solracfunk14
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:34 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Would TAP be able to launch new destinations in Northern Brazil with the A321LR?

I recall Joao Pessoa had TACV flights for a while (it seems they are gone). But it seems it is too close to Recife and Natal.

São Luís? Sergipe?


Yes! Not confirmed tought. Draw a line in Brasilia, the capital, any city above this could be and would be served by the A321LR.

Below this it's more premium market and with heavier demand for cargo also, so no good for A321LR.
 
CALMSP
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:40 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
Long haul with an narrowbody is a strong no from me


The United 757s are quite comfortable crossing the Atlantic.


agreed.......although I tend to stick to the 757's heading east and then look for the wide body on the westbound portion.
 
dcajet
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:41 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
How are they going to fit meals for long haul on a narrow body? They can barely provision enough snacks and drinks on a transcon turn currently and regularly run out, and thats without space for meals and ovens. This is why super long haul on a narrow won't work.


The same way it was done on 707s and DC-8s in the 60s. And on 757s today, flying to Europe. You can't take today's lost cost airline standards as the norm. Also, nobody is speaking of super long haul flights on an A321 AFAIK - just 8-10 hour segments.
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SCQ83
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:05 pm

solracfunk14 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Would TAP be able to launch new destinations in Northern Brazil with the A321LR?

I recall Joao Pessoa had TACV flights for a while (it seems they are gone). But it seems it is too close to Recife and Natal.

São Luís? Sergipe?


Yes! Not confirmed tought. Draw a line in Brasilia, the capital, any city above this could be and would be served by the A321LR.

Below this it's more premium market and with heavier demand for cargo also, so no good for A321LR.


But there are not so many cities that could be served commercially. Also Maceió has been mentioned; maybe that one. I wonder if some of those cities/states will grant subsidies to TP to get European tourists.

I feel the A321LR is better suited for OPO to open new markets in NA (e.g. OPO-BOS).
 
aviationlover7
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:25 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Would TAP be able to launch new destinations in Northern Brazil with the A321LR?

I recall Joao Pessoa had TACV flights for a while (it seems they are gone). But it seems it is too close to Recife and Natal.

São Luís? Sergipe?


Yes! Not confirmed tought. Draw a line in Brasilia, the capital, any city above this could be and would be served by the A321LR.

Below this it's more premium market and with heavier demand for cargo also, so no good for A321LR.


But there are not so many cities that could be served commercially. Also Maceió has been mentioned; maybe that one. I wonder if some of those cities/states will grant subsidies to TP to get European tourists.

I feel the A321LR is better suited for OPO to open new markets in NA (e.g. OPO-BOS).


Agreed. Also, OPO to YYZ and YUL.
 
747megatop
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:47 pm

330lover wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
Long haul with an narrowbody is a strong no from me


I'm sure airlines won't care about you flying narrowbody or not ;)

If the seat is the same, same width, same pitch, same service as in a widebody, why not?
There are narrowbodies with more generous seating than high density widebodies!
It's just in your (and lots of others) mind that widebodies are standard more comfy than narrows.

And as a side note: most people on long flights sleep (or try to), so wide or narrow, sleep will be the same ;)

You are absolutely right. If you really look at it...a widebody for all purposes could be considered as 2 narrowbodies stuck to each other side by side -> WINDOW+SEATS+AISLE+**seats**+aisle+seats+window

capital case -> NB 1
**seats** -> a couple of seats from NB1; the rest from NB2
lower case -> NB2

Like you said, it is all in the mind.
 
airbazar
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:50 pm

incitatus wrote:
airbazar wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
Regarding flight times, how much longer will an A321LR take compared with an A330/787 on a 3000nm-4000nm route?

Will it be significant enough to become a problem? (Especially if 2 airlines operate the same route - one with an A321LR and the other with an A330/787)


There's no need to guess since TP flies both OPO-EWR and LIS-EWR with an A321 and A330 respectively.
Yesterday's OPO-EWR on the A321LR was actually faster than LIS-EWR on the A330.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP ... /LPPR/KEWR
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP ... /LPPT/KEWR
We often make too big a deal out of the aircraft's max cruise speed on this forum without taking into consideration other factors like air traffic congestion and a more economical route and cruise speed selection.


