Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:17 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Maverick623 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Ah, the good ol' "you ain't union, you ain't protected"...

You do understand that companies cannot fire someone just willy-nilly? You still need an "official" reason to let someone go.


Patently false in the US, unless you live in Montana (the only state that is not "at-will").

It is completely legal (and happens everyday) to fire someone for no reason, or a bad reason.

BUT, what you do not understand, is that those reasons are overturned when the employee decides to fight back and it ends up in court.

And then again, companies do not fire willy-nilly since it ends up costing them as recruiting and training a replacement is not cheap.

You still don’t get it,if they are not unionized and the company acted legally what are they going to sue and win?

Terminated employees don’t have the money to take on a company. A company can fire you for no reason as long as the company follows the law. It’s happened at Delta numerous times.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:18 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Ah, the good ol' "you ain't union, you ain't protected"...

You do understand that companies cannot fire someone just willy-nilly? You still need an "official" reason to let someone go.
Also, you do understand that firing an employee cost the company money? They need to advertise the open position, interview candidates, hire and vet the candidate, then train the new employee on internal procedures, software, etc... Do you know how much this cost a company???

And DL mechanics working on others' planes than DL's is irrelevant; they have a job and fulfill this job as required. They need to start worrying when TechOps stops working on others' planes, and this is not what's happening now.

If you are an employee at will you can be fired for any reason as long as the it’s not against the law.

You have zero knowledge about labor laws.

If an airline moves the work from Delta the mechanics have zero job protection.

You have zero knowledge on how management work either...
Delta TechOps is going nowhere, they are actually expanding.

Expanding doing overhaul of planes and engines for other airlines, not their own.
 
NWAESC
Posts: 928
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:08 am

Nope.

Expanding of TechOps overall. Line maintenance, component work, and more.

More revenue and more jobs. That's a good thing.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3248
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:18 am

NWAESC wrote:
Never said they didn’t.

In this case, the opposite is happening.


Then what was your point?

WayexTDI wrote:
And the fact is they won't do it just willy-nilly because it costs them in the end (recruiting and training a replacement is not cheap).


No one is talking about willy-nilly stuff here.

If you're a poor performer, that isn't willy-nilly.
If you hop to the wrong side of the fence, that isn't willy-nilly.
If you're simply one of too many, that isn't willy-nilly.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:52 pm

If the membership truely hates the union, this may now come into play especially if Trump gets a second term.

https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2 ... ions-boot/
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1869
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:17 pm

apodino wrote:
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
usairways787 wrote:
In DFW alone, on the fleet side, over 65,000 bags miss connected, and had to be put on other flights, or sent to the passengers house, oh this was also just for the month of June. This is also the first month that they've rolled out their new system, that we explained and tried to tell them why it wouldn't work. They didn't listen. The month and years prior it was a steady and consistent at 15,000 miss connects a month, including with IROP situations. Their excuse for this monstrosity? Weather. Not incompetence, weather.


Pardon my ignorance, but what is this new system you're referring to? I'm just curious, as a passenger

Boof02671 wrote:
Last week at MCO AA needed a starter for the V2500 engine on an Airbus, well low and behold AA didn’t have one serviceable in stock. How can an airline that has V2500 equipped A320 family and not have one? Someone needs to be fired for this, and that’s a management function.

AA had to buy one from DL at MIA and have it an air taxi get it. That goes down as a maintenance delay, yet that’s not the mechanic’s fault.


Since MCO is an outstation, I'm assuming it's not too surprising they would not have this part. It is surprising that AA didn't have the part at their MIA hub though, right?


MCO is an outstation, but its also a MX base that does a ton of overnight MX. This is an old LUS base as well, meaning they are very experienced on the Airbus. But your underlying point is correct, you have 8 AA hubs that all do MX on the Airbus fleet and none of them had this part so they had to order it from Delta. That is mindboggling to say the least.

In the meantime the judge overseeing this case is bringing down the hammer harder against the Union. This is not going to get any prettier.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2019/07/10/american-airlines-mechanics-slowdown.html



They didn't have the part because AA management has outsourced all the parts storage!!!!!

