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westgate
Posts: 157
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:28 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
What is the busiest European airport by International passenger numbers not served by US3?


That would definitely be the new IST airport. And as it's to the west of the Bosporus, it technically is in Europe. As it just opened there's no full year traffic figures as of yet, but the old Istanbul Atatürk airport had about 68 million pax last year.

Both DL and UA did however fly there not too long ago, from JFK and EWR respectively. DL dropped it in 2016 due to 'increased security concerns in Turkey, including a travel warning issued by the State Department, and weaker demand for air travel to this market'. UA dropped it in 2013 after they 'carefully considered the viability of the Istanbul-New York route and concluded that there is not sufficient demand in the market to sustain non-stop service', preferring instead to rely on Star Alliance partners such as LH and TK.
 
westgate
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:29 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
What is the busiest European airport by International passenger numbers not served by US3?


That would definitely be the new IST airport. And as it's to the west of the Bosporus, it technically is in Europe. As it just opened there's no full year traffic figures as of yet, but the old Istanbul Atatürk airport had about 68 million pax last year.

Both DL and UA did however fly there not too long ago, from JFK and EWR respectively. DL dropped it in 2016 due to 'increased security concerns in Turkey, including a travel warning issued by the State Department, and weaker demand for air travel to this market'. UA dropped it in 2013 after they 'carefully considered the viability of the Istanbul-New York route and concluded that there is not sufficient demand in the market to sustain non-stop service', preferring instead to rely on Star Alliance partners such as LH and TK to get their pax there.

And then after that :

LGW (London Gatwick) - 46 million pax per year
SVO (Moscow Sheremetyevo) - 45 mil pax
DME (Moscow Domodedova) - 32 mil pax
ORY (Paris Orly) - 33 mil pax
PMI (Palma de Majorca) - 29 mil pax
OSL (Oslo Gardemoen) - 28 mil pax
STN (London Stansted) - 27 mil pax
VIE (Vienna Schwechat) - 27 mil pax

LGW did of course have a lot of US carriers before the end of Bermuda II, when they all moved over to LHR. AA/DL/UA did all at one stage fly to one of the Moscow airports. DL flew to SVO from JFK for quite a long time but dropped it in 2017. AA had a short lived flight from ORD to DME and UA also a short lived IAD to DME. ORY did used to get US airlines but they switched over to CDG long ago, I know that AA and CO flew there in the early 90's. PMI is mostly just inter European beach/holiday traffic, so no American traffic there. OSL has had service from all 3 before, but all dropped, and STN did have a short lived flight from AA about 10 years ago.
Last edited by westgate on Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
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PW100
Posts: 4123
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Image

Image

Heathrow’s third runway is here in Amsterdam, says Schiphol airport

DL operates around 150 weekly rotations to Heathrow's Third Runway . . .
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
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bgm
Posts: 2442
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:12 pm

PW100 wrote:
Image

Image

Heathrow’s third runway is here in Amsterdam, says Schiphol airport

DL operates around 150 weekly rotations to Heathrow's Third Runway . . .


Well, to be fair the Polderbaan runway is closer to London than Schiphol... :duck:
Hires only the best people... lol
 
hohd
Posts: 922
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:14 pm

Since BA and AA are JV partners, for fair comparison, BA flights should be included since VS is also included.
 
Sightseer
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:30 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
What is the busiest European airport by International passenger numbers not served by US3?

Technically it's IST. If you want to be more pedantic and include only "fully European" cities the next airport on the list would be LGW.
 
jfern022
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:48 pm

N649DL wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
As we know, LHR is a OW hub. But, some *A members such as UA and AC still have more flights to LHR compare to other *A hub in Europe like FRA.

However, DL has far less daily departure from LHR than what AA and UA have. I know the close relationship between DL and AF/KL with JV, will we see DL adding more flight to LHR in next few years?


DL has already tried two very tough markets from LHR when the JV with VS were enacted in 2014 and those were EWR and PHL. They also tried LHR-MIA on a 764 back in like 2011 and that failed.

I think DL is best staying from hubs to LHR right now. AA operates RDU-LHR and should they'd ever drop that I'm sure DL would swoop in. But that's all I could really see at this point.


MIA-LHR was just sitting on a slot when acquired IG I believe as part of the AA/BA divestiture. Requirement was it had to be “new service”. Everyone knew it was going to be ATL’s second slot.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:24 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Seems Delta is pulling the A330 out of LHR and reverting to the smaller B767-400 from the end of the summer? What’s the rationale on that one?


Most of the A330s to LHR today are the A330-200 which seat 234 pax total; the refurbished 764s going to LHR starting this winter will seat 238 in total, so not necessarily smaller. Also, MSP-LHR and PDX-LHR now served by the 210-225 seat 767-300ER are also scheduled to be upgauged to the 238 seat 764.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:07 pm

johns624 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:

My recent observation on BA's SFO-LHR flight, more than 80% of passengers got off at LHR. I think even LHR is a OW hub, BA/AA don't rely on connecting, the majority traffic is between UK and USA.

