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Dieuwer
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Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:07 am

Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL, it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA. I thought the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence? It looks like nothing happened of the sort, at least not compared to “juggernaut” AA.
 
Delta28L
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:20 am

MIA really doesn’t have the coverage that DFW and IAH has into Mexico (due to location). ATL has more coverage into Mexico than MIA. But AA has PHX to add additional coverage. With AM it allows DL passengers to get access into other markets that can’t handle a US carrier. Where as AA doesnt have a partner in Mexico and it has to rely on its own sales.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:23 am

Only AA and UA fly to MID from the USA. AM/DL do not.
Only AA and UA fly to OAX from the USA. AM/DL do not.
Only AA and UA fly to CUU from the USA. AM/DL do not.
Only AA and UA fly to AGU from the USA. AM/DL do not.
Only AA flies to HUX from the USA. AM/DL do not.
Only AA flies to TRC from the USA. AM/DL do not.

(I’m not considering the Mexican LCCs in this comparison).
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:34 am

Dieuwer wrote:
it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA.

In what regard?

It seems like you're thinking in terms of transborder nonstops; but that's not really the model that AM/DL seem to be constructing. More along the lines of DL fills AM's hub/focii, while flying to CUN from various destinations on weekends.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:35 am

Could it be that ATL doesnt have the geographic location or O&D that IAH/DFW have to Mexico?
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Dieuwer
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:37 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA.

In what regard?

It seems like you're thinking in terms of transborder nonstops; but that's not really the model that AM/DL seem to be constructing. More along the lines of DL fills AM's hub/focii, while flying to CUN from various destinations on weekends.


Yes, I am thinking in terms of nonstop Mexican destinations served from US hubs. It really surprises me AM does not fly more from secondary Mexican destinations into e.g. ATL. I mean, why no MID-ATL (I know they had one in the past...I was on it)?
 
MAH4546
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:39 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA.

In what regard?o



It seems like you're thinking in terms of transborder nonstops; but that's not really the model that AM/DL seem to be constructing. More along the lines of DL fills AM's hub/focii, while flying to CUN from various destinations on weekends.


Agreed. Neither DL nor AM are weak to Mexico, but the largest airlines between the States and Mexico is AA.
a.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:41 am

MAH4546 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA.

In what regard?o



It seems like you're thinking in terms of transborder nonstops; but that's not really the model that AM/DL seem to be constructing. More along the lines of DL fills AM's hub/focii, while flying to CUN from various destinations on weekends.


Agreed. Neither DL nor AM are weak to Mexico, but the largest airlines between the States and Mexico is AA.


Fine. Then let’s reverse that into a question: Why is AM/DL not the largest between the States and Mexico?? If DL simply wants to fly to CUN from all over, they didn’t need to waste money on an AM stake.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:45 am

MAH4546 wrote:
but the largest airlines between the States and Mexico is AA.

Indeed.

....which should surprise no one, seeing as AA has (1) hubs in three of the four US border-states with Mexico, (2) a hub in the primary US gateway to LatAm, and (3) no partner to share/do the work for them.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:48 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Fine. Then let’s reverse that into a question: Why is AM/DL not the largest between the States and Mexico?? If DL simply wants to fly to CUN from all over, they didn’t need to waste money on an AM stake.

The (obvious) answer would be:
because they feel that they can make the most revenue at the lowest cost, doing it this way... and that's the only "largest" they're concerned with.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:51 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Fine. Then let’s reverse that into a question: Why is AM/DL not the largest between the States and Mexico?? If DL simply wants to fly to CUN from all over, they didn’t need to waste money on an AM stake.

The (obvious) answer would be:
because they feel that they can [color="orange"]make the most revenue[/color] at the lowest cost, doing it this way... and that's the only "largest" they're concerned with.


Fair enough. And good point about AA hubs along the south: LAX, PHX, DFW, MIA. Suddenly, it makes ATL seem rather lonely. ;)
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:53 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Only AA and UA fly to MID from the USA. AM/DL do not.

It's a decent question. As ATL is only a little further than Miami or Houston you would think the economics would be basically about the same.

Mérida International Airport (MID) to
MIA 682 miles (AA)
IAH 717 miles (UA)
ATL 931 miles theoretical DL

My only guess is there is more origin/destination friends and family passengers at Miami and Houston than Atlanta.

