solracfunk14
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:54 pm

airbazar wrote:
BBDFlyer wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:

Why does north-south flying reduce utilization?

For carriers that rely on connecting traffic, a flight departing the US for S.America departs in the evening to capture connections.

It has nothing to do with connections.
TAP, the largest foreign carrier in Brazil does not operate red-eyes in both directions save for 1 route. BA, KLM, AF, are some airlines also operating day time flight to/from Brazil. And no it's not just European carriers. LATAM operates day time flights between the U.S. and Brazil.
U.S. carriers have connecting banks in the morning and in the evening so it's not about the connections. The belief is that premium passengers, those who can afford to pay for lie flat seats, prefer to fly red-eyes. So the airline make up for the time the aircraft is parked during the day.

To answer the OP's question, no I don't think eliminating visas will increase traffic. Like it or not crime rate in Brazil is high regardless of one's personal experience. Petty crime especially is rampant. There's a reason why the majority of traffic between U.S. and Brazil originates in Brazil. So with that in mind, increased demand will come from a stronger economy in Brazil and increased competition driving down fares.


Actually it's more about maintenance and parking, same for Argentina if I'm not mistaken. Parking here and employees are way cheaper than US. AA just opened a huge hangar in GRU that can take 2 787 Dreamliners inside with doors closed, it's bigger than the LATAM hangar right next to their door (they share some facilities and tarmac).
 
Galwayman
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:55 pm

My friends from NYC are joining me in Rio over New Years and their airfares in y are about 50 % more than mine in business class from London ... was shocked at how expensive their airfares were .

I can actually get the same airline and flights as them if I fly delta in Y from London via Amsterdam via NYC and pay 70 % less than them
 
solracfunk14
Posts: 49
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:59 pm

And about violence in Rio, I don't go there anymore (unless if I drive by car to be with my gun which I got legally). It's safe? yes at some point, but you don't want to travel a place to relax and enjoy and in the sametime be worried to not be robbed.

For instance: Azul, GOL and LATAM (and Avianca used to) have crew bases at both GIG and SDU. By far it's the most request bases to be transffered out, neither pilots or flight attendants like to live there since the freeway to GIG airport called the Red Line (Linha Vermelha) it's dangerous and almost every month you can see a gunfight that closes the freeway.

GIG have 3 terminals, one which is totally a desert. IAH-GIG route still because it's a "oil route", both cities have great oil companies and are the gateway to the offshore exploration in the nearby basins.
 
VC10er
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:12 pm

The most accurate thing I’ve read so far regarding Brazil is “keep your wits about where you are at all times”. Although it has never happened to me, the VAST, VAST majority of tourist crime is just “give me your money/watch etc!”- and DO IT immediately. Also, keep at least $100 Reis on you so they are happy and will just run away. I’m not trying to downplay the trauma of such a situation, but these muggers are often kids and THEY HAVE NO DESIRE TO KILL YOU OR HURT YOU. They are usually kids who live in terrible poverty, and they have little to no hope of advancement (unless they become soccer stars) yet right there in front of them are sparkling modern skyscrapers, apartment buildings and swanky malls, or guests from hotels on the beach. It’s the horrible inequity is the true crime.
My ex girlfriend from when I was 20 lives in a bubble. I love her dearly but, wow, is she is shockingly NOT uneducated! She will believe anything she’s told- mostly if it’s BAD stuff and thrives on “fake news” She lives in semi rural Florida. I live in NYC and she firmly believes that NYC is a EXTREMELY dangerous city and worries about me getting killed. No matter what I say. She knows I fly a lot, she calls me after every plane crash crying. To her, the 2 MAX crashes are positive proof that flying is very dangerous.
However, mass shootings in the USA is not indicative of an issue in American society? My point is: behind every fact is a stat or a complex context that’s lost on those who don’t know better or are more curious. Brazil has many true horror stories from tourists and they are repeated for decades vs a the thousands of times people have taken a schooner to one of 1000 islands off the coast of Rio and saw 2 Tucanos it the trees above, or visited the palaces of the Portuguese Royal family., etc x 1000!
So, don’t miss out on not seeing the wonders of Brazil. Send me a message and I can help!
Be sure to take an all day schooner ride to desolate beaches from Paraty.
As for airlines, I have not flown LATAM long haul, how is it on a new aircraft?
And for those of us old enough to remember, during their heyday, nothing combined sizzle and glamour more than a VARIG 747 flying to Rio- over the top everything!
LONG ago I used miles for First Class. One of the VARIG customer service ladies walked me from the lounge to my seat holding my hand the entire way, and THEN kissed me on the cheek and wished me a wonderful flight as others fussed over me and my carry on. I’ll never forget that experience, today there would be a lawsuit!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
VC10er
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:21 pm

