Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Boof02671 wrote:#5 is incorrect. He is not the President of the IAM, that would be Robert Martinez, Sito is General Vice President of Transportation. Him being on the UA BOD is irrelevant.
dfw88 wrote:Boof02671 wrote:#5 is incorrect. He is not the President of the IAM, that would be Robert Martinez, Sito is General Vice President of Transportation. Him being on the UA BOD is irrelevant.
So, you're right that he's actually the General Vice President of Transportation, but I don't know how you can call that irrelevant. Having someone who is negotiating with AA also sit on the UA BOD seems very relevant to me.
apodino wrote:dfw88 wrote:Boof02671 wrote:#5 is incorrect. He is not the President of the IAM, that would be Robert Martinez, Sito is General Vice President of Transportation. Him being on the UA BOD is irrelevant.
So, you're right that he's actually the General Vice President of Transportation, but I don't know how you can call that irrelevant. Having someone who is negotiating with AA also sit on the UA BOD seems very relevant to me.
I did get Sito's title wrong but he is the lead negotiator for the IAM side. Him sitting on the UA BOD is not irrelevant, and if you cant see the conflict of interest here you are blind.
Boof02671 wrote:apodino wrote:dfw88 wrote:
So, you're right that he's actually the General Vice President of Transportation, but I don't know how you can call that irrelevant. Having someone who is negotiating with AA also sit on the UA BOD seems very relevant to me.
I did get Sito's title wrong but he is the lead negotiator for the IAM side. Him sitting on the UA BOD is not irrelevant, and if you cant see the conflict of interest here you are blind.
You do realize unions for 20 years have had BOD members at US before and UA and others
Sito being on UA’s board is legal under the law and SEC regulations. Mike Klemm is the lead negotiator at UA.
ALPA and IAM have board representation at UA.
usairways787 wrote:I'll chime in,
While AA is indeed suing the TWU/IAM, what they're not able to do is prove that there is indeed a slowdown. Why? Because there truly isn't one. Everyday I see the decisions being made that are causing problems that weren't problems until this last year. In DFW alone, on the fleet side, over 65,000 bags miss connected, and had to be put on other flights, or sent to the passengers house, oh this was also just for the month of June. This is also the first month that they've rolled out their new system, that we explained and tried to tell them why it wouldn't work. They didn't listen. The month and years prior it was a steady and consistent at 15,000 miss connects a month, including with IROP situations. Their excuse for this monstrosity? Weather. Not incompetence, weather.
Last year, 55 LAA managers were fired in a month alone. Why? Because they were being replaced with LUS people. Sure, I get it, merger comes with it's downsides, but the grumblings and things of this nature makes it seem very personal towards us as LUS is coming in and raiding their way through the nest. I get it, things change with mergers, but in my opinion they should be changing for the benefit of the company, employees, and passengers. Neither of this has happened, and it's only getting worse. The insurance we've asked for all 30,000 employees to be on costs the company $39 million. The top three executives have more in stock and bonuses/compensation for the year. Think about that for a minute. 30,000 employees and their families could have better healthcare, and quality of life, but instead the top THREE and their families are more important. The starting rate for an LAA fleet service clerk is $14.18 an hour, not bad if I may say so, but lets say that newly hired clerk has a family, well his monthly insurance costs for his wife and kids with him included is $600. Working for insurance that rate, what's LUS? $150-$200, and better coverage. Starting to see?
In conclusion, the hostility is only growing, they're demanding concessions that demand head count cuts, while refusing to grow head count in areas that are desperately needed. We're bursting at the seams in Dallas, planes are sometimes waiting 30+ minutes for a gate on clear blue sky days. The head counts are so low, that the newly opened B terminal gates were shut down for the day due to staffing and was labeled as "growing pains". I should also mention that the now head guy in Dallas calling the shots replaced a previous LAA manager that refused to bring these changes because he knew they wouldn't work, so he was shown the door. What you're truly seeing is a management structure that's so dysfunctional, incompetent and bloated that rather than sitting down and actually willfully wanting to do the right things, and make the right decisions that they'd just rather point the finger and bully their way around. It isn't gonna work, and they're realizing that now. Until the top changes, the bottom is gonna stay right where it is.
