 which is a much better product than most of what I've flown on AA. DL out of DAL is very convenient for quick connections in ATL if I'm heading east. If you've ever been on a LUS A321 or not in MCE on an Oasis 737, you'll know why its worth WN/DL combo out of DAL/DFW. I've tried AA 8-9 times now - Always a disappointment including the time I paid for F class. So far enjoying the A220 out of DFW to many markets.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:18 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
TObound wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Why don’t you go hop on delta.com and find all the Delta narrowbodies without 30” pitch in economy.
If you were to read what I wrote in previous posts, I have mentioned the Y cabin. The poster “questions” specifically referenced First class hard product and I replied to that.


And just as others told you, a row or two of 30" pitch does not equate to DL having 30" pitch throughout Y.

And as I’ve asked those same people to no response, find and post any link that supports that assumption.
There may be one. I’ve just asked several times and no one seems to ever have any backup for that claim.


My friend who is a 30 year employee of DL says that indeed it is just the very last row, those five seats, all others are actually at 32" except a little more room around the exit row and of course Comfort Plus. For your benefit, I'm going to bring my tape measure on my next A220 flight so you can stop whining about "proof". Further, he states that the plane is adored by employees and customers alike - They are getting lots of positive comments.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
TObound
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:49 pm

fanoftristars wrote:

My friend who is a 30 year employee of DL says that indeed it is just the very last row, those five seats, all others are actually at 32" except a little more room around the exit row and of course Comfort Plus. For your benefit, I'm going to bring my tape measure on my next A220 flight so you can stop whining about "proof". Further, he states that the plane is adored by employees and customers alike - They are getting lots of positive comments.


Read the airways magazine article:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/analysi ... -at-delta/

They are asserting that pax know the difference between this aircraft and others (even if they don't know what specific type it is), with that one pilot suggesting they are stealing pax from AA.

The ultimate test is not the debate on here. It's whether DL grows marketshare and yield. I am looking forward to those reports in the years to come.
 
panamair
Posts: 4332
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:56 pm

tphuang wrote:
Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


I know you like to speak for the financial firm corporate traveller, all Asians who fly transpacific, but now you represent NYC too? :roll: :roll:
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:45 pm

TObound wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:

My friend who is a 30 year employee of DL says that indeed it is just the very last row, those five seats, all others are actually at 32" except a little more room around the exit row and of course Comfort Plus. For your benefit, I'm going to bring my tape measure on my next A220 flight so you can stop whining about "proof". Further, he states that the plane is adored by employees and customers alike - They are getting lots of positive comments.


Read the airways magazine article:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/analysi ... -at-delta/

They are asserting that pax know the difference between this aircraft and others (even if they don't know what specific type it is), with that one pilot suggesting they are stealing pax from AA.

The ultimate test is not the debate on here. It's whether DL grows marketshare and yield. I am looking forward to those reports in the years to come.


I've had several flight attendants tell me how often customers compliment how nice the aircraft its. They may not know what it is - but they notice a difference. The crews like to show it off as well and will often mention it during announcements. A friend of mine came to visit Dallas last month. She mentioned when I picked her up, "We were on some kind of fancy new plane with big windows..." I think most people notice. While DL's 739 is pretty awful in the way it was configured, the A220 is fantastic.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
max999
Posts: 1220
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:54 pm

OneX123 wrote:
ScorpioMC3 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

I'm sure Dougie will find a way to squeeze in 6 abreast seating at 29 inch pitch and no PTVs. I definitely wish AA was acquiring A220s, but not if Dougie is still in charge.



Same with Kirby and his team of bean counters at United. Apparently the future is the CRJ550 :roll: .


I fly every week, Monday - Thursday, every. single. week. I've flown United, American, and Delta all for 90+ segments the past 1.5yrs. Outside of DL serving Kashi bars/Cheeze-Its, AA giving free booze in the exit row, and UA having the best chicken parm sandwich/burger in the sky, they are ALL THE SAME. Always makes me chuckle when I see this on here.


I used to be a business traveler with the same travel schedule. I flew every single week. Frequent business travelers are the most profitable passengers for airlines.