Galwayman wrote:
My friends from NYC are joining me in Rio over New Years and their airfares in y are about 50 % more than mine in business class from London ... was shocked at how expensive their airfares were .

I can actually get the same airline and flights as them if I fly delta in Y from London via Amsterdam via NYC and pay 70 % less than them


Are there many international LCC’s from Europe to Rio? That might impact fares. But, roughly 15 years ago, I flew 1 way, VARIG business from Frankfurt to Rio on a fairly new 772. It was $10,000!!! Obviously the client was paying for it, but it was a packed flight!

Lucky you. NYE in Rio is a memory for a lifetime! (In a good way) - where are you staying?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
dcajet
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:57 pm

Norwegian is the only true low cost flying to GIG. I don't count Edelweiss as a low cost, as it isn't.

Rio has been unsafe for decades now - since the 80s for sure. It has just become worse over time. Sao Paulo seems a tad better, but it is not a place where I'd let my guard down either. It has not happened to me but colleagues of mine report of being robbed at gun point at a restaurant in the Jardins area of the city. All the restaurant patrons, rather. The crooks take everything of value they can get their hands on, such as phones, watches, money, jewelry, etc., before leaving as fast as they got there.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
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ojjunior
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:30 pm

Try to walk alone in cities like Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam San Francisco, Cape Town, anywhere in SE Asia after hours and you gonna get the same risks than in Brazil.
Felt unsafe in Europe and in SE Asia lots of times.
Suburbs are suburbs everywhere.
If you travel overseas to visit suburbs you might see yourself in trouble anywhere in the world.
And yes, that's what the news show to all of us.
I'm pretty sure airlines don't rely on the news or blogs to decide to open or close route A or B.
 
BBDFlyer
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:40 am

solracfunk14 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
BBDFlyer wrote:
For carriers that rely on connecting traffic, a flight departing the US for S.America departs in the evening to capture connections.

It has nothing to do with connections.
TAP, the largest foreign carrier in Brazil does not operate red-eyes in both directions save for 1 route. BA, KLM, AF, are some airlines also operating day time flight to/from Brazil. And no it's not just European carriers. LATAM operates day time flights between the U.S. and Brazil.
U.S. carriers have connecting banks in the morning and in the evening so it's not about the connections. The belief is that premium passengers, those who can afford to pay for lie flat seats, prefer to fly red-eyes. So the airline make up for the time the aircraft is parked during the day.

To answer the OP's question, no I don't think eliminating visas will increase traffic. Like it or not crime rate in Brazil is high regardless of one's personal experience. Petty crime especially is rampant. There's a reason why the majority of traffic between U.S. and Brazil originates in Brazil. So with that in mind, increased demand will come from a stronger economy in Brazil and increased competition driving down fares.


Actually it's more about maintenance and parking, same for Argentina if I'm not mistaken. Parking here and employees are way cheaper than US. AA just opened a huge hangar in GRU that can take 2 787 Dreamliners inside with doors closed, it's bigger than the LATAM hangar right next to their door (they share some facilities and tarmac).

Yes, they take advantage of the down time to do maintenance at a lower cost. And yes, the long sit times down south are due to connections for the banks.
 