Bahías de Huatulco International Airport (HUX) to
DFW 1179 miles (AA)
MSP 2013 miles (Sun Country)
ATL 1434 miles theoretical DL

HUX is a little harder to explain as there are no local cities in the immediate vicinity. The AA and Sun Country competition is mostly about vacationing gringos..
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:05 am

Dieuwer wrote:
I thought the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence? It looks like nothing happened of the sort, at least not compared to “juggernaut” AA.


Delta has reasonably wide selection to Spanish/Portuguese speaking America from ATL

Mexico City,Bogotá, Buenos Aires–Ezeiza,Quito, Rio de Janeiro–Galeão,Santiago de Chile,São Paulo–Guarulhos
Belize City, Cozumel, Guadalajara, Guatemala City, Managua, Panama City–Tocumen, Puerto Vallarta, Punta Cana, San José (Costa Rica), San José del Cabo, San Juan, San Pedro Sula, San Salvador, Santiago de los Caballeros, Santo Domingo–Las Américas,

I thought they bought AM hoping to build on Asian traffic to Mexico City and connecting through to the capitals of South America. I don't think they were as interested in USA to small airports in Mexico.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:17 am

For AM, having aircraft stay overnight at smaller airports increases their costs. Of course they could fly W patterns, but this increases the operational challenges
What AM can offer, is flights from MEX to every city in the USA with significant traffic to Mexico (apart from Cancun)

Thus, if you want to travel from a small Mexican airport to a sizeable US airport, AA will tell you to change once at a US airport. AM/DL will tell you instead to change at a Mexican airport. Still remains a single change trip, but the country where you change flights is different

DL avoids the costs of its own employees and stations throughout Mexico - it can instead use AM's employees (on Mexican pay, not US pay) who are busy throughout the day on domestic flights (spreading labour costs across more flights) and avoid having to pay the premium that would be charged by a local handling agent (small airlines at airports have less negotiating power) at each airport for the DL flights for customer facing tasks

Maybe DL/AM lose a bit of the revenue but they likely make significant gains on costs
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:25 am

PacoMartin wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
I thought they bought AM hoping to build on Asian traffic to Mexico City and connecting through to the capitals of South America. I don't think they were as interested in USA to small airports in Mexico.


Can you (or someone) explain this strategy?
 
MAH4546
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:29 am

Regarding Merida, for the longest time the only service between the States and Merida was AM to Miami and CO to Houston. The market is tiny. When AA entered, it drove AM out. There is barely any tourist traffic. Miami has long supported Merida service for the past 35+ years, because Miami’s small Mexican community largely comes from Merida. AM and DL have flown ATLMID, and AA also attempted DFWMID, to little success.
a.
 
LH658
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:49 am

Doesn't UA serve the most cities in Mexico, as a American carrier.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:12 am

It's interesting to note that last year in a press release about the first anniversary of the partnership they mention some of the same routes that have since been shut down.

Delta and Aeromexico celebrate a successful first year of joint cooperation agreement ( May 8, 2018 )
New flights or additional frequencies launched include
    Atlanta-Merida
    Atlanta-Guadalajara
    Atlanta-Queretaro
    Los Angeles-Cabo San Lucas
    New York JFK-Cancun
    Detroit-Leon
    Seattle-Mexico City
    Portland-Mexico City
    Los Angeles-Leon
    Guadalajara-Salt Lake City.
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:26 am

LH658 wrote:
Doesn't UA serve the most cities in Mexico, as a American carrier.

Certainly a lot more than the Delta-Aeromexico partnership which only advertises 11 cities in Mexico

CUN Cancun United Airlines
CZM Cozumel United Airlines
MEX Mexico City United Airlines
MID Merida United Airlines
MTY Monterrey United Airlines, Mesa Airlines Skywest Airlines
GDL Guadalajara United Airlines, Mesa Airlines
MZT Mazatlan United Airlines, Mesa Airlines
PVR Puerto Vallarta United Airlines, Mesa Airlines
SJD Cabo San Lucas United Airlines, Mesa Airlines
ZIH Ixtapa United Airlines, Mesa Airlines
BJX Leon/Guanajuato Skywest Airlines, Mesa Airlines
AGU Aguascalientes ExpressJet
CUU Chihuahua ExpressJet
MLM Morelia ExpressJet
OAX Oaxaca ExpressJet
PBC Puebla ExpressJet
SLP San Luis Potosi ExpressJet
TAM Tampico ExpressJet
VER Veracruz ExpressJet
VSA Villahermosa ExpressJet
ACA Acapulco Mesa Airlines
HUX Huatulco Mesa Airlines
QRO Queretaro Mesa Airlines
ZLO Manzanillo Mesa Airlines
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:40 am

