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Zoedyn
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Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:41 am

https://amp.businessinsider.com/first-l ... st-airport

So Poland's proposed new airport, the Centralny Port Komunikacyjny (CPK), is set in motion now for a crucial initial step.

* Various architectural firms are currently competing to take charge of the official design, which will ultimately be decided on by 2020.
* Among those who entered the five design concepts are Chapman Taylor, Foster+Partners, Grimshaw, Zaha Hadid Architects, and Benoy.


Plz click the link for a close look at these design concepts.
Very impressive!

So which one would be your pick if you sat on the judge panel?

Also I guess CPK would be the selected code for the new airport?

For related discussion on CPK, there is an earlier thread
Bloomberg: Poland Wants Its Planned Airport to Be a European Gateway to Asia
 
KLDC10
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:45 am

Some of the concepts look a little extravagant, no? In particular, the one with train tracks at multiple levels seems to be little more than an architectural pipe dream.
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Motorhussy
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:56 am

I really love the idea of designing a clean slate airport and these concepts are incredible. It’ll be interesting to see what’s settled on and settled for.
come visit the south pacific
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:07 pm

Foster’s concepts looks like Rogers’ new MEX
 
KLDC10
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:11 pm

The best airport I have ever connected in is Atlanta. Airports don't necessarily need to be pretty, they just need to be functional and intuitive.
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workhorse
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:42 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
The best airport I have ever connected in is Atlanta. Airports don't necessarily need to be pretty, they just need to be functional and intuitive.


Detroit, as far as I am concerned. You can't get more simple and more efficient than that: one looooooong terminal building with gates all along on both sides and a little train running from end to end and stopping every couple of hundred meters to go from gate to gate.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:46 pm

workhorse wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
The best airport I have ever connected in is Atlanta. Airports don't necessarily need to be pretty, they just need to be functional and intuitive.


Detroit, as far as I am concerned. You can't get more simple and more efficient than that: one looooooong terminal building with gates all along on both sides and a little train running from end to end and stopping every couple of hundred meters to go from gate to gate.


This is true, Detroit is also a good airport to transfer through, provided your intention is not to take photos of aircraft ;)
But again, that's a good example of simply functionality over extravagant architecture. So long as it's simple and convenient, it will work. Amsterdam is another example, although some of the walking distances from Schengen to Non-Schengen are pushing it these days.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
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VC10er
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:20 pm

Yes, and the old LaGuardia was always just fine for me, out of the taxi to the United check-in, just 5 minutes, wait in the lounge above for 30/40 minutes, wizz through security with TSA Pre Check, walk to my gate and in my seat in 9 minutes!
It was very ugly with low ceilings, huge fat chrome columns, the concourse looked like a trash service ally behind an old building in The Bronx, with signage that looked like someone ordered it from the Yellow Pages, every angle was an eyesore, and was extremely embarrassing to think about people visiting NYC for the first time and seeing this dump. But to go from the backseat of a taxi to your airplane seat was short and fast.
But I am thrilled that visually it looks beautiful!
But, I firmly believe humans derive great joy from beautiful design.
The raging argument in NYC over Hudson Yards, while spectacular- is it NYC?
The question for me here, and that’s really a question to the Polish: is this them, or is this Dubai?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
9Patch
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:26 pm

A lot of those concepts show glass buildings.
What are the implications for heating them in the winter and cooling them in the summer?
 
n797mx
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:46 pm

I don't know what Zaha Hadid Architects are smoking, but I want some of it.

The only one that looks semi achievable is the Foster + Partners one, and that still seems a bit far fetched to me. Reminds me of PIT with the X terminal.
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OA940
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:11 pm

May I ask how exactly they're planning to fill up this airport? I assume with it they're gonna replace both airports of Warsaw, but that alone is nowhere near enough to justify an airport of that size. Are they gonna replace more airports with this?
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Karlsands
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:16 pm

I love the interior with the trees and huge glass, makes you seem on the ramp itself
 
9Patch
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:31 pm

OA940 wrote:
May I ask how exactly they're planning to fill up this airport? I assume with it they're gonna replace both airports of Warsaw, but that alone is nowhere near enough to justify an airport of that size. Are they gonna replace more airports with this?


