Antarius
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:28 am

WBM wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
I am a frequent flyer with BA as I just live between Heathrow and Gatwick. This will change as soon as a route I want to get on is served by a MAX. I will not put my family in a MAX.


To each their own I guess. Personally if I had the chance I would be happy to fly on the MAX with my family tomorrow. Other things I’ve done with my family include white water rafting, skiing, a plane ride on small airplane, swimming, bike rides, hikes in wilderness areas, and rides in a car. My best estimate is that a flight on a MAX ranks somewhere between about as dangerous, to way less dangerous than each of those activities. By the time I actually get the chance to fly on a MAX, it is likely to be a lot safer than each of those things.


I have no interest in flying on the MAX tomorrow. Once it is cleared and returned to service, absolutely, but it has not been signed off yet.
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BoeingVista
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:29 am

keesje wrote:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/iag-chief-says-frustration-with-airbus-a-factor-in-boeing-purchase-1.3955112

Listening to the IAG chief, to qualify this oder as a sign of confidence in the Boeing 737 MAX seems a bit far fetched.

Willie (a 737 pilot) is in a weak negotiations position with Airbus & hates it.


There is also real danger for Walsh here if he tries to ram the 737 LOI into a firm order past the board without seriously considering an Airbus counter offer, this deal looks illogical and quoted companies boards are very conservative. Having said that Airbus delaying A320 deliveries for an average of 10 weeks needs to be urgently addressed, I suspect that Airbuses answers to IAG on this had a lot to do with the LOI and they will now take IAG more seriously on this and come to an accommodation.
BV
 
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keesje
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:36 am

par13del wrote:
are you hinting that Airbus has moved away from of their founding principles?


No :confused: I'm saying Willie (a 737 pilot) is in a weak negotiations position with Airbus & hates it.

I think Airbus should congratulate IAG on the deal/ LOI.

The MAX will be the most inspected aircraft of any aircraft flying in the sky.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2019-07-11/iag-ceo-willie-walsh-on-france-tax-brexit-boeing-video

Willie confirms Boeing genuinely makes good airplanes and they won't be delayed for 70 days on average.

They should seal an extra MAX LOI for BA mainline, say 150. No need for anybody to waste time on counter offers.

Airbus will no doubt be sorry they didn't get this deal, but they'll survive.

BA can proudly move back to 737's for the next 25 years. The board, crews and passengers will love it.

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Weatherwatcher1
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:59 am

Airbus is the one in a tough negotiating position, not IAG. Late deliveries have become such a big problem that IAG didn’t even issue an RFP to Airbus.
 
Antarius
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:24 am

keesje wrote:
Airbus will no doubt be sorry they didn't get this deal, but they'll survive.

BA can proudly move back to 737's for the next 25 years. The board, crews and passengers will love it.


This is the kind of rubbish that ruins the board. Inability to see any semblance of nuance. Where does it say anything about IAG not ordering more Airbus planes (the backbone of their NB fleet)

Stop polluting this thread with crazy wild non-supportable emotional drama.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
426Shadow
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:29 am

Antarius wrote:
keesje wrote:
Airbus will no doubt be sorry they didn't get this deal, but they'll survive.

BA can proudly move back to 737's for the next 25 years. The board, crews and passengers will love it.


This is the kind of rubbish that ruins the board. Inability to see any semblance of nuance. Where does it say anything about IAG not ordering more Airbus planes (the backbone of their NB fleet)

Stop polluting this thread with crazy wild non-supportable emotional drama.


Keesje is literally the last guy you would expect to say anything that wasn't to the detriment of Boeing, and the one time he does, you jump on his back?

Don't worry, he'll join you all soon enough in the Boeing bashing.
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Dominion301
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:30 am

enilria wrote:
Ironic reasons given the mess with the MAX.


Yeah if he thinks 70 days late for the NEO is bad, just wait (and wait, and wait, and...) for the MAX.

“Price wasn’t the only reason...”

Of course not, but it was the main reason.
 
Antarius
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:18 am

426Shadow wrote:
Antarius wrote:
keesje wrote:
Airbus will no doubt be sorry they didn't get this deal, but they'll survive.

BA can proudly move back to 737's for the next 25 years. The board, crews and passengers will love it.