I can speak from experience that the most valuable things for this passenger segment are reliability and consistency. You just want to get to your destination on time with as few delays and cancellations as possible. Delta has been winning in this regard because they have the best operational reliability of all US airlines. I remember from speaking to my colleagues that most frequent business travelers trust Delta to be the most reliable. Also, Delta has better quantifiable metrics for delays and cancellations than competitors. In turn they are the most profitable airline in the world for several years running.

tphuang wrote:

Most other airlines have A321 also and quite a few airlines will have A220 also. Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


DL does not need to be the most luxurious airline in order to win. They don't even market themselves as being really luxurious... It's not part of their image. See my response above why I think they are the most profitable airline in the world.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
airlineworker
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:13 pm

How about getting back to future routes and not comparing service between airlines.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5232
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:18 pm

panamair wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


I know you like to speak for the financial firm corporate traveller, all Asians who fly transpacific, but now you represent NYC too? :roll: :roll:


For some reason, I get the feeling that people are stalking me on this board.
 
Brandon757
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:39 pm

airlineworker wrote:
How about getting back to future routes and not comparing service between airlines.

It is funny isn't it? In some threads Mods jump ASAFP to lock if the thread gets off topic, but in others it just keeps going and going and going.
 
OneX123
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:59 pm

max999 wrote:
OneX123 wrote:
ScorpioMC3 wrote:


Same with Kirby and his team of bean counters at United. Apparently the future is the CRJ550 :roll: .


I fly every week, Monday - Thursday, every. single. week. I've flown United, American, and Delta all for 90+ segments the past 1.5yrs. Outside of DL serving Kashi bars/Cheeze-Its, AA giving free booze in the exit row, and UA having the best chicken parm sandwich/burger in the sky, they are ALL THE SAME. Always makes me chuckle when I see this on here.


I used to be a business traveler with the same travel schedule. I flew every single week. Frequent business travelers are the most profitable passengers for airlines.

I can speak from experience that the most valuable things for this passenger segment are reliability and consistency. You just want to get to your destination on time with as few delays and cancellations as possible. Delta has been winning in this regard because they have the best operational reliability of all US airlines. I remember from speaking to my colleagues that most frequent business travelers trust Delta to be the most reliable. Also, Delta has better quantifiable metrics for delays and cancellations than competitors. In turn they are the most profitable airline in the world for several years running.

tphuang wrote:

Most other airlines have A321 also and quite a few airlines will have A220 also. Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


DL does not need to be the most luxurious airline in order to win. They don't even market themselves as being really luxurious... It's not part of their image. See my response above why I think they are the most profitable airline in the world.


I can't argue with the metrics -- I just haven't noticed any reliability differences during my travels on the airlines. I'm based out of ORD, with frequent travel to ATL, so when weather hits one of those locations you're bound for delays on any (with the infrequent nightmare of weather at both). I choose AA/UA given that I'm based out of ORD and I would choose DL if I was out of Atlanta. I just don't find the flying experience all that different. When I was a DL gold I could never get upgraded to Economy+, but you are allowed to select it at purchase when of equivalent status at AA/UA -- that made a difference to me.
 
FF630
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:12 pm

Lots of opportunities to use this aircraft on long thin routes perhaps 3 to 5 times a week on each of the following from SEA,SFO or LAX depending on market, ORF,JAX,CHS,PVD,BDL

Maybe add a few more seats in First for transcontinental designated aircraft.
 
maximairways
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:05 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:00 pm

TObound wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

The top nonstop routes out of NYC that don't currently have mainline out of LGA on DL include LGA-BUF, LGA-CHS, LGA-CLT, LGA-CLE, LGA-CMH, LGA-IND, LGA-JAX, LGA-MCI, LGA-MKE, LGA-BNA, LGA-PIT, LGA-RDU, and LGA-STL. DL will very likely upgauge some of these routes to the A220 as most of these routes have enough demand for mainline nonstop service to LGA on A220's.

I agree that DL upgauging LGA-MCI nonstop service will probably happen as LGA-MCI is one of the top routes that doesn't currently have nonstop mainline service on DL.


That way of thinking presumes there's incremental demand at fares DL is willing to chase. DL operates (tomorrow) LGA-MCI with 5x E75/CR9. WN has 2x LGA-MCI. UA is the only carrier EWR-MCI with 3x E70 and 1x 319. Both DL and UA going to want to maintain frequency to promote hub connections. ITA Matrix shows no carrier on MCI-JFK.