Slow down my ass.
usairways787 wrote:I'll chime in,
While AA is indeed suing the TWU/IAM, what they're not able to do is prove that there is indeed a slowdown. Why? Because there truly isn't one. Everyday I see the decisions being made that are causing problems that weren't problems until this last year. In DFW alone, on the fleet side, over 65,000 bags miss connected, and had to be put on other flights, or sent to the passengers house, oh this was also just for the month of June. This is also the first month that they've rolled out their new system, that we explained and tried to tell them why it wouldn't work. They didn't listen. The month and years prior it was a steady and consistent at 15,000 miss connects a month, including with IROP situations. Their excuse for this monstrosity? Weather. Not incompetence, weather.
Last year, 55 LAA managers were fired in a month alone. Why? Because they were being replaced with LUS people. Sure, I get it, merger comes with it's downsides, but the grumblings and things of this nature makes it seem very personal towards us as LUS is coming in and raiding their way through the nest. I get it, things change with mergers, but in my opinion they should be changing for the benefit of the company, employees, and passengers. Neither of this has happened, and it's only getting worse. The insurance we've asked for all 30,000 employees to be on costs the company $39 million. The top three executives have more in stock and bonuses/compensation for the year. Think about that for a minute. 30,000 employees and their families could have better healthcare, and quality of life, but instead the top THREE and their families are more important. The starting rate for an LAA fleet service clerk is $14.18 an hour, not bad if I may say so, but lets say that newly hired clerk has a family, well his monthly insurance costs for his wife and kids with him included is $600. Working for insurance that rate, what's LUS? $150-$200, and better coverage. Starting to see?
In conclusion, the hostility is only growing, they're demanding concessions that demand head count cuts, while refusing to grow head count in areas that are desperately needed. We're bursting at the seams in Dallas, planes are sometimes waiting 30+ minutes for a gate on clear blue sky days. The head counts are so low, that the newly opened B terminal gates were shut down for the day due to staffing and was labeled as "growing pains". I should also mention that the now head guy in Dallas calling the shots replaced a previous LAA manager that refused to bring these changes because he knew they wouldn't work, so he was shown the door. What you're truly seeing is a management structure that's so dysfunctional, incompetent and bloated that rather than sitting down and actually willfully wanting to do the right things, and make the right decisions that they'd just rather point the finger and bully their way around. It isn't gonna work, and they're realizing that now. Until the top changes, the bottom is gonna stay right where it is.
Slow down my ass.
Boof02671 wrote:FAA getting involved.
Copy of a letter from the FAA to management and unions
https://iam141.org/association-update-3/
usairways787 wrote:The insurance we've asked for all 30,000 employees to be on costs the company $39 million. The top three executives have more in stock and bonuses/compensation for the year. Think about that for a minute. 30,000 employees and their families could have better healthcare, and quality of life, but instead the top THREE and their families are more important. The starting rate for an LAA fleet service clerk is $14.18 an hour, not bad if I may say so, but lets say that newly hired clerk has a family, well his monthly insurance costs for his wife and kids with him included is $600. Working for insurance that rate, what's LUS? $150-$200, and better coverage. Starting to see?
MSPNWA wrote:Boof02671 wrote:FAA getting involved.
Copy of a letter from the FAA to management and unions
https://iam141.org/association-update-3/
Uh, no. That's a letter saying the FAA is not involved. It's a friendly reminder of something both parties can agree on.usairways787 wrote:The insurance we've asked for all 30,000 employees to be on costs the company $39 million. The top three executives have more in stock and bonuses/compensation for the year. Think about that for a minute. 30,000 employees and their families could have better healthcare, and quality of life, but instead the top THREE and their families are more important. The starting rate for an LAA fleet service clerk is $14.18 an hour, not bad if I may say so, but lets say that newly hired clerk has a family, well his monthly insurance costs for his wife and kids with him included is $600. Working for insurance that rate, what's LUS? $150-$200, and better coverage. Starting to see?