This is the kind of rubbish that ruins the board. Inability to see any semblance of nuance. Where does it say anything about IAG not ordering more Airbus planes (the backbone of their NB fleet)

Stop polluting this thread with crazy wild non-supportable emotional drama.


Keesje is literally the last guy you would expect to say anything that wasn't to the detriment of Boeing, and the one time he does, you jump on his back?

Don't worry, he'll join you all soon enough in the Boeing bashing.


That comment was not a positive - it was a ludicrous hyperbole about 25 years of Boeing, something that no one ever has said or alluded to. An emotional "I didnt want it anyways" type lash out.

And where am I Boeing bashing? I think the order makes sense and I take WW (someone with a track record of success) at his word on this. No need for silly tin foil reasons to justify the order.
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WBM
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:27 am

Antarius wrote:
WBM wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
I am a frequent flyer with BA as I just live between Heathrow and Gatwick. This will change as soon as a route I want to get on is served by a MAX. I will not put my family in a MAX.


To each their own I guess. Personally if I had the chance I would be happy to fly on the MAX with my family tomorrow. Other things I’ve done with my family include white water rafting, skiing, a plane ride on small airplane, swimming, bike rides, hikes in wilderness areas, and rides in a car. My best estimate is that a flight on a MAX ranks somewhere between about as dangerous, to way less dangerous than each of those activities. By the time I actually get the chance to fly on a MAX, it is likely to be a lot safer than each of those things.


I have no interest in flying on the MAX tomorrow. Once it is cleared and returned to service, absolutely, but it has not been signed off yet.


That is a quite reasonable position to take. I will also say that I agree that the plane should be grounded for commercial flight until the fixes have been signed off. My point is that a MAX flight, even with out the fix, would be safer than many things that I regularly do without much worry. I would also be shocked if all the people who say they will never fly the MAX don’t have similar risk in their lives. I try to save my worry for actual danger.
 
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BoeingVista
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:07 am

lhrnue wrote:
I am a frequent flyer with BA as I just live between Heathrow and Gatwick. This will change as soon as a route I want to get on is served by a MAX. I will not put my family in a MAX.


I never fly 737 if I can avoid it, yet strangely 737 carriers survive.. IAG will probably survive both of our boycott :lol:
BV
 
caljn
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:20 am

BoeingVista wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
I am a frequent flyer with BA as I just live between Heathrow and Gatwick. This will change as soon as a route I want to get on is served by a MAX. I will not put my family in a MAX.


That's good parenting...unnecessarily make your children nervous wrecks.
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:22 am

caljn wrote:
BoeingVista wrote:
lhrnue wrote:
I am a frequent flyer with BA as I just live between Heathrow and Gatwick. This will change as soon as a route I want to get on is served by a MAX. I will not put my family in a MAX.


That's good parenting...unnecessarily make your children nervous wrecks.


Just WOW :roll:

Time for this thread to be locked!
 
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seahawk
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:31 am

It is a simple business decision. If your fleet is large enough for 2 types and considering that Bombardier and Embraer are gone, the only option to have some leverage with the aircraft manufacturers is to play them against each other. Which means both need to have a desire to get the deal and you must be in a position that grants both solutions equal chances.

We will see more Airbus users add the 737 again (LH next year - wait for it), as we will see 737 only users diversify into Airbus products. (A220 at SW)
 
ELBOB
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:45 am

seahawk wrote:
It is a simple business decision. If your fleet is large enough for 2 types and considering that Bombardier and Embraer are gone, the only option to have some leverage with the aircraft manufacturers is to play them against each other. Which means both need to have a desire to get the deal and you must be in a position that grants both solutions equal chances.


The more sensible long-term strategy would be to foster a third vendor in the marketplace. But that would require looking beyond the end of the CEO's term.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:34 am

There is more to the order than price. Look at when the aircraft are to be delivered. Right when LHR runway 3 is to be opened, at present. BA and the rest of the IAG family will be launching LHR to any-number-of-places at huge frequency. They will want to grab any slot that they can. A320s alone cannot be delivered in a sensible timeframe. By splitting the order between Boeing a large number of A320s can be freed up across the group for use at LHR. the first day of R3 operations will see a mostly "BA" crew of A320s, ex Vueling and Gatwick aircraft, maybe an assortment of leased-in capacity from the likes of Titan, etc. A bit like Gatwick last year.
 