AM hubs to MEX... which is what we could expect them to do, just as AA carries passengers from international destinations to its hubs. It will take years to rationalize the networks of DL/AM around USA-2nd tier Mexico non-stops - if they ever chose to do it. Are you saying that AA carries more passengers USA-Mexico than AM/DL?
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:25 pm

LH658 wrote:
Doesn't UA serve the most cities in Mexico, as a American carrier.


Pre-merger, at one time CO flew to at least 30 cities in Mexico from IAH. Albeit most all were single daily ERJ-145's. Quite a few were dropped by UA but some a/c were upgraded.
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:31 pm

California has alot of AM presence. For example, SMF has almost daily, night service to Guadalajara. I have tried to book AA to Guadalajara from SMF and I have to go to DFW. US, before the merger, had a great early morning departure SMF with a change in PHX. DL presence in SMF is limited to LAX, ATL and SLC service. AM has a reasonable presence in LAX.
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:37 pm

This was sort of mentioned above, but I think it depends on the city/hub you look at. UA and AA definitely have stronger service from the US to some (much) smaller markets in Mexico, many on RJ's, but if you look at other airports (say, GDL), Aeromexico and Delta combine for a significantly stronger presence than the other two. So, while I didn't count, I could see that AA and UA could possibly serve more total destinations in Mexico nonstop from the US than DL/AM, but if they are mostly using RJ's on those routes and only flying once (or maybe twice) per day, I would say that "weak" is being used somewhat subjectively here.
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:38 pm

DesertAir wrote:
California has alot of AM presence. For example, SMF has almost daily, night service to Guadalajara. I have tried to book AA to Guadalajara from SMF and I have to go to DFW. US, before the merger, had a great early morning departure SMF with a change in PHX. DL presence in SMF is limited to LAX, ATL and SLC service. AM has a reasonable presence in LAX.


Actually, DL serves MSP and SEA, and, now, DTW from SMF.

FAT also has AM service to GDL, which is now up to twice per night on some busy nights.
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:01 pm

Lets not forget the AA/Interjet codeshare either.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:31 pm

Again: ATL is further geographically from Mexico and has far less O&D to Mexico than DFW and especially IAH. I don’t see why this is a mystery
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SFOThinker
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:50 pm

AA has border state hubs in LAX, PHX, and DFW, with strong ethnic and business ties to Mexico. Part of the reason is that back in the early days of transcontal air travel, the CAB awarded the southern transcontinental route to AA. TWA's route was north of that, and UA further north still. AA flew to Mexico earlier than the other US airlines, and owned a subsidiary airline there. It has paid attention to the market longer than other carriers.
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:28 pm

 
atcanobbio
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:54 pm

this thread made me wonder how small cities like TRC and DGO have service from at least one of the US3 and/or AM to the US yet others like CUL barely have any n/s service to the US
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:33 am

PacoMartin wrote:
It's interesting to note that last year in a press release about the first anniversary of the partnership they mention some of the same routes that have since been shut down.

Delta and Aeromexico celebrate a successful first year of joint cooperation agreement ( May 8, 2018 )
New flights or additional frequencies launched include
    Atlanta-Merida
    Atlanta-Guadalajara
    Atlanta-Queretaro
    Los Angeles-Cabo San Lucas
    New York JFK-Cancun
    Detroit-Leon
    Seattle-Mexico City
    Portland-Mexico City
    Los Angeles-Leon
    Guadalajara-Salt Lake City.