Take an extreme assumption. DL swaps those 5 flights for 4 mainline 221 runs. That would add 14% in seats. But DL would actually be at the same (at minimum) or lower operating costs on the route, save a slot at LGA and offer a better product than all its competitors (possibly boosting yield). Overall, that might actually be a worthwhile swap.

The less extreme scenario would be a mixed operation of 2-3 221 flights. And 1-2 RJ runs. Same capacity. Lower frequency.


For the first couple years they flew the route DL was using A320 and A319s on BUF-LGA.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2455
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:36 am

reltney wrote:
Soon there will be Canabus everywhere!


That's a good one. Canabus.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
airlineworker
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:01 am

Would like to see a few A220's on two routes. LYH-ATL, good loads on AA's 5 daily flights to CLT. 2. HVN-ATL or DTW. AA doing very well on both PHL and CLT flights.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1433
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:06 am

Does anyone know the marketing schedule for new routes for the last 5 months of 2019?
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5293
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:19 am

FF630 wrote:
Lots of opportunities to use this aircraft on long thin routes perhaps 3 to 5 times a week on each of the following from SEA,SFO or LAX depending on market, ORF, JAX, CHS, PVD, BDL

Maybe add a few more seats in First for transcontinental designated aircraft.


1. Cut out SFO from the equation, because there is no way DL is using the 221 on any route from SFO to those locations.

2. I could see SEA/LAX-BDL, due to the strong industry ties. Everything else is harder to justify.

2a. From PVD DL only currently serves ATL & DTW, therefore MSP would likely be added first before LAX/SEA even come into play.
CHS is similar to PVD, MSP is only served seasonally from PVD, so hard to justify either LAX/SEA (especially since AS serves CHS)
ORF struggles to attract a lot of TCON service because a lot of the travel is gov't related (Read: Discounted travel and lack of F class demand)
JAX read CHS, plus DL has something like 13-14 daily flights on JAX-ATL, so hard to get DL to overfly that unless it is very lucrative

4. 3 to 5 times weekly service seems like an inefficient use of these aircraft, how about using the A220 to the core hubs (MSP/SLC) and making PVD/CHS/ORF/e.t.c-MSP/SLC 1-2x daily year-round. Probably makes more logistic and $$ sense, than testing the aircrafts range on a long & thin route
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2539
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:28 am

fanoftristars wrote:
TObound wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:

My friend who is a 30 year employee of DL says that indeed it is just the very last row, those five seats, all others are actually at 32" except a little more room around the exit row and of course Comfort Plus. For your benefit, I'm going to bring my tape measure on my next A220 flight so you can stop whining about "proof". Further, he states that the plane is adored by employees and customers alike - They are getting lots of positive comments.


Read the airways magazine article:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/analysi ... -at-delta/

They are asserting that pax know the difference between this aircraft and others (even if they don't know what specific type it is), with that one pilot suggesting they are stealing pax from AA.

The ultimate test is not the debate on here. It's whether DL grows marketshare and yield. I am looking forward to those reports in the years to come.


I've had several flight attendants tell me how often customers compliment how nice the aircraft its. They may not know what it is - but they notice a difference. The crews like to show it off as well and will often mention it during announcements. A friend of mine came to visit Dallas last month. She mentioned when I picked her up, "We were on some kind of fancy new plane with big windows..." I think most people notice. While DL's 739 is pretty awful in the way it was configured, the A220 is fantastic.


What is awful about the 739? I don't find it to be any worse than any of the other aircraft in the fleet. The 753 is in desperate need of a new interior and the A321 has some really jacked up overhead bins. If someone blind folded you and out you in a coach seat on a Delta plane you would have no idea what you were on. All are comfortable enough in F and the only comfortable coach seats are on the MD/717 two seat side or an E175.
 
TObound
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:58 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
TObound wrote:

Read the airways magazine article:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/analysi ... -at-delta/

They are asserting that pax know the difference between this aircraft and others (even if they don't know what specific type it is), with that one pilot suggesting they are stealing pax from AA.

The ultimate test is not the debate on here. It's whether DL grows marketshare and yield. I am looking forward to those reports in the years to come.


