dcajet
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Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:09 pm

Following the signing of the new Air Services Agreement between the US and Argentina, Norwegian Argentina SA has begun the application process for regular scheduled air services between the 2 countries. The new ASA allows for unlimited frequencies between the 2 markets.

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AVENSAB727
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:22 pm

JFK/ORD/IAH/LAX-EZE?
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dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:27 pm

FLL or MIA to EZE/COR/ROS/MDZ. That is the low hanging fruit. And doable with the A321XLR eventually. Not sure about the A321LR.
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MalevTU134
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:48 pm

dcajet wrote:
FLL or MIA to EZE/COR/ROS/MDZ. That is the low hanging fruit. And doable with the A321XLR eventually. Not sure about the A321LR.

And MCO...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:01 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
JFK/ORD/IAH/LAX-EZE?


Even carriers with hubs at LAX or ORD don't fly LAX-EZE or ORD-EZE. It's not like there's sufficient long-haul demand between every possible large airport pair worldwide.
 
Uaflyguy
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:09 pm

Not true. American now flies LAX-EZE.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:33 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
JFK/ORD/IAH/LAX-EZE?


Even carriers with hubs at LAX or ORD don't fly LAX-EZE or ORD-EZE. It's not like there's sufficient long-haul demand between every possible large airport pair worldwide.


United flew ORD-EZE at least for some time (See: http://www.departedflights.com/UA0700international.html for reference), I believe it was ended a few years into Argentina's economic recession at the time.

Anyways, to me that signals that there might be some traffic there nowadays, perhaps not enough for UA to fill their premium cabins, but perhaps enough for Norwegian to fill their less-premium layout.

'902
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:36 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
JFK/ORD/IAH/LAX-EZE?


Even carriers with hubs at LAX or ORD don't fly LAX-EZE or ORD-EZE. It's not like there's sufficient long-haul demand between every possible large airport pair worldwide.


American flies LAX-EZE, which is a very large local market. But yes, ORD-EZE is ridiculous, as is IAH-EZE. Can't fill those without feed on the U.S. end.

That said, I can't imagine anything other than MIA/FLL in the short term. Argentina market was booming but starting to slow down.
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dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:53 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
JFK/ORD/IAH/LAX-EZE?


Even carriers with hubs at LAX or ORD don't fly LAX-EZE or ORD-EZE. It's not like there's sufficient long-haul demand between every possible large airport pair worldwide.


United flew ORD-EZE at least for some time (See: http://www.departedflights.com/UA0700international.html for reference), I believe it was ended a few years into Argentina's economic recession at the time.

Anyways, to me that signals that there might be some traffic there nowadays, perhaps not enough for UA to fill their premium cabins, but perhaps enough for Norwegian to fill their less-premium layout.

'902



United flew ORD-EZE for many years in the 90s and early 2000s, AA tried it in the winter 2007-08. There is not enough O&D demand except for the exceptionally booming years that one sees in Argentina every couple of years: the infamous boom or bust cycle so prevalent there. As a connecting hub, ORD it's not well located geographically: too far north. ATL, IAH & DFW do the same job closer to Argentina. That is why United fills to the gills a 777 on the daily EZE-IAH with relatively little local demand and an EZE-ORD falters. Ditto for Delta and their A333 at ATL, AA and their 787/777 at DFW.
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LAXdude1023
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:56 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
JFK/ORD/IAH/LAX-EZE?


Even carriers with hubs at LAX or ORD don't fly LAX-EZE or ORD-EZE. It's not like there's sufficient long-haul demand between every possible large airport pair worldwide.


American flies LAX-EZE, which is a very large local market. But yes, ORD-EZE is ridiculous, as is IAH-EZE. Can't fill those without feed on the U.S. end.

That said, I can't imagine anything other than MIA/FLL in the short term. Argentina market was booming but starting to slow down.


IAH-EZE is not a small market and the fares are decent. That said, Norwegian would be a horrible fit for it. You wont find too many energy workers that would darken their doors.
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dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:07 pm

Norwegian already holds route authorities on the following US-Argentina city pairs:

Buenos Aires – Chicago.
Buenos Aires – Dallas.
Buenos Aires – Honolulu.
Buenos Aires – Los Ángeles.
Buenos Aires – New York.
Buenos Aires – Fort Lauderdale.
Buenos Aires - Orlando.
Buenos Aires – San Francisco.
Córdoba – Fort Lauderdale.
Mendoza – Miami.
Rosario – Fort Lauderdale.
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jfk777
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:39 pm

Who has more to worry about Aerolinias or AA if they start flights to Florida with 787's ? AR always has the backstop of the Argentine treasury to subsidize its loses.
 