VC10er
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:05 am

dcajet wrote:
Norwegian is the only true low cost flying to GIG. I don't count Edelweiss as a low cost, as it isn't.

Rio has been unsafe for decades now - since the 80s for sure. It has just become worse over time. Sao Paulo seems a tad better, but it is not a place where I'd let my guard down either. It has not happened to me but colleagues of mine report of being robbed at gun point at a restaurant in the Jardins area of the city. All the restaurant patrons, rather. The crooks take everything of value they can get their hands on, such as phones, watches, money, jewelry, etc., before leaving as fast as they got there.


Yes, plenty of horror stories. Not many know more than I do. Sometimes Rio is more violent than São Paulo, but sometimes São Paulo can be much worse. There are statistics and there is hyperbole.
However, try to explain to a Brazilian the mass shootings in the USA, from Columbine to Sandy Hook to the Pulse disco to the shocking Charlestown Church shootings and then try and explain why “The United States of America”- a country that most Brazilians truly admire does absolutely nothing about them.
I grew up in The Bronx in the 60’s and 70s when NYC was bankrupt, filthy and extremely dangerous. I know on a very different level what it’s like to fear a night out to dinner. Having good “Spidy Sense” helps!

I am not saying that the story of 2 German tourists who landed at GIG got in a taxi and were found shot dead in a field is not true. But people talk about that today and say “stay away from Rio” - although that tragic story is 25 years old.
But, there is also not hyperbole to say that at peek season, all the “attractions” (for which there are very many) in Rio are so packed and crazy you wouldn’t find me near one because of the hordes of tourists.
GRU, (and to a lesser degree GIG) is one of the best plane spotting airports in the world. Air France, BA, and Lufthansa 747s, Asian, Middle Eastern airlines, Air Canada, all in brand new tech aircraft. And a whole bunch of AA, DL and UA 777s and 767s- aside from the huge fleets of LATAM, GOL, Avianca, Azul and many more.

Yes, busses and restaurants can be raided by crooks looking to steal your money once in a blue- but I rather be in a raided restaurant in São Paulo and robbed than mowed down in a restaurant in USA (also very rare, but true). And, our stories in the USA are world famous and given their frequency plus the HYPE, and certainly no action taken, I know people who are terrified of the USA.
My advice is: when enjoying yourself in Brazil, especially Rio (the city I know best) is dress VERY casually (flashing gold is stupid!) and go to Lapa at night for dinner for an AWESOME night. It’s super crowded, with outdoor cafes spilling into the streets, pick any place and enjoy the live music and BBQ and caipirinhas! THE BEST! Then take an Uber back to your hotel. Brazil is in the top 3 Uber countries and is very safe!
And as an aviation enthusiast, it’s not far to visit Santos Dumont’s preserved house, outside Rio in a beautiful town.
If you’re gay and in Rio (or straight) my advice is sun yourself near or on the gay beach in Ipanema- probably the safest place you could be. And if you go out at night, you’ll want to go to “The Week”- an amazing gay club! Just take an Uber or a real Rio taxi. (Yellowy-Green with a blue stripe) and says “Transcotoor” - R
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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acreinholz
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:05 pm

Game changers for the USA/BRAZIL routes will be the Open Skies Treaty/100% foreign capital airlines in action and the A321XLR.

Simply because of a few things:

More than 200 million people live in Brazil.

In comparison, Brazil is as large as the continental USA (exclude Alaska).

27 states.

Fly the A321 to Brazil, it can fly to BSB, FOR, REC, SSA, CNF, GRU, GIG or VCP.

From the point of entry, open skies treaty and foreign airlines installed will allow regular domestic flying within Brazil.

That means, Flights with less passenger capacity flying to and from Brazil to less demanded destinations and following to other airports with domestic passengers included.

That means, aircrafts will no longer be underutilized on the ground waiting for the redeye return flight.

For example, MIA/SSA/GRU/POA/GRU/SSA/MIA using the A321.