"Build it and they will come." :sarcastic:
 
T4thH
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
Some of the concepts look a little extravagant, no? In particular, the one with train tracks at multiple levels seems to be little more than an architectural pipe dream.


Sorry, is this not nowadays since several year standard?
Just Germany:
Frankfurt Airport The Squaire building area with the two railway stations, one regional and one for the fast trains, both underground (but not in two levels, just underground in few hundred m distance), the new Berlin Airport, building on top of the underground railway station or Berlin Central railway station with one underground (all fast trains) and one for the regionlal trains on the 3rd level up...
Last edited by T4thH on Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SEU
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:37 pm

Its ambitious to say the least, they will be competing with a lot of European hubs, Dubai, Qatar etc just with less OD and in a day and age where the future seems to be A321LRs, 787s and MOM P2P to cut out the big hubs. Not sure it will work.

But good luck, id love to see it work!
 
Andrw
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:43 pm

9Patch, really? You're a dreamer, a bad one that's for sure. In US maybe, in China, Japan, even Russia yes, they will come. In Poland? They want this magical dreamland airport on the grounds of "old" EPRA. The same airport that remained opened for two years and wasted $30mln and serviced one or two Ryanair, CSA and Air Baltic.
Let's remember a bit to North, around 50km, there EPWA, around 40km to East EPLB (barely functional at the moment I think), around 40km West EPLL, around 60-70km South-west EPKK and EPKT. Few years back, when gov of Poland tried to get funds from EU to build todays wasteful EPRA, EU deemed the project pointless because of location and proximity to larger airports. Yest I know, they want to close EPWA, but not before it expands its terminal and builds new parking spots.
IMO, the whole idea is just a way of money laundering, nothing more than I would expect from country with populists in gov.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:21 pm

T4thH wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
Some of the concepts look a little extravagant, no? In particular, the one with train tracks at multiple levels seems to be little more than an architectural pipe dream.


Sorry, is this not nowadays since several year standard?
Just Germany:
Frankfurt Airport The Squaire building area with the two railway stations, one regional and one for the fast trains, both underground (but not in two levels, just underground in few hundred m distance), the new Berlin Airport, building on top of the underground railway station or Berlin Central railway station with one underground (all fast trains) and one for the regionlal trains on the 3rd level up...


Well, Frankfurt Airport developed over time. The regional railway station came first in the 1970s and then the long-distance, high-speed station sometime around the turn of the Millennium. The former was bulit as part of the construction of Terminal 1, and so is directly underneath it, accessible via the shopping complex beneath the terminal. The long-distance station is much further away.

Well, yes, precisely. Berlin Hauptbahnhof was an enormous undertaking, but we have to remember that the purpose of the Polish construction is not to build a grand railway station, but an airport. Something simpler might save money.
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Milka
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:29 pm

What has to be considered is that this airport won't be operational for another 10-15 years by which time the Polish market will have grown substantially. However, I think it is a bit too ambitious and more of a pipe dream of the current government. Poland will hold general elections this year and if the governing party looses power (which is quite probable) then this project will be put on hold. There are simply much more important needs in the country than a mega hub that is going to kill 4 existing airports.
 
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:38 pm

I've always thought that Atlanta has the very best most compact layout. Its a layout that LHR has tried to copy though it messed up with terminal 2 mostly due to historic design. I have no idea where Poland expects to get the passengers from? It was only a few years ago that many here felt LOT was going out of business.
 
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:42 pm

n797mx wrote:
I don't know what Zaha Hadid Architects are smoking, but I want some of it.

The only one that looks semi achievable is the Foster + Partners one, and that still seems a bit far fetched to me. Reminds me of PIT with the X terminal.


Looks like Zaha Hadid Architects are a fan of Escher.
 