Interesting comparison but most of the difference in this single case is attributed to taxi times, both before and after the flight. I have seen several examples of A330s crossing the Atlantic on busy routes, with overlapping 777 or 787 aircraft on the same route. In some cases, the faster aircraft take-off later and land earlier - that is - the A330 gets passed mid-flight. Your example shows other factors matters, but cruise speed is pretty important.

It doesn't change the fact that the gate-to-gate time difference is meaningless. We also have 752's going against widebodies every day on the same route. At the end of the day congestion is more of a factor than max crusing speed.

CobaltScar wrote:
How are they going to fit meals for long haul on a narrow body? They can barely provision enough snacks and drinks on a transcon turn currently and regularly run out, and thats without space for meals and ovens. This is why super long haul on a narrow won't work.

It's an 8-hour flight. Where do you get the "super long haul" from?
They'll fit the meals the same way it's been done for decades on narrowbodies. Just because some airlines chose not to provide catering on tcon routes it doesn't meant it can't be done.
 
AirFrance77W
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:50 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I feel the A321LR is better suited for OPO to open new markets in NA (e.g. OPO-BOS).


OPO-BOS or OPO-YYZ has to be the radar.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:49 pm

PW100 wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
Having an extra aisle doesn't make any difference unless you're in the middle seat in the middle row, which is probably not where you'd want to be anyway. If they put in the same type of seats and in-flight entertainment, then as far as most passengers are concerned there's no difference. I've flown on Turkish 737 and 777 and they're basically the same in terms of service and comfort. To me this is great news - it's going to open up a lot of new routes and for TAP there is a lot of potential in NE Brazil.

I wonder if RAM or Iberia could also take advantage of these opportunities, as they could connect many smaller cities in South America to Europe having the feed at the European end already.


I’d much rather be in the window seat in Y on a TP A332 than A321neo, there’s an extra set of knees to get past on the nb.


Correct. Though generally only Airbus WB would offer you that comfort. Most Boeing WB don't . . .


Well TP’s A321LR is replacing the A332 on these routes. That is specifically what we’re talking about here. TP do not have any Boeing widebodies.
come visit the south pacific
 
ka
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:53 pm

A quick question:
I know it's off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me how many A330neo TAP will receive?
I have seen different numbers (17, 19, 21)...

Thank you in advance!
Brgds,
Ka.
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efpmeneses
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:49 pm

From Lisbon to South America JPA, AJU, MCZ, SLZ, VIX, MAO

MAO didn't work on widebody , but maybe it is good on NB

They could even use it for CCS

And OPO to REC, SSA, FOR, NAT maybe...

And in North America from LIS to YUL, PHL, CLT, DFW, DTW, ATL, MCO, FLL or to replace A330 on BOS, NYC, ORD, YYZ

From OPO to YYZ, YUL, BOS, MIA

And then central America or Caribbean to SJU, PUJ, SDQ, HAV....

So, lots is possibilities.....

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PVD757
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:27 am

I’d love to see LIS-PVD.
 
bsbisland
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:40 am

TAP serves 10 cities in Brazil. I do not see potencial for much more destinations, except CWB, MAO and maybe MCZ. Not many cities in Brazil can sustain a link to Europe. Belem (BEL) that used to be 3 weekly A332 and more recently has been downgranded to twice weekly, and is the destination with fewer demand for TAP in Brazil, so perfect for the A321LR. Natal (NAT) should be the next to receive the A321LR in the country, considering the smaller market and shorter distance to LIS.
 
solracfunk14
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:49 am

SCQ83 wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Would TAP be able to launch new destinations in Northern Brazil with the A321LR?

I recall Joao Pessoa had TACV flights for a while (it seems they are gone). But it seems it is too close to Recife and Natal.

