RainerBoeing777
Topic Author
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Summer in SFO 2020

Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:50 pm

SFO continues to grow and strengthen in Europe, Norwegian moves its CDG and BCN routes from OAK to SFO, and Lufthansa becomes the airline with more capacity FRA-SFO operates with B747-8I and Munich with A380 and this new operators arrived as TAP Air Portugal and Air Italy

What are your next expectations for the summer at SFO? mine are: there is a big gap in Italy I would like to see United launching FCO / MXP, I would also like to see Iberia changing equipment the Airbus A330-300 is better for this route plus capacity and premium to compete with the A330neo TAP which is its most direct competition, SAS could start RNA-SFO and the A350 will arrive soon and one of the first routes will be CPH-SFO would seem good 3-4 frequencies with A340 from ARN-SFO, a route that I hope is VIE- SFO would be a good opportunity for OS to move from LAX to SFO even for United launching SFO-VIE would be perfect with Boeing 787-8

Operations in SFO summer 2020 (With some predictions)

London Heathrow (LHR) + London Gatwick (LGW)

United Airlines 2 daily (Boeing 777-300ER/-200ER)
British Airways 2 daily (Boeing 747-400/Airbus A380-800)*
*(Possibly the Boeing 747-400 flight will be changed with the new Boeing 777-300ER and Airbus A350-1000XWB with new cabins)
Virgin Atlantic 2 daily (Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner)*
*(The Airbus A340-600 will be removed this possibly will possibly be replaced with the Airbus A350-1000XWB or the other flight will be replaced with the same Boeing 787-9)
Norwegian 5 weekly frequencies (Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner)


Frankfurt (FRA)

Lufthansa 1 daily (Boeing 747-8I)
United 2 daily (Boeing 777-300ER/-200ER)

Paris (CDG)+ Paris (ORY)

Air France 2 daily (Airbus A380-800/Boeing 777-300ER)
United 1 daily (Boeing 777-200ER)
XL Airways 3 weekly frequencies (Airbus A330-200)
Norwegian 4 weekly frequencies (Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner)
French Bee 3 weekly frequencies (Airbus A350-900XWB)

Munich (MUC)

Lufthansa 1 daily (Airbus A380-800)
United 1 daily (Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner)

Zurich (ZRH)

Swiss 1 daily (Boeing 777-300ER)
United 1 daily (Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner)

Amsterdam (AMS)

KLM 12 weekly frequencies (Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner*)
*(with the departure of the Boeing 747, it may be completely replaced by the Boeing 787-10 or the service goes to mixed with Boeing 787-10 and Boeing 777-200ER / -300ER)
United 1 daily (Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner)

Copenhagen (CPH)

Scandinavian Airlines SAS 1 daily (Airbus A340-300)*
*(as they arrive the Airbus A350-900XWB this will replace the A340-300)

Istanbul (IST)

Turkish Airlines 1 daily (Boeing 777-300ER)

Dublin (DUB)

Aer Lingus 1 daily Airbus A330-300

Lisbon (LIS)

TAP Air Portugal 5 weekly frequencies (Airbus A330-900neo)

Barcelona (BCN)

LEVEL 3 weekly frequencies (Airbus A330-200)
Norwegian 3 weekly frequencies (Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner)

Helsinki (HEL)

Finnair 4 weekly frequencies (Airbus A330-300)

Madrid (MAD)

Iberia 3 weekly frequencies (Airbus A330-200)

Reykjavík–Keflavík (KEF)

Icelandair 4 weekly frequencies (Boeing 767-300ER)

Milan (MXP)

Air Italy 4 weekly frequencies (Airbus A330-200)

Manchester (MAN)

Thomas Cook Airlines 3 weekly frecuencies (Airbus A330-200)
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
B752OS
Posts: 1165
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Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:44 pm

Isn't SFO the 5th largest market in the US to/from Europe? I am surprised Iberia isn't running MAD-SFO year round - daily from May 1 - October 31 and then 3-4 weekly from November 1 - April 30. Same goes for TAP, they run LIS-SFO year round, but I am surprised it isn't daily year round.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25695
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:15 pm

There is not a "big gap" in Italy. The Bay Area has service to Milan (for now, I can't imagine Air Italy stays around for long) and Rome. That's excellent.