Even in Miami, a major hub, When AA needs a part, they have to call a contractor on 36th street to bring it over! If the contractor says meh, or any other link in the chain breaks, no part! In a major hub!
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1010
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:41 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
If you are an employee at will you can be fired for any reason as long as the it’s not against the law.

You have zero knowledge about labor laws.

If an airline moves the work from Delta the mechanics have zero job protection.

You have zero knowledge on how management work either...
Delta TechOps is going nowhere, they are actually expanding.

Expanding doing overhaul of planes and engines for other airlines, not their own.

Do you really think DL mechanics care if they work on DL, AA or military planes? No, they care that they have a job everyday and a paycheck.
They might take greater pride working on DL planes; but they know very well that those other planes keep the TOC bays full. What more can you ask for???
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1010
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:45 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
And the fact is they won't do it just willy-nilly because it costs them in the end (recruiting and training a replacement is not cheap).


No one is talking about willy-nilly stuff here.

If you're a poor performer, that isn't willy-nilly.

If you're a poor performer, you do not have a place in that organization.
So, you're saying that unions will prevent a poor-performing employee from getting disciplined, up to and including termination of employment? That's what unions are for???
 
Antarius
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Update: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/bus ... ncelations

In the ongoing battle between American Airlines and its mechanics, U.S. District Judge John McBryde approved the company's request Wednesday night for an order forcing the two unions overseeing maintenance workers to take more drastic steps to end an alleged work slowdown.

American Airlines has argued a June 14 court order didn't stop a coordinated effort to slow down work, resulting in flight delays and cancellations for thousands of passengers.

The new order doesn't say what kind of discipline and fines mechanics could face, but the unions are under pressure to comply with the judge's orders or face steeper consequences down the line. Union representatives declined to comment.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
apodino
Topic Author
Posts: 3484
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:11 pm

Rumor has it the Union and the Company are going back to the bargaining table next week. A lot of people think a TA could come out of this because of the hammer the judge has laid down on the union. The question is, would the membership ratify an agreement? They may not be in the mood to if the contract doesn't deliver. Then the union and the company are both in very tough spots.

Also of note, the union is threatening to fine its own members if they don't comply with the judges order? Good luck in keeping the membership in line the first time you try to pull that one.
 
apodino
Topic Author
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:12 pm

Antarius wrote:
Update: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/bus ... ncelations

In the ongoing battle between American Airlines and its mechanics, U.S. District Judge John McBryde approved the company's request Wednesday night for an order forcing the two unions overseeing maintenance workers to take more drastic steps to end an alleged work slowdown.

American Airlines has argued a June 14 court order didn't stop a coordinated effort to slow down work, resulting in flight delays and cancellations for thousands of passengers.

The new order doesn't say what kind of discipline and fines mechanics could face, but the unions are under pressure to comply with the judge's orders or face steeper consequences down the line. Union representatives declined to comment.

its behind a paywall.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:14 pm

And the FAA has put both parties on notice, which is the union’s leverage.
 
Antarius
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:15 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
And the FAA has put both parties on notice, which is the union’s leverage.


Both sides met in court a week ago. the judge came down even harder after that.

Other than wishful thinking, there is no leverage.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
WayexTDI
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:20 pm

apodino wrote:
Rumor has it the Union and the Company are going back to the bargaining table next week. A lot of people think a TA could come out of this because of the hammer the judge has laid down on the union. The question is, would the membership ratify an agreement? They may not be in the mood to if the contract doesn't deliver. Then the union and the company are both in very tough spots.

Also of note, the union is threatening to fine its own members if they don't comply with the judges order? Good luck in keeping the membership in line the first time you try to pull that one.

Well, the union members have decided to be represented collectively by said union; so, if said union is telling the members to stop screwing around, the members better listen.
If not, what's the point of being represented by a union? Things work both ways.
 
texl1649
Posts: 964
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:28 pm

As a Dallas resident who flies 'a lot' I just want to chime in that I despise this union, viscerally. The work slowdown is obvious and I've experienced it myself; I hope AA wins the legal battles and figures out how to limit such damages in the future. These people seem like scum to me for making folks sit on planes for hours/cancel flights because they didn't get the offer they wanted.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1869
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:36 pm

texl1649 wrote:
As a Dallas resident who flies 'a lot' I just want to chime in that I despise this union, viscerally. The work slowdown is obvious and I've experienced it myself; I hope AA wins the legal battles and figures out how to limit such damages in the future. These people seem like scum to me for making folks sit on planes for hours/cancel flights because they didn't get the offer they wanted.