São Luís? Sergipe?


Yes! Not confirmed tought. Draw a line in Brasilia, the capital, any city above this could be and would be served by the A321LR.

Below this it's more premium market and with heavier demand for cargo also, so no good for A321LR.


But there are not so many cities that could be served commercially. Also Maceió has been mentioned; maybe that one. I wonder if some of those cities/states will grant subsidies to TP to get European tourists.

I feel the A321LR is better suited for OPO to open new markets in NA (e.g. OPO-BOS).


Maceio is above Brasilia, more north and close to the Equator line
 
solracfunk14
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:52 am

ka wrote:
A quick question:
I know it's off-topic, but could anyone enlighten me how many A330neo TAP will receive?
I have seen different numbers (17, 19, 21)...

Thank you in advance!
Brgds,
Ka.


19 or 20 by Airbus table
 
bsbisland
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:26 am

Thibault973 wrote:
LXwing wrote:
Yes, definitely.
I've heard rumors that João Pessoa (JPA) and Maceió (MCZ) are in the pipeline.
And I would guess that São Luís (SLZ) would be likely too.


If they couldn’t make Manaus and Campinas work, I really can’t see how they could make Joao Pessoa, which is only 120km from Recife and can barely sustain any domestic flights, work.


JPA is indeed a small market, and close to REC, but to say an airport with 1,4 million domestic passengers can barely sustain any domestic flights work is a ridiculous exageration (26th busiest airport in a country with circa 110 airports with regular commercial flights)...

BTW Campinas now gets twice daily flights to LIS on Azul, plus a 3 weekly to OPO.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:35 am

CobaltScar wrote:
How are they going to fit meals for long haul on a narrow body? They can barely provision enough snacks and drinks on a transcon turn currently and regularly run out, and thats without space for meals and ovens. This is why super long haul on a narrow won't work.


I think most airlines flying this above 6 hours are making room for full catering and will probably not be the densest XLRs around.
@DadCelo
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:41 am

windian425 wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-how-the-a321xlr-gained-initial-order-momen-459501/

Great article on the 321XLR


I assume the "and capacity for 270 passengers" part is a typo?
@DadCelo
 
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ADent
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:17 am

Depends on how they are configured, but yes a typical narrow body with minimum lavs is not a great place for an 8 hour flight.
I have flown ORD-HNL non-stop on a narrow body and it was great - first class in a DC8-71.
 
Antarius
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:40 am

PW100 wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
Having an extra aisle doesn't make any difference unless you're in the middle seat in the middle row, which is probably not where you'd want to be anyway. If they put in the same type of seats and in-flight entertainment, then as far as most passengers are concerned there's no difference. I've flown on Turkish 737 and 777 and they're basically the same in terms of service and comfort. To me this is great news - it's going to open up a lot of new routes and for TAP there is a lot of potential in NE Brazil.

I wonder if RAM or Iberia could also take advantage of these opportunities, as they could connect many smaller cities in South America to Europe having the feed at the European end already.


I’d much rather be in the window seat in Y on a TP A332 than A321neo, there’s an extra set of knees to get past on the nb.


Correct. Though generally only Airbus WB would offer you that comfort. Most Boeing WB don't . . .


:roll:

You have the a330 and the 767 that offer that. The a350 and a380 do not, similar to the 747,777 and 787.

Nice attempt to needlessly throw shade in a thread that has nothing to do with the other manufacturer.
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PW100
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:19 am

Motorhussy wrote:
PW100 wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:

I’d much rather be in the window seat in Y on a TP A332 than A321neo, there’s an extra set of knees to get past on the nb.


Correct. Though generally only Airbus WB would offer you that comfort. Most Boeing WB don't . . .


Well TP’s A321LR is replacing the A332 on these routes. That is specifically what we’re talking about here.


Not really. The post you replied to referenced Turkish, RAM, Iberia as well. But it seems were getting a bit pedantic here.
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vhtje
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:44 am

CobaltScar wrote:
How are they going to fit meals for long haul on a narrow body? They can barely provision enough snacks and drinks on a transcon turn currently and regularly run out, and thats without space for meals and ovens. This is why super long haul on a narrow won't work.