I've had several flight attendants tell me how often customers compliment how nice the aircraft its. They may not know what it is - but they notice a difference. The crews like to show it off as well and will often mention it during announcements. A friend of mine came to visit Dallas last month. She mentioned when I picked her up, "We were on some kind of fancy new plane with big windows..." I think most people notice. While DL's 739 is pretty awful in the way it was configured, the A220 is fantastic.


What is awful about the 739? I don't find it to be any worse than any of the other aircraft in the fleet. The 753 is in desperate need of a new interior and the A321 has some really jacked up overhead bins. If someone blind folded you and out you in a coach seat on a Delta plane you would have no idea what you were on. All are comfortable enough in F and the only comfortable coach seats are on the MD/717 two seat side or an E175.


The minute I rubbed shoulders with another person, I'd know it's a Boeing airplane.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3326
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:13 am

airlineworker wrote:
Would like to see a few A220's on two routes. LYH-ATL, good loads on AA's 5 daily flights to CLT. 2. HVN-ATL or DTW. AA doing very well on both PHL and CLT flights.


Those aren't the types of routes DL is using the A220 on. If DL decided to get back into LYH or to start HVN, it would almost certainly be on regional jets. Even if the routes performed really well and DL wanted to upgauge to mainline, I'd expect a 717 rather than a 221.

I don't believe DL has actually used the A220s to launch any new routes yet, but when they do, I'd look for them to be more along the lines of JFK-IAH, DTW-ELP, etc. Decently large markets that put the range and fuel efficiency of the A220 to good use.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2539
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:37 am

TObound wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:

I've had several flight attendants tell me how often customers compliment how nice the aircraft its. They may not know what it is - but they notice a difference. The crews like to show it off as well and will often mention it during announcements. A friend of mine came to visit Dallas last month. She mentioned when I picked her up, "We were on some kind of fancy new plane with big windows..." I think most people notice. While DL's 739 is pretty awful in the way it was configured, the A220 is fantastic.


What is awful about the 739? I don't find it to be any worse than any of the other aircraft in the fleet. The 753 is in desperate need of a new interior and the A321 has some really jacked up overhead bins. If someone blind folded you and out you in a coach seat on a Delta plane you would have no idea what you were on. All are comfortable enough in F and the only comfortable coach seats are on the MD/717 two seat side or an E175.


The minute I rubbed shoulders with another person, I'd know it's a Boeing airplane.


United's new 737-9 has the same seats as their A320/319. And I doubt you are rubbing shoulders on any 767 or 9 abreast 777. Such silliness from some of you.
 
TObound
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:43 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
TObound wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

What is awful about the 739? I don't find it to be any worse than any of the other aircraft in the fleet. The 753 is in desperate need of a new interior and the A321 has some really jacked up overhead bins. If someone blind folded you and out you in a coach seat on a Delta plane you would have no idea what you were on. All are comfortable enough in F and the only comfortable coach seats are on the MD/717 two seat side or an E175.


The minute I rubbed shoulders with another person, I'd know it's a Boeing airplane.


United's new 737-9 has the same seats as their A320/319. And I doubt you are rubbing shoulders on any 767 or 9 abreast 777. Such silliness from some of you.


Those 767s and 9-abreast 777s are getting awfully rare.
Though you're right to point out how much more likely they are on DL. Among many reasons why DL stands out among legacies.
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1669
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:55 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
TObound wrote:

Read the airways magazine article:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/analysi ... -at-delta/

They are asserting that pax know the difference between this aircraft and others (even if they don't know what specific type it is), with that one pilot suggesting they are stealing pax from AA.

The ultimate test is not the debate on here. It's whether DL grows marketshare and yield. I am looking forward to those reports in the years to come.


I've had several flight attendants tell me how often customers compliment how nice the aircraft its. They may not know what it is - but they notice a difference. The crews like to show it off as well and will often mention it during announcements. A friend of mine came to visit Dallas last month. She mentioned when I picked her up, "We were on some kind of fancy new plane with big windows..." I think most people notice. While DL's 739 is pretty awful in the way it was configured, the A220 is fantastic.


What is awful about the 739? I don't find it to be any worse than any of the other aircraft in the fleet. The 753 is in desperate need of a new interior and the A321 has some really jacked up overhead bins. If someone blind folded you and out you in a coach seat on a Delta plane you would have no idea what you were on. All are comfortable enough in F and the only comfortable coach seats are on the MD/717 two seat side or an E175.