Passengers who pay pennies on the dollar to fly and them complain about it seem like scum to me.

Ride another airline, delta and UA are available.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
apodino
Topic Author
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:37 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
apodino wrote:
Rumor has it the Union and the Company are going back to the bargaining table next week. A lot of people think a TA could come out of this because of the hammer the judge has laid down on the union. The question is, would the membership ratify an agreement? They may not be in the mood to if the contract doesn't deliver. Then the union and the company are both in very tough spots.

Also of note, the union is threatening to fine its own members if they don't comply with the judges order? Good luck in keeping the membership in line the first time you try to pull that one.

Well, the union members have decided to be represented collectively by said union; so, if said union is telling the members to stop screwing around, the members better listen.
If not, what's the point of being represented by a union? Things work both ways.

No they didn't. The Association was imposed on the members at the time of the merger. No current union member got to vote on representation. That's why many employees keep trying card drives to oust the Association, which get quashed because of legal maneuvering and lies being told by current Union Leadership, again which was not elected democratically either.

The AA dispatchers were also part of the TWU at the time of the merger, and the TWU tried the same tactics to keep card drives out. The first attempt, they got the NMB to sign off on a claim that cards for a replacement organization were tainted, and also resulted in the international taking over the local and using the locals own dues money to sue its own elected leadership. Two years later cards were signed again, and the TWU tried to claim that there was a risk of no representation by lying about the voting procedures and also claiming the new union would not be able to raise enough money to function. In the end it was futile as the dispatchers overwhelmingly voted out the TWU and voted in PAFCA.
Last edited by apodino on Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:37 pm

Antarius wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
And the FAA has put both parties on notice, which is the union’s leverage.


Both sides met in court a week ago. the judge came down even harder after that.

Other than wishful thinking, there is no leverage.

The Judge can’t force the union to fine its members, it’s against the RLA
The Judge can’t order an AMT to violate the FARs
The Judge can’t force an AMT to work OT or take field trips.

The Unions know this Judge will rule against them, that’s why their is an Appeals Court.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:39 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Do you really think DL mechanics care if they work on DL, AA or military planes?


+1

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they don't.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
NWAESC
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:43 pm

apodino wrote:
Also of note, the union is threatening to fine its own members if they don't comply with the judges order? Good luck in keeping the membership in line the first time you try to pull that one.


And that's after they threw the membership under the bus during the hearing(s).

So much for solidarity...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Antarius
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:05 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
And the FAA has put both parties on notice, which is the union’s leverage.


Both sides met in court a week ago. the judge came down even harder after that.

Other than wishful thinking, there is no leverage.

The Judge can’t force the union to fine its members, it’s against the RLA
The Judge can’t order an AMT to violate the FARs
The Judge can’t force an AMT to work OT or take field trips.

The Unions know this Judge will rule against them, that’s why their is an Appeals Court.


Ah, so this judge is now grossly violating laws?

This is like flat earth debates.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:15 pm

Antarius wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Both sides met in court a week ago. the judge came down even harder after that.

Other than wishful thinking, there is no leverage.

The Judge can’t force the union to fine its members, it’s against the RLA
The Judge can’t order an AMT to violate the FARs
The Judge can’t force an AMT to work OT or take field trips.

The Unions know this Judge will rule against them, that’s why their is an Appeals Court.


Ah, so this judge is now grossly violating laws?

This is like flat earth debates.

Refute each point.
 
Antarius
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:23 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
The Judge can’t force the union to fine its members, it’s against the RLA
The Judge can’t order an AMT to violate the FARs
The Judge can’t force an AMT to work OT or take field trips.

The Unions know this Judge will rule against them, that’s why their is an Appeals Court.


Ah, so this judge is now grossly violating laws?

This is like flat earth debates.

Refute each point.


No. The judge isn't going to blindly and flagrantly violate obvious laws. So tin foil aside, this is a waste of time.