It's a good question. Presumably aircraft configured for long-haul will have different galley arrangements to aircraft configured for short-haul.

BA have managed it on their BabyBus A318. Meals were delicious and plentiful. As was the champagne.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
AleksW
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:15 am

Folks, how many seats are in the long haul configured A321?
 
airbazar
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:53 am

AleksW wrote:
Folks, how many seats are in the long haul configured A321?

The Internet says 171: 16J,48Y+, 107Y
 
Accord
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:46 pm

airbazar wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:


The one issue that I see about using this aircraft on Brazilian routes is space for all the luggage. Brazil has a law requiring all airlines to allow 2 free checked bags, but I'm sure TAP has done their math.


Not the case anymore! Air France even has the "lite" fee option now with no checked bags at all and the standard fee, since March/April this year is one checked baggage per person. Lufthansa is one checked baggage since the beginning of the 2019.
 
AleksW
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:07 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
Regarding flight times, how much longer will an A321LR take compared with an A330/787 on a 3000nm-4000nm route?

Will it be significant enough to become a problem? (Especially if 2 airlines operate the same route - one with an A321LR and the other with an A330/787)


Afaik, the A320 family cruises at something like 0.78 (maybe closer to 0.8 Mach), basically the same speed as the 737 NG / MAX.
The A330 and 787 are cursing at 0.82 and 0.84 / 0.85 respectively. In theory, the A330 and especially the A350 / B787 could also climb higher (less dense air) and cover even more ground miles in given time, with already high Mach numbers, compared to the A320
So I would say the A321 will take 12-15% more time to cover the same distance.
Last edited by AleksW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AleksW
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:10 pm

airbazar wrote:
AleksW wrote:
Folks, how many seats are in the long haul configured A321?

The Internet says 171: 16J,48Y+, 107Y

Thanks
 
airbazar
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:10 pm

AleksW wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
Regarding flight times, how much longer will an A321LR take compared with an A330/787 on a 3000nm-4000nm route?

Will it be significant enough to become a problem? (Especially if 2 airlines operate the same route - one with an A321LR and the other with an A330/787)


Afaik, the A320 family cruises at something like 0.78 (maybe closer to 0.8 Mach), basically the same speed as the 737 NG / MAX.
The A330 and 787 are cursing at 0.82 and 0.84 / 0.85 respectively. In theory, the A330 and especially the A350 / B787 could also climb higher (less dense air) and cover even more ground miles in given time, with already high Mach numbers, compared to the A320
So I would say the A321 will take 12-15% more time to cover the same distance.


See reply #39. Cruise speed is not the only relevant factor.
In a perfect work, with no other factors the A330 would finish the trip about 30 minutes faster but in reality that is not happening on most days.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:37 pm

vhtje wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
How are they going to fit meals for long haul on a narrow body? They can barely provision enough snacks and drinks on a transcon turn currently and regularly run out, and thats without space for meals and ovens. This is why super long haul on a narrow won't work.


It's a good question. Presumably aircraft configured for long-haul will have different galley arrangements to aircraft configured for short-haul.

BA have managed it on their BabyBus A318. Meals were delicious and plentiful. As was the champagne.


If they can fit the passengers they can easily fit the food. They don't need to serve a banquet. Most airlines only give a small sandwich for breakfast anyway.
 
Thibault973
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:39 pm

bsbisland wrote:
[

JPA is indeed a small market, and close to REC, but to say an airport with 1,4 million domestic passengers can barely sustain any domestic flights work is a ridiculous exageration (26th busiest airport in a country with circa 110 airports with regular commercial flights)...

BTW Campinas now gets twice daily flights to LIS on Azul, plus a 3 weekly to OPO.