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:52 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Who has more to worry about Aerolinias or AA if they start flights to Florida with 787's ? AR always has the backstop of the Argentine treasury to subsidize its loses.


Definitely not AA. AA's Latin America network is extremely profitable and they offer the best hard product on the MIA-EZE route. Your high fare travelers wont touch Norwegian.
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AlexBrewster03
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:03 pm

dcajet wrote:
Norwegian already holds route authorities on the following US-Argentina city pairs:

Buenos Aires – Chicago.
Buenos Aires – Dallas.
Buenos Aires – Honolulu.
Buenos Aires – Los Ángeles.
Buenos Aires – New York.
Buenos Aires – Fort Lauderdale.
Buenos Aires - Orlando.
Buenos Aires – San Francisco.
Córdoba – Fort Lauderdale.
Mendoza – Miami.
Rosario – Fort Lauderdale.

Woah, EZE-HNL? Is there any demand between the two places? That would certainly be an interesting route I think
 
DCA350
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:11 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Who has more to worry about Aerolinias or AA if they start flights to Florida with 787's ? AR always has the backstop of the Argentine treasury to subsidize its loses.


Definitely not AA. AA's Latin America network is extremely profitable and they offer the best hard product on the MIA-EZE route. Your high fare travelers wont touch Norwegian.



No doubt that AA is a Juggernaut to EZE from MIA and would certainly continue to dominate premium traffic. But that doesn't mean there isn't a large market for lower fares.. MIA to EZE is usually always in the $900 to $1k+ range in economy.. If Norwegian can do the route with fares around $500, they could easily fill a daily 787.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:19 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Who has more to worry about Aerolinias or AA if they start flights to Florida with 787's ? AR always has the backstop of the Argentine treasury to subsidize its loses.


Definitely not AA. AA's Latin America network is extremely profitable and they offer the best hard product on the MIA-EZE route. Your high fare travelers wont touch Norwegian.


AA is flying 777-200s with 37 business class and 237 economy seats. Those 237 economy seats will compete with Norwegian. The high density Norwegian 787s allow them to offer low economy fares. AA will certainly see an impact On the fares they get with an additional 300 economy seats added to the market. AA should be worried. Norwegian won’t touch the premium travelers, but they will impact economy class fares. AA charges around $1000-1200 round trip for advanced purchase economy. I’d suspect Norwegian to be 30% less than that given that MIA-EZE is a similar distance to FLL-Europe. AA will feel an impact.
Last edited by Weatherwatcher1 on Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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chepos
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Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:20 pm

Some of these routes are just silly, I really only see MIA coming to fruition for the time being. I don’t think AR, AA, DL, UA or anyone else is too worried about this venture at the moment.


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jfk777
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:16 am

chepos wrote:
Some of these routes are just silly, I really only see MIA coming to fruition for the time being. I don’t think AR, AA, DL, UA or anyone else is too worried about this venture at the moment.


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The US3 do worry about Norwegian in one of their biggest international markets, the UK. While the UK-US market is much larger, two or three Norwegian 787 would add much capacity to the EZE to USA market especially MIA/ FLL to EZE. Doubtful that Norwegian would fly to ATL, IAH, ORD or DFW, very likely they would do EZE to FLL, MCO and/or JFK. Interesting times to see Norwegian's next move, if the summer is a bummer they could be history or a tasty meal for Lufthansa or British Airways. Argentina to USA provides a contra season in the winter.
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:37 am

A lot of talks about route, but I want to know which aircraft they'd be using. is Norwegian Argentina expecting anything else than 737s? or does the MAX have the legs to fly non stop?
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jfk777
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:44 am

AtomicGarden wrote:
A lot of talks about route, but I want to know which aircraft they'd be using. is Norwegian Argentina expecting anything else than 737s? or does the MAX have the legs to fly non stop?


With all the 787 the Norwegian group of airlines have it would be surprising if they were something else.
 
dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:44 am

chepos wrote:
Some of these routes are just silly, I really only see MIA coming to fruition for the time being. I don’t think AR, AA, DL, UA or anyone else is too worried about this venture at the moment.