You already claimed that the TRO would never happen, then that once they had a hearing there is no way it would hold up. No need to do research when you are 0-fer thus far.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1010
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:25 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
The Judge can’t force the union to fine its members, it’s against the RLA
The Judge can’t order an AMT to violate the FARs
The Judge can’t force an AMT to work OT or take field trips.

The Unions know this Judge will rule against them, that’s why their is an Appeals Court.


Ah, so this judge is now grossly violating laws?

This is like flat earth debates.

Refute each point.

The Judge didn't force the union to fine its members; he/she told them to get them in line.
The Judge didn't order the AMTs to violate the FARs; he/she told them to stop BSing.
The Judge didn't force the AMTs to work OT or take field trips; he/she told them to stop BSing and apply what was agreed upon when they accepted the position.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3605
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:35 pm

texl1649 wrote:
As a Dallas resident who flies 'a lot' I just want to chime in that I despise this union, viscerally. The work slowdown is obvious and I've experienced it myself; I hope AA wins the legal battles and figures out how to limit such damages in the future. These people seem like scum to me for making folks sit on planes for hours/cancel flights because they didn't get the offer they wanted.


Not to mention the other workgroups getting screwed by the mechanics’ greed when they take their frustration out on the operation. A lot of frontline customer service staff I know are quickly losing any sympathy they had toward the mechanics.

Varsity1 wrote:
Passengers who pay pennies on the dollar to fly and them complain about it seem like scum to me.

Ride another airline, delta and UA are available.


Don’t worry, I have no intention of willingly flying AA anytime soon. From what I’ve seen, the slowdown is glaringly obvious; I’m going to fly with an airline that can get me there on time.
 
apodino
Topic Author
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:49 am

Something interesting was pointed out to me. According to most people I know, the mechanics who are the most angry would be the TWU guys, which are basically the LAA guys in places like DFW, ORD, and MIA. The IAM guys don't have nearly the urgency to get a deal done as they continue to enjoy superior medical plans, more holidays, vacations, and they still have a pension fund. However, if you read the briefs, the company is claiming that most of the actions are taking place in PHL, and CLT, which are two IAM cities on the LUS side.

Something doesn't add up here. If the mechanics that are the most mad and the most vocal are in the LAA stations, then why is the company singling out the LUS stations as places where the job actions are taking place? It doesn't make sense to me.
 
Boof02671
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:11 pm

Because the IAM guys are pissed off too. And the best way to show it is to work safe
 
NWAESC
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:58 pm

I'm sure they'll appreciate you telegraphing that to the company.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:02 pm

NWAESC wrote:
I'm sure they'll appreciate you telegraphing that to the company.

Do you really don’t think the company knows?

They posted in the motions numerous social media and forum postings one of my alias’ from another message board was used.

But thanks lol.

Here is an interesting read from the FAA on Mechanic fatigue

https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/med ... 20-115.pdf
 
NWAESC
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:10 pm

I don't think you're helping their cause, but maybe you're just here for the lolz. I dunno.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5217
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:12 pm

apodino wrote:
Something interesting was pointed out to me. According to most people I know, the mechanics who are the most angry would be the TWU guys, which are basically the LAA guys in places like DFW, ORD, and MIA. The IAM guys don't have nearly the urgency to get a deal done as they continue to enjoy superior medical plans, more holidays, vacations, and they still have a pension fund. However, if you read the briefs, the company is claiming that most of the actions are taking place in PHL, and CLT, which are two IAM cities on the LUS side.


Are you sure about continuing pension plans for IAM? PBGC docs show the US Pilots' plan got terminated in 2003, and the FA, IAM and 'certain employees' plans of US Airways got terminated in 2005.
 
NWAESC
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Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:17 pm

Pre-merger US ramp, stores, and mechanics are still in the IAM's NPF. Not sure about other groups.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Boof02671
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:28 pm

NWAESC wrote:
I don't think you're helping their cause, but maybe you're just here for the lolz. I dunno.

This judge is biased the Unions don’t expect a favorable ruling and will go to an appeal.

Answer me this why hasn’t the company attempted to discipline one mechanic?