Sure, one can say the demand will never be as large as a Brazilian Airline on the domestic routes, but if it covers costs and allow the international flight to be viable, it makes sense.

Brazil is a large country and a Hub and Spoke model is complex. Using smaller aircrafts as the A321 will make perfect sense.
[threeid][/threeid]A319, A320 A321 A330 A340 B727 B737 B747 B757 B767 B777 DC9 DC10 MD88 MD11 ATR42 ATR72 EMB E175 E190 E195 F100 CRJ700
RG VP KK JJ UA DL AA NW TR AR MJ LH BA AF AL AU AD T4 AZ SC CM G3 FF TW EK O6 TK

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lavalampluva
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:48 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
Delta resume GRU flight from DTW and adding MSP-GRU or LAX-GRU?

Most likely DL could offer day-time GRU-ATL and ATL-GRU a couple of days per week in high season to allow connections @ ATL. Other than that DTW-GRU or others highly unlikely..


DTW-GRU started out, a number of years ago, as daily and slowing withered away to nothing. I'd be surprised if DL tried that one again, and most likely they won't have any non-stop from GRU passed ATL.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:28 pm

Great topic and discussion. I am from the United States but married to a Brazilian lady from a city named Campinas so I travel to Brazil on a regular basis. In 30 years I have not had one issue with crime in Brazil as I travel with at least one other person when going out at night and avoid bad areas in Campinas and other cities. Being careful and alert is really the key to avoid becoming a crime victim in Brazil.

Unfortunately Brazil is not a big destination for people in the United States as it is a long ways to fly for most of the population, there are many vacation alternatives in the Caribbean, Hawaii and Europe and English is not widely spoke in Brazil.
 
dcajet
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:25 pm

VC10er wrote:


So I do have a question for someone who knows: can an A320XLR make NYC/GRU-GIG?


Airbus advertises the A321XLR max range at 4,700nm. So in theory, it should be able to fly from both cities to JFK. And ever from further south, (EZE).
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
VC10er
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:30 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Great topic and discussion. I am from the United States but married to a Brazilian lady from a city named Campinas so I travel to Brazil on a regular basis. In 30 years I have not had one issue with crime in Brazil as I travel with at least one other person when going out at night and avoid bad areas in Campinas and other cities. Being careful and alert is really the key to avoid becoming a crime victim in Brazil.

Unfortunately Brazil is not a big destination for people in the United States as it is a long ways to fly for most of the population, there are many vacation alternatives in the Caribbean, Hawaii and Europe and English is not widely spoke in Brazil.


Parabens! 30 years! I don’t know where you live, but I hope Azul starts a nonstop! (Isn’t Campinas close to VCP?)

Brazil is one of the world’s best kept secrets, and tourism could bring billions to the GDP. If access to Brazil can be made easier- coupled by a large, well done campaign, people will fly the additional hours.
When I’ve had visitors stay at our apartment in Copacabana, I’d do my best to squeeze in enough of everything in a week. In every case, my “gringo” friends said “OMG, I’ve missed all of this for so long out of fear!” Each one of them have returned- some more than once, and carefully plotted their trips to see places like Trancoso or Amazonia.
Nobody has cracked it yet. I had high hopes after the Olympics (and Rio did indeed do a spectacular job) but it still didn’t provide enough lift because of the power of fear.

The one group who have found a new “other place” vs 1995 is the LGBTQ community. Twenty years ago I was thrilled to see nobody I knew from NYC. Now Rio is like South Beach in the 1990’s.
It’s one reason why I always recommend to my straight friends to park themselves near the gay beach. It’s crowded but safe. And on Rua Farme de Amoedo and surrounding streets are some great bar/restaurants after beach places to go.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
caribny
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:53 pm

dcajet wrote:
ntroduce new nonstop to GRU from SFO?
Will B6 begin service to Brazil after receiving A321LR?


