For those of you who would like to take a virtual tour inside KLM 787-10


https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=Ct5S5QuxBEi

Very nice, thank you

Absolutely cool ! Thanks for sharing !

Wow! Awesome!

One thing, the aircraft appears to have an access to a cabin crew rest area at the rear.

MoKa777 wrote:

Wow! Awesome!

One thing, the aircraft appears to have an access to a cabin crew rest area at the rear.

That's correct that is for cabin crew. Forward is for cockpit crew.

This is very cool, thank you for sharing! I would love to try out their WBC cabin one day!

Flanker7 wrote:

For those of you who would like to take a virtual tour inside KLM 787-10


https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=Ct5S5QuxBEi

this is a very cool presentation, thank you.
does anyone know what those 3 ceiling blue translucent "sheets" are in the front of the Y cabin?

I can't say I'm in love with their lav to pax ratio though... then I looked at their 789, and thats even worse. ugh.

FlyHappy wrote:

does anyone know what those 3 ceiling blue translucent "sheets" are in the front of the Y cabin?

Movable cabin “dividers” to indicate the border between normal economy and economy comfort. A bit more legroom, you can see the offset between rows in the middle and window sides as well, and they are probably fairly easy to reconfigure to “normal economy” or configure a few extra economy comfort seats.

That's a fantastic virtual walk through!

A few questions:

1. The 787 cockpit has four windows. Is it any less restricted in viewing than other aircraft with more windows? Are there regulations that govern the minimum viewing area outside from the cockpit?

2. This cockpit had two well outfitted jumpseats. Are these standard in the 787? Why are they needed or why is this design needed?

3. The Economy Comfort layout is odd. 2 rows left and right and 5 rows in the center section. Why did KL choose this configuration? Why not three rows left, center, right? This would have yielded 27 vs 24 seats. Is KL not confident it can sell an additional 3 Economy Comfort seats?

intrance wrote:

FlyHappy wrote:

does anyone know what those 3 ceiling blue translucent "sheets" are in the front of the Y cabin?

Movable cabin “dividers” to indicate the border between normal economy and economy comfort. A bit more legroom, you can see the offset between rows in the middle and window sides as well, and they are probably fairly easy to reconfigure to “normal economy” or configure a few extra economy comfort seats.

They are visual cabin dividers. KL chose to use a fabric screen which makes them look like fly swatters. Absolutely cheap. Other airliners have chosen better materials.

KL's choice to not make Economy Comfort an even number of rows (2 left, 5 center, 2 left) makes the cabin dividers look even worse. In addition, KL chose to put "Wi/Fi" on them. Very odd. A much better design would have been: three rows of seats left, center, right; better materials for the visual dividers; and "KLM Economy Comfort" on the dividers. This would have been a cleaner, more premium look.

Although I hate the use of visual cabin dividers between F and Y like a lot of US airlines are doing I think they are effective between Y and Y+.

Otherwise KLM did a really good job on the design of this cabin.

questions wrote:

The Economy Comfort layout is odd. 2 rows left and right and 5 rows in the center section. Why did KL choose this configuration? Why not three rows left, center, right? This would have yielded 27 vs 24 seats. Is KL not confident it can sell an additional 3 Economy Comfort seats?

The length of the rows is different. This configuration seats most people with standard seat pitch for economy and comfort.

Jetty wrote:

questions wrote:

The Economy Comfort layout is odd. 2 rows left and right and 5 rows in the center section. Why did KL choose this configuration? Why not three rows left, center, right? This would have yielded 27 vs 24 seats. Is KL not confident it can sell an additional 3 Economy Comfort seats?

The length of the rows is different. This configuration seats most people with standard seat pitch for economy and comfort.

Actually I misstated the number of Economy Comfort seats.
- Two rows on the left = 6
- Five rows in the center section = 15
- Two rows on the right = 6
- Total Economy Comfort seats = 27
- Three rows of 9 seats would still be 27.

The total number of rows of Economy Comfort and Economy are:
- Left: 34
- Center: 34
- Right: 34

Your argument doesn't make sense. Economy Comfort row 15D-G could be swapped out for an Economy row on the left and Economy Comfort row 16D-G could be swapped out for an Economy row on the right.

Please clarify your POV... or my question still stands:

Why Did KL choose this awkward Economy Comfort configuration?

questions wrote:

Jetty wrote:

questions wrote:

The Economy Comfort layout is odd. 2 rows left and right and 5 rows in the center section. Why did KL choose this configuration? Why not three rows left, center, right? This would have yielded 27 vs 24 seats. Is KL not confident it can sell an additional 3 Economy Comfort seats?

The length of the rows is different. This configuration seats most people with standard seat pitch for economy and comfort.

Actually I misstated the number of Economy Comfort seats.
- Two rows on the left = 6
- Five rows in the center section = 15
- Two rows on the right = 6
- Total Economy Comfort seats = 27
- Three rows of 9 seats would still be 27.