You can add BOS-MEX to the list of failed routes AM/DL fly.
Recently, JetBlue picked it up but we will have to see how long they stay on this route.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:32 am

Row Labels Sum of SEATS
American Airlines Inc. 6048936
United Air Lines Inc. 5415350
Delta Air Lines Inc. 4199813
Concesionaria Vuela Compania De Aviacion SA de CV (Volaris) 3873517
Aeromexico 3777741
Southwest Airlines Co. 3017283
ABC Aerolineas SA de CV dba Interjet 2884898
Alaska Airlines Inc. 2098461
Mesa Airlines Inc. 1303883
Aerolitoral 1156277
JetBlue Airways 1099812
Frontier Airlines Inc. 786296
Spirit Air Lines 749368
Envoy Air 671489
Aeroenlaces Nacionales, S.A. de C.V. d/b/a VivaAerobus 430380

2018 Jan-Dec total seats between US/Mexico. Source US BTS.

DL+AM seems to be the largest if combined.
 
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:44 am

DesertAir wrote:
California has alot of AM presence. For example, SMF has almost daily, night service to Guadalajara. I have tried to book AA to Guadalajara from SMF and I have to go to DFW. US, before the merger, had a great early morning departure SMF with a change in PHX. DL presence in SMF is limited to LAX, ATL and SLC service. AM has a reasonable presence in LAX.


I thought that read that AM is returning to SJC also.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:03 am

Volaris fleet as of April, 2019 was:
8 A319 Aircraft
43 A320 Aircraft
10 A321 Aircraft
13 A320neo Aircraft
5 A321neo Aircraft
79 aircraft

Interjet Airbus fleet (not including Sukhoi models)
45 Airbus A320-200
14 Airbus A321
6 Airbus A321-200
4 Airbus A320neo
8 Airbus A321neo
77 aircraft

Viva Aerobus fleet
10 Airbus A320-200
14 Airbus A320neo
34 aircraft

Aeromexico single-aisle fleet (less MAX)
11 Boeing 737-700
36 Boeing 737-800
47 aircraft

Aeromexico does not use their Dreamliners to fly to USA with the exception of a daily trip from MEX-JFK.

Some of these missing opportunities may simply be a result of the MAX holdup.
 
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ghost77
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:31 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
Aeromexico single-aisle fleet (less MAX)
11 Boeing 737-700
36 Boeing 737-800
47 aircraft

Aeromexico does not use their Dreamliners to fly to USA with the exception of a daily trip from MEX-JFK.

Some of these missing opportunities may simply be a result of the MAX holdup.

You must add the Aeromexico Connect fleet, with plenty of trans-bordering flights:

47 Embraer 190
10 Embraer 170
57 aircraft

So, the combined narrow-body fleet of Grupo Aeroméxico is 104.
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jplatts
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:01 pm

AM does serve some non-DL hub destinations in the US nonstop from MEX, including AUS, ORD, DFW, IAH, LAS, MIA, MCO, SAT, and SFO.

There are also some markets on the U.S.-Mexico border that AM serves through airports on the Mexican side of the border, including Brownsville through MAM, Calexico through MXL, El Paso through CJS, McAllen through REX, Laredo through NLD, and San Diego through TIJ.

In some of the Texas markets such as BRO/HRL/MAM, LRD/NLD, MFE/REX, and SAT, the AM nonstops to MEX are a much better option than connecting through DFW or IAH.
 
alasizon
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:17 pm

DesertAir wrote:
I have tried to book AA to Guadalajara from SMF and I have to go to DFW. US, before the merger, had a great early morning departure SMF with a change in PHX.

The early AM departure SMF-PHX still connects to the PHX-GDL 10AM departure.

jplatts wrote:
There are also some markets on the U.S.-Mexico border that AM serves through airports on the Mexican side of the border, including Brownsville through MAM, Calexico through MXL, El Paso through CJS, McAllen through REX, Laredo through NLD, and San Diego through TIJ.

In some of the Texas markets such as BRO/HRL/MAM, LRD/NLD, MFE/REX, and SAT, the AM nonstops to MEX are a much better option than connecting through DFW or IAH.

Very little US Point of Sale is using the cross-border airports (perhaps with the exception of TIJ) unless they are going to visit family still living in Mexico.

atcanobbio wrote:
this thread made me wonder how small cities like TRC and DGO have service from at least one of the US3 and/or AM to the US yet others like CUL barely have any n/s service to the US

For example, Y4 runs CUL-PHX and its almost entirely Mexico point of sale and Y4 can only support it 2-3x per week. Not a lot of Americans are flocking to Sinaloa now which is probably part of what hurts CUL.