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:02 am

BrianDromey wrote:
There is more to the order than price. Look at when the aircraft are to be delivered. Right when LHR runway 3 is to be opened, at present. BA and the rest of the IAG family will be launching LHR to any-number-of-places at huge frequency. They will want to grab any slot that they can. A320s alone cannot be delivered in a sensible timeframe. By splitting the order between Boeing a large number of A320s can be freed up across the group for use at LHR. the first day of R3 operations will see a mostly "BA" crew of A320s, ex Vueling and Gatwick aircraft, maybe an assortment of leased-in capacity from the likes of Titan, etc. A bit like Gatwick last year.


I'm willing to bet you hard cash that LHR will not have a 3rd runway in 2023, they were talking about it when I worked there 22 years ago!
BV
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:17 am

BrianDromey wrote:
There is more to the order than price. Look at when the aircraft are to be delivered. Right when LHR runway 3 is to be opened, at present. BA and the rest of the IAG family will be launching LHR to any-number-of-places at huge frequency. They will want to grab any slot that they can. A320s alone cannot be delivered in a sensible timeframe. By splitting the order between Boeing a large number of A320s can be freed up across the group for use at LHR. the first day of R3 operations will see a mostly "BA" crew of A320s, ex Vueling and Gatwick aircraft, maybe an assortment of leased-in capacity from the likes of Titan, etc. A bit like Gatwick last year.

That's an intriguing thought. I wonder how long the LoI can stay a LoI before it lapses. There will inevitably be delays to runway 3 if it happens at all. How feasible is it for Boeing to deliver shedloads of MAXes to various parts of IAG to more or less coincide with LHR unway 3 opening?
 
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:44 am

seahawk wrote:
It is a simple business decision. If your fleet is large enough for 2 types and considering that Bombardier and Embraer are gone, the only option to have some leverage with the aircraft manufacturers is to play them against each other. Which means both need to have a desire to get the deal and you must be in a position that grants both solutions equal chances.

It's interesting how much difficulty people are having unpacking what is being said.

We have 3 reasons he's raising as to why IAG signed the LOI:

IAG SA Chief Executive Officer Willie Walsh said frustration with Airbus SE over late jetliner deliveries (1) was a factor in his decision to place a $24 billion order for Boeing Co.’s grounded 737 Max model.

Cost (2) and a desire to have a mixed narrow-body fleet (3) weren’t the only considerations in the purchase, with IAG experiencing a 70-day delay on average for handovers of the A320neo aircraft, which competes with the Max, the CEO said in an interview.

If you can't take in (1), he gives you some help in taking it in:

The outline deal for 200 737s, revealed at the Paris Air Show last month, “should be an indication not just to Airbus but to everybody that we’re unhappy with their performance,” Walsh said in Brussels.

If you can't take in (3), he gives you some help in taking it in:

Walsh said he fully intends to sign off on the deal and won’t be approaching the European manufacturer, adding that he doesn’t want to be “solely dependent” on one company for his group’s entire narrow-body fleet.

It seems everyone is having no problem taking in (2).

I think the fact that he's willing to take in the 737 fully aware that it is at a very low point in its history should be read as a statement of how "unhappy" WW and in turn IAG is with the incumbent's performance.

The fact he "won’t be approaching the European manufacturer" tells you it's not about getting the lowest cost, it's about him reaching the conclusion that the only way to keep Airbus keen is to bring in a competitor.
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:36 pm

Revelation wrote:
enilria wrote:
Ironic reasons given the mess with the MAX.

I think he was referring to the mess with A32x, GTF and LEAP-1A production.

You mean, the same mess as with the LEAP-1B which, according to some, was the reason for reducing MAX rate from 52 to 42 p/m.
At least, CFM now has some capacity on their hands to fix the -1A issues as well . . . :-)
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Revelation
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:41 pm

PW100 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
enilria wrote:
Ironic reasons given the mess with the MAX.

I think he was referring to the mess with A32x, GTF and LEAP-1A production.