JPA gets fligts to Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Brasilia, Salvador and Recife (due to the latter being a hub for Azul) + 1 weelky to Buenos Aires on G3. That's really not much for a city this size. Neighbor NAT is double its size when both cities have around 850 000 hab, including direct fligts to Amsterdam, Lisbon and Milan. This is simply due to the fact that while JPA basically serves the city of Joao Pessoa, NAT is the gateway to Praia da Pipa, one of Brasil most famous beach resorts and arguably the most popular one in the Northeast (with Jericoacoara in nearby Céara).

If I remember correctly TP dropped VCP way before AD started flying the route.
 
solracfunk14
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:40 am

Accord wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:


The one issue that I see about using this aircraft on Brazilian routes is space for all the luggage. Brazil has a law requiring all airlines to allow 2 free checked bags, but I'm sure TAP has done their math.


Not the case anymore! Air France even has the "lite" fee option now with no checked bags at all and the standard fee, since March/April this year is one checked baggage per person. Lufthansa is one checked baggage since the beginning of the 2019.


That got down almost 2 years ago. Now the law says it's just required one carry-on for at least 10kg for DOMESTIC flights, but that can be reduced if they airline want so due operational reasons (smaller airplane).

SKY charges everything to Brazil, from carry-on to checked baggages.

TAP indeed was the first one to charge for checked bags in international flights, now LATAM does in all routes as well GOL. Azul keeps 2x 23kg free bags.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:21 am

lhrnue wrote:
Long haul with an narrowbody is a strong no from me


Great circle distance in statute miles
OPO EWR 3,340 mi
LIS BEL 3,726 mi
EWR BEL 3,317 mi

If there ever is a nonstop from EWR to BEL Belém [Belém Intl - Val-de-Cães (Júlio Cezar Ribeiro)] in Brazil it will be on a single aisle jet. People who say that sort of thing, I wonder how much they would take it to the limit?

For instance if you want to go to Southern Ireland from NYC, would you take a dual aisle jet to Dublin and drive for a few hours, or would you take a single aisle jet to Cork?c
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:16 am

I remember that on NB 757s, there was a constant problem with toilet smell because of the higher use of each toilet and the closer proximity of the seats to the lavs. Personally, I avoid the 767 and the 757 in coach on long-haul flights and go for a 777/787 or at least an A330. There’s something about being in a wide body that seems more spacious and interesting compared to the cramped confines of a NB.
 
mhockey31091
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:17 am

What about crew rest areas on these long flights?
 
dfpinto
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:40 am

Thibault973 wrote:

If I remember correctly TP dropped VCP way before AD started flying the route.


If I remember correctly, both were serving this route at some point. This route was handed over to Azul once TAP sent back the two A332 that they borrowed from them for TP's US operations.
 
LXwing
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:55 am

dfpinto wrote:
Thibault973 wrote:

If I remember correctly TP dropped VCP way before AD started flying the route.


If I remember correctly, both were serving this route at some point. This route was handed over to Azul once TAP sent back the two A332 that they borrowed from them for TP's US operations.


You are both wrong. TAP dropped VCP in the end of May 2016 while Azul started VCP-LIS in June of the same year. It was obviously a coordinated move from both, as they codeshare in the route from the beginning. There was no point in having both going head to head, and since VCP is an Azul hub and TAP is focussed on GRU anyway, it was an obvious choice.
There's nothing unsustainable with the VIR-LIS route as was suggested upthread, since it was twice weekly then and it is twice daily now...
 
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zkojq
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:48 am

Bricktop wrote:
So therefore certainly superior to the 10 abreast A350 as that camel's nose is now squarely under the tent.


Would you care to remind us all of how many individual A350 airframes are in the ten abreast configuration?
First to fly the 787-9
 
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zkojq
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:53 am

usdcaguy wrote:
There’s something about being in a wide body that seems more spacious and interesting compared to the cramped confines of a NB.

Probably the higher ceiling thanks to the greater fuselage diameter. I doubt most pax notice this though.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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AECM
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:59 am

zkojq wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
So therefore certainly superior to the 10 abreast A350 as that camel's nose is now squarely under the tent.