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Those are route authorities that Norwegian requested and obtained 2-3 years ago. They are not routes that they intend to fly in the foreseeable future. As silly as they may sound today to many, they may become useful in the not too distant future.

If DN starts selling EZE-FLL/MIA for $500 r/t, you better believe AA & AR better start worrying. The same was said when Norwegian started flying over the North Atlantic in 2014. And look at them today: #1 foreign airline in the NYC market.
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dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:51 am

AtomicGarden wrote:
A lot of talks about route, but I want to know which aircraft they'd be using. is Norwegian Argentina expecting anything else than 737s? or does the MAX have the legs to fly non stop?


Actually, the airline has said in the past they would base (up to 4) some A321LR in Argentina. That may seem a good place to start.

I am also certain that Norwegian is watching very closely the "aircraft interchange" MO that LATAM wants approved if their EZE-MIA flights are to continue beyond 1/1/20. Norwegian stands to benefit tremendously if the ANAC approves the operation: they would not need to register those 787s or A321 as LV-, saving time and resources and facilitating their rotation with other Norwegian franchises in Europe and the UK. They are letting LATAM do the dirty work.
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AtomicGarden
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:08 am

dcajet wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
A lot of talks about route, but I want to know which aircraft they'd be using. is Norwegian Argentina expecting anything else than 737s? or does the MAX have the legs to fly non stop?


Actually, the airline has said in the past they would base (up to 4) some A321LR in Argentina. That may seem a good place to start.

I am also certain that Norwegian is watching very closely the "aircraft interchange" MO that LATAM wants approved if their EZE-MIA flights are to continue beyond 1/1/20. Norwegian stands to benefit tremendously if the ANAC approves the operation: they would not need to register those 787s or A321 as LV-, saving time and resources and facilitating their rotation with other Norwegian franchises in Europe and the UK. They are letting LATAM do the dirty work.


Well call me Peronist on this one, but I hope the govt. doesn't allow to use non LV gear unless it's an emergency or for a very limited time. LATAM should be able to spare a 767 instead of insisting on this issue. Same goes to any 787 Norwegian wants to base here.
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:09 am

Do they have a lot of slack in the fleet with routes going seasonal or being cut?
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Varsity1
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:21 am

Norwegian isn't even turning a profit, yet it's going to come in and canabalize a market for two airlines that are. That's what's wrong with the airline industry, primarily out of Europe. It's a pursuit of revenue, not profit, and it's a totally suicidal business plan.

I hope the recently introduced U.S. legislation against Norwegian is successful.
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dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:27 am

AtomicGarden wrote:
dcajet wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
A lot of talks about route, but I want to know which aircraft they'd be using. is Norwegian Argentina expecting anything else than 737s? or does the MAX have the legs to fly non stop?


Actually, the airline has said in the past they would base (up to 4) some A321LR in Argentina. That may seem a good place to start.

I am also certain that Norwegian is watching very closely the "aircraft interchange" MO that LATAM wants approved if their EZE-MIA flights are to continue beyond 1/1/20. Norwegian stands to benefit tremendously if the ANAC approves the operation: they would not need to register those 787s or A321 as LV-, saving time and resources and facilitating their rotation with other Norwegian franchises in Europe and the UK. They are letting LATAM do the dirty work.


Well call me Peronist on this one, but I hope the govt. doesn't allow to use non LV gear unless it's an emergency or for a very limited time. LATAM should be able to spare a 767 instead of insisting on this issue. Same goes to any 787 Norwegian wants to base here.


Airlines create jobs, not registrations. Interchanging its assets between subsidiaries is how the airline operates everywhere but in Argentina. Why should they continue to have a one off situation that costs them money and efficiency? They will not replace those 767 or.base any more 767s or even future 787s in Argentina unless interchanging goes ahead. This is it. Chau Miami and even more regrettable, chau jobs.
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OB1504
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:29 am

dcajet wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Actually, the airline has said in the past they would base (up to 4) some A321LR in Argentina. That may seem a good place to start.

I am also certain that Norwegian is watching very closely the "aircraft interchange" MO that LATAM wants approved if their EZE-MIA flights are to continue beyond 1/1/20. Norwegian stands to benefit tremendously if the ANAC approves the operation: they would not need to register those 787s or A321 as LV-, saving time and resources and facilitating their rotation with other Norwegian franchises in Europe and the UK. They are letting LATAM do the dirty work.