The winners when it comes to continued expanded service to Mexico from the US are likely to be places like CUU, DGO, MTY and GDL.
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phxsanslcpdx
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:34 pm

atcanobbio wrote:
this thread made me wonder how small cities like TRC and DGO have service from at least one of the US3 and/or AM to the US yet others like CUL barely have any n/s service to the US


Generally tourism supports most of the flights from the US to smaller Mexican airports. And segment distance matters, too: CUL, VSA, or QRO have relatively little tourist/business connections, and they require too much plane time. Whereas TRC and DGO are easy to serve with quick hops from Texas.

The other group of big Mexican airports without direct US service is border cities: CJS, TIJ, and MXL. Traffic direct from the US to these cities is significantly lower than traffic to neighboring US cities, so ELP and SAN (and maybe a tiny bit IPL) serve what US-originating traffic exists.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:38 pm

phxsanslcpdx wrote:
atcanobbio wrote:
this thread made me wonder how small cities like TRC and DGO have service from at least one of the US3 and/or AM to the US yet others like CUL barely have any n/s service to the US


Generally tourism supports most of the flights from the US to smaller Mexican airports. And segment distance matters, too: CUL, VSA, or QRO have relatively little tourist/business connections, and they require too much plane time.


I thought VSA was big in the oil industry? Or is this over?
 
alasizon
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:44 pm

phxsanslcpdx wrote:
Generally tourism supports most of the flights from the US to smaller Mexican airports. And segment distance matters, too: CUL, VSA, or QRO have relatively little tourist/business connections, and they require too much plane time. Whereas TRC and DGO are easy to serve with quick hops from Texas.


Given QRO sees 3x E175s daily from DFW, I'd say its not nearly as non-connected as you believe. Loads to/from QRO are full almost every day from what I've seen.
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LAXdude1023
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:51 pm

alasizon wrote:
phxsanslcpdx wrote:
Generally tourism supports most of the flights from the US to smaller Mexican airports. And segment distance matters, too: CUL, VSA, or QRO have relatively little tourist/business connections, and they require too much plane time. Whereas TRC and DGO are easy to serve with quick hops from Texas.


Given QRO sees 3x E175s daily from DFW, I'd say its not nearly as non-connected as you believe. Loads to/from QRO are full almost every day from what I've seen.


QRO has both tourist and business connections. Its very close to San Miguel de Allende. It has 3 flights a day from DFW, 4 a day from IAH, a daily to ATL, and a daily to DTW all on larger ERJs.
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klakzky123
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:55 pm

Is DL getting strong yields on the beach flights from MSP? Or are those at risk now that they launched MSP-MEX?
 
EddieDude
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Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:33 pm

klakzky123 wrote:
Is DL getting strong yields on the beach flights from MSP? Or are those at risk now that they launched MSP-MEX?

I think there is little overlap/cannibalization. MSP-MEX-MSP will have a high degree of business passengers (3M Corporation, Best Buy, Ecolab), plus a large portion of O&D traffic as well. Although small, there will also be a number of MEX-originating passengers boud to destinations in the U.S. and Canada (and HND!) for which MSP is the most convenient connection.

MEX is not a very convenient place for connections, so I would expect that only a very few passengers on the DL MEX flight would actually be connecting on an AM flight to the beach. This is my opinion of course.
Upcoming flights:
May: AM MEX-CUN 73H (Y), AM CUN-MEX 73W (Y).
August: KL MEX-AMS 74M (J), KQ AMS-NBO 788 (J).
 
winginit
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:55 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL, it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA. I thought the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence? It looks like nothing happened of the sort, at least not compared to “juggernaut” AA.


Yes look... how incredibly weak the combined AM and DL are in the transborder space..

Image

yawn.
 
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Dieuwer
Topic Author
Posts: 1350
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:10 pm

winginit wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL, it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA. I thought the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence? It looks like nothing happened of the sort, at least not compared to “juggernaut” AA.


Yes look... how incredibly weak the combined AM and DL are in the transborder space..

Image

yawn.


Yawn indeed. READ FIRST before commenting.