T4thH
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:50 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
Some of the concepts look a little extravagant, no? In particular, the one with train tracks at multiple levels seems to be little more than an architectural pipe dream.


Sorry, is this not nowadays since several year standard?
Just Germany:
Frankfurt Airport The Squaire building area with the two railway stations, one regional and one for the fast trains, both underground (but not in two levels, just underground in few hundred m distance), the new Berlin Airport, building on top of the underground railway station or Berlin Central railway station with one underground (all fast trains) and one for the regionlal trains on the 3rd level up...


Well, Frankfurt Airport developed over time. The regional railway station came first in the 1970s and then the long-distance, high-speed station sometime around the turn of the Millennium. The former was bulit as part of the construction of Terminal 1, and so is directly underneath it, accessible via the shopping complex beneath the terminal. The long-distance station is much further away.

Well, yes, precisely. Berlin Hauptbahnhof was an enormous undertaking, but we have to remember that the purpose of the Polish construction is not to build a grand railway station, but an airport. Something simpler might save money.


Yes, I pretty well know the Frankfurt Airport railway stations...used only 100 times? Or 200? As also regular changed at Berlin central.

[ironic on]But you have to remind, for a Airport with a planned final capacity of 100 million, you will need also railway tracks on several levels. How else all in Eurpe have to get there, to fill up the airport, as all global hub western europe Airports will have to be closed[/ironic of]

I am fully on your site, in my opinion the whole airport and scheduled by government capacity expectations are more or less silly. To believe, they can start with a capacity of 40 million is....just only silly
This is around the total capacity of all Airports in Poland.
And the final planned capacity of 100 million....no comment.
 
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:59 pm

T4thH wrote:
Yes, I pretty well know the Frankfurt Airport railway stations...used only 100 times? Or 200? As also regular changed at Berlin central.

[ironic on]But you have to remind, for a Airport with a planned final capacity of 100 million, you will need also railway tracks on several levels. How else all in Eurpe have to get there, to fill up the airport, as all global hub western europe Airports will have to be closed[/ironic of]

I am fully on your site, in my opinion the whole airport and scheduled by government capacity expectations are more or less silly. To believe, they can start with a capacity of 40 million is....just only silly
This is around the total capacity of all Airports in Poland.
And the final planned capacity of 100 million....no comment.


Are you familiar with the Millennium Dome in London? That is what this construction reminds me of - a pointless vanity project which will not reach anywhere near the potential the government plans.

Well, quite. I have no idea where the capacity figures are coming from. Supposedly the airport is to be a hub for LOT, but so far the airline only has about 14 widebodies and there are well-established Europe-Asia hubs in the Middle East, so where is all of this traffic supposed to come from? It seems irresponsible to me to plough ahead with this project.
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SRQLOT
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:59 pm

I read that at one point Poland was looking to financing a good deal of CPK through Chinese money, now with the whole Chinese spying threat and not wanting to be a slave to China plans of finding money might be more of a challenge. I think Poland will loose its net positive for money flowing in from EU in 2022. So how will it be financed? Will the next government cancel all plans if PIS won’t get majority in fall elections?

I hope WAW will survive this government.
 
T4thH
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:19 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Yes, I pretty well know the Frankfurt Airport railway stations...used only 100 times? Or 200? As also regular changed at Berlin central.

[ironic on]But you have to remind, for a Airport with a planned final capacity of 100 million, you will need also railway tracks on several levels. How else all in Eurpe have to get there, to fill up the airport, as all global hub western europe Airports will have to be closed[/ironic of]

I am fully on your site, in my opinion the whole airport and scheduled by government capacity expectations are more or less silly. To believe, they can start with a capacity of 40 million is....just only silly
This is around the total capacity of all Airports in Poland.
And the final planned capacity of 100 million....no comment.


Are you familiar with the Millennium Dome in London? That is what this construction reminds me of - a pointless vanity project which will not reach anywhere near the potential the government plans.