Welcome to the 21st century. I've been in that situation. Life isn't "fair". Don't like working somewhere? Quit!
The unions have already admitted there's a slowdown (they're just not admitting to an illegal one).
No offense, but this is the attitude that will bring down AA and will hurt the lower rung first. AA is a bloated company on the cost side. They will never have an industry-leading financial situation with its current cost structure. I don't know all the details of why AA is lagging so badly in costs, but it's highly likely from what I see that one of the largest reasons is that they employee too many people and pay them too much (when measured against its peers). The bottom needs to understand the situation. Management will lose their jobs if they agree to the union's wishes, retain a high cost structure, and subsequently underperform the industry. They have no choice for their future. They either improve the cost structure of AA, or they lose their jobs anyway. The bottom tier may get their wish someday of a management turnover, but it will only occur after their ranks have been properly decimated.
You know what would be best for the bottom? Show up, do your job well, quit biting the hands that feed you (customers), and collectively help improve AA's financial situation. If this occurs, management has less need to make involuntary cuts. More jobs are retained/created at a higher pay, and AA can move forward. But I don't see that happening, and the bottom is going to pay dearly when this is all over. It's going to ugly for them and the rest of AA if they continue down the road they're driving.
MSPNWA wrote:Boof02671 wrote:FAA getting involved.
Copy of a letter from the FAA to management and unions
https://iam141.org/association-update-3/
Uh, no. That's a letter saying the FAA is not involved. It's a friendly reminder of something both parties can agree on.usairways787 wrote:The insurance we've asked for all 30,000 employees to be on costs the company $39 million. The top three executives have more in stock and bonuses/compensation for the year. Think about that for a minute. 30,000 employees and their families could have better healthcare, and quality of life, but instead the top THREE and their families are more important. The starting rate for an LAA fleet service clerk is $14.18 an hour, not bad if I may say so, but lets say that newly hired clerk has a family, well his monthly insurance costs for his wife and kids with him included is $600. Working for insurance that rate, what's LUS? $150-$200, and better coverage. Starting to see?
Welcome to the 21st century. I've been in that situation. Life isn't "fair". Don't like working somewhere? Quit!
The unions have already admitted there's a slowdown (they're just not admitting to an illegal one).
No offense, but this is the attitude that will bring down AA and will hurt the lower rung first. AA is a bloated company on the cost side. They will never have an industry-leading financial situation with its current cost structure. I don't know all the details of why AA is lagging so badly in costs, but it's highly likely from what I see that one of the largest reasons is that they employee too many people and pay them too much (when measured against its peers). The bottom needs to understand the situation. Management will lose their jobs if they agree to the union's wishes, retain a high cost structure, and subsequently underperform the industry. They have no choice for their future. They either improve the cost structure of AA, or they lose their jobs anyway. The bottom tier may get their wish someday of a management turnover, but it will only occur after their ranks have been properly decimated.
You know what would be best for the bottom? Show up, do your job well, quit biting the hands that feed you (customers), and collectively help improve AA's financial situation. If this occurs, management has less need to make involuntary cuts. More jobs are retained/created at a higher pay, and AA can move forward. But I don't see that happening, and the bottom is going to pay dearly when this is all over. It's going to ugly for them and the rest of AA if they continue down the road they're driving.
usairways787 wrote:I'll chime in,
While AA is indeed suing the TWU/IAM, what they're not able to do is prove that there is indeed a slowdown. Why? Because there truly isn't one.
MSPNWA wrote:Boof02671 wrote:FAA getting involved.