The quick answer to your question is no. Until Brazil tackles the safety & violence problem it currently has, no amount of visa dropping will make the tourism needle move in any significant way. Besides, Americans have the Caribbean, Mexico and Hawaii closer to them - with world class resorts and not requiring an 8-10 hour flight in most cases.

That said, the A321XLR will certainly be a game changer for routes that have been tried and were not successful with the 767. But that is still a few years down the road.[/quote]


While safety is a real problem constraining travel to Brazil, as is the long flight, Brazil doesnt compete with Mexico and the Caribbean. Its popular destinations are urban, with urban attractions. People dont go to Brazil for the beach. I cannot think of any destination in Mexico/Caribbean which are equivalent to Rio or Salvador.

When Brazil tackles its crime problem more Americans will visit. Until they do many who would love to travel there will chose elsewhere.
 
caribny
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:04 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
[d. Quite a lot of them don't even have a passport. How can you expect them to know the big picture.



A lot of Europeans are very crime conscious which is why the resorts in the DR are all inclusive.

Let me ask you a question. How far can one get from London and still remain in the UK? Do you know that NYC is almost as far away from LA than it is from Madrid? The USA has so much to offer WITHIN its boundaries that there is less of a need to travel outside.

Also this assumption as to who is "narrow minded" is why the UK has BREXIT. Urban elites need to be less lofty in their views of others, especially as their "broadmindedness" is very shallow. London is as mired with ethnic inequality as anywhere. And that is on top of class inequality. I bet that this isnt an issue that "broadminded" New Yorkers or Londoners wish to debate and I know because I live in NYC.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:41 pm

VC10er wrote:
Parabens! 30 years! I don’t know where you live, but I hope Azul starts a nonstop! (Isn’t Campinas close to VCP?)


In fact VCP is located within Campinas city limits which is about 1h30 (70mi approx) driving from downtown São Paulo and GRU airport as well.
 
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PRGEC
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:27 pm

solracfunk14 wrote:
"It’s the horrible inequity is the true crime." okay, you don't know my homecountry gringo.

Inequity have been going on a low for many years between 2006 and 2013, and still the crime rate went way up.

Let's go back to talk about aviation.


I'm sorry but have you ever read statistics about it? Violence had a boom in Brazil within the 80s and 90s when inequality grew wildly - in Rio during the Brizola era - and had a valley around 2008-2009 then the crisis started showing its wings and they once again lost control.

Just an addendum: NY, for instance, is far from being a safe city - I got under a robbery attempt at daylight in 6th Av. x 30th St. - the people are far from being polite - I was pushed from the walkways many many times and people didn't want to help me at all - and the city is so so dirty like I have never seem in average places in Brazil. All of this does not affect the fame of this wonderful city, why? Because it's first world, simply. Mainly americans have a huge misperception about 3rd world countries which turns out to be a huge prejudice and the Brazilian governement can't deal with it - what do they do right, uh?

It is also funny to see argentinians seeting Brazil on fire when they can't even take care of pickpocketings in the subway of Buenos Aires. Never knew a single person who wasn't robbed there.
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LAXdude1023
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:36 pm

PRGEC wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
"It’s the horrible inequity is the true crime." okay, you don't know my homecountry gringo.

Inequity have been going on a low for many years between 2006 and 2013, and still the crime rate went way up.

Let's go back to talk about aviation.


I'm sorry but have you ever read statistics about it? Violence had a boom in Brazil within the 80s and 90s when inequality grew wildly - in Rio during the Brizola era - and had a valley around 2008-2009 then the crisis started showing its wings and they once again lost control.

Just an addendum: NY, for instance, is far from being a safe city - I got under a robbery attempt at daylight in 6th Av. x 30th St. - the people are far from being polite - I was pushed from the walkways many many times and people didn't want to help me at all - and the city is so so dirty like I have never seem in average places in Brazil. All of this does not affect the fame of this wonderful city, why? Because it's first world, simply. Mainly americans have a huge misperception about 3rd world countries which turns out to be a huge prejudice and the Brazilian governement can't deal with it - what do they do right, uh?