739 has no mid cabin lavatory and is a mess when the carts are in the isle and over 150 people only have one bathroom at the front. They have limited Comfort+ seats. Their seats are narrower than the A321 and it’s noticeable.

I guess I give all 757s a pass because, let’s face it, 757s are cool. They just feel more roomy. You get to board at 2L with makes boarding easier. The 753s are the newest built and have the newer AVOD, better than the old AVOD on the 75H. They may not have the curved bins but they have the bigger bins.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
User avatar
SOBHI51
Posts: 3949
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:32 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:37 pm

Does Delta A220 have any flight to either DCA or IAD?
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
bpat777
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 1999 8:21 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:51 pm

I'm a medallion with DL and fly on both the 739ER and A321 frequently. I can understand the issue with the lavs all being in the rear but when it comes to comfort I see or feel no difference. I actually slightly prefer the 739ER because leaning against the window seems more comfortable compared to the A321 but both are nice rides.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2957
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
[



Most other airlines have A321 also and quite a few airlines will have A220 also. Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


DL is not a lux airline, they never claimed to be one nor has anyone on this website. What DL has in their arsenal, what their better at than UA, AA, B6 and just about every other single airline in the world, is being reliable and being on time. You obviously seem to fail to understand that.

About midday, every day, I go and look at the delayed stats and cancelled flight stats, and you always see the usual suspects at the top of the heap. B6 rarely ever has a day with less than 25% of their entire operation being delayed, even on a good weather day. UA and AA, they both seem to have gotten progressively worse.

However, to stay on topic, DL has been flying the A220 for less than a year now. People always forget that it takes time to make a route, or a plane, or a hub, really anything for that matter, to flourish.

Coincidently, DL just completed adding in seat entertainment to its 700th aircraft. UA/AA continue to remove them, and Blue, still considered to be a leisure, small market airline, cant really include them in the mix.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:28 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
A great A220 route would be SEA-DFW. I am surprised DL has not launched it yet.


Yeah, it's odd that SEA is the only DL hub with no non-stop to DFW (it wasn't much fun having to head outbound via SLC and inbound via DTW on my DL trip to SEA in April - though, I did scratch the 717 off my bucket list of flying on my DTW-DFW leg, but that's another story). I'd love to see DFW-SEA in the long-term to see how well they stack up with AA and AS on that same route (also factoring in AS and WN on SEA-DAL). I can't speak to AS, but based on my personal experiences on a DL A220 and an AA B738 Oasis, I'd be inclined to choose DL over AA on DFW-SEA.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
N212R
Posts: 330
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:16 pm

jumbojet wrote:
DL is not a lux airline, they never claimed to be one nor has anyone on this website. What DL has in their arsenal, what their better at than UA, AA, B6 and just about every other single airline in the world, is being reliable and being on time. You obviously seem to fail to understand that.

About midday, every day, I go and look at the delayed stats and cancelled flight stats, and you always see the usual suspects at the top of the heap. B6 rarely ever has a day with less than 25% of their entire operation being delayed, even on a good weather day. UA and AA, they both seem to have gotten progressively worse.

However, to stay on topic, DL has been flying the A220 for less than a year now. People always forget that it takes time to make a route, or a plane, or a hub, really anything for that matter, to flourish.

Coincidently, DL just completed adding in seat entertainment to its 700th aircraft. UA/AA continue to remove them, and Blue, still considered to be a leisure, small market airline, cant really include them in the mix.


What we don't fail to understand is the DL better, everyone else "progressively worse" spiel that you ad nauseously flog on these forums. Good to read you're sticking to the script.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2957
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:42 pm

N212R wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
DL is not a lux airline, they never claimed to be one nor has anyone on this website. What DL has in their arsenal, what their better at than UA, AA, B6 and just about every other single airline in the world, is being reliable and being on time. You obviously seem to fail to understand that.

About midday, every day, I go and look at the delayed stats and cancelled flight stats, and you always see the usual suspects at the top of the heap. B6 rarely ever has a day with less than 25% of their entire operation being delayed, even on a good weather day. UA and AA, they both seem to have gotten progressively worse.

However, to stay on topic, DL has been flying the A220 for less than a year now. People always forget that it takes time to make a route, or a plane, or a hub, really anything for that matter, to flourish.

