mxaxai
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France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:41 pm

France is planning to charge a fixed tax per emplanement, starting 2020.

The charge will be 1,50 € for intra-EU destinations and 3,00 € outside of it in economy class; and 9,00 € or 18,00 € in business class. (about 1,2 times as much in USD)
Flights to Corsica and french overseas deparments will be exempt, as will be transit passengers. The money will be entirely reinvested in French infrastructure, primarily the french railways.

Unsurprisingly, AF is not happy. On the other hand, Germany has been charging such taxes for several years now and LH has fared quite well. We'll see if KL-AF will use this as an argument to shift more traffic to AMS.

https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/ ... r=RSS-3208
 
Dieuwer
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:43 pm

Slap airline codes on every train and train station, and let pax connect to intercontinental flights from train to plane. Problem solved.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:11 pm

I smell another AF strike coming ;)
 
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seahawk
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:13 pm

That is practically nothing.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:21 pm

Why the difference between classes of travel?
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
WayexTDI
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:26 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
Why the difference between classes of travel?

Most likely, the official reason is that Business/First Class take more space in a plane than Economy; the not-so-official reason is that Business/First Class passengers have deeper pockets...
 
TheOldDude
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:38 pm

seahawk wrote:
That is practically nothing.


Check back in a few years. The US Underwood Simmons Tariff Act of 1913 instituted the federal income tax. It initially raised very little money; look at how much is raised today.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:42 pm

seahawk wrote:
That is practically nothing.


It's enough to piss off Air France.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... se-ecotaks

This article, unfortunately only in Dutch, says Air France responded angrily to the plans of the French government to impose an aviation tax. It would mostly hurt it's already loss-making domestic network.

I can kind of understand this. Even though it's only a small amount of money, it's the principle that counts. To be taxed or not to be taxed. There are people who will go out of their way to avoid taxes and Air France would lose those passengers.
 
finnishway
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:49 pm

How long will it take for Ryanair to start saying they will be cutting routes from France?
 
WayexTDI
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:52 pm

finnishway wrote:
How long will it take for Ryanair to start saying they will be cutting routes from France?

Nah, Ryanair will charge the tax to the passenger and never pay it back to the French government :box:
 
SCQ83
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:52 pm

finnishway wrote:
How long will it take for Ryanair to start saying they will be cutting routes from France?


Lol that was my first though.

I imagine the UK will already not be considered UE for those tax-purposes, so a short Dinard-Stansted or Nantes-East Midlands flight will be subjected to a 3 EUR tax and FR will not be happy about it.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:57 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
finnishway wrote:
How long will it take for Ryanair to start saying they will be cutting routes from France?


Lol that was my first though.

I imagine the UK will already not be considered UE for those tax-purposes, so a short Dinard-Stansted or Nantes-East Midlands flight will be subjected to a 3 EUR tax and FR will not be happy about it.


Dinard - JER - STN (boat + plane) ;)
 
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Aesma
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:59 pm

This is partly in response to the yellow vests, who are incensed (rightly, in my opinion, and I don't support them at all) that they're paying a tax worth 100% or more on fuel for their cars, but that aircraft are flying using tax free kerosene.

The amount is very small, I doubt it will have any measurable effect on traffic.

Connections aren't taxed, so I don't see how it would contribute to moving flights from CDG to AMS. Do you think people would rather ride several hours in a train from Paris to AMS to avoid that tax ? And how would that be cheaper than flying directly from CDG ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Dieuwer
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:02 pm

Aesma wrote:
This is partly in response to the yellow vests, who are incensed (rightly, in my opinion, and I don't support them at all) that they're paying a tax worth 100% or more on fuel for their cars, but that aircraft are flying using tax free kerosene.

The amount is very small, I doubt it will have any measurable effect on traffic.

Connections aren't taxed, so I don't see how it would contribute to moving flights from CDG to AMS. Do you think people would rather ride several hours in a train from Paris to AMS to avoid that tax ? And how would that be cheaper than flying directly from CDG ?


Perhaps BOS-CDG-XYD is faster than BOS-CDG-LYS?
 
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Aesma
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:08 pm

Then the tax doesn't enter the equation, you take the best route.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:09 pm

Aesma wrote:
This is partly in response to the yellow vests, who are incensed (rightly, in my opinion, and I don't support them at all) that they're paying a tax worth 100% or more on fuel for their cars, but that aircraft are flying using tax free kerosene.

The amount is very small, I doubt it will have any measurable effect on traffic.

Connections aren't taxed, so I don't see how it would contribute to moving flights from CDG to AMS. Do you think people would rather ride several hours in a train from Paris to AMS to avoid that tax ? And how would that be cheaper than flying directly from CDG ?