Would you care to remind us all of how many individual A350 airframes are in the ten abreast configuration?


According to SeatGuru Air Caraibes and French Bee both have A350 with 10 abreast
 
Bricktop
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:06 pm

zkojq wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
So therefore certainly superior to the 10 abreast A350 as that camel's nose is now squarely under the tent.


Would you care to remind us all of how many individual A350 airframes are in the ten abreast configuration?

Top Airbus execs themselves are humping 10 abreast right now. We are just at the start of that “evolution”. Only the naive would think otherwise. And it will be such fun to watch all the folk here who deride 10 abreast on the wider-than-the-extra-wide-body 777 and even wider 777X (and 9AB on the 787) try to perform the logical gymnastics it will require in defense of their binky. Fish flopping around on decks springs to mind if you want a visual. :yes:
 
Bricktop
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:13 pm

AECM wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
So therefore certainly superior to the 10 abreast A350 as that camel's nose is now squarely under the tent.


Would you care to remind us all of how many individual A350 airframes are in the ten abreast configuration?


According to SeatGuru Air Caraibes and French Bee both have A350 with 10 abreast

Both are visually stunning from the outside, maybe my favorite plane/livery combo right now. I’d love to get to ORY to see them in person. But fly long haul on them? :shakehead:
 
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zkojq
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:22 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Top Airbus execs themselves are humping 10 abreast right now. We are just at the start of that “evolution”. Only the naive would think otherwise
Nope. Airbus has been doing that since 2015. There are five A350 aircraft with ten abreast seating. Five. All owned by one airline group (Groupe Dubreuil). Not a single legacy/full service carrier has A350s with ten abreast seating. evelop, who has 400+ seats on their A350 in a single class configuration doesn't even do ten abreast.

Bricktop wrote:
And it will be such fun to watch all the folk here who deride 10 abreast on the wider-than-the-extra-wide-body 777 and even wider 777X (and 9AB on the 787) try to perform the logical gymnastics it will require in defense of their binky. Fish flopping around on decks springs to mind if you want a visual. :yes:


Please stop pretending that ten abreast on the A350 is somehow mainstream. It quite clearly isn't. Noone here pretends that eight abreast on a 767 is the normal configuration.

A couple of days ago I had a very pleasant long haul flight on a 9 abreast 777. What a shame that they're such a rarity these days.
First to fly the 787-9
 
Bricktop
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:57 pm

zkojq wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Top Airbus execs themselves are humping 10 abreast right now. We are just at the start of that “evolution”. Only the naive would think otherwise
Nope. Airbus has been doing that since 2015. There are five A350 aircraft with ten abreast seating. Five. All owned by one airline group (Groupe Dubreuil). Not a single legacy/full service carrier has A350s with ten abreast seating. evelop, who has 400+ seats on their A350 in a single class configuration doesn't even do ten abreast.

Bricktop wrote:
And it will be such fun to watch all the folk here who deride 10 abreast on the wider-than-the-extra-wide-body 777 and even wider 777X (and 9AB on the 787) try to perform the logical gymnastics it will require in defense of their binky. Fish flopping around on decks springs to mind if you want a visual. :yes:


Please stop pretending that ten abreast on the A350 is somehow mainstream. It quite clearly isn't. Noone here pretends that eight abreast on a 767 is the normal configuration.

A couple of days ago I had a very pleasant long haul flight on a 9 abreast 777. What a shame that they're such a rarity these days.

I am not saying it is mainstream. I clearly stated for those who are not reading comprehension challenged that it is the BEGINNING of the trend. Airlines didn't put 10 AB in the 777 starting day one did they? No. They found out that they could though, so they did.

https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2019/07/08/airbus-changes-tack-on-seat-comfort-posits-sub-economy-on-a350/

WARNING!: Major arithmetic- and physics-ignoring spin and corporate marketing BS to follow. Reader and passenger discretion is advised.