Well, quite. I have no idea where the capacity figures are coming from. Supposedly the airport is to be a hub for LOT, but so far the airline only has about 14 widebodies and there are well-established Europe-Asia hubs in the Middle East, so where is all of this traffic supposed to come from? It seems irresponsible to me to plough ahead with this project.

We can just stay at airports...every second regional airport in whole europe...like international airport Kassel-Calden, Augsburg Airport, Rostock, Siegerland Airport e.g. just to name some in Germany....?

And regarding numbers, these are the official stated by the government, They wan to have a mayor global hub, like Dubay, Heathrow e.g. but of course bigger, not as small as them. Initial capacity 40 million, final capacity 100. If they would Close all other airports around, it would be fine, if they will have a capacity of 30 million and a maximum possible of 40.But first, all the other smaller airports are also new and second, only one airport shall be replaced, Warsaw Chopin .
Last edited by T4thH on Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:22 pm

Andrw wrote:
9Patch, really? You're a dreamer, a bad one that's for sure. In US maybe, in China, Japan, even Russia yes, they will come. In Poland? They want this magical dreamland airport on the grounds of "old" EPRA. The same airport that remained opened for two years and wasted $30mln and serviced one or two Ryanair, CSA and Air Baltic.

Let's remember a bit to North, around 50km, there EPWA, around 40km to East EPLB (barely functional at the moment I think), around 40km West EPLL, around 60-70km South-west EPKK and EPKT. Few years back, when gov of Poland tried to get funds from EU to build todays wasteful EPRA, EU deemed the project pointless because of location and proximity to larger airports. Yest I know, they want to close EPWA, but not before it expands its terminal and builds new parking spots.

IMO, the whole idea is just a way of money laundering, nothing more than I would expect from country with populists in gov.


Whenever I have been to Poland, there are a few things that remind me quite a bit of Spain maybe 20 years ago.

All those new fancy airport terminals, trains and highways U/C everywhere. Poland is now the largest beneficiary of EU funds (like Spain a couple of decades ago) so it is the EU funds galore. Politicians love building anything (even if useless) because they can get money under the table and their voters also like seeing their country with fancy new infrastructure and buildings so they feel they live in a rich country like Germany. Win-win. Of course German or French construction, engineering companies likely also love this. So everybody is to blame.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:23 pm

T4thH wrote:
We can just stay at airports...every second regional airport in whole europe...like international airport Kassel-Calden, Augsburg Airport, Rostock, Siegerland Airport e.g. just to name some in Germany....?


Indeed, but there is usually some politician who stands to gain from construction. I was honestly unaware that there is an airport in Augsburg - ridiculous, so close to Munich.
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OA940
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:30 pm

goosebayguy wrote:
I've always thought that Atlanta has the very best most compact layout. Its a layout that LHR has tried to copy though it messed up with terminal 2 mostly due to historic design. I have no idea where Poland expects to get the passengers from? It was only a few years ago that many here felt LOT was going out of business.


Well I mean the armchair CEOs here who think they are entitled to an opinion about everything and that they're always right aren't quite what I would call a reliable source ;)
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T4thH
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:31 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
We can just stay at airports...every second regional airport in whole europe...like international airport Kassel-Calden, Augsburg Airport, Rostock, Siegerland Airport e.g. just to name some in Germany....?


Indeed, but there is usually some politician who stands to gain from construction. I was honestly unaware that there is an airport in Augsburg - ridiculous, so close to Munich.

And Nuremberg international. And Memmingen international and Hof Plauen...and...Salzburg and Friedrichshafen....and...
 
T4thH
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:32 pm

deleted as doublepost
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:35 pm

What would be the need of an airport this size in Poland?
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Zidane
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:47 pm

9Patch wrote:
A lot of those concepts show glass buildings.
What are the implications for heating them in the winter and cooling them in the summer?

Low emissivity glass should do the trick. Keeps inside cool during hot summers and warm during cold winters.
 
T4thH
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:52 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
What would be the need of an airport this size in Poland?


Perhaps Initial 25 to 30 million? with a maximum capacity of 40 million in best case? But this with maximum capacity...in 30 or 40 years...
 