Then you would be wrong. Where else would OW members connect onward into Europe. Maybe because you were on a BA flight, it was people going home while passengers on AA would mainly be outbound Americans.


Haven't they been using Iberia via MAD for more of the connecting opportunities to allow LHR flights to serve more of the local traffic.
 
george77300
Posts: 1131
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:30 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
What is the busiest European airport by International passenger numbers not served by US3?


Seeing as VIE has been mentioned in this thread I would imagine if that isn’t Number 1 it would be up there. Certainly much larger than some airports that have US3 service from one or the other.
 
westgate
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:17 pm

Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:58 pm

george77300 wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
What is the busiest European airport by International passenger numbers not served by US3?


Seeing as VIE has been mentioned in this thread I would imagine if that isn’t Number 1 it would be up there. Certainly much larger than some airports that have US3 service from one or the other.


See my other post above. Out of European airports not served by the US3, it ranks 9th in terms of passenger numbers for 2018, behind IST, LGW, SVO, DME, ORY, PMI, OSL and STN
 
runway23
Posts: 2335
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:36 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
What is the busiest European airport by International passenger numbers not served by US3?


IST, SVO, ORY, DME, PMI
 
IWMBH
Posts: 626
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:40 pm

hohd wrote:
Since BA and AA are JV partners, for fair comparison, BA flights should be included since VS is also included.


They call it a joint venture, but as far as I can find they don’t share equity in any form. While VS is for 49% owned by DL and for further 30% by AFKL, their bond is therefore much tighter and incomparable to the AA/BA tie-up.
 
winginit
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:43 pm

IWMBH wrote:
hohd wrote:
Since BA and AA are JV partners, for fair comparison, BA flights should be included since VS is also included.


They call it a joint venture, but as far as I can find they don’t share equity in any form. While VS is for 49% owned by DL and for further 30% by AFKL, their bond is therefore much tighter and incomparable to the AA/BA tie-up.


Does it matter if they share equity from a financial productivity perspective?

AA and BA operate a metal neutral, anti-trust immunized revenue sharing joint venture

DL and VS operate a metal neutral, anti-trust immunized profit sharing joint venture and DL also owns 49% of VS

When it comes to financial inputs, outputs, and results, I'm not sure the two are any different but I'm interested to hear your argument. In both cases whether you fly either of the partners the money goes into a pot and is distributed on the back end.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:52 pm

winginit wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
hohd wrote:
Since BA and AA are JV partners, for fair comparison, BA flights should be included since VS is also included.


They call it a joint venture, but as far as I can find they don’t share equity in any form. While VS is for 49% owned by DL and for further 30% by AFKL, their bond is therefore much tighter and incomparable to the AA/BA tie-up.


Does it matter if they share equity from a financial productivity perspective?

AA and BA operate a metal neutral, anti-trust immunized revenue sharing joint venture

DL and VS operate a metal neutral, anti-trust immunized profit sharing joint venture and DL also owns 49% of VS

When it comes to financial inputs, outputs, and results, I'm not sure the two are any different but I'm interested to hear your argument. In both cases whether you fly either of the partners the money goes into a pot and is distributed on the back end.


Well from a customer and financial perspective it doesn’t really matter. But with the deals mentioned above it makes more sense to me to mention them together because VS is practically a subsidiary of DL and AFKL.
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: Delta at LHR

Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:45 pm

theasianguy wrote:
questions wrote:
First I think we need some data. How many flights LHR-USA are flown by:
- AA
- DL
- DL+VS
- UA


AA: 21 daily: (4x JFK, 4x ORD, 4x DFW, 2x PHL, 2x CLT, 2x LAX, 1x MIA, 1x RDU, 1x PHX)
VS: 17 daily: (6x JFK, 2x BOS, 2x LAX, 2x SFO, 1x EWR, 1x IAD, 1x ATL, 1x LAS, 1x SEA)
UA: 17 daily: (5x EWR, 3x IAD, 3x ORD, 2x IAH, 2x SFO, 1x LAX, 1x DEN)
DL: 10 daily: (2x JFK, 2x DTW, 2x ATL, 1x BOS, 1x MSP, 1x SLC, 1x PDX)


Summer 2020 will now be (subject to change as AA have gained an EY slot)
AA: 21 daily: (4x JFK, 4x ORD, 4x DFW, 2x PHL, 2x CLT, 2x LAX, 1x MIA, 1x RDU, 1x PHX)
UA: 18 daily: (6x EWR, 3x IAD, 3x ORD, 2x IAH, 2x SFO, 1x LAX, 1x DEN)
VS: 17 daily: (5x JFK, 2x BOS, 2.5x LAX, 2x SFO, 1x EWR, 1x IAD, 1x ATL, 1x LAS, 1.5x SEA)
DL: 11 daily: (3x JFK, 2x DTW, 2x ATL, 1x BOS, 1x MSP, 1x SLC, 1x PDX)

AA 0 (but EY slot means probable growth)
UA +1 compared to S19 (EWR)
VS 0 (-1 JFK but +1 across LAX and SEA)
DL +1 compared to S19 (JFK)
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 688
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Re: Delta at LHR

Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:04 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
What is the busiest European airport by International passenger numbers not served by US3?