You mean, the same mess as with the LEAP-1B which, according to some, was the reason for reducing MAX rate from 52 to 42 p/m.
At least, CFM now has some capacity on their hands to fix the -1A issues as well . . . :-)

Right now, WW is providing an "indication not just to Airbus but to everybody that we’re unhappy with their performance".

Maybe some day he'll send a similar indication about Boeing, but for now, what we have is his indication of his unhappiness with Airbus.
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PW100
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:56 pm

Revelation wrote:
PW100 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I think he was referring to the mess with A32x, GTF and LEAP-1A production.

You mean, the same mess as with the LEAP-1B which, according to some, was the reason for reducing MAX rate from 52 to 42 p/m.
At least, CFM now has some capacity on their hands to fix the -1A issues as well . . . :-)

Right now, WW is providing an "indication not just to Airbus but to everybody that we’re unhappy with their performance".
Maybe some day he'll send a similar indication about Boeing, but for now, what we have is his indication of his unhappiness with Airbus.

Wonder how much of that unhappiness can be undone by correct pricing, as I doubt that the order would be his indication (to everybody) of his happiness with the MAX situation; that would need some serious splaining to his own customers . . .
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rta
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:06 pm

Doesn't BA use containers for luggage? Is that going to change with the 737 MAX?
 
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Revelation
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:14 pm

PW100 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
PW100 wrote:
You mean, the same mess as with the LEAP-1B which, according to some, was the reason for reducing MAX rate from 52 to 42 p/m.
At least, CFM now has some capacity on their hands to fix the -1A issues as well . . . :-)

Right now, WW is providing an "indication not just to Airbus but to everybody that we’re unhappy with their performance".
Maybe some day he'll send a similar indication about Boeing, but for now, what we have is his indication of his unhappiness with Airbus.

Wonder how much of that unhappiness can be undone by correct pricing, as I doubt that the order would be his indication (to everybody) of his happiness with the MAX situation; that would need some serious splaining to his own customers . . .

That's the thing: he's saying it is not a matter of tactics (price), it's a matter of strategy (fleet diversity).

Again:

Walsh said he fully intends to sign off on the deal and won’t be approaching the European manufacturer, adding that he doesn’t want to be “solely dependent” on one company for his group’s entire narrow-body fleet.

That's also why I think the issue of shareholders and the board pushing back based on cost will go no where.

He's a Chief Executive and he's making a strategy decision, not a tactical one, and that's what the Board hired him to do.

The idea that a Board would be so upset over this deal that they'd pressure him to do something different seems preposterous to me.

rta wrote:
Doesn't BA use containers for luggage? Is that going to change with the 737 MAX?

BA uses containers at LHR T5.

BA doesn't use containers at LGW and other places.

While hand loading has its down sides, containers are heavy and they add other inefficiencies to the system.
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:22 pm

I wonder why so many posters here do not read earlier posts in the thread!

It has been stated by WW - and included in many of the early posts - that these B737s will NOT BE USED BY BA AT LHR

As reported, they are destined for BA Gatwick, Level, Veuling, .... In no way is it intended (but who knows if it might actually come about) that any 1 of these 200 737s operated to or from LHR! So one more runway at Heathrow or not has 0 influence on this deal

.....but unless

turn Veuling into a 737 shop, and repaint all the current Veuling A320s into bog standard BA livery - good to go!
 
rta
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:38 pm

Revelation wrote:

BA uses containers at LHR T5.

BA doesn't use containers at LGW and other places.

While hand loading has its down sides, containers are heavy and they add other inefficiencies to the system.

Appreciate the info, thank you.
 
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par13del
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:48 pm

Revelation wrote:
He's a Chief Executive and he's making a strategy decision, not a tactical one, and that's what the Board hired him to do.
The idea that a Board would be so upset over this deal that they'd pressure him to do something different seems preposterous to me.

My thought would be if the board decides to weigh in on his strategic decision and allow Airbus to submit a bid based on cost, it will not eliminate the risk of the airlines having one NB provider but the funds saved on purchase price could be used to mitigate said risk, after all, at the end of the day, it is all about the money.
One can expect Board members to feel pressure from the European base so I would not be shocked to see something quietly coming out next year or so.
 