I wrote:

Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL,...
 
winginit
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:36 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
winginit wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL, it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA. I thought the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence? It looks like nothing happened of the sort, at least not compared to “juggernaut” AA.


Yes look... how incredibly weak the combined AM and DL are in the transborder space..

Image

yawn.


Yawn indeed. READ FIRST before commenting.

I wrote:

Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL,...


Interesting tactic ignoring what you wrote after that in addition to your question. Let's recap that shall we?

Dieuwer wrote:
Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL, it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA. I thought the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence? It looks like nothing happened of the sort, at least not compared to “juggernaut” AA.


The cut of data that I provided shows that yes, the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence - that was accomplished. The end.
 
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Dieuwer
Topic Author
Posts: 1350
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:37 pm

winginit wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
winginit wrote:

Yes look... how incredibly weak the combined AM and DL are in the transborder space..

Image

yawn.


Yawn indeed. READ FIRST before commenting.

I wrote:

Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL,...


Interesting tactic ignoring what you wrote after that in addition to your question. Let's recap that shall we?

Dieuwer wrote:
Simply looking at the destinations served from hubs like DFW, MIA vs. ATL, it seems AM/DL is very weak compared to AA. I thought the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence? It looks like nothing happened of the sort, at least not compared to “juggernaut” AA.


The cut of data that I provided shows that yes, the whole idea of DL buying a stake in AM was to beef up Mexico presence - that was accomplished. The end.


Uhm. No.
"Beef up Mexico presence" as in "Fly to more Mexican destinations"..

Anyway. The conclusion is clear.
AA flies to more unique Mexican destinations than AM/DL do. But the combined AM/DL has most of the seats into Mexico.
Personally, I don't care how many seats an airline flies wherever. I care where I can go with an airline. Case in point, I just bought a ticket on AA to Mexico :)
 
EBiafore99
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:44 pm

I don't necessarily agree that more flights/destinations = stronger and less flights/destinations = weaker. It's just a different approach. DL prefers to use partners and their hubs to funnel traffic, while serving what is most likely the higher yielding destinations on its own metal or non-stop on AM. I believe DTW is a good example. The cities being served non-stop from DTW are all cities with automotive factories.

DL is really doing the same thing with KE if you look at it. DL is focusing on connecting traffic through ICN/KE. Notice how many destinations DL has dropped is Asia (BKK, GUM, ROR, SPN, TPE) and my guess is there will be a few more casualties. In the end, DL will be serving only those cities with higher yields and funneling other passengers through ICN.
 
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Dieuwer
Topic Author
Posts: 1350
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:45 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
I don't necessarily agree that more flights/destinations = stronger and less flights/destinations = weaker. It's just a different approach. DL prefers to use partners and their hubs to funnel traffic, while serving what is most likely the higher yielding destinations on its own metal or non-stop on AM. I believe DTW is a good example. The cities being served non-stop from DTW are all cities with automotive factories.

DL is really doing the same thing with KE if you look at it. DL is focusing on connecting traffic through ICN/KE. Notice how many destinations DL has dropped is Asia (BKK, GUM, ROR, SPN, TPE) and my guess is there will be a few more casualties. In the end, DL will be serving only those cities with higher yields and funneling other passengers through ICN.


You';re welcome to start your own thread: "AM/DL is strongest in Mexico!". :D
 
winginit
Posts: 2546
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Why is AM/DL weak in Mexico vs AA

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:50 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Uhm. No.
"Beef up Mexico presence" as in "Fly to more Mexican destinations"..


That sounds like it's your definition. Was it DL's when they announced their intentions? I doubt you know.

Dieuwer wrote:
Anyway. The conclusion is clear.
AA flies to more unique Mexican destinations than AM/DL do. But the combined AM/DL has most of the seats into Mexico.
Personally, I don't care how many seats an airline flies wherever. I care where I can go with an airline. Case in point, I just bought a ticket on AA to Mexico :)


Certainly can't argue with what you personally care about, but I think you'll find a high yielding business traveler is far more interested in capacity or flight times between say LAX and MEX than he or she is whether HUX or HMO are accessible nonstop from the US. AM sits atop a powerhouse hub in MEX, and it negates the need for the combined AM/DL to serve the breadth of nonstops from the US that AA does.

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