Larnaca maybe??
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 21834
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Delta at LHR

Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:25 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
As we know, LHR is a OW hub. But, some *A members such as UA and AC still have more flights to LHR compare to other *A hub in Europe like FRA.


London is the #1 world Global City, ranking above even NYC. There's an old joke that when a new country gains independence, no matter how poor, no matter how war-torn, the first task they have is to buy a 747 and fly it to London. So every US airline that offers transoceanic service is going to fly to London, especially given the linguistic and cultural kinship between the two countries.

However, DL has more service, I believe to LGW.
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LAX772LR
Posts: 13278
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Delta at LHR

Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:48 pm

DocLightning wrote:
However, DL has more service, I believe to LGW.

DL doesn't currently fly to LGW at all.

Though they're bringing back BOS-LGW, widely seen as a response to B6 offering LON.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jfk777
Posts: 7353
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Delta at LHR

Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:49 pm

DocLightning wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
As we know, LHR is a OW hub. But, some *A members such as UA and AC still have more flights to LHR compare to other *A hub in Europe like FRA.


London is the #1 world Global City, ranking above even NYC. There's an old joke that when a new country gains independence, no matter how poor, no matter how war-torn, the first task they have is to buy a 747 and fly it to London. So every US airline that offers transoceanic service is going to fly to London, especially given the linguistic and cultural kinship between the two countries.

However, DL has more service, I believe to LGW.


Delta moved all their Gatwick operations to LHR as soon as they could. Next summer they are returning to LGW or Virgin is.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:50 am

SeanM1997 wrote:
theasianguy wrote:
questions wrote:
First I think we need some data. How many flights LHR-USA are flown by:
- AA
- DL
- DL+VS
- UA


AA: 21 daily: (4x JFK, 4x ORD, 4x DFW, 2x PHL, 2x CLT, 2x LAX, 1x MIA, 1x RDU, 1x PHX)
VS: 17 daily: (6x JFK, 2x BOS, 2x LAX, 2x SFO, 1x EWR, 1x IAD, 1x ATL, 1x LAS, 1x SEA)
UA: 17 daily: (5x EWR, 3x IAD, 3x ORD, 2x IAH, 2x SFO, 1x LAX, 1x DEN)
DL: 10 daily: (2x JFK, 2x DTW, 2x ATL, 1x BOS, 1x MSP, 1x SLC, 1x PDX)


Summer 2020 will now be (subject to change as AA have gained an EY slot)
AA: 21 daily: (4x JFK, 4x ORD, 4x DFW, 2x PHL, 2x CLT, 2x LAX, 1x MIA, 1x RDU, 1x PHX)
UA: 18 daily: (6x EWR, 3x IAD, 3x ORD, 2x IAH, 2x SFO, 1x LAX, 1x DEN)
VS: 17 daily: (5x JFK, 2x BOS, 2.5x LAX, 2x SFO, 1x EWR, 1x IAD, 1x ATL, 1x LAS, 1.5x SEA)
DL: 11 daily: (3x JFK, 2x DTW, 2x ATL, 1x BOS, 1x MSP, 1x SLC, 1x PDX)

AA 0 (but EY slot means probable growth)
UA +1 compared to S19 (EWR)
VS 0 (-1 JFK but +1 across LAX and SEA)
DL +1 compared to S19 (JFK)


Summer 2020, VS, LHR-MIA? Any others missing?

While not to the scale and market share of AA+BA, DL+VS is impressive.
 
Cunard
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Re: Delta at LHR

Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:13 am

Sightseer wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
What is the busiest European airport by International passenger numbers not served by US3?

Technically it's IST. If you want to be more pedantic and include only "fully European" cities the next airport on the list would be LGW.


IST is a good example and although it can be debated it's probably correct that it's the busiest European airport by international passenger numbers not served by the US3.

If we're not including IST which I think we should considering that the airport is situated on the European side of Turkey there is currently another airport that's not served by the US3.

If we're not including IST.

London Stansted Airport with 28 million passengers is Europe's busiest airport by international passenger numbers not currently served by the US3.

In the past London Stansted Airport has seen service by American Airlines from Chicago and New York JFK as well as Continental Airlines from Newark Airport.

London Gatwick Airport at 46 million passengers is Europe's busiest airport by international passenger numbers that's not currently served by the US3 although this is set to be changed when Delta resumes service at London's second airport on the 22 May 2020 with a daily flight from Boston with a B757.

Delta last served London Gatwick Airport in 2012 when it moved it's final flight from Atlanta to London's second airport to London Heathrow Airport in October of that year. Bermuda II being abolished from the end of the IATA winter season in March 2008. Delta first gained access to London Heathrow Airport at the beginning of the IATA summer season at the end of March 2008.
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