Why hasn’t the company invoked mandatory OT at the LAA stations?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:31 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
apodino wrote:
Something interesting was pointed out to me. According to most people I know, the mechanics who are the most angry would be the TWU guys, which are basically the LAA guys in places like DFW, ORD, and MIA. The IAM guys don't have nearly the urgency to get a deal done as they continue to enjoy superior medical plans, more holidays, vacations, and they still have a pension fund. However, if you read the briefs, the company is claiming that most of the actions are taking place in PHL, and CLT, which are two IAM cities on the LUS side.


Are you sure about continuing pension plans for IAM? PBGC docs show the US Pilots' plan got terminated in 2003, and the FA, IAM and 'certain employees' plans of US Airways got terminated in 2005.

Our US Airways DBP was terminated in 2005.

All IAM Members are in the IAMNPF, Maintenance went in in 2008 and I believe the ramp went in 99 or 2002.

So maintenance and Fleet both have a DBP which is multi-employer plan.

https://www.iamnpf.org/
 
NWAESC
Posts: 928
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:34 pm

Your posts are a goldmine for the company. Isom owes you a fruit basket.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:14 pm

NWAESC wrote:
Your posts are a goldmine for the company. Isom owes you a fruit basket.

That’s laughable.

Where did you get your Juris Doctorate?

An alias on a message board is hearsay, the company hasn’t subpoenaed any of the IP address nor mentioned anyone’s real name in their motions of any current mechanic

Boy Delta sure had assimilated you.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1661
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:34 pm

The problem is now not just on the MX side of the house. I'm hearing lots of issues from friends across the system with ramp crew chiefs refusing to work flights and refusing to abide by the "Helping Hands" agreement. You have IAM crew chiefs refusing to work TWU gates/aircraft and vice versa. That is causing headaches for passengers and the operation as a whole during a time where people just need to do their job and get everyone from point A to point B in a timely and safe manner.

NWAESC wrote:
Your posts are a goldmine for the company. Isom owes you a fruit basket.


As has been established through multiple threads, he isn't even represented by the Association.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
N983AN
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:42 pm

dfw88 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
#5 is incorrect. He is not the President of the IAM, that would be Robert Martinez, Sito is General Vice President of Transportation. Him being on the UA BOD is irrelevant.


So, you're right that he's actually the General Vice President of Transportation, but I don't know how you can call that irrelevant. Having someone who is negotiating with AA also sit on the UA BOD seems very relevant to me.


The IAM can nominate whomever they wish to delegate for their class of shares but I believe past practice has been for retired union reps including Randy Canale, John Peterpaul and Rich Delaney. Why the IAM changed course and didn’t nominate someone like Robert Roach (also TWA) who likely would have eagerly jumped on the opportunity we won’t know.

Also Sito is a TWA guy but his career has largely been with the IAM not working the line. Why not let a long time retired UA employee have this opportunity and not someone from TWA who has many other demands of his time (as the IAM would like their members to believe)?

If they’re going to have someone active why not have Mike Klemm who is PDGC of DL 141 and a UA employee.
 
texl1649
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:20 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
As a Dallas resident who flies 'a lot' I just want to chime in that I despise this union, viscerally. The work slowdown is obvious and I've experienced it myself; I hope AA wins the legal battles and figures out how to limit such damages in the future. These people seem like scum to me for making folks sit on planes for hours/cancel flights because they didn't get the offer they wanted.


Passengers who pay pennies on the dollar to fly and them complain about it seem like scum to me.

Ride another airline, delta and UA are available.


Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Flying on business but delayed because maintenance refuses for 3 hours to inspect the baggage cart impact isn't "scum" to me, it's the, ahem, individuals running and working within this union who are questionable.

What right thinking person would willingly subject themselves to this treatment? Would 1st passengers do so? No, I saw several deplane in frustration most recently. The unions overall are absolutely out of control in the US4, and in particular @ AA.

Your posts (yes, multiple posts, not just this one) are emblematic of the vituperation toward the fliers, coworkers, and companies alike, which they have grown to embody. I despise that attitude. Have a nice day.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1649
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:44 pm

apodino wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
apodino wrote:
Rumor has it the Union and the Company are going back to the bargaining table next week. A lot of people think a TA could come out of this because of the hammer the judge has laid down on the union. The question is, would the membership ratify an agreement? They may not be in the mood to if the contract doesn't deliver. Then the union and the company are both in very tough spots.