Coincidently, DL just completed adding in seat entertainment to its 700th aircraft. UA/AA continue to remove them, and Blue, still considered to be a leisure, small market airline, cant really include them in the mix.


What we don't fail to understand is the DL better, everyone else "progressively worse" spiel that you ad nauseously flog on these forums. Good to read you're sticking to the script.


stats dont lie.
 
TObound
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:21 pm

tphuang wrote:
TObound wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Most other airlines have A321 also and quite a few airlines will have A220 also. Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


Early days. DL's new LGA concourse opens this fall. In another 3-4 years a significant portion of the LGA fleet will be 220s. It'll be a very different experience for New Yorkers in a couple of years.


It just won't happen. This buildup has been going on for a long time. And the JFK redevelopment for the most part don't involve them. As long as fancy foreign airlines fly to NYC and as long as B6 continues to have a good product here, DL will continue to just be recognized as the best of the legacies.


I wasn't talking about JFK. I was referring to LGA.

And I should think LGA will be a decent sized 220 operation when all is said and done.
 
evank516
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:14 am

maximairways wrote:
TObound wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

That way of thinking presumes there's incremental demand at fares DL is willing to chase. DL operates (tomorrow) LGA-MCI with 5x E75/CR9. WN has 2x LGA-MCI. UA is the only carrier EWR-MCI with 3x E70 and 1x 319. Both DL and UA going to want to maintain frequency to promote hub connections. ITA Matrix shows no carrier on MCI-JFK.


Take an extreme assumption. DL swaps those 5 flights for 4 mainline 221 runs. That would add 14% in seats. But DL would actually be at the same (at minimum) or lower operating costs on the route, save a slot at LGA and offer a better product than all its competitors (possibly boosting yield). Overall, that might actually be a worthwhile swap.

The less extreme scenario would be a mixed operation of 2-3 221 flights. And 1-2 RJ runs. Same capacity. Lower frequency.


For the first couple years they flew the route DL was using A320 and A319s on BUF-LGA.


Not sure how LGA-BUF is relevant. It's been said many times, DL is using the A220s to upgauge long, thin large RJ routes in addition to routes to competitors' hubs like LGA-DFW/IAH. LGA-MCI is a long, thin large RJ route. It's been speculated many times (and with much vailidity) on a.net, that DL would want to use the 220 on mid continent routes from both coasts to rotate the planes between hubs on both coasts. MCI is a great place to rotate the plane between LGA and SLC. WN flies LGA-MCI on a 73G, and WN and DL are the top two carriers in MCI, they compete on most of the routes that they fly from there too with the exception of DTW. You're telling me that you don't see the A220 (or hell, the 717) going on LGA-MCI? I'm honestly surprised that the 717 isn't already on it as another way to rotate the 717s between SLC and the East Coast.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:38 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
A great A220 route would be SEA-DFW. I am surprised DL has not launched it yet.


Yeah, it's odd that SEA is the only DL hub with no non-stop to DFW (it wasn't much fun having to head outbound via SLC and inbound via DTW on my DL trip to SEA in April - though, I did scratch the 717 off my bucket list of flying on my DTW-DFW leg, but that's another story). I'd love to see DFW-SEA in the long-term to see how well they stack up with AA and AS on that same route (also factoring in AS and WN on SEA-DAL). I can't speak to AS, but based on my personal experiences on a DL A220 and an AA B738 Oasis, I'd be inclined to choose DL over AA on DFW-SEA.


Competition notwithstanding, I'm pretty sure they will launch it sooner or later. The A220 is the perfect plane for the route.
 
membase
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:31 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:49 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Favre4 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
I would think the A220 would show up on LAX-MEM soon. A 738 is too big for that route.

Have you ever seen the loads on this leg ? Might want to do some research.


Loads don't equal profits. I can't imagine there is much premium traffic. Memphis is a very poor city. The only other airline on that route is Allegiant. AA would start it I'd there was any premium traffic to capture.


Not that poor. Memphis does indeed have high levels of poverty but it still has enough size to support a single mainline flight to the #2 market in the U.S. and a major international gateway. Even a “poor” metro of 1.3 million still has hundreds of thousands of fliers, not to mention a healthy tourism industry. And airlines don’t gauge their aircraft entirely for premium passengers.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:07 am

BNAMealer wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
A great A220 route would be SEA-DFW. I am surprised DL has not launched it yet.