Copy of a letter from the FAA to management and unions
https://iam141.org/association-update-3/
Uh, no. That's a letter saying the FAA is not involved. It's a friendly reminder of something both parties can agree on.usairways787 wrote:The insurance we've asked for all 30,000 employees to be on costs the company $39 million. The top three executives have more in stock and bonuses/compensation for the year. Think about that for a minute. 30,000 employees and their families could have better healthcare, and quality of life, but instead the top THREE and their families are more important. The starting rate for an LAA fleet service clerk is $14.18 an hour, not bad if I may say so, but lets say that newly hired clerk has a family, well his monthly insurance costs for his wife and kids with him included is $600. Working for insurance that rate, what's LUS? $150-$200, and better coverage. Starting to see?
Welcome to the 21st century. I've been in that situation. Life isn't "fair". Don't like working somewhere? Quit!
The unions have already admitted there's a slowdown (they're just not admitting to an illegal one).
No offense, but this is the attitude that will bring down AA and will hurt the lower rung first. AA is a bloated company on the cost side. They will never have an industry-leading financial situation with its current cost structure. I don't know all the details of why AA is lagging so badly in costs, but it's highly likely from what I see that one of the largest reasons is that they employee too many people and pay them too much (when measured against its peers). The bottom needs to understand the situation. Management will lose their jobs if they agree to the union's wishes, retain a high cost structure, and subsequently underperform the industry. They have no choice for their future. They either improve the cost structure of AA, or they lose their jobs anyway. The bottom tier may get their wish someday of a management turnover, but it will only occur after their ranks have been properly decimated.
You know what would be best for the bottom? Show up, do your job well, quit biting the hands that feed you (customers), and collectively help improve AA's financial situation. If this occurs, management has less need to make involuntary cuts. More jobs are retained/created at a higher pay, and AA can move forward. But I don't see that happening, and the bottom is going to pay dearly when this is all over. It's going to ugly for them and the rest of AA if they continue down the road they're driving.
Antarius wrote:usairways787 wrote:I'll chime in,
While AA is indeed suing the TWU/IAM, what they're not able to do is prove that there is indeed a slowdown. Why? Because there truly isn't one.
Courts dont issue TROs for obviously non-existent issues. Also, IAM-TWU admitted that things are slow - they came up with a positively ludicrous reason (one that reads like the dog eating homework), but did admit things arent running quick.
I'm not arguing management isnt blameless. The whole board, Parker etc. Likely need replacement. But so does IAM-TWU and their rubbish.
Time to clean house. DL has shown that with good leadership and no IAM-TWU cabal, you can mint money.
usairways787 wrote:I'll chime in,
While AA is indeed suing the TWU/IAM, what they're not able to do is prove that there is indeed a slowdown. Why? Because there truly isn't one. Everyday I see the decisions being made that are causing problems that weren't problems until this last year. In DFW alone, on the fleet side, over 65,000 bags miss connected, and had to be put on other flights, or sent to the passengers house, oh this was also just for the month of June. This is also the first month that they've rolled out their new system, that we explained and tried to tell them why it wouldn't work. They didn't listen. The month and years prior it was a steady and consistent at 15,000 miss connects a month, including with IROP situations. Their excuse for this monstrosity? Weather. Not incompetence, weather.
Last year, 55 LAA managers were fired in a month alone. Why? Because they were being replaced with LUS people. Sure, I get it, merger comes with it's downsides, but the grumblings and things of this nature makes it seem very personal towards us as LUS is coming in and raiding their way through the nest. I get it, things change with mergers, but in my opinion they should be changing for the benefit of the company, employees, and passengers. Neither of this has happened, and it's only getting worse. The insurance we've asked for all 30,000 employees to be on costs the company $39 million. The top three executives have more in stock and bonuses/compensation for the year. Think about that for a minute. 30,000 employees and their families could have better healthcare, and quality of life, but instead the top THREE and their families are more important. The starting rate for an LAA fleet service clerk is $14.18 an hour, not bad if I may say so, but lets say that newly hired clerk has a family, well his monthly insurance costs for his wife and kids with him included is $600. Working for insurance that rate, what's LUS? $150-$200, and better coverage. Starting to see?
In conclusion, the hostility is only growing, they're demanding concessions that demand head count cuts, while refusing to grow head count in areas that are desperately needed. We're bursting at the seams in Dallas, planes are sometimes waiting 30+ minutes for a gate on clear blue sky days. The head counts are so low, that the newly opened B terminal gates were shut down for the day due to staffing and was labeled as "growing pains". I should also mention that the now head guy in Dallas calling the shots replaced a previous LAA manager that refused to bring these changes because he knew they wouldn't work, so he was shown the door. What you're truly seeing is a management structure that's so dysfunctional, incompetent and bloated that rather than sitting down and actually willfully wanting to do the right things, and make the right decisions that they'd just rather point the finger and bully their way around. It isn't gonna work, and they're realizing that now. Until the top changes, the bottom is gonna stay right where it is.
Slow down my ass.
Boof02671 wrote:Antarius wrote:usairways787 wrote:I'll chime in,
While AA is indeed suing the TWU/IAM, what they're not able to do is prove that there is indeed a slowdown. Why? Because there truly isn't one.
Courts dont issue TROs for obviously non-existent issues. Also, IAM-TWU admitted that things are slow - they came up with a positively ludicrous reason (one that reads like the dog eating homework), but did admit things arent running quick.
I'm not arguing management isnt blameless. The whole board, Parker etc. Likely need replacement. But so does IAM-TWU and their rubbish.
Time to clean house. DL has shown that with good leadership and no IAM-TWU cabal, you can mint money.
And AA has even stated they are flying more flights with less planes which increases wear and tear and leaves less time for maintenance, that’s in the court filings.
Antarius wrote:Boof02671 wrote:Antarius wrote:
Courts dont issue TROs for obviously non-existent issues. Also, IAM-TWU admitted that things are slow - they came up with a positively ludicrous reason (one that reads like the dog eating homework), but did admit things arent running quick.
I'm not arguing management isnt blameless. The whole board, Parker etc. Likely need replacement. But so does IAM-TWU and their rubbish.
Time to clean house. DL has shown that with good leadership and no IAM-TWU cabal, you can mint money.
And AA has even stated they are flying more flights with less planes which increases wear and tear and leaves less time for maintenance, that’s in the court filings.
And yet, there was still a TRO.
So acting like there is no basis whatsoever for this is wishful thinking.
Boof02671 wrote:Antarius wrote:Boof02671 wrote:And AA has even stated they are flying more flights with less planes which increases wear and tear and leaves less time for maintenance, that’s in the court filings.
And yet, there was still a TRO.
So acting like there is no basis whatsoever for this is wishful thinking.
You do realize the TRO was issues exparte?
The unions were not given a chance to defend themselves, it was issued without a hearing.
Antarius wrote:Boof02671 wrote:Antarius wrote:
And yet, there was still a TRO.
So acting like there is no basis whatsoever for this is wishful thinking.
You do realize the TRO was issues exparte?
The unions were not given a chance to defend themselves, it was issued without a hearing.
You keep repeating this like it is relevant.
Read points 2 and 3 in the court order.
Varsity1 wrote:usairways787 wrote:I'll chime in,
While AA is indeed suing the TWU/IAM, what they're not able to do is prove that there is indeed a slowdown. Why? Because there truly isn't one. Everyday I see the decisions being made that are causing problems that weren't problems until this last year. In DFW alone, on the fleet side, over 65,000 bags miss connected, and had to be put on other flights, or sent to the passengers house, oh this was also just for the month of June. This is also the first month that they've rolled out their new system, that we explained and tried to tell them why it wouldn't work. They didn't listen. The month and years prior it was a steady and consistent at 15,000 miss connects a month, including with IROP situations. Their excuse for this monstrosity? Weather. Not incompetence, weather.
Last year, 55 LAA managers were fired in a month alone. Why? Because they were being replaced with LUS people. Sure, I get it, merger comes with it's downsides, but the grumblings and things of this nature makes it seem very personal towards us as LUS is coming in and raiding their way through the nest. I get it, things change with mergers, but in my opinion they should be changing for the benefit of the company, employees, and passengers. Neither of this has happened, and it's only getting worse. The insurance we've asked for all 30,000 employees to be on costs the company $39 million. The top three executives have more in stock and bonuses/compensation for the year. Think about that for a minute. 30,000 employees and their families could have better healthcare, and quality of life, but instead the top THREE and their families are more important. The starting rate for an LAA fleet service clerk is $14.18 an hour, not bad if I may say so, but lets say that newly hired clerk has a family, well his monthly insurance costs for his wife and kids with him included is $600. Working for insurance that rate, what's LUS? $150-$200, and better coverage. Starting to see?
In conclusion, the hostility is only growing, they're demanding concessions that demand head count cuts, while refusing to grow head count in areas that are desperately needed. We're bursting at the seams in Dallas, planes are sometimes waiting 30+ minutes for a gate on clear blue sky days. The head counts are so low, that the newly opened B terminal gates were shut down for the day due to staffing and was labeled as "growing pains". I should also mention that the now head guy in Dallas calling the shots replaced a previous LAA manager that refused to bring these changes because he knew they wouldn't work, so he was shown the door. What you're truly seeing is a management structure that's so dysfunctional, incompetent and bloated that rather than sitting down and actually willfully wanting to do the right things, and make the right decisions that they'd just rather point the finger and bully their way around. It isn't gonna work, and they're realizing that now. Until the top changes, the bottom is gonna stay right where it is.
Slow down my ass.
apodino wrote:Antarius wrote:Boof02671 wrote:You do realize the TRO was issues exparte?
The unions were not given a chance to defend themselves, it was issued without a hearing.
You keep repeating this like it is relevant.
Read points 2 and 3 in the court order.
Here is the other issue though. The court can order the union all they want to. The problem is right now a good majority of the membership is as upset at the Union as they are the company. The union has no influence on these people, who are going to keep doing what they have been doing to get us to this point. The union throwing them under the bus in court wont help matters.
b377 wrote:The underlying problem of this issue is that the two unions, TWU and IAM can't get to an agreement about how they should successfully merge, thereby penalizing their members and not allowing a vote. period. It is necessary for them to agree, send the best contract to the membership for a vote, and in my opinion get this behind them
b377 wrote:Fair enough. I expressed an opinion, which won't go far on this site.
To be clear, AA management has offered to match every contract approved by UA WN and DL employees and yet as I understand have never been sent down to the work and file for approval. What's the problem? Let the workers decide the outcome
Antarius wrote:apodino wrote:Antarius wrote:
You keep repeating this like it is relevant.
Read points 2 and 3 in the court order.
Here is the other issue though. The court can order the union all they want to. The problem is right now a good majority of the membership is as upset at the Union as they are the company. The union has no influence on these people, who are going to keep doing what they have been doing to get us to this point. The union throwing them under the bus in court wont help matters.
Fair point. The question is, if the union is causing consternation for AA and the members, what value are they adding?
Seems like an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy. As in, if the members feel IAM-TWU is not representing them or their needs, keeping them around to seemingly antagonize the situation while not providing results is counterproductive.
apodino wrote:I know the first thread on this got off topic so I wanted to rekindle this discussion.
Boof02671 wrote:...Him being on the UA BOD is irrelevant.
Boof02671 wrote:First of all DL is non-union and has no contract...
NWAESC wrote:Boof02671 wrote:First of all DL is non-union and has no contract...
Irrelevant.
It's not hard for AA to see what sort of pay/benefits DL currently have.
Varsity1 wrote:Managers need to manage. At some point you can't blame any more on the labor, all they do is work.
The other airlines in the USA are doing great, literally every single one. AA needs to clean house at the top and get a competent C suite. This is the second weak merger by Doug and Co.
Boof02671 wrote:NWAESC wrote:Boof02671 wrote:First of all DL is non-union and has no contract...