T4thH
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:19 pm

Zidane wrote:
9Patch wrote:
A lot of those concepts show glass buildings.
What are the implications for heating them in the winter and cooling them in the summer?

Low emissivity glass should do the trick. Keeps inside cool during hot summers and warm during cold winters.

There is another reason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BCsseldorf_Airport_fire
Glass does not burn, it is easy to enclosed big volumes, so the smoke can not get to thick and the glass roofs can be opened to get rid of the smoke. And when the electric power/lights breaks down by shortcuts by the fire, you regular will get enough light from outsite through the glass during day. With the Düsseldorf Airport fire, the construction of terminals has fast changed globally.
 
gregpodpl
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:24 pm

2 euro cents from WAW - my home airport.
I hope this project will never happen, and will get cancelled. They have huge and ambitious plans: big airport, 1600km of new railways and hundred of kilometers of new highways.
And this is Poland - where almost all infrastructural projects are delayed for years. If CPK will go forward - they will make an airport in a field, an hour driving from Warsaw, only accessible by car/coach, with single highway connection - which will get blocked if there is an accident. It will take them years to connect it to any rail system, and it will end with slow trains operated by different companies - just to make it more complicated.
So I hope they'll find out there is no money for it and cancel it quietly, and allow WAW and WMI to grow - which is currently blocked by the government.
And fingers crossed for LO to not go bankrupt.
 
lhrnue
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:56 pm

Who is supposed to use this airport? LOT can't even fill their aircrafts now.
 
artflyer
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:30 pm

2018 no. of pax to/from Polish airports on regular flights was 40 mln. For comparison: 2013 number was 20 mln. The Polish FAA forecast for 2027, when the new airport were to be opened is 70 mln (IATA forecasts are higher). Statistically around 40% of that is Warsaw (WAW).
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:39 pm

lhrnue wrote:
Who is supposed to use this airport? LOT can't even fill their aircrafts now.



Problem is LOT doesn’t have enough aircraft. Yeah if you are talking about Budapest yes it’s rough right now. Hopefully it get going or gets shut down.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:42 pm

Posted in the LOT thread.
LOT wants to have 24 of 787 aircraft in 2025. Next year it will be 16 like the current plan states. A new plan is being worked on for LOT thru 2027.

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/31494 ... ogram.html
 
terefere
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:43 pm

T4thH wrote:
aviationjunky wrote:
What would be the need of an airport this size in Poland?


Perhaps Initial 25 to 30 million? with a maximum capacity of 40 million in best case? But this with maximum capacity...in 30 or 40 years...


That would be silly, given that WAW alone is already serving close to 20 million pax. Even with organic growth, in 10 years WAW would serve close to 25-30 million, and LOT is expanding (15 wide bodies now, planning to have more soon - how likely LOT is to survive this rapid expansion is another matter). What is the point of building an airport that will be at capacity when it opens? 40 million capacity is reasonable, if they expect the airport to serve 25-30 million around the year 2030 when the airport is supposed to open. The 100 million figure is the maximum capacity that will be allowed IF THEY CHOOSE TO expand the airport in the future. It has nothing to do with the infrastructure that is to be put in place now. It merely means ensuring that there will be space to expand if needed. This makes sense, given that this airport will serve Warsaw for years.
 
terefere
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:49 pm

Andrw wrote:
9Patch, really? You're a dreamer, a bad one that's for sure. In US maybe, in China, Japan, even Russia yes, they will come. In Poland? They want this magical dreamland airport on the grounds of "old" EPRA. The same airport that remained opened for two years and wasted $30mln and serviced one or two Ryanair, CSA and Air Baltic.
Let's remember a bit to North, around 50km, there EPWA, around 40km to East EPLB (barely functional at the moment I think), around 40km West EPLL, around 60-70km South-west EPKK and EPKT. Few years back, when gov of Poland tried to get funds from EU to build todays wasteful EPRA, EU deemed the project pointless because of location and proximity to larger airports. Yest I know, they want to close EPWA, but not before it expands its terminal and builds new parking spots.
IMO, the whole idea is just a way of money laundering, nothing more than I would expect from country with populists in gov.