I just spent 6 weeks in Europe, rented a car 5 different times. After filling up the cars to turn in and paying what I paid, I touch down at XNA and on the way home see that Sam's Club's gas is $2.17 a gal. God Bless America.
 
SCQ83
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:16 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
I just spent 6 weeks in Europe, rented a car 5 different times. After filling up the cars to turn in and paying what I paid, I touch down at XNA and on the way home see that Sam's Club's gas is $2.17 a gal. God Bless America.


If you were touching down at LAX, SAN or SFO you would not pay $2.17 a gallon.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:19 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
I just spent 6 weeks in Europe, rented a car 5 different times. After filling up the cars to turn in and paying what I paid, I touch down at XNA and on the way home see that Sam's Club's gas is $2.17 a gal. God Bless America.


If you were touching down at LAX, SAN or SFO you would not pay $2.17 a gallon.


Missing the point...in true a.net fashion
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
SCQ83
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:20 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Perhaps BOS-CDG-XYD is faster than BOS-CDG-LYS?


I think part of these new taxes in Europe will be set to help high-speed trains.

Most high speed lines are underused (compared to maximum capacity) and lose money. The EU also requires now that HSL have competition with private operators (this is already quite extended in Italy and somehow in Germany, but there are no private operators yet in Spain or France). So a good way to make trains more competitive is making flights more expensive. They can always play the ecologic argument so no discussion about those new taxes.
 
mxaxai
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:20 pm

Aesma wrote:
Connections aren't taxed, so I don't see how it would contribute to moving flights from CDG to AMS. Do you think people would rather ride several hours in a train from Paris to AMS to avoid that tax ? And how would that be cheaper than flying directly from CDG ?

AF-KL has long been on record that the cost at AF is high, perhaps too high. The tax would be just another drop in the bucket. But it could be used as an excuse to transfer traffic.

Also, connections fill flights but direct passengers pay for them. If the tax makes short routes <1 hour unviable, the lost connection passengers may result in empty seats on AF's long haul network. The passenger doesn't care if he's flying abc-CDH-xyz or abc-AMS-xyz but he will notice if there are more frequencies via AMS as a result of stronger demand on abc-AMS and xyz-AMS individually.
 
B747forever
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:25 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
I just spent 6 weeks in Europe, rented a car 5 different times. After filling up the cars to turn in and paying what I paid, I touch down at XNA and on the way home see that Sam's Club's gas is $2.17 a gal. God Bless America.


If you were touching down at LAX, SAN or SFO you would not pay $2.17 a gallon.


Currently regular gas at my local gas station in LA trades for about $3.40 a gallon. Just about 50% cheaper than gas in Sweden when I was there 10 days ago.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
VSMUT
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:30 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Slap airline codes on every train and train station, and let pax connect to intercontinental flights from train to plane. Problem solved.


Exactly how much do you suppose that would cost? The train from CDG to Paris is just over €10. The savings wouldn't even cover the administrative fee of such a deal. If you slap codes on trains, you also have to deal with EU 261 whenever the train fails to bring a passenger to the airport on time.
 
mxaxai
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:31 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Perhaps BOS-CDG-XYD is faster than BOS-CDG-LYS?


I think part of these new taxes in Europe will be set to help high-speed trains.

Most high speed lines are underused (compared to maximum capacity) and lose money. The EU also requires now that HSL have competition with private operators (this is already quite extended in Italy and somehow in Germany, but there are no private operators yet in Spain or France). So a good way to make trains more competitive is making flights more expensive. They can always play the ecologic argument so no discussion about those new taxes.

Also remember that gasoline and diesel as well as electrical power are heavily taxed (up to 60 % of the sales price is taxes). Usually for "ecologic reasons". Meanwhile, Jet-A is tax-free.
I don't think flying should be inherently expensive, but the cost of energy should definitely be comparable for all modes of transportation.
 
ozglobal
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:03 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Perhaps BOS-CDG-XYD is faster than BOS-CDG-LYS?


I think part of these new taxes in Europe will be set to help high-speed trains.

Most high speed lines are underused (compared to maximum capacity) and lose money. The EU also requires now that HSL have competition with private operators (this is already quite extended in Italy and somehow in Germany, but there are no private operators yet in Spain or France). So a good way to make trains more competitive is making flights more expensive. They can always play the ecologic argument so no discussion about those new taxes.