The total number of rows of Economy Comfort and Economy are:
- Left: 34
- Center: 34
- Right: 34

Your argument doesn't make sense. Economy Comfort row 15D-G could be swapped out for an Economy row on the left and Economy Comfort row 16D-G could be swapped out for an Economy row on the right.

Please clarify your POV... or my question still stands:

Why Did KL choose this awkward Economy Comfort configuration?

Start by counting the seats correctly: the side rows have 1 seat extra. Just looking at the pictures you can tell the length of the rows is different but not so different to fit one extra seat.

There is no room for switching economy seats to economy comfort seats at the side rows and the reverse wouldn’t clear enough space for an extra row of economy at the center rows thus this is the sensible option.

Jetty wrote:

questions wrote:

Jetty wrote:

The length of the rows is different. This configuration seats most people with standard seat pitch for economy and comfort.

Actually I misstated the number of Economy Comfort seats.
- Two rows on the left = 6
- Five rows in the center section = 15
- Two rows on the right = 6
- Total Economy Comfort seats = 27
- Three rows of 9 seats would still be 27.

The total number of rows of Economy Comfort and Economy are:
- Left: 34
- Center: 34
- Right: 34

Your argument doesn't make sense. Economy Comfort row 15D-G could be swapped out for an Economy row on the left and Economy Comfort row 16D-G could be swapped out for an Economy row on the right.

Please clarify your POV... or my question still stands:

Why Did KL choose this awkward Economy Comfort configuration?

Start by counting the seats correctly: the side rows have 1 seat extra. Just looking at the pictures you can tell the length of the rows is different but not so different to fit one extra seat.

There is no room for switching economy seats to economy comfort seats at the side rows and the reverse wouldn’t clear enough space for an extra row of economy at the center rows thus this is the sensible option.

I can count.

Your argument still doesn’t make sense or is incomplete.

For reference:
https://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/prepare_for_travel/on_board/our_aircraft/boeing_787_10.htm

The configuration of rows in Economy Comfort and Economy is 3-3-3. The “side rows” do not “have 1 seat extra.” Do you mean an extra row of three seats?

The forward cabin has:
Left: 17 rows of three seats
Center: 16 rows of three seats
Right: 17 rows of three seats

The center section may have less rows of seats because there are 3 additional rows of Economy Comfort with greater seat pitch plus, according to the diagram, a larger lav, probably handicap compliant. Based on the virtual walkthrough the lav takes up less than half the depth of a seat.

So, to begin to answer my own question, to which you have been incredibly inarticulate in providing a POV while accusing me of being unable to count, it appears KL could not find a better way to configure the Economy Comfort section of the forward Y cabin due to the larger handicap accessible lav although KL addressed this in the 787-9 by moving the center row of seats slightly forward.

Given this, it appears KL could have configured the 787-10 with three rows of Economy Comfort seats by moving the center section forward as they did in the 787-9. Does anyone with analytical problem-solving skills know why they didn’t?

Flanker7 wrote:

MoKa777 wrote:

Wow! Awesome!

One thing, the aircraft appears to have an access to a cabin crew rest area at the rear.

That's correct that is for cabin crew. Forward is for cockpit crew.

Thank you for pointing this out. I was not aware that the 78J would be used on flights that make crew rest areas necessary.

questions wrote:

Jetty wrote:

questions wrote:

Actually I misstated the number of Economy Comfort seats.
- Two rows on the left = 6
- Five rows in the center section = 15
- Two rows on the right = 6
- Total Economy Comfort seats = 27
- Three rows of 9 seats would still be 27.

The total number of rows of Economy Comfort and Economy are:
- Left: 34
- Center: 34
- Right: 34

Your argument doesn't make sense. Economy Comfort row 15D-G could be swapped out for an Economy row on the left and Economy Comfort row 16D-G could be swapped out for an Economy row on the right.

Please clarify your POV... or my question still stands:

Why Did KL choose this awkward Economy Comfort configuration?

Start by counting the seats correctly: the side rows have 1 seat extra. Just looking at the pictures you can tell the length of the rows is different but not so different to fit one extra seat.

There is no room for switching economy seats to economy comfort seats at the side rows and the reverse wouldn’t clear enough space for an extra row of economy at the center rows thus this is the sensible option.

I can count.

Your argument still doesn’t make sense or is incomplete.

For reference:
https://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/prepare_for_travel/on_board/our_aircraft/boeing_787_10.htm

The configuration of rows in Economy Comfort and Economy is 3-3-3. The “side rows” do not “have 1 seat extra.” Do you mean an extra row of three seats?

I mean one extra seat in three rows at both sides to be exact.

The center section may have less rows of seats because there are 3 additional rows of Economy Comfort with greater seat pitch plus, according to the diagram, a larger lav, probably handicap compliant. Based on the virtual walkthrough the lav takes up less than half the depth of a seat.