A lot of this is factually incorrect.
- The new airport will NOT be on the grounds of EPRA, but instead will be located around 40 km west of Warsaw, on the highway and the new high speed railway to Łódź
- EPWA is to close when the new airport opens
- The distances are not correct
- The Polish govt never attempted to get funds for EPRA from the EU. Until recently the airport was owned by the local municipal govt which spent $30mln to built this airport and it was the local govt that tried to get EU funding
 
artflyer
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:08 pm

Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:50 pm

gregpodpl wrote:
2 euro cents from WAW - my home airport.
I hope this project will never happen, and will get cancelled. They have huge and ambitious plans: big airport, 1600km of new railways and hundred of kilometers of new highways.
And this is Poland - where almost all infrastructural projects are delayed for years. If CPK will go forward - they will make an airport in a field, an hour driving from Warsaw, only accessible by car/coach, with single highway connection - which will get blocked if there is an accident. It will take them years to connect it to any rail system, and it will end with slow trains operated by different companies - just to make it more complicated.
So I hope they'll find out there is no money for it and cancel it quietly, and allow WAW and WMI to grow - which is currently blocked by the government.
And fingers crossed for LO to not go bankrupt.


We, Poles, love to complain and then things go well:)
 
T4thH
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:53 pm

lhrnue wrote:
Who is supposed to use this airport? LOT can't even fill their aircrafts now.

{Ironic on[It is planned as "THE MEGA HUB", so everyone....or not[/Ironic of]

The passenger growth rates of Warsaw Chopin airport are good, these are fast growing. The number of fllights seems to be stable, so more passengers / flight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Chopin_Airport#Statistics

So there seems to be a demand. I also do not say, that a replacement for Warsaw Chopin willl not be OK, I am not aware, if Chopin has still capacity for further growth left. As number of aircraft movements do not grow, it seems not.

There is an important point; Warsaw is too far in the west of Europe, to have a benefit of the A321Xlr developement, else PIP will be nice for them. Transatlantic....to far inside of Europe, only limited number of cities in Canada and US can be reached. For Europe, all other directions for long haul single aisle are much less important.
 
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chunhimlai
Posts: 404
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:37 pm

T4thH wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
Who is supposed to use this airport? LOT can't even fill their aircrafts now.

{Ironic on[It is planned as "THE MEGA HUB", so everyone....or not[/Ironic of]

The passenger growth rates of Warsaw Chopin airport are good, these are fast growing. The number of fllights seems to be stable, so more passengers / flight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Chopin_Airport#Statistics

So there seems to be a demand. I also do not say, that a replacement for Warsaw Chopin willl not be OK, I am not aware, if Chopin has still capacity for further growth left. As number of aircraft movements do not grow, it seems not.

There is an important point; Warsaw is too far in the west of Europe, to have a benefit of the A321Xlr developement, else PIP will be nice for them. Transatlantic....to far inside of Europe, only limited number of cities in Canada and US can be reached. For Europe, all other directions for long haul single aisle are much less important.


I think LOT/WAW would focus in europe-asia like AY/HEL and SU/SVO
 
9Patch
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:52 am

Andrw wrote:
9Patch, really? You're a dreamer, a bad one that's for sure. In US maybe, in China, Japan, even Russia yes, they will come. In Poland?

I guess you didn't notice the sarcasm emoji I put at the end of my post.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:15 am

workhorse wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
The best airport I have ever connected in is Atlanta. Airports don't necessarily need to be pretty, they just need to be functional and intuitive.


Detroit, as far as I am concerned. You can't get more simple and more efficient than that: one looooooong terminal building with gates all along on both sides and a little train running from end to end and stopping every couple of hundred meters to go from gate to gate.


Detroit is not quite like that. It has two terminals, and a long psychedelic tunnel connecting them. It's simple, but not just one terminal.