'Most high speed lines are underused (compared to maximum capacity) and lose money.' Care to provide your sources for this sweeping statement? Care to explain why Air France's domestic network is underused and loss making. It is because most corners of France are now connected by 300km/h HSR and it is usually much faster and much more pleasant to go by train, so why fly? Some city pairs no longer even have flights. e.g CDG - BRU. where the TGV travel time city centre to city centre is 1:18hrs. In Western Europe, everyone prefers HSR city to city where it exists and is under 4 hrs.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:06 pm

Aesma wrote:
Connections aren't taxed, so I don't see how it would contribute to moving flights from CDG to AMS. Do you think people would rather ride several hours in a train from Paris to AMS to avoid that tax ? And how would that be cheaper than flying directly from CDG ?


That wouldn't do any good since the Netherlands also has plans to impose an aviation tax. However Belgium doesn't, so I could see a number of Dutch and French passengers traveling to Belgium to start their journey from there. Specially if you travel long haul, the country of departure would make a difference and by self-connections you could easily pick the cheapest (untaxed) country to depart from. That way, at most you're paying short haul tax for a long haul haul flight. Having a too high tax would seriously harm the long haul traffic from a country, while at the same time causing growth in another country with a lower tax.
 
canmau
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:09 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Slap airline codes on every train and train station, and let pax connect to intercontinental flights from train to plane. Problem solved.


This is done to some extent in Germany with LH and Deutsche Bahn, I hope it does become more widespread
 
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SamYeager2016
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:12 pm

You only have to look at the UK to see what happens once an aviation tax has been introduced. It's just so tempting for finance ministers to keep ramping the rate up and extending its reach.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:17 pm

canmau wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Slap airline codes on every train and train station, and let pax connect to intercontinental flights from train to plane. Problem solved.


This is done to some extent in Germany with LH and Deutsche Bahn, I hope it does become more widespread


It's also done on the Thalys that runs between Amsterdam and Paris with a stop in Brussels on the way. Since the train stops at both Amsterdam airport and Paris Charles de Gaulle airport, it's perfect as a feeder and eliminates the need for flights. It's strange to see that France still has so many domestic flights on sectors where trains are available, however I assume they got some kind of legal obligation to fly those routes.
 
musman9853
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:17 pm

mxaxai wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Perhaps BOS-CDG-XYD is faster than BOS-CDG-LYS?


I think part of these new taxes in Europe will be set to help high-speed trains.

Most high speed lines are underused (compared to maximum capacity) and lose money. The EU also requires now that HSL have competition with private operators (this is already quite extended in Italy and somehow in Germany, but there are no private operators yet in Spain or France). So a good way to make trains more competitive is making flights more expensive. They can always play the ecologic argument so no discussion about those new taxes.

Also remember that gasoline and diesel as well as electrical power are heavily taxed (up to 60 % of the sales price is taxes). Usually for "ecologic reasons". Meanwhile, Jet-A is tax-free.
I don't think flying should be inherently expensive, but the cost of energy should definitely be comparable for all modes of transportation.


jet fuel being tax exempt is so weird. we need to be reducing our carbon emissions, a small tax on fuel isn't a bad thing.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
SCQ83
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:17 pm

ozglobal wrote:
'Most high speed lines are underused (compared to maximum capacity) and lose money.' Care to provide your sources for this sweeping statement? Care to explain why Air France's domestic network is underused and loss making. It is because most corners of France are now connected by 300km/h HSR and it is usually much faster and much more pleasant to go by train, so why fly? Some city pairs no longer even have flights. e.g CDG - BRU. where the TGV travel time city centre to city centre is 1:18hrs. In Western Europe, everyone prefers HSR city to city where it exists and is under 4 hrs.


About 2/3 of France's HSL lose money:

https://www.capital.fr/entreprises-marc ... es-1234833

In Spain all of them :)

https://elpais.com/economia/2015/03/26/ ... 11155.html

So they need more passengers and taking them from planes is a logical step. It is also a way to save money and maximise resources. It doesn't make a lot of sense to extend terminals in Spain or France when many of those passengers can take a train.

Btw Brussels Airlines still flies BRU-CDG.
 
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seahawk
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:20 pm

TheOldDude wrote:
seahawk wrote:
That is practically nothing.


Check back in a few years. The US Underwood Simmons Tariff Act of 1913 instituted the federal income tax. It initially raised very little money; look at how much is raised today.


Hopefully it will and hope fully they will price the Co2 emission fairly in the future. Thee tax would be meaningful if we would talk around 20 Euro for flights in France, 50 Euro for flights in Europe and 100+ Euros for everything else. It is retarded that I pay taxes for the fuel in my car, the fuel used by the bus, the electricity used by the train, but not for the kerosene used by the planes.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:22 pm

SamYeager2016 wrote:
You only have to look at the UK to see what happens once an aviation tax has been introduced. It's just so tempting for finance ministers to keep ramping the rate up and extending its reach.