Also of note, the union is threatening to fine its own members if they don't comply with the judges order? Good luck in keeping the membership in line the first time you try to pull that one.

Well, the union members have decided to be represented collectively by said union; so, if said union is telling the members to stop screwing around, the members better listen.
If not, what's the point of being represented by a union? Things work both ways.

No they didn't. The Association was imposed on the members at the time of the merger. No current union member got to vote on representation. That's why many employees keep trying card drives to oust the Association, which get quashed because of legal maneuvering and lies being told by current Union Leadership, again which was not elected democratically either.

The AA dispatchers were also part of the TWU at the time of the merger, and the TWU tried the same tactics to keep card drives out. The first attempt, they got the NMB to sign off on a claim that cards for a replacement organization were tainted, and also resulted in the international taking over the local and using the locals own dues money to sue its own elected leadership. Two years later cards were signed again, and the TWU tried to claim that there was a risk of no representation by lying about the voting procedures and also claiming the new union would not be able to raise enough money to function. In the end it was futile as the dispatchers overwhelmingly voted out the TWU and voted in PAFCA.


When I was IAM at NWA as a mechanic they pulled the same thing when we tried to go AMFA. They had former IAM members who were on the NMB board talk about conflict of interest. Every time the IAM would try to add people who were not part of the class and craft or they would say the vote was tainted if it didn't go their way in fact AMFA being certified took over a year after we voted them in because the IAM filed a protest and the NMB sat on it. One thing good about the dispatch group is they are far smaller than our group it's easier to ferret out the BS..
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1869
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:10 pm

texl1649 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
As a Dallas resident who flies 'a lot' I just want to chime in that I despise this union, viscerally. The work slowdown is obvious and I've experienced it myself; I hope AA wins the legal battles and figures out how to limit such damages in the future. These people seem like scum to me for making folks sit on planes for hours/cancel flights because they didn't get the offer they wanted.


Passengers who pay pennies on the dollar to fly and them complain about it seem like scum to me.

Ride another airline, delta and UA are available.


Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Flying on business but delayed because maintenance refuses for 3 hours to inspect the baggage cart impact isn't "scum" to me, it's the, ahem, individuals running and working within this union who are questionable.

What right thinking person would willingly subject themselves to this treatment? Would 1st passengers do so? No, I saw several deplane in frustration most recently. The unions overall are absolutely out of control in the US4, and in particular @ AA.

Your posts (yes, multiple posts, not just this one) are emblematic of the vituperation toward the fliers, coworkers, and companies alike, which they have grown to embody. I despise that attitude. Have a nice day.


I hope you fly delta in the future.

Good luck
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:25 am

alasizon wrote:
The problem is now not just on the MX side of the house. I'm hearing lots of issues from friends across the system with ramp crew chiefs refusing to work flights and refusing to abide by the "Helping Hands" agreement. You have IAM crew chiefs refusing to work TWU gates/aircraft and vice versa. That is causing headaches for passengers and the operation as a whole during a time where people just need to do their job and get everyone from point A to point B in a timely and safe manner.

NWAESC wrote:
Your posts are a goldmine for the company. Isom owes you a fruit basket.


As has been established through multiple threads, he isn't even represented by the Association.

Not true, there is no helping hands agreement.

In the interim wage agreement the company has the right to crossutilize, if the company exercises that right the whole station gets a no layoff protection.

If a lead or crew chief refuses, and regular fleet they would be terminated instantly for insubordination.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:27 am

N983AN wrote:
dfw88 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
#5 is incorrect. He is not the President of the IAM, that would be Robert Martinez, Sito is General Vice President of Transportation. Him being on the UA BOD is irrelevant.


So, you're right that he's actually the General Vice President of Transportation, but I don't know how you can call that irrelevant. Having someone who is negotiating with AA also sit on the UA BOD seems very relevant to me.


The IAM can nominate whomever they wish to delegate for their class of shares but I believe past practice has been for retired union reps including Randy Canale, John Peterpaul and Rich Delaney. Why the IAM changed course and didn’t nominate someone like Robert Roach (also TWA) who likely would have eagerly jumped on the opportunity we won’t know.

Also Sito is a TWA guy but his career has largely been with the IAM not working the line. Why not let a long time retired UA employee have this opportunity and not someone from TWA who has many other demands of his time (as the IAM would like their members to believe)?