Though like most large U.S. cities these days, SFO is grossly over-served trans-Atlantic, and all airlines are fighting for a piece of a pie, so I'm sure growth will continue even though the market isn't there. So it will just cause fares to fall even more.

The bubble will burst - even NYC is overserved.

Every European airline thinks they need to fly to NY/LA/Miami/SF. They don't.
a.
 
x1234
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:23 pm

There's only sevice to Milan in Italy, not Rome which is the opposite of most US cities but Milan has more business traffic. I'd like to see AZ launch SFO-FCO in the summer (just like LAX). Also OS launch SFO-VIE. That's all the service I see coming to SFO.
 
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nikeson13
Posts: 221
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:35 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:43 pm

OS wont launch SFO for a few years, they need a new longhaul fleet to serve it properly. IIRC UA had problems on SFO-CDG with the 767, so going to VIE might also prove issues even though it is the right sized aircraft. The 777-200ER is probably too big for the route right now, and add in the lack of slack in the 12-strong longhaul fleet, it isn't happening for a while. Once LH gets them a new fleet of 787s/MOM/A330NEO/Whatever they decide, SFO will be ready to launch (mid 2020s). Plus they have a EU bloodbath at VIE with Level, WizzAir, and Eurowings giving them a few problems with low yields and record passenger traffic that they should be focusing on.

We probably won't see another route from UA to Europe for 2020, maybe something from Asia? UA should go year-round on ORD-FCO before a seasonal SFO-FCO, plus they only serve MXP from EWR, so no Italy from SFO for a while unless Air Italy stops service. I could see a few weekly seasonal on Alitalia.
Nikolas
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:14 pm

x1234 wrote:
There's only sevice to Milan in Italy, not Rome which is the opposite of most US cities but Milan has more business traffic. I'd like to see AZ launch SFO-FCO in the summer (just like LAX). Also OS launch SFO-VIE. That's all the service I see coming to SFO.


Norwegian flies OAK-FCO
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:29 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
Norwegian flies OAK-FCO

Which will move to SFO next year along with BCN.

SFO had a planespotting event on Thursday evening. There was a worker from the air service development office of SFO there. She was saying that the airport will likely add a European airline, an Asian airline, and a South American airline for next summer. You can take your picks on the European and Asian ones, but the South American airline seemed to be LATAM, which would be a logical add (well really resumption).
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B77E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
babastud
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:38 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:12 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
Norwegian flies OAK-FCO

Which will move to SFO next year along with BCN.

SFO had a planespotting event on Thursday evening. There was a worker from the air service development office of SFO there. She was saying that the airport will likely add a European airline, an Asian airline, and a South American airline for next summer. You can take your picks on the European and Asian ones, but the South American airline seemed to be LATAM, which would be a logical add (well really resumption).



Are you thinking CDG?. As of now Norwegian has there flight from OAK-FCO not SFO.
 
babastud
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:38 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:17 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
There is not a "big gap" in Italy. The Bay Area has service to Milan (for now, I can't imagine Air Italy stays around for long) and Rome. That's excellent.

Though like most large U.S. cities these days, SFO is grossly over-served trans-Atlantic, and all airlines are fighting for a piece of a pie, so I'm sure growth will continue even though the market isn't there. So it will just cause fares to fall even more.

The bubble will burst - even NYC is overserved.

Every European airline thinks they need to fly to NY/LA/Miami/SF. They don't.



The Bay Area is a very, very popular destination in the Summer for Euro's and vice versa. The demand is their! Rome would be a popular spot and I believe would do quite well in the summer. UA should open a seasonal on a 787-8.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5603
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:49 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
There was a worker from the air service development office of SFO there. She was saying that the airport will likely add a European airline, an Asian airline, and a South American airline for next summer.