Well call me Peronist on this one, but I hope the govt. doesn't allow to use non LV gear unless it's an emergency or for a very limited time. LATAM should be able to spare a 767 instead of insisting on this issue. Same goes to any 787 Norwegian wants to base here.


Airlines create jobs, not registrations. Interchanging its assets between subsidiaries is how the airline operates everywhere but in Argentina. Why should they continue to have a one off situation that costs them money and efficiency? They will not replace those 767 or.base any more 767s or even future 787s in Argentina unless interchanging goes ahead. This is it. Chau Miami and even more regrettable, chau jobs.


Then again, if LATAM actually drops EZE-MIA over the interchange issue, that would leave a perfect opening for Norwegian to swoop in.
 
dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:33 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Do they have a lot of slack in the fleet with routes going seasonal or being cut?


Certain Scandinavia-US routes are going seasonal effective this winter. which is summer and high season in Argentina. Some of that slack should also go to cover for the grounded 787s with RR-engines issues. Norwegian will no longer wet lease third party aircraft to pick up the slack: huge quality issues for the pax ex as well as costs the airline wants to control.
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Etheereal
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:59 am

dcajet wrote:
FLL or MIA to EZE/COR/ROS/MDZ. That is the low hanging fruit. And doable with the A321XLR eventually. Not sure about the A321LR.

MIA to EZE with XLR? LOL. It would be so heavily restricted that any wind disturbance would force them to land in another airport.
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dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:05 am

Etheereal wrote:
dcajet wrote:
FLL or MIA to EZE/COR/ROS/MDZ. That is the low hanging fruit. And doable with the A321XLR eventually. Not sure about the A321LR.

MIA to EZE with XLR? LOL. It would be so heavily restricted that any wind disturbance would force them to land in another airport.


Let me be the one laughing. LOL

Per Airbus, the XLR will have a 4,700 nm range... MIA-EZE is 3,829 nm. That means both MCO and FLL/MIA to EZE are comfortably within the range of the XLR.

You were saying...?

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... 21xlr.html
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Etheereal
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:10 am

dcajet wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
dcajet wrote:
FLL or MIA to EZE/COR/ROS/MDZ. That is the low hanging fruit. And doable with the A321XLR eventually. Not sure about the A321LR.

MIA to EZE with XLR? LOL. It would be so heavily restricted that any wind disturbance would force them to land in another airport.


Let me be the one laughing. LOL

Per Airbus, the XLR will have a 4,700 nm range... MIA-EZE is 3,829 nm. That means both MCO and FLL/MIA to EZE are comfortably within the range of the XLR.

You were saying...?

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... 21xlr.html

Damn i just realized the gc map wasnt displaying nautic miles but the statute ones. That's what i get for not using freedom units.
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c933103
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:35 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Norwegian isn't even turning a profit, yet it's going to come in and canabalize a market for two airlines that are. That's what's wrong with the airline industry, primarily out of Europe. It's a pursuit of revenue, not profit, and it's a totally suicidal business plan.

I hope the recently introduced U.S. legislation against Norwegian is successful.

Norwegian Argentina is not a European-based airlines.
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olle
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:44 am

South America has too long been controlled by big business in combination with politics. LATAM is the big example of this with President Pinera protecting its moves.

high fares, low salaries controlled or no competition

Norwegian can easily change things to the better.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:20 am

As said by others, Argentina-US is a high-priced Y market as you see a lot of Y seats on the US3 going for 1.0-1.5K USD.

DY will definitely erode Y fares and I bet AA will feel the effect. Different scenario than TATL where competition is ferocious and Y fares have been rock-bottom for years.
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Blerg
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:27 am

Are there any tricks US3 can use to limit Norwegian from expanding or even launching these flights?
 
marcoantona
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:05 pm

As DCA stated before these are just route authorities. Doesn’t mean they will fly to all of them.
Regarding A321LR, they were delayed until 2022 at least, so if this permits go through all we may see is 787 operating. Besides, an EZE-MIA/FLL route is heavily relied on cargo, as well as pax, which an A321 would never manage to carry.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:20 pm

Blerg wrote:
Are there any tricks US3 can use to limit Norwegian from expanding or even launching these flights?


Norwegian will go out of business this winter. That's not a trick.
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dcajet
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:34 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Are there any tricks US3 can use to limit Norwegian from expanding or even launching these flights?


Norwegian will go out of business this winter. That's not a trick.


Any other predictions you could make for us, since you are at it?
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jfk777
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:36 pm

dcajet wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
dcajet wrote:
FLL or MIA to EZE/COR/ROS/MDZ. That is the low hanging fruit. And doable with the A321XLR eventually. Not sure about the A321LR.

MIA to EZE with XLR? LOL. It would be so heavily restricted that any wind disturbance would force them to land in another airport.


Let me be the one laughing. LOL

Per Airbus, the XLR will have a 4,700 nm range... MIA-EZE is 3,829 nm. That means both MCO and FLL/MIA to EZE are comfortably within the range of the XLR.

You were saying...?

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... 21xlr.html


People flying to EZE from the USA have gotten spoiled flying in 777, 747, A330 and 767's. The idea of flying in a A321XLR may not sound very appetizing for 9 hours, especially since Norwegian would have to put way too many seats on the plane to make the financials work. Sometimes cheap can be too cheap.
 
DCA350
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:08 pm

People flying to EZE from the USA have gotten spoiled flying in 777, 747, A330 and 767's. The idea of flying in a A321XLR may not sound very appetizing for 9 hours, especially since Norwegian would have to put way too many seats on the plane to make the financials work. Sometimes cheap can be too cheap.[/quote]

Money talks.. If you give the average Y customer the choice between a WB for $1k vs a NB for $500.. I am willing to bet you at least 85% percentage will gladly take the NB option. That being said I believe they could easily fill a 787 at $500rt
 
DCA350
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:09 pm

People flying to EZE from the USA have gotten spoiled flying in 777, 747, A330 and 767's. The idea of flying in a A321XLR may not sound very appetizing for 9 hours, especially since Norwegian would have to put way too many seats on the plane to make the financials work. Sometimes cheap can be too cheap.[/quote]

Money talks.. If you give the average Y customer the choice between a WB for $1k vs a NB for $500.. I am willing to bet you at least 85% percent will gladly take the NB option. That being said I believe they could easily fill a 787 at $500rt
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:12 pm

Some of these proposed routes, in fact Norwegian's entire proposal, are frankly beyond laughable. I mean, EZE-HNL?

The only one that makes some sense as there is consistent high demand is EZE-MIA. ORD, DFW, and IAH would require NAX to rely on O&D solely and those markets are all about connections. FLL is a good alternative to MIA from a catchment perspective, but NAX has shown it can't really make FLL work with what it has tried before. Cordoba, Rosario, and other secondary Argentina cities can maybe support 1 carrier, not more, and not more than a few times per week.
 
FLALEFTY
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:43 pm

Aerolineas Argentinas has already announced service between EZE & MCO. https://orlandoairports.net/press/2019/ ... nos-aires/ As noted, it will be seasonal, 3-times a week and flown with an A330.

If Norweigan decides to serve EZE & MCO, they would probably end up over-serving that market, which will be relatively low-yield in the first place.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 3844
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:48 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Some of these proposed routes, in fact Norwegian's entire proposal, are frankly beyond laughable. I mean, EZE-HNL?

The only one that makes some sense as there is consistent high demand is EZE-MIA. ORD, DFW, and IAH would require NAX to rely on O&D solely and those markets are all about connections. FLL is a good alternative to MIA from a catchment perspective, but NAX has shown it can't really make FLL work with what it has tried before. Cordoba, Rosario, and other secondary Argentina cities can maybe support 1 carrier, not more, and not more than a few times per week.


For the umpteenth time these are not proposed routes, they are route authorities that may eventually have some value. It costs nothing to Norwegian to request and to own them for 15-25 years (can't remember right now the actual shelf life of an unused authority under Argentinian law). Why does it irk you? You seem to have very definite feelings about Norwegian in any of its manifestations on every Norwegian thread that pops up... Fly and let fly man..

For the record, the 4x w COR-MIA on AA appears to be off to a great start on the first month of operations; loads are in the 80-90% range and cargo is a big contributor to the route. There is pent up demand from provincial cities, that COPA and LATAM are profiting from right now.

dca350 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
People flying to EZE from the USA have gotten spoiled flying in 777, 747, A330 and 767's. The idea of flying in a A321XLR may not sound very appetizing for 9 hours, especially since Norwegian would have to put way too many seats on the plane to make the financials work. Sometimes cheap can be too cheap.