Irrelevant.
It's not hard for AA to see what sort of pay/benefits DL currently have.
What about Scope, Grievance Procedure OT etc?
It’s very relevant, DL mechanics have zero job protections.
Do you know DL outsources most of their heavy maintenance, interior mods etc?
DL mechanics work more heavy maintenance on other airlines’ planes than their own?
Boof02671 wrote:What about Scope, Grievance Procedure OT etc?
It’s very relevant, DL mechanics have zero job protections.
Do you know DL outsources most of their heavy maintenance, interior mods etc?
DL mechanics work more heavy maintenance on other airlines’ planes than their own?
WayexTDI wrote:Ah, the good ol' "you ain't union, you ain't protected"...
You do understand that companies cannot fire someone just willy-nilly? You still need an "official" reason to let someone go.
NWAESC wrote:Meh. Less HMV work, but more component work. Line maintenance has also been growing at a great pace over the last few years, with several stations either opened, reopened, or expanded. How's that working out at AA? Any Class II stations open lately?
WayexTDI wrote:Ah, the good ol' "you ain't union, you ain't protected"...
You do understand that companies cannot fire someone just willy-nilly? You still need an "official" reason to let someone go.
MIflyer12 wrote:Varsity1 wrote:Managers need to manage. At some point you can't blame any more on the labor, all they do is work.
The other airlines in the USA are doing great, literally every single one. AA needs to clean house at the top and get a competent C suite. This is the second weak merger by Doug and Co.
There are work groups that just will not be managed. IMHO, you'd need to back to Wolf at US and Crandall at AA to find successful leadership. If AA workers aren't going to yield DL/WN/AS levels of per$ labor productivity then AA isn't going to make comparable margins. Investors have figured this out (see marketwatch.com), as shown by market capitalizations:
DL $38.9 Billion
WN $28.2 Billion
UA $23.5 Billion
AA $14.6 Billion
AS $7.8 Billion (with less than 1/4 of AA's revenue passenger miles last year)
WayexTDI wrote:Boof02671 wrote:NWAESC wrote:
Irrelevant.
It's not hard for AA to see what sort of pay/benefits DL currently have.
What about Scope, Grievance Procedure OT etc?
It’s very relevant, DL mechanics have zero job protections.
Do you know DL outsources most of their heavy maintenance, interior mods etc?
DL mechanics work more heavy maintenance on other airlines’ planes than their own?
Ah, the good ol' "you ain't union, you ain't protected"...
You do understand that companies cannot fire someone just willy-nilly? You still need an "official" reason to let someone go.
Also, you do understand that firing an employee cost the company money? They need to advertise the open position, interview candidates, hire and vet the candidate, then train the new employee on internal procedures, software, etc... Do you know how much this cost a company???
And DL mechanics working on others' planes than DL's is irrelevant; they have a job and fulfill this job as required. They need to start worrying when TechOps stops working on others' planes, and this is not what's happening now.
MSPNWA wrote:And what they have (which is less) can be taken away at any moment. Can we stop this childish pretending that unions don't offer the workers many advantages?
usairways787 wrote:In DFW alone, on the fleet side, over 65,000 bags miss connected, and had to be put on other flights, or sent to the passengers house, oh this was also just for the month of June. This is also the first month that they've rolled out their new system, that we explained and tried to tell them why it wouldn't work. They didn't listen. The month and years prior it was a steady and consistent at 15,000 miss connects a month, including with IROP situations. Their excuse for this monstrosity? Weather. Not incompetence, weather.
Boof02671 wrote:Last week at MCO AA needed a starter for the V2500 engine on an Airbus, well low and behold AA didn’t have one serviceable in stock. How can an airline that has V2500 equipped A320 family and not have one? Someone needs to be fired for this, and that’s a management function.
AA had to buy one from DL at MIA and have it an air taxi get it. That goes down as a maintenance delay, yet that’s not the mechanic’s fault.