Airports don't add airlines. Airlines choose to fly to airports. 'Likely' doesn't mean pilot bidding, a press release, or a flight available for sale in a GDS.
 
continental004
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:40 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
There is not a "big gap" in Italy. The Bay Area has service to Milan (for now, I can't imagine Air Italy stays around for long) and Rome. That's excellent.

Though like most large U.S. cities these days, SFO is grossly over-served trans-Atlantic, and all airlines are fighting for a piece of a pie, so I'm sure growth will continue even though the market isn't there. So it will just cause fares to fall even more.

The bubble will burst - even NYC is overserved.

Every European airline thinks they need to fly to NY/LA/Miami/SF. They don't.


And now fares are lower than they've ever been and more and more Americans are traveling to Europe as it's more affordable than ever, broadening their horizons and opening their minds.

You mad?
 
as739x
Posts: 5161
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:51 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
There was a worker from the air service development office of SFO there. She was saying that the airport will likely add a European airline, an Asian airline, and a South American airline for next summer.


I'd place a bet on that happening. SFO seems to be growing and will continue to burst at the seems, especially during the summer.

Airports don't add airlines. Airlines choose to fly to airports. 'Likely' doesn't mean pilot bidding, a press release, or a flight available for sale in a GDS.


Airports do go to other countries and try to sway airlines into fling to their airport. SFO does this frequently.

Fun story, my close friend who works for SFO, once sent a pic to his boss when a Qatari Princess was in San Francisco of their 748 parked at the Super Bay. He said " Wow, you work fast". His Boss happen to be in Doha at the time.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25695
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:20 pm

continental004 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
There is not a "big gap" in Italy. The Bay Area has service to Milan (for now, I can't imagine Air Italy stays around for long) and Rome. That's excellent.

Though like most large U.S. cities these days, SFO is grossly over-served trans-Atlantic, and all airlines are fighting for a piece of a pie, so I'm sure growth will continue even though the market isn't there. So it will just cause fares to fall even more.

The bubble will burst - even NYC is overserved.

Every European airline thinks they need to fly to NY/LA/Miami/SF. They don't.


And now fares are lower than they've ever been and more and more Americans are traveling to Europe as it's more affordable than ever, broadening their horizons and opening their minds.

You mad?


Why would I be mad? I just understand airline economics. You don’t, apparently.

It’s great to see all this service, but it’s not really sustainable. There’s doubts of how long Norwegian will be around. Did you see Norwegian is suspending 12 EU-US routes in October?
a.
 
ukoverlander
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 10:57 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:34 pm

How about UA flying SFO-Brussels with a 787-8? I've often thought that as two Star Alliance carriers this might make sense given Brussels Airlines international connections out of BRU. Any thoughts on that possibility?
 
dcajet
Posts: 4026
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:42 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
Norwegian flies OAK-FCO

Which will move to SFO next year along with BCN.

SFO had a planespotting event on Thursday evening. There was a worker from the air service development office of SFO there. She was saying that the airport will likely add a European airline, an Asian airline, and a South American airline for next summer. You can take your picks on the European and Asian ones, but the South American airline seemed to be LATAM, which would be a logical add (well really resumption).


CDG & BCN are being moved from OAK to SFO by Oct. 30, 2019 and will join the LGW service there. FCO, CPH, ARN & OSLO are remaining at OAK for the time being. That said, those flights are seasonal. Thus, Norwegian won't operate at OAK during the winter for the foreseeable future.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
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mooseofspruce
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:47 pm

ukoverlander wrote:
How about UA flying SFO-Brussels with a 787-8? I've often thought that as two Star Alliance carriers this might make sense given Brussels Airlines international connections out of BRU. Any thoughts on that possibility?

It is my understanding that SN (Brussels) is part of the transatlantic JV that UA has with LH (Lufthansa), which also includes LX (Swiss) and OS (Austrian) (though in the context of SFO, just LX). Thus, any transatlantic adds to BRU like SFO would have to go through UA and LH/LX/OS/SN, but so far they are choosing to utilize UA to add frequencies to MUC and ZRH during the summer instead for connections or otherwise. That said, BRU doesn't have a nonstop to LAX or IAH yet so an add like SFO would surprise me.
I saw a flock of Moosen! Many much moosen! Out in the woods, in the wood-es, in the woodsen!
 