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767333ER
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:13 pm

So contrary to what they say sometimes fanboyism is a factor in an airline’s aircraft order
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T
 
Pavlakakos
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:28 pm

Well, good luck filling up those 200 birds IF and WHEN they fly. It's not only the matter of fixing the problems, but getting approval from several bodies this time, since apparently the FAA approval won't be enough for Europe or China.

Working for a travel agency, lately I've had cases of people asking about the type they're going to fly, unheard for most (and for us) until last year.

Yap. The internet has provided a lot of information for humanity, but at the same time it created some very graphic horror-stories.
 
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seahawk
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:07 pm

Revelation wrote:
seahawk wrote:
It is a simple business decision. If your fleet is large enough for 2 types and considering that Bombardier and Embraer are gone, the only option to have some leverage with the aircraft manufacturers is to play them against each other. Which means both need to have a desire to get the deal and you must be in a position that grants both solutions equal chances.

It's interesting how much difficulty people are having unpacking what is being said.

We have 3 reasons he's raising as to why IAG signed the LOI:

IAG SA Chief Executive Officer Willie Walsh said frustration with Airbus SE over late jetliner deliveries (1) was a factor in his decision to place a $24 billion order for Boeing Co.’s grounded 737 Max model.

Cost (2) and a desire to have a mixed narrow-body fleet (3) weren’t the only considerations in the purchase, with IAG experiencing a 70-day delay on average for handovers of the A320neo aircraft, which competes with the Max, the CEO said in an interview.

If you can't take in (1), he gives you some help in taking it in:

The outline deal for 200 737s, revealed at the Paris Air Show last month, “should be an indication not just to Airbus but to everybody that we’re unhappy with their performance,” Walsh said in Brussels.

If you can't take in (3), he gives you some help in taking it in:

Walsh said he fully intends to sign off on the deal and won’t be approaching the European manufacturer, adding that he doesn’t want to be “solely dependent” on one company for his group’s entire narrow-body fleet.

It seems everyone is having no problem taking in (2).

I think the fact that he's willing to take in the 737 fully aware that it is at a very low point in its history should be read as a statement of how "unhappy" WW and in turn IAG is with the incumbent's performance.

The fact he "won’t be approaching the European manufacturer" tells you it's not about getting the lowest cost, it's about him reaching the conclusion that the only way to keep Airbus keen is to bring in a competitor.


I personally think the MAX decision was a very good decision. IAG will pay a very low price and will be able to replace old A320CEOs more quickly and mostly for uses where the 737-8 is a perfect choice. Point-to-point connections below 2000nm is what the 737 does best and that matches the needs of Vueling and Level just fine. The NEOs can go to LHR, MAD and DUB, the rest can be covered by MAXs.

I expect LH to come to similar conclusion for the group. Use the NEOs for the network airlines and get a good deal on the MAX for the low cost point to point operations. Any difference between the 2 is more than compensated by being able to retire a 15+ year old CEO 5 years early anyway.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:55 pm

I've previously listed 9 points of why this is a good strategy for IAG.

But what I don't understand is how Airbus didn't even know about this deal until it was announced?

In the EU there are antitrust and competition laws. As a large company, you can't just place a massive order at company A, without even contacting company B to see what they can deliver at what price.

Since this is just a LOI, does IAG have to go to Airbus and let them deliver a competitive offering before signing a firm order with Boeing? I know Airbus have stated that they will. I just find it strange that Airbus didn't even know about this.

I'm really not an expert in this topic. Could someone explain how this happened?
 
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:42 pm

Revelation wrote:

That's also why I think the issue of shareholders and the board pushing back based on cost will go no where.

He's a Chief Executive and he's making a strategy decision, not a tactical one, and that's what the Board hired him to do.

The idea that a Board would be so upset over this deal that they'd pressure him to do something different seems preposterous to me.



Exactly, he's the chief executive officer, not the owner or even the chairman. There will always be a limit to his authority, and the board can definitely question his decision if they want to.

I don't know about IAG, but I have been to some board meetings in my organization, and they could REALLY dig deep when it comes to making major decisions. This is a 200 aircraft order, Walsh definitely needs the approval of the board to get that budget.