Yeah, it's odd that SEA is the only DL hub with no non-stop to DFW (it wasn't much fun having to head outbound via SLC and inbound via DTW on my DL trip to SEA in April - though, I did scratch the 717 off my bucket list of flying on my DTW-DFW leg, but that's another story). I'd love to see DFW-SEA in the long-term to see how well they stack up with AA and AS on that same route (also factoring in AS and WN on SEA-DAL). I can't speak to AS, but based on my personal experiences on a DL A220 and an AA B738 Oasis, I'd be inclined to choose DL over AA on DFW-SEA.


Competition notwithstanding, I'm pretty sure they will launch it sooner or later. The A220 is the perfect plane for the route.


You're preaching to the choir. I'd love to see DL add DFW-SEA in the long-term, if not sooner.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
Ebmek
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:24 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:35 am

Hopefully Delta sees a chance to send these birds down to TUS and maybe we can get year round service to SEA to give AS a run for their money and MSP for connections out East.
 
FF630
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:44 pm

Once Delta's LAX renovations are complete they may add some long thin routes to the east coast such as CHS or JAX despite a multitude of flights between ATL and those cities.

Charleston is one of the top 5 tourist destinations in the U.S. as is Savannah, they are 80 miles apart.

BA seems to be doing ok with service between LHR and CHS so you never know, but I suspect the CHS avaition authority is subsidizing the route for a couple of years. Obviously any route must be profitable without a subsidy to continue long term.

If Delta chooses not do these routes then one of the ULCC may or SWA once the MAX mess is cleared up. Delta was flying a regional Jet between DTW and JAX once Spirit entered the market Delta switched to an A320, lol
 
JAXDan
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:55 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 am

Anyone know if JAX-JFK is an official addition? A220 is showing up intermittently through mid March.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:28 pm

Can an A220 fly BOS-MEX? I'd be curious to hear if the economics of the plane could make BOS-MEX work? B6 is cutting the route come January.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:15 pm

FF630 wrote:
Lots of opportunities to use this aircraft on long thin routes perhaps 3 to 5 times a week on each of the following from SEA,SFO or LAX depending on market, ORF,JAX,CHS,PVD,BDL

Maybe add a few more seats in First for transcontinental designated aircraft.


DAY talked about having data to support a DAY-LAX nonstop a couple years ago and my mind immediately went to DL and the A220.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
User avatar
DL747400
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
Can't speak for rest of the country, but at least here in NYC, DL isn't regarded as some luxury airlines that's been build up on a.net.


The A220 is only one element of DELTA's recipe for success. What it offers is a measurable improvement of the customer experience at the low end of the mainline fleet. It is one of a hundred or more small, seemingly unconnected things which make up DELTA's "secret sauce" (Yes, that's the same "secret sauce" that AA and UA are desperately trying to copy). Being the first airline to operate the A220 in the USA and deploying them in multiple prime business markets is one of the ways that DELTA aims to excel in North America.

And to your point, DELTA doesn't have to be a luxury airline. They just have to be BETTER than AA and UA. A big piece of being viewed as "better than AA and UA" is running run a smoother, more efficient operation and demonstrating the ability to do so over long periods of time, with fewer unexpected hiccups affecting customers. Another piece is being able to provide a more consistent travel experience over time and delivering on the expectations of customers a high percentage of the time. These are elements which create the customer perception of value. All of these combined are among the many reasons why people are willing to pay a little bit more to fly with DELTA. And that revenue premium relative to the rest of the industry is one reason why DELTA is once again on track to deliver another $5 Billion USD in profits for calendar year 2019.

Image
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8100
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta A220 route additions

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:59 pm

FF630 wrote:
Charleston is one of the top 5 tourist destinations in the U.S. as is Savannah, they are 80 miles apart.


If you can't produce numbers and a source I call BS on that. I suspect visitor numbers (like the Great Smokey Mountains NP) are inflated by short-term visitors arriving by car. What's the relevance of CHS and SAV as tourist destinations from SoCal? Californians aren't going for the beaches. They've got history and food a lot closer to home. Any stats on CHS/SAV visitor counts from California?
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos