Flanker7
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KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:40 am

A KLM 747-400 ERF operated by Martinair lost part of a flap during the approach to Harare. The flap section separated the wing about 30 km southeast of Harare, the crew landed the aircraft safely. The flap section was found near the village of Chitungwiza and fortunately caused no injuries or damage. KLM started an investigation in how this section separated. Aircraft involved is PH-CKA delivered in 2003.

Source luchtvaartnieuws.nl
Flying blue only if possible
 
76er
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:27 am

This aircraft had just returned to service a few days ago after getting hit by that ET 787 in DAR last month. Talk about bad luck..
 
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Dutchy
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:30 am

Not a good day for KLM, in the meantime at Schiphol, a KLM 738 crashed into an A319 of Easyjet during a pushback.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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keesje
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:32 am

Dutchy wrote:
Not a good day for KLM, in the meantime at Schiphol, a KLM 738 crashed into an A319 of Easyjet during a pushback.


We don't know yet if that was accidentally.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Dutchy
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:41 am

keesje wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Not a good day for KLM, in the meantime at Schiphol, a KLM 738 crashed into an A319 of Easyjet during a pushback.


We don't know yet if that was accidentally.


Take out your competitor in a physical sense :P
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:19 am

Image

https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/5962639/tw ... iphol.html

Seems like light damage, but still out of action for today.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:34 am

Image

Twitter source

Quite a big piece.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:39 am

"the crew landed the aircraft safely"

Were they even aware of the problem ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
AirwayBill
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:44 am

 
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keesje
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:45 am

Image

Dirt, I assume.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Flanker7
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:58 am

Aesma wrote:
"the crew landed the aircraft safely"

Were they even aware of the problem ?

There is no mention if the crew was aware of the separation. However i assume that the must have noticed something in the behavior of the aircraft during the approach.
Flying blue only if possible
 
Flanker7
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:26 am

76er wrote:
This aircraft had just returned to service a few days ago after getting hit by that ET 787 in DAR last month. Talk about bad luck..


CKA and the African continent do not have a good relationship it seems :D
Flying blue only if possible
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:00 am

AirwayBill wrote:


They need to ground the 747 before anything more serious happens! #sarcasm
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
thaiflyer
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:38 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
AirwayBill wrote:


They need to ground the 747 before anything more serious happens! #sarcasm


I agree and I would ground all Boeing planes just to be sure.
 
AirwayBill
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:51 am

thaiflyer wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
AirwayBill wrote:


They need to ground the 747 before anything more serious happens! #sarcasm


I agree and I would ground all Boeing planes just to be sure.


All American-made jets in general! :bigthumbsup:
 
CFRPwingALbody
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:36 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Image

Twitter source

Quite a big piece.


Indeed a huge piece.
If you look at the actuator bracket at the top of the image, it looks to have broken midway.
At the bottom Dutchy's other post showed more ductile failure in a much sturdier beam. And there is damage to the flap. I expect this is secondary damage resulting from the top actuator failing.
 
chiki
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:20 pm

Good thing is noone was injured,
https://twitter.com/hati_G/status/11485 ... 67648?s=19


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MalevTU134
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:35 pm

That flap looks astonishingly intact, considering it fell from considerable hight.
 
Zaf
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:52 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
That flap looks astonishingly intact, considering it fell from considerable hight.

Perhaps it glided slowly.
AirwayBill wrote:

Time to retire the dinosaur
 
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DocLightning
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:47 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
That flap looks astonishingly intact, considering it fell from considerable hight.


It's pretty light (interior is honeycomb foam), so terminal velocity is not that high and it's meant to take quite a bit of force.

I'm astonished that the two large pieces of metal just snapped like that. Corrosion probably.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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ER757
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:24 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Image

https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/5962639/tw ... iphol.html

Seems like light damage, but still out of action for today.

Someone's gotta say it....."That should buff right out"
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:33 pm

DocLightning wrote:
...

I'm astonished that the two large pieces of metal just snapped like that. Corrosion probably.


I'm more astonished that they send a 744 to Harare.
 
76er
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:52 pm

MP has been flying to HRE for decades. Bringing in general cargo and relief goods, picking up flowers and veggies. Nothing new here, except that now the plane is usually blue i.s.o. white and red.
 
m007j
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:05 pm

ER757 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Image

https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/5962639/tw ... iphol.html

Seems like light damage, but still out of action for today.