Exactly. You now apparently agree that the rows aren't of equal length, which was my point to start with. Even with just a difference of half the depth of a seat it isn't economical to use the same seating configuration for all rows because it means you waste space.

So, to begin to answer my own question, to which you have been incredibly inarticulate in providing a POV while accusing me of being unable to count, it appears KL could not find a better way to configure the Economy Comfort section of the forward Y cabin due to the larger handicap accessible lav

This was exactly what I said and it wasn't hard to understand: the length of the rows is different. That is given the galley and lavatory configuration of course.

Given this, it appears KL could have configured the 787-10 with three rows of Economy Comfort seats by moving the center section forward as they did in the 787-9. Does anyone with analytical problem-solving skills know why they didn’t?

Different seating capacity means different capacity requirement for the galleys as well so you can't copy galley configuration from one plane model to another. All in all it's a puzzle to which I'm sure KLM found the most economical solution.

I’m surprised there’s no premium economy.

Great visual display. Thanks for sharing.

I dislike the colour scheme.

Nice, Too bad KLM no longer wants anyone to fly.

bravotango75 wrote:

Nice, Too bad KLM no longer wants anyone to fly.

LOL

What a gorgeous presentation of an aircraft type I have yet to get inside of! I wish more carriers did stuff like this. Taking a gander at the galleys it has always amazed me that they can fit all the food for all those passengers in such relatively few little rectangles. and gone are the days where there would be two flight attendant seats next to each other. I remember traveling on 747s back in the day where the crew could sit next to each other and talk.

It's a cramped 787. Not fun on a 10 hour flight in economy.

Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m sure I read that KLM was planning on using a new style WBC seat on the 78J. Or am I not looking close enough?

seemyseems wrote:

Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m sure I read that KLM was planning on using a new style WBC seat on the 78J. Or am I not looking close enough?

They are a different brand from those in the 787-9's but they look very similar.

No premium economy?

chunhimlai wrote:

No premium economy?

No they have economy comfort, more pitch and more recline. They are thinking about it but no decision had been made. I think it would be a good move if they did but we'll have to see.

MoKa777 wrote:

Flanker7 wrote:

MoKa777 wrote:

Wow! Awesome!

One thing, the aircraft appears to have an access to a cabin crew rest area at the rear.

That's correct that is for cabin crew. Forward is for cockpit crew.

Thank you for pointing this out. I was not aware that the 78J would be used on flights that make crew rest areas necessary.

They had announced AMS-SFO would get the 787-10 and it is 10:15hrs so that's one.

Great stuff, indeed.

questions wrote:

That's a fantastic virtual walk through!

A few questions:

1. The 787 cockpit has four windows. Is it any less restricted in viewing than other aircraft with more windows? Are there regulations that govern the minimum viewing area outside from the cockpit?

The 787 has great cockpit visibility. Less windows means less structure and more viewing area. The only drawback is that you can’t open the side window like in older aircraft.

2. This cockpit had two well outfitted jumpseats. Are these standard in the 787? Why are they needed or why is this design needed?

Most (if not all) widebody aircraft have two jump seats as standard. Mor often than not there are 3-4 pilots in the crew on long flights. You also need extra space for an instructor etc.


Cheers,

Pink.

no Premium Economy ? New plane new new class.

What is the purpose of these pseudo room diverters in Economy?

Economy looks incredibly cramped and uncomfortable. So glad Delta stuck with the A330/A350 instead.

Seanster59 wrote:

It's a cramped 787. Not fun on a 10 hour flight in economy.

Cramped is up to the carrier. Every KL long-haul aircraft is going to be cramped. They think this style fits their market. Compare it to ANA's 215-seat 787-9. https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/A ... 7-9_V2.php

thepinkmachine wrote:

Great stuff, indeed.

questions wrote:

That's a fantastic virtual walk through!

A few questions:

1. The 787 cockpit has four windows. Is it any less restricted in viewing than other aircraft with more windows? Are there regulations that govern the minimum viewing area outside from the cockpit?

The 787 has great cockpit visibility. Less windows means less structure and more viewing area. The only drawback is that you can’t open the side window like in older aircraft.

2. This cockpit had two well outfitted jumpseats. Are these standard in the 787? Why are they needed or why is this design needed?

Most (if not all) widebody aircraft have two jump seats as standard. Mor often than not there are 3-4 pilots in the crew on long flights. You also need extra space for an instructor etc.


Cheers,

Pink.

Thanks Pink.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Seanster59 wrote:

It's a cramped 787. Not fun on a 10 hour flight in economy.

Cramped is up to the carrier. Every KL long-haul aircraft is going to be cramped. They think this style fits their market. Compare it to ANA's 215-seat 787-9. https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/A ... 7-9_V2.php

V1 and V2 look nice. Sad to see 2-4-2 in Y gone but 34” pitch is generous. V3 (Domestic) does indeed look cramped but probably not bad if in fact it’s used on short haul flights.