Tempting indeed, however so far it has always been loss-making. Wherever an aviation tax has been introduced, the damage to the economy has always been greater than the earnings of the tax. The UK is no exception, it's obvious that the APD is harming the economy and hardly has any impact on the environment. This is proven in every scientific report about it, but when introducing an aviation tax politicians are often tempted to only look at the proposed earnings and not at the economic damage it causes.
 
leghorn
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:28 pm

it doesn't help the likes of Belfast which is loosing flights to Dublin as it is another tax to pay(small as it is)
it doesn't help Strasbourg with Karlsruhe just up the road.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:34 pm

seahawk wrote:
Hopefully it will and hope fully they will price the Co2 emission fairly in the future. Thee tax would be meaningful if we would talk around 20 Euro for flights in France, 50 Euro for flights in Europe and 100+ Euros for everything else. It is retarded that I pay taxes for the fuel in my car, the fuel used by the bus, the electricity used by the train, but not for the kerosene used by the planes.


You might find it retarded, but when you think about it it's very logical. In aviation, countries are competing with each other and one way of attracting passengers (and therefor boosting the economy) is by having low taxes.

What do you think would happen when France would charge € 100 aviation tax on top of the ticket price on a TATL flights? Would that stop people from traveling? No, but they would travel different. They would take the train to the nearest airport outside France. This could be Brussels, Frankfurt, Zurich, Milan, Barcelona, etc. Then they would fly from there. Ticket price would be similar, however minus the € 100 aviation tax which they keep in their pocket. Because these passengers don't fly from France anymore, it harms the French economy. At the same time it boosts the Belgian, German, Swiss, Italian or Spanish economy.

Aviation taxes don't work, there have been numerous scientific investigations about it and they all have the same outcome. They harm the economy and have zero impact on the environment. Every flight less from one country is one flight more from another.

The Belgian government has already said they will never impose an aviation tax. The reason is obvious, they gain the passengers that other countries lose and it's a big boost to their economy.
 
SteelChair
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:47 pm

Apparently the elites in France didnt learn anything from the yellow vests. People of their political ilk always have the same answer to every problem...... raise taxes ostensibly on quote-unquote the rich. One more step down the road of turning France into Venezuela
 
mxaxai
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:03 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Hopefully it will and hope fully they will price the Co2 emission fairly in the future. Thee tax would be meaningful if we would talk around 20 Euro for flights in France, 50 Euro for flights in Europe and 100+ Euros for everything else. It is retarded that I pay taxes for the fuel in my car, the fuel used by the bus, the electricity used by the train, but not for the kerosene used by the planes.


You might find it retarded, but when you think about it it's very logical. In aviation, countries are competing with each other and one way of attracting passengers (and therefor boosting the economy) is by having low taxes.

What do you think would happen when France would charge € 100 aviation tax on top of the ticket price on a TATL flights? Would that stop people from traveling? No, but they would travel different. They would take the train to the nearest airport outside France. This could be Brussels, Frankfurt, Zurich, Milan, Barcelona, etc. Then they would fly from there. Ticket price would be similar, however minus the € 100 aviation tax which they keep in their pocket. Because these passengers don't fly from France anymore, it harms the French economy. At the same time it boosts the Belgian, German, Swiss, Italian or Spanish economy.

Aviation taxes don't work, there have been numerous scientific investigations about it and they all have the same outcome. They harm the economy and have zero impact on the environment. Every flight less from one country is one flight more from another.

The Belgian government has already said they will never impose an aviation tax. The reason is obvious, they gain the passengers that other countries lose and it's a big boost to their economy.

But what if you had a fixed fuel tax / carbon tax throughout the EU? Sure, there's still Switzerland and the UK but nobody would take a 4:19 h long train ride Paris to ZRH just to save a few Euros (note that this assumes a high-speed train, which isn't cheap either). From most parts of Europe, the nearest long-haul non-EU airport is even further away.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:12 pm

mxaxai wrote:
But what if you had a fixed fuel tax / carbon tax throughout the EU? Sure, there's still Switzerland and the UK but nobody would take a 4:19 h long train ride Paris to ZRH just to save a few Euros (note that this assumes a high-speed train, which isn't cheap either). From most parts of Europe, the nearest long-haul non-EU airport is even further away.


Then you would fly short haul to a non-EU country where you self-transfer to a long haul flight. That way you would only pay short haul tax which isn't nearly as much as long haul tax. Since both flights are on separate tickets, you don't pay tax on the long haul flight or only as much tax as the non-EU country charges.