Image
 
Andrw
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:55 am

Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:48 am

Terefere, I do realise, that Poland does not have many highways so people are not familiar with passing distances on these kind of routes, so believe me when I say, 10km this or other way on motorway does not make signifficant difference. EU slammed Poland for building "ghost airports" back in 2014, the same time when EPRA ended its first year of "existence". Being gov or local gov is not making much difference as such projects need to go thru ministry of infrastructure for approval and that is not local gov.
http://4liberty.eu/radom-airport-in-pol ... galomania/
There are still plans apparently to rebuild EPRA
https://tvn24bis.pl/z-kraju,74/lotnisko ... 29769.html
https://www.fly4free.pl/rozbudowa-lotni ... domiu-ppl/
(Sorry, both in polish) so I apologise if I provided misleading info but one of the pictures in the article is highly suggestive that is where the mega "magic" airport will be placed.
 
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Finn350
Posts: 1553
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:57 am

Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:57 am

kitplane01 wrote:
workhorse wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
The best airport I have ever connected in is Atlanta. Airports don't necessarily need to be pretty, they just need to be functional and intuitive.


Detroit, as far as I am concerned. You can't get more simple and more efficient than that: one looooooong terminal building with gates all along on both sides and a little train running from end to end and stopping every couple of hundred meters to go from gate to gate.


Detroit is not quite like that. It has two terminals, and a long psychedelic tunnel connecting them. It's simple, but not just one terminal.

Image


That is actually a single terminal with 3 concourses, to be exact.
 
terefere
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:45 am

Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Andrw wrote:
Terefere, I do realise, that Poland does not have many highways so people are not familiar with passing distances on these kind of routes, so believe me when I say, 10km this or other way on motorway does not make signifficant difference. EU slammed Poland for building "ghost airports" back in 2014, the same time when EPRA ended its first year of "existence". Being gov or local gov is not making much difference as such projects need to go thru ministry of infrastructure for approval and that is not local gov.
http://4liberty.eu/radom-airport-in-pol ... galomania/
There are still plans apparently to rebuild EPRA
https://tvn24bis.pl/z-kraju,74/lotnisko ... 29769.html
https://www.fly4free.pl/rozbudowa-lotni ... domiu-ppl/
(Sorry, both in polish) so I apologise if I provided misleading info but one of the pictures in the article is highly suggestive that is where the mega "magic" airport will be placed.


Andrw, I agree that EPRA is a ridiculous project and it has to do with some local-central govt conflict regarding the Modlin airport, 150km north of EPRA. But any approvals that need to be issues for an airport to open are not based on financial viability criteria, so the central govt cannot just say no. Now it is of course different, since the state owned PPL bought Radom airport.

But in any way, the ghost airport issue refers to the tiny airports that various entities, local or central, have at one point or another wanted to bring to life. I think the worst performer among the existing airports that got EU money was Lodz airport, which by the way, likely will have to close down when CPK opens.
Regarding EU funding, currently the EU position is that only airports that are part of the TEN-T network may get funding from the EU, those that are not on the list - cannot. Recently the polish govt announced that they reached an agreement with the European Commission that CPK will be put on that list, so if this is indeed true, EU funding will be available for this project (In Polish: http://wgospodarce.pl/informacje/61022- ... prawie-cpk)
Regardless of this, EU funding will be available for the railways and highways that are supposed to be an integral part of this project.
 
emuwarveteran
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:02 pm

In this thread: Americans talking about how this is a "pipe dream" and "unsustainable" because they are stuck with the outdated vision of Poland as a poor country which can only support low-cost carriers.
CL CRJ9, W6 A320
 
Prost
Posts: 2375
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Poland's proposed new mega airport CPK reveals competing design concepts

Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:28 pm

I can see the logic in building this airport honestly. FRA/AMS/LHR/LGW don’t seem excited to go, if you had a large mega connecting hub for Europe and the other airports can concentrate more on O&D. It might be a situation that when it opens it’s underutilized, but 15 years later it’s thought of as a genius idea.

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