AAtakeMeAway wrote:usairways787 wrote:In DFW alone, on the fleet side, over 65,000 bags miss connected, and had to be put on other flights, or sent to the passengers house, oh this was also just for the month of June. This is also the first month that they've rolled out their new system, that we explained and tried to tell them why it wouldn't work. They didn't listen. The month and years prior it was a steady and consistent at 15,000 miss connects a month, including with IROP situations. Their excuse for this monstrosity? Weather. Not incompetence, weather.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is this new system you're referring to? I'm just curious, as a passengerBoof02671 wrote:Last week at MCO AA needed a starter for the V2500 engine on an Airbus, well low and behold AA didn’t have one serviceable in stock. How can an airline that has V2500 equipped A320 family and not have one? Someone needs to be fired for this, and that’s a management function.
AA had to buy one from DL at MIA and have it an air taxi get it. That goes down as a maintenance delay, yet that’s not the mechanic’s fault.
Since MCO is an outstation, I'm assuming it's not too surprising they would not have this part. It is surprising that AA didn't have the part at their MIA hub though, right?
AAtakeMeAway wrote:usairways787 wrote:In DFW alone, on the fleet side, over 65,000 bags miss connected, and had to be put on other flights, or sent to the passengers house, oh this was also just for the month of June. This is also the first month that they've rolled out their new system, that we explained and tried to tell them why it wouldn't work. They didn't listen. The month and years prior it was a steady and consistent at 15,000 miss connects a month, including with IROP situations. Their excuse for this monstrosity? Weather. Not incompetence, weather.
Pardon my ignorance, but what is this new system you're referring to? I'm just curious, as a passengerBoof02671 wrote:Last week at MCO AA needed a starter for the V2500 engine on an Airbus, well low and behold AA didn’t have one serviceable in stock. How can an airline that has V2500 equipped A320 family and not have one? Someone needs to be fired for this, and that’s a management function.
AA had to buy one from DL at MIA and have it an air taxi get it. That goes down as a maintenance delay, yet that’s not the mechanic’s fault.
Since MCO is an outstation, I'm assuming it's not too surprising they would not have this part. It is surprising that AA didn't have the part at their MIA hub though, right?
MSPNWA wrote:WayexTDI wrote:Ah, the good ol' "you ain't union, you ain't protected"...
You do understand that companies cannot fire someone just willy-nilly? You still need an "official" reason to let someone go.
Well, they're not protected! Since you have "official" in quotes, you must know how much easier it is to find a reason.
The bottom line is that it's a big advantage for the company to not have a union to deal with. They will find a "reason".
Maverick623 wrote:WayexTDI wrote:Ah, the good ol' "you ain't union, you ain't protected"...
You do understand that companies cannot fire someone just willy-nilly? You still need an "official" reason to let someone go.
Patently false in the US, unless you live in Montana (the only state that is not "at-will").
It is completely legal (and happens everyday) to fire someone for no reason, or a bad reason.
Boof02671 wrote:WayexTDI wrote:Boof02671 wrote:What about Scope, Grievance Procedure OT etc?
It’s very relevant, DL mechanics have zero job protections.
Do you know DL outsources most of their heavy maintenance, interior mods etc?
DL mechanics work more heavy maintenance on other airlines’ planes than their own?
Ah, the good ol' "you ain't union, you ain't protected"...
You do understand that companies cannot fire someone just willy-nilly? You still need an "official" reason to let someone go.
Also, you do understand that firing an employee cost the company money? They need to advertise the open position, interview candidates, hire and vet the candidate, then train the new employee on internal procedures, software, etc... Do you know how much this cost a company???
And DL mechanics working on others' planes than DL's is irrelevant; they have a job and fulfill this job as required. They need to start worrying when TechOps stops working on others' planes, and this is not what's happening now.
If you are an employee at will you can be fired for any reason as long as the it’s not against the law.
You have zero knowledge about labor laws.
If an airline moves the work from Delta the mechanics have zero job protection.