Chief commercial officer Christian Scherer asserted just prior to the Paris Air Show that Airbus can offer 17”-wide seats in a ten-abreast A350. Not only is this a full 0.6” more than the 16.4” that Airbus sold years ago, but in the absence of some very creative rounding up of numbers it seems very unlikely to be achievable without deal-breaking compromises on comfort.


Doubling down on this Airbus messaging was senior vice president for marketing François Caudron, who sat down for an extensive interview with RGN at Le Bourget.

On the A350, Caudron says Scherer “is right when he says that ten-abreast is comfortable. It’s as comfortable as what you currently fly in the 300ER, that’s what it is, from a seat perspective. Ten-abreast already flies on 350. Air Caraïbes, French Bee, these guys fly it.”


It's coming. The OEM is pushing it. Not me, but Airbus CCO Scherer, and Airbus SVP Marketing Caudron. Major corporate bigshots. Please stop pretending that ten abreast on the A350 is somehow more comfortable than on the wider 777 and even wider 777X. They will. They are paid to do that. Now if I was Boeing I would be concerned about the economics of this flying clown car: As an avgeek I just want to see as many new planes as possible. As a long haul passenger though, uh uh.
 
Bricktop
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:20 pm

Holy crap. I am sorry for my contributions to thread drift. This one is about flying LH on an A321, with which I have no problem if there’s adequate seat pitch.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:23 pm

7+ hours in a single aisle with 3 bathrooms??
No thanks.
I'd rather make a connection somewhere.
 
richierich
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:46 pm

The debate over whether long-haul should be twin-aisle versus single-aisle will continue on this site for as long as there are both types of planes.

Remember Tom Bodett and his Motel 6 commercials? To paraphrase what he said, all hotel rooms look the same when you turn the lights off and close your eyes. Obviously a lot more goes into choosing a hotel than that but for certain types of trips, a Motel 6 will work as well as a room twice the size or costing twice as much. Relating that to air travel, the comfort of the seat and the level of service and amenities are what determines a great flight versus a difficult one - the size of the aircraft (two aisles versus one, etc.) is irrelevant to me. And anyway, ever been stuck in the middle seat of the middle section on a widebody? It's not particularly pleasant.
I do like flying different plane types but most folks buying tickets don't care as long as they get from A to B safely and comfortably.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Duartelmatos
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:57 am

ojjunior wrote:
7+ hours in a single aisle with 3 bathrooms??
No thanks.
I'd rather make a connection somewhere.


Interesting. I bet if it were on a Delta/ United/ American B757 you would fly.
 
geoshina
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:36 am

Thibault973 wrote:
LXwing wrote:
Yes, definitely.
I've heard rumors that João Pessoa (JPA) and Maceió (MCZ) are in the pipeline.
And I would guess that São Luís (SLZ) would be likely too.


If they couldn’t make Manaus and Campinas work, I really can’t see how they could make Joao Pessoa, which is only 120km from Recife and can barely sustain any domestic flights, work.


Azul got the flights out of VCP, which is their hub. It has worked so far, since Azul flies daily to LIS (sometimes 2 daily) and has recently begun 3 weekly to OPO.




PS: Brazil no longer has the 2 baggage free. TAP even have fares which do not include baggage.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:44 am

Crew rest seats may be the last row of Y, technically on a flight that length crew don't need a lay flat rest area for a lot of airlines, besides with the crew count on the A321they won't get an opportunity to rest anyway...:-P
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: TAP schedules first non stop A321LR service between Europa and South America

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:20 am

Duartelmatos wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
7+ hours in a single aisle with 3 bathrooms??
No thanks.
I'd rather make a connection somewhere.


Interesting. I bet if it were on a Delta/ United/ American B757 you would fly.


No I wouldn't.
Fortunately there's no such a monstruosity flying around me so I don't need to be worried about it anymore.
Even when it was around I've chosen other airlines/flights/routes just to fly widebodies and not to be cramped into these single aisle tuna cans for any of 3+ hours flights.
Oh yes, I choose my route base on aircraft type. Yes, all the time.

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