Norway and Iceland are also non-EU countries, but you could also think about Turkey or Morocco. Turkey just opened a mega airport in Istanbul and they're looking for passengers for it. If they can do that by offering self-connections between the EU and Asia you bet that's what they'll do. As far as the EU is concerned, you're only going to Istanbul which is a short haul destination. From Istanbul you'll be flying to Singapore, but that flight doesn't touch the EU and as it's on a separate ticket it's not subject to EU taxes. If you'd fly straight from the EU to Singapore you'd pay a whole lot more for your ticket due to the taxes. Turkey is one to profit from that.
 
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william
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:21 pm

So where does the money from this tax go to? How does this "tax" help climate change? Some secret lab working on engines that do not pollute?
 
mxaxai
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:26 pm

william wrote:
So where does the money from this tax go to?

Mostly railways.
 
bluefrog
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:31 pm

living in france saw a bit on the news saying it's for all transports not just train travel ,anyway like as been mentioned before ,why do AF still fly LYS MARS or LYS /Paris ,simple cheaper on the plane though faster iby the TGV f they want to fill the trains which i find busy from Lyon to Marseille they need to lower fares ,i looked at flights from Lyon to London on the train over 400euros for me and my son yet LYS to LHR just over 220
 
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lightsaber
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:51 pm

Taxes only increase. The ME3/TK say thank you.

The cost of something tends to be expressed as fuel consumed to make it happen.

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Dutchy
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:05 pm

They should do this in a meaningful way within the EU, not country for country. Then you are creating a level playing field again.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
bennett123
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:32 pm

People want the Government to provide Goodies. This costs money.

The result is Tax. Simple.

Clearly cost/tax has an impact.

Question is how many will pay up and how many will change their behaviour to avoid the tax.
 
Kilopond
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:39 pm

leghorn wrote:
[...]it doesn't help Strasbourg with Karlsruhe just up the road.


Just forget it! The equivalent tax is much higher in the FRG, namely between € 7.46 and € 41.97 per departure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_ai ... nger_taxes
 
WayexTDI
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:32 pm

bluefrog wrote:
living in france saw a bit on the news saying it's for all transports not just train travel ,anyway like as been mentioned before ,why do AF still fly LYS MARS or LYS /Paris ,simple cheaper on the plane though faster iby the TGV f they want to fill the trains which i find busy from Lyon to Marseille they need to lower fares ,i looked at flights from Lyon to London on the train over 400euros for me and my son yet LYS to LHR just over 220

You do understand that not every one flying LYS-CDG stops in CDG?
Actually, how many pax fly this route only? I wouldn't be surprised if many of them just make a stopover in CDG on their merry way to a further destination. This is simply impractical to take the TGV from Lyon to Paris, then take the plane.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:45 pm

Dutchy wrote:
They should do this in a meaningful way within the EU, not country for country. Then you are creating a level playing field again.


Note that France isn't taxing aviation fuel - it is taxing passenger air travel. That fuel isn't taxed is a testament (good or bad) to the power of international air lobbies. France can do this on its own - if it waited for the EU you could be sure some retrograde, coal-loving member of the 28 would veto it.
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13638
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:56 pm

It's a money grab. The Italian RAI even called it a "Greta Tax", after that child who skips school for her "Friday School Strikes".
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
dabsen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:07 pm

Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:43 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
You do understand that not every one flying LYS-CDG stops in CDG?
Actually, how many pax fly this route only? I wouldn't be surprised if many of them just make a stopover in CDG on their merry way to a further destination. This is simply impractical to take the TGV from Lyon to Paris, then take the plane.


Is it impractical, though? This is actually a good example of what's wrong with the current set-up. There are already more *direct* high-speed trains circulating between Lyon and CDG (that's right, I'm talking about the airport's train station) than there are AF/Hop flights between LYS and CDG. The flights are faster (I'd say about 50 mins), but the trains run from Lyon's main station, which probably saves the average traveller about half an hour of transit time. Obviously, AF is an airline and interested in running flights rather than selling train tickets or coordinating with a train company, but if the environmental costs of the flights were (at least a little) factored into the ticket price, I suspect codesharing would be a no-brainer.

Now, will this tax help bring about a change there? It's not clear to me, as it seems that a LYS-CDG-BOS and a CDG-BOS would be taxed equally.
 
hpff
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:48 pm

The tax is minimal and probably necessary to offset carbon costs. Based on Germany’s implementation, I’d be surprised if very many people changed their travel plans to save the tax.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: France to charge aviation tax

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:53 pm

€1.50 - €3? Doesn't sound like it's a lot.
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