If they’re going to have someone active why not have Mike Klemm who is PDGC of DL 141 and a UA employee.

Mike Klemm can’t he is the PDGC of 141, and is in charge of UA negotiations and enforcement of the CBA, it would be a conflict of interest.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:29 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

Ah, so this judge is now grossly violating laws?

This is like flat earth debates.

Refute each point.

The Judge didn't force the union to fine its members; he/she told them to get them in line.
The Judge didn't order the AMTs to violate the FARs; he/she told them to stop BSing.
The Judge didn't force the AMTs to work OT or take field trips; he/she told them to stop BSing and apply what was agreed upon when they accepted the position.

Wrong the judge ordered certain target percentages to obtained. Read their filings.
 
DC10LAXJFK
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:46 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:43 am

Varsity1 wrote:
texl1649 wrote:
As a Dallas resident who flies 'a lot' I just want to chime in that I despise this union, viscerally. The work slowdown is obvious and I've experienced it myself; I hope AA wins the legal battles and figures out how to limit such damages in the future. These people seem like scum to me for making folks sit on planes for hours/cancel flights because they didn't get the offer they wanted.


Passengers who pay pennies on the dollar to fly and them complain about it seem like scum to me.

Ride another airline, delta and UA are available.


Well, this "scum" just decided not to take a paid trip in F on AA due to not wanting to risk delays/cancellations. (I already lived through the pilot slowdown in Sept. 2012.)

Instead, this scum has just purchased a paid F trip on DL.

Are you sure that's really what you want?
 
Antarius
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:44 am

Boof02671 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Refute each point.

The Judge didn't force the union to fine its members; he/she told them to get them in line.
The Judge didn't order the AMTs to violate the FARs; he/she told them to stop BSing.
The Judge didn't force the AMTs to work OT or take field trips; he/she told them to stop BSing and apply what was agreed upon when they accepted the position.

Wrong the judge ordered certain target percentages to obtained. Read their filings.


If you're such a lawyer, why not actually go win the case for IAM-TWU?

You're splitting hairs that are materially meaningless to the ruling.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Antarius
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:47 am

Boof02671 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Refute each point.

The Judge didn't force the union to fine its members; he/she told them to get them in line.
The Judge didn't order the AMTs to violate the FARs; he/she told them to stop BSing.
The Judge didn't force the AMTs to work OT or take field trips; he/she told them to stop BSing and apply what was agreed upon when they accepted the position.

Wrong the judge ordered certain target percentages to obtained. Read their filings.


If you're such a lawyer, why not actually go win the case for IAM-TWU?

You're splitting hairs that are materially meaningless to the ruling.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:51 am

Why don’t you stick to facts.

Association letter to the FAA and a copy of the modified TRO where the judge ordered targets to be met for fleet launch.

https://iam141.org/association-update-4/
 
Antarius
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:01 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Why don’t you stick to facts.

Association letter to the FAA and a copy of the modified TRO where the judge ordered targets to be met for fleet launch.

https://iam141.org/association-update-4/


No part affects the core premise that the judge sided with AA and against the union.

Tell me, why would a judge have to order certain targets to be met? For fun?

Slice, dice, share propaganda all you want, it still shows you are now 0-fer 100 on your statements and predictions.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1476
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA lawsuit against TWU/IAM (redux)

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:11 am

Antarius wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Why don’t you stick to facts.

Association letter to the FAA and a copy of the modified TRO where the judge ordered targets to be met for fleet launch.

https://iam141.org/association-update-4/


No part affects the core premise that the judge sided with AA and against the union.

Tell me, why would a judge have to order certain targets to be met? For fun?

Slice, dice, share propaganda all you want, it still shows you are now 0-fer 100 on your statements and predictions.

Wow what a surprise a right wing conservative judge who ruled in favor of the company.

And you still haven’t answered how a judge can force someone to work overtime or take field trips when the CBAs says the mechanics don’t have to?

Also how can a judge order a mechanic to sign off an aircraft that’s not airworthy?

You are anti union so you call it propaganda, it’s not it’s facts. Read the letters and motions.

Refute with facts not you incorrect opinion.
Last edited by Boof02671 on Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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