I am not saying that Walsh made the wrong decision, he is a world class CEO after all, but I do agree that it is absolutely unusual not to get a bid from Airbus as well. I am not buying the 'not wanting to get a single OEM for my whole narrowbody fleet' excuse. It's not like the 99% of the world airlines that rely on a single narrowbody manufacturer are at strategic risk. That's a pretty common practice in the industry. What if Airbus gave a better offer than Boeing? How much would they have saved in that gigantic order? Don't you think the board has the right to know why?

Airbus wanted to pressure him by letting the public know, and they have succeeded. He even had to come out and defend his decision publically.
 
BREECH
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:37 pm

Cunard wrote:
Willie Walsh will no doubt go down in history as being one of best if not the best CEO's British Airways has ever had

A distinction one is unlikely to work too hard to achieve.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
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noviorbis77
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:08 pm

keesje wrote:
par13del wrote:
are you hinting that Airbus has moved away from of their founding principles?


No :confused: I'm saying Willie (a 737 pilot) is in a weak negotiations position with Airbus & hates it.

I think Airbus should congratulate IAG on the deal/ LOI.

The MAX will be the most inspected aircraft of any aircraft flying in the sky.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2019-07-11/iag-ceo-willie-walsh-on-france-tax-brexit-boeing-video

Willie confirms Boeing genuinely makes good airplanes and they won't be delayed for 70 days on average.

They should seal an extra MAX LOI for BA mainline, say 150. No need for anybody to waste time on counter offers.

Airbus will no doubt be sorry they didn't get this deal, but they'll survive.

BA can proudly move back to 737's for the next 25 years. The board, crews and passengers will love it.

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https://airlinerwatch.com/first-boeing- ... h-airways/



It is nonsense like this that spoils this board.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:43 pm

There's something interesting and relevant to this topic in the recent Reuters article about Air France looking at new planes. Basically this deal came as a surprise for Airbus, but also eased their anxiety over the prospect of new certification rules.

"The expected deal marks a rebound for Airbus after rival Boeing (BA.N) poached part of the fleet of British Airways owner IAG (ICAG.L) at last month’s Paris Airshow.

That deal caught Airbus off guard, though in the longer term sources say it may also have eased the European planemaker’s anxieties over the grounding of Boeing’s 737 MAX following the Ethiopian Airlines crash in March.

Airbus privately hopes the MAX will survive the crisis to avoid a costly race to develop all-new aircraft and to ease the prospect of a radical change in certification rules."



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKCN1UD21G

Mods, please note this is not an attempt to change the subject. I thought about what thread would be appropriate without opening a new topic, and it seems the comments in the article were relevant to this discussion.
 
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qf789
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:17 am

IAG wants to bring forward deliveries of 737MAX a year earlier to 2022

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKCN1US0RR
Forum Moderator
 
by738
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:51 am

....or Boeing offering earlier delivery slots due to the increasing number of cancelled orders..
 
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:52 am

qf789 wrote:
IAG wants to bring forward deliveries of 737MAX a year earlier to 2022

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKCN1US0RR


It is quite interesting to see that IAG is pomping out good news for the MAX with all the bad news coming in.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:54 am

They want to get those slots so Ryanair can't get them.
 
brindabella
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:48 pm

by738 wrote:
....or Boeing offering earlier delivery slots due to the increasing number of cancelled orders..


Source?
Billy
 
bob75013
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:48 pm

by738 wrote:
....or Boeing offering earlier delivery slots due to the increasing number of cancelled orders..



What cancelled orders are they?

There's flyadeal and ..... what?????
 
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Revelation
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:15 pm

Dutchy wrote:
qf789 wrote:
IAG wants to bring forward deliveries of 737MAX a year earlier to 2022

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKCN1US0RR


It is quite interesting to see that IAG is pomping out good news for the MAX with all the bad news coming in.

Either that, or things are not as bad as the media makes them appear to be.
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:01 pm

bob75013 wrote:
by738 wrote:
....or Boeing offering earlier delivery slots due to the increasing number of cancelled orders..



What cancelled orders are they?

There's flyadeal and ..... what?????


Jet Airways' order which is where the rumored slots are coming from. There may of been some slots opened by deferments as well?
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
VV
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:13 pm

Isn't a cancellation normal, especially with such a huge backlog for A320neo family and 737 MAXÉ

I am expecting a lot more cancellations in the coming months, for A320neo, A220 and 737 MAX. It is not at all a disaster. It is normal.