Someone's gotta say it....."That should buff right out"


Oh no, that right there has to be a write-off. You can't come back from that kind of winglet damage.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:30 pm

DocLightning wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
That flap looks astonishingly intact, considering it fell from considerable hight.


It's pretty light (interior is honeycomb foam), so terminal velocity is not that high and it's meant to take quite a bit of force.

I'm astonished that the two large pieces of metal just snapped like that. Corrosion probably.

It seems to me there is another bracket between the two ones with broken rods, closer to the one away from the camera. In that case, three fasteners failed. I’d assume one failed and the (one or) two others broke as a consequence. Corrosion alone would be unlikely, but in combination with a fatigue crack or similar sounds likely.

Can anyone identify the part more accurately? It is a trailing edge flap and not a leading edge slat, isn’t it?

/Fredrik
 
MalevTU134
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:23 pm

DocLightning wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
That flap looks astonishingly intact, considering it fell from considerable hight.


It's pretty light (interior is honeycomb foam), so terminal velocity is not that high and it's meant to take quite a bit of force.

I'm astonished that the two large pieces of metal just snapped like that. Corrosion probably.

According to Newton, weight is irrelevant to terminal velocity.
 
JimIA
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:27 pm

That's only true in a vacuum. That flap is way too big to fit in a Dyson.
 
chiki
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:39 pm

BartSimpson wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
...

I'm astonished that the two large pieces of metal just snapped like that. Corrosion probably.


I'm more astonished that they send a 744 to Harare.
Sometimes they fly Lamborghini, Rolls Royce Phantoms and Cullans, Maybachs, a couple of Bugattis all in the past 12 months.

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ER757
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:40 pm

m007j wrote:
ER757 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Image

https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/5962639/tw ... iphol.html

Seems like light damage, but still out of action for today.

Someone's gotta say it....."That should buff right out"


Oh no, that right there has to be a write-off. You can't come back from that kind of winglet damage.

Silly me, you are right of course. What was I thinking? :lol:
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:40 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
That flap looks astonishingly intact, considering it fell from considerable hight.


It's pretty light (interior is honeycomb foam), so terminal velocity is not that high and it's meant to take quite a bit of force.

I'm astonished that the two large pieces of metal just snapped like that. Corrosion probably.

According to Newton, weight is irrelevant to terminal velocity.

No, he didn’t, and no, it isn’t. Newtonian mechanics says that two objects falling in a vacuum will accelerate at the same rate. He was not however describing terminal velocity, which is the speed which an object reaches falling through a fluid, when the force exerted by gravity on an object is balanced by the forced exerted by drag on it. Given the force exerted by gravity, as per Newton, is equal to mass times acceleration, the mass of an object is very much relevant to terminal velocity. Indeed the formula to work out terminal velocity is Vt=sqrt(2*m*g/ρ*A*Cd).

You can demonstrate this yourself: take a small heavy object (such as a paperweight or a hammer) and a large light object (such as a sheet of paper or a feather). Drop them both and see which one arrives at the ground first. Try to avoid dropping the heavy object on your foot. If you want the bells and whistles demonstration, repeat in a vacuum to see the difference between terminal velocity in a fluid, and continuous gravitational acceleration in a vacuum. The Moon is a great place for the second part of this experiment, albeit a little difficult to get to. Thankfully David Scott on Apollo 15 did this for us, so we can use that if we want: https://youtu.be/ZVfhztmK9zI

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
76er
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:54 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:

Can anyone identify the part more accurately?


Not that it matters, but it is about half of the RH upper inboard flap.
 
Antarius
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:15 pm

keesje wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Not a good day for KLM, in the meantime at Schiphol, a KLM 738 crashed into an A319 of Easyjet during a pushback.


We don't know yet if that was accidentally.


What other possibilities are there?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR MAA KTM
 
Virtual737
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:33 pm

ER757 wrote:
Someone's gotta say it....."That should buff right out"


Please! Time to put an end to such foolish posts.

It needs speed tape.
 
chiki
Posts: 333
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:34 pm

Well the 747 has been busy carrying luxury cars for politicians in Harare, all these came over the past 12 months. All for Zanu connections including Moti who is a millionaire based in SA.ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

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chiki
Posts: 333
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Re: KLM 747-400ERF loses flap during approach

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:42 pm

So KLM has made money transporting these cars wished if the flap had fallen on just one of these cars and not into a poor neighbourhood. Well still enjoy a VLA flying into HRE once in a while for us avgeeks.ImageImageImage

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