Money talks.. If you give the average Y customer the choice between a WB for $1k vs a NB for $500.. I am willing to bet you at least 85% percentage will gladly take the NB option. That being said I believe they could easily fill a 787 at $500rt


Exactly. There is a huge So Florida-Argentina market (in fact MIA-EZE is one of the top 3 long haul routes out of MIA and the reverse is in the top 2 out of EZE) that will welcome a lower cost option. A good # of Argentinians hold second homes in Florida and any way to make the commute more cost advantageous will be welcomed by sensible travelers.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
EvanWSFO
Posts: 1094
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:22 pm

Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:56 pm

dcajet wrote:
Norwegian already holds route authorities on the following US-Argentina city pairs:

Buenos Aires – Chicago.
Buenos Aires – Dallas.
Buenos Aires – Honolulu.
Buenos Aires – Los Ángeles.
Buenos Aires – New York.
Buenos Aires – Fort Lauderdale.
Buenos Aires - Orlando.
Buenos Aires – San Francisco.
Córdoba – Fort Lauderdale.
Mendoza – Miami.
Rosario – Fort Lauderdale.


With maybe one or two exceptions, this list is laughable. They might start out with a bang, but end with a whimper like they are doing on TATL, regardless of what nation holds it's AOC.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 3844
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:00 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Some of these proposed routes, in fact Norwegian's entire proposal, are frankly beyond laughable. I mean, EZE-HNL?

The only one that makes some sense as there is consistent high demand is EZE-MIA. ORD, DFW, and IAH would require NAX to rely on O&D solely and those markets are all about connections. FLL is a good alternative to MIA from a catchment perspective, but NAX has shown it can't really make FLL work with what it has tried before. Cordoba, Rosario, and other secondary Argentina cities can maybe support 1 carrier, not more, and not more than a few times per week.


For the umpteenth time these are not proposed routes, they are route authorities that may eventually have some value. It costs nothing to Norwegian to request and to own them for 15-25 years (can't remember right now the actual shelf life of an unused authority under Argentinian law). Why does it irk you? You seem to have very definite feelings about Norwegian in any of its manifestations on every Norwegian thread that pops up... Fly and let fly man..

For the record, the 4x w COR-MIA on AA appears to be off to a great start on the first month of operations; loads are in the 80-90% range and cargo is a big contributor to the route. There is pent up demand from provincial cities, that COPA and LATAM are profiting from right now.

dca350 wrote:

Money talks.. If you give the average Y customer the choice between a WB for $1k vs a NB for $500.. I am willing to bet you at least 85% percentage will gladly take the NB option. That being said I believe they could easily fill a 787 at $500rt


Exactly. There is a huge So Florida-Argentina market (in fact MIA-EZE is one of the top 3 long haul routes out of MIA and the reverse is in the top 2 out of EZE) that will welcome a lower cost option. A good # of Argentinians hold second homes or run businesses in Florida and any way to make the commute more cost advantageous will be welcomed by sensible travelers.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: Norwegian files for Argentina - US service

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:21 am

dcajet wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Actually, the airline has said in the past they would base (up to 4) some A321LR in Argentina. That may seem a good place to start.

I am also certain that Norwegian is watching very closely the "aircraft interchange" MO that LATAM wants approved if their EZE-MIA flights are to continue beyond 1/1/20. Norwegian stands to benefit tremendously if the ANAC approves the operation: they would not need to register those 787s or A321 as LV-, saving time and resources and facilitating their rotation with other Norwegian franchises in Europe and the UK. They are letting LATAM do the dirty work.


Well call me Peronist on this one, but I hope the govt. doesn't allow to use non LV gear unless it's an emergency or for a very limited time. LATAM should be able to spare a 767 instead of insisting on this issue. Same goes to any 787 Norwegian wants to base here.


Airlines create jobs, not registrations. Interchanging its assets between subsidiaries is how the airline operates everywhere but in Argentina. Why should they continue to have a one off situation that costs them money and efficiency? They will not replace those 767 or.base any more 767s or even future 787s in Argentina unless interchanging goes ahead. This is it. Chau Miami and even more regrettable, chau jobs.


I think it's sensible that all a/c are registered and mantained in the same country. If they agree to let one frame be registered anywhere else, it's probably gonna begin a nasty trend and soon most a/c will be based somewhere else and mantained by who knows. is there any other part of the world that works like this? is this how European LCC operate?

if denying the request means chau jobs, so be it. I'd like to see how the unions spin the outcome. All in all it just seems that LATAM has no real interest in mantaining this particular route.
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