This being said, I feel Boeing manages its 737 MAX backlog in a very discipline manner. It is not sure there are many overbooking. I am not saying there is not any, but it looks like they really want to have a solid rock backlog. Each time there is an announcement for cancellation it is either preceded by an announce of new orders or immediately followed by another order. I do not know what the reality is, but that's the feeling I have.
 
by738
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:44 pm

bob75013 wrote:
by738 wrote:
....or Boeing offering earlier delivery slots due to the increasing number of cancelled orders..



What cancelled orders are they?

There's flyadeal and ..... what?????

Garuda Indonesia (49)
FlyDeal (30)
China Southern (64)
Air Lease Corp (3)
Sriwijaya Air (2)

Plus Jet Airways, Nok Air
 
marcelh
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:59 pm

Revelation wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
qf789 wrote:
IAG wants to bring forward deliveries of 737MAX a year earlier to 2022

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKCN1US0RR


It is quite interesting to see that IAG is pomping out good news for the MAX with all the bad news coming in.

Either that, or things are not as bad as the media makes them appear to be.

Or this “good news” is just a part of the deal...
 
bob75013
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:09 pm

by738 wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
by738 wrote:
....or Boeing offering earlier delivery slots due to the increasing number of cancelled orders..



What cancelled orders are they?

There's flyadeal and ..... what?????

Garuda Indonesia (49)
FlyDeal (30)
China Southern (64)
Air Lease Corp (3)
Sriwijaya Air (2)

Plus Jet Airways, Nok Air


Perhaps you should refer to the end of the China Southern thread before you include China Southern ...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1428247&p=21552615&hilit=china+southern#p21552615
 
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Francoflier
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:17 pm

Revelation wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
qf789 wrote:
IAG wants to bring forward deliveries of 737MAX a year earlier to 2022

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ethi ... SKCN1US0RR


It is quite interesting to see that IAG is pomping out good news for the MAX with all the bad news coming in.

Either that, or things are not as bad as the media makes them appear to be.


I don't know... I wouldn't call obtaining such early delivery slots 'good news' (for Boeing, that is... great news for BA indeed).

I can't imagine how much you'd have to pay Airbus today to get a NEO in 2022, or even Boeing for an early MAX slot before the debacle.
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by738
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:09 pm

bob75013 wrote:
by738 wrote:
bob75013 wrote:


What cancelled orders are they?

There's flyadeal and ..... what?????

Garuda Indonesia (49)
FlyDeal (30)
China Southern (64)
Air Lease Corp (3)
Sriwijaya Air (2)

Plus Jet Airways, Nok Air


Perhaps you should refer to the end of the China Southern thread before you include China Southern ...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1428247&p=21552615&hilit=china+southern#p21552615


But the others don't count? What?????
 
bob75013
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:45 pm

by738 wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
by738 wrote:
Garuda Indonesia (49)
FlyDeal (30)
China Southern (64)
Air Lease Corp (3)
Sriwijaya Air (2)

Plus Jet Airways, Nok Air


Perhaps you should refer to the end of the China Southern thread before you include China Southern ...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1428247&p=21552615&hilit=china+southern#p21552615


But the others don't count? What?????


Not much different than NEO cancellations. I can count 35 and I didn;t try hard to find them:

ethiad 10
germania 25
 
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qf789
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Re: IAG 737 Max Order Is Prompted by More Than Just Price: CEO

Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:53 pm

by738 wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
by738 wrote:
....or Boeing offering earlier delivery slots due to the increasing number of cancelled orders..



What cancelled orders are they?

There's flyadeal and ..... what?????

Garuda Indonesia (49)
FlyDeal (30)
China Southern (64)
Air Lease Corp (3)
Sriwijaya Air (2)

Plus Jet Airways, Nok Air


Garuda ended up deferring their order and converting into 737MAX10 and 787's but nothing has been confirmed
Flyadeal never had a firm order it was only a MOU therefore there can be no order to cancel
China Southern is nothing more than a rumor as nothing has been confirmed

If you have some supporting evidence to say otherwise please share it, we are all waiting for it
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