EI121
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:14 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:51 pm

There are some rumours going around that Aer Lingus may increase SFO to 10 p/w in the peak summer months next year.
 
babastud
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:38 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:12 pm

mooseofspruce wrote:
ukoverlander wrote:
How about UA flying SFO-Brussels with a 787-8? I've often thought that as two Star Alliance carriers this might make sense given Brussels Airlines international connections out of BRU. Any thoughts on that possibility?

It is my understanding that SN (Brussels) is part of the transatlantic JV that UA has with LH (Lufthansa), which also includes LX (Swiss) and OS (Austrian) (though in the context of SFO, just LX). Thus, any transatlantic adds to BRU like SFO would have to go through UA and LH/LX/OS/SN, but so far they are choosing to utilize UA to add frequencies to MUC and ZRH during the summer instead for connections or otherwise. That said, BRU doesn't have a nonstop to LAX or IAH yet so an add like SFO would surprise me.


I also thought a SFO-BRU would do well. There seems to be a fair amount of business traffic, govt traffic, etc between the two places. I would hope that UA would maybe start something. In addition since it's the only non-stop to the west coast they could pick up a lot of transfer traffic from southern California. I like what UA has been doing in adding seasonal frequencies out of SFO especially to Europe. Does anyone have any numbers on how these new flights are going?
 
LondonXtreme
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:24 pm

I don't understand how come UA can't do year round SFO-MUC? Also as mentioned,SFO- BRU should do well with 789 or 789.

Anyway, SFO has plenty of flights to Europe now. What SFO actually needs is a nonstop service to South America.I would like to see LATAM resuming SFO-LIM, or Avianca launches SFO-BOG. Moreover, a nonstop service to GRU is a must, it could be done by UA.
 
UALifer
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:35 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:59 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
I don't understand how come UA can't do year round SFO-MUC? Also as mentioned,SFO- BRU should do well with 789 or 789.

Anyway, SFO has plenty of flights to Europe now. What SFO actually needs is a nonstop service to South America.I would like to see LATAM resuming SFO-LIM, or Avianca launches SFO-BOG. Moreover, a nonstop service to GRU is a must, it could be done by UA.


UA SFO-MUC is going year round this year.
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 479
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Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:40 pm

dcajet wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
Norwegian flies OAK-FCO

Which will move to SFO next year along with BCN.

SFO had a planespotting event on Thursday evening. There was a worker from the air service development office of SFO there. She was saying that the airport will likely add a European airline, an Asian airline, and a South American airline for next summer. You can take your picks on the European and Asian ones, but the South American airline seemed to be LATAM, which would be a logical add (well really resumption).


CDG & BCN are being moved from OAK to SFO by Oct. 30, 2019 and will join the LGW service there. FCO, CPH, ARN & OSLO are remaining at OAK for the time being. That said, those flights are seasonal. Thus, Norwegian won't operate at OAK during the winter for the foreseeable future.


Yup, I mixed up my airports. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if Norwegian ends up moving all of those over to SFO for next summer anyway.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B77E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
dcajet
Posts: 4026
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Summer in SFO 2020

Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:15 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
dcajet wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
Which will move to SFO next year along with BCN.

SFO had a planespotting event on Thursday evening. There was a worker from the air service development office of SFO there. She was saying that the airport will likely add a European airline, an Asian airline, and a South American airline for next summer. You can take your picks on the European and Asian ones, but the South American airline seemed to be LATAM, which would be a logical add (well really resumption).


CDG & BCN are being moved from OAK to SFO by Oct. 30, 2019 and will join the LGW service there. FCO, CPH, ARN & OSLO are remaining at OAK for the time being. That said, those flights are seasonal. Thus, Norwegian won't operate at OAK during the winter for the foreseeable future.


Yup, I mixed up my airports. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if Norwegian ends up moving all of those over to SFO for next summer anyway.


I would not be surprised, both for year round and seasonal operations. The airline says that moving the LGW flight from OAK to SFO has already paid dividends.

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/N ... 077892.php
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