It is also funny to see argentinians seeting Brazil on fire when they can't even take care of pickpocketings in the subway of Buenos Aires. Never knew a single person who wasn't robbed there.


I care only for statistics. Statistics say that Argentina and NYC are relatively safe and that Brazil is much more dangerous.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
geoshina
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:23 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
PRGEC wrote:
solracfunk14 wrote:
"It’s the horrible inequity is the true crime." okay, you don't know my homecountry gringo.

Inequity have been going on a low for many years between 2006 and 2013, and still the crime rate went way up.

Let's go back to talk about aviation.


I'm sorry but have you ever read statistics about it? Violence had a boom in Brazil within the 80s and 90s when inequality grew wildly - in Rio during the Brizola era - and had a valley around 2008-2009 then the crisis started showing its wings and they once again lost control.

Just an addendum: NY, for instance, is far from being a safe city - I got under a robbery attempt at daylight in 6th Av. x 30th St. - the people are far from being polite - I was pushed from the walkways many many times and people didn't want to help me at all - and the city is so so dirty like I have never seem in average places in Brazil. All of this does not affect the fame of this wonderful city, why? Because it's first world, simply. Mainly americans have a huge misperception about 3rd world countries which turns out to be a huge prejudice and the Brazilian governement can't deal with it - what do they do right, uh?

It is also funny to see argentinians seeting Brazil on fire when they can't even take care of pickpocketings in the subway of Buenos Aires. Never knew a single person who wasn't robbed there.


I care only for statistics. Statistics say that Argentina and NYC are relatively safe and that Brazil is much more dangerous.


Well.. I bet the chances of you getting shot at a school or shopping mall or a nightclub are higher in the US , whereas pickpocketing may be higher in Brazil. Most of the crimes involving murder in Brazil have something to do with drug traffic, militia groups and these kind of shady / illegal activities, which I think are way way way higher in Brazil.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:30 pm

geoshina wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
PRGEC wrote:

I'm sorry but have you ever read statistics about it? Violence had a boom in Brazil within the 80s and 90s when inequality grew wildly - in Rio during the Brizola era - and had a valley around 2008-2009 then the crisis started showing its wings and they once again lost control.

Just an addendum: NY, for instance, is far from being a safe city - I got under a robbery attempt at daylight in 6th Av. x 30th St. - the people are far from being polite - I was pushed from the walkways many many times and people didn't want to help me at all - and the city is so so dirty like I have never seem in average places in Brazil. All of this does not affect the fame of this wonderful city, why? Because it's first world, simply. Mainly americans have a huge misperception about 3rd world countries which turns out to be a huge prejudice and the Brazilian governement can't deal with it - what do they do right, uh?

It is also funny to see argentinians seeting Brazil on fire when they can't even take care of pickpocketings in the subway of Buenos Aires. Never knew a single person who wasn't robbed there.


I care only for statistics. Statistics say that Argentina and NYC are relatively safe and that Brazil is much more dangerous.


Well.. I bet the chances of you getting shot at a school or shopping mall or a nightclub are higher in the US , whereas pickpocketing may be higher in Brazil. Most of the crimes involving murder in Brazil have something to do with drug traffic, militia groups and these kind of shady / illegal activities, which I think are way way way higher in Brazil.


Getting shot at school, probably so. Nightclubs, probably not. Brazil has had quite a few nightclub murders.

Lets not make false equivalences here. In Brazil, over 66,000 people were murdered in 2018 vs. around 17,000 for the US and Brazil has far fewer people. Both numbers are appalling there is no arguing that, but one is still far worse than the other.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
solracfunk14
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:51 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
geoshina wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

I care only for statistics. Statistics say that Argentina and NYC are relatively safe and that Brazil is much more dangerous.


Well.. I bet the chances of you getting shot at a school or shopping mall or a nightclub are higher in the US , whereas pickpocketing may be higher in Brazil. Most of the crimes involving murder in Brazil have something to do with drug traffic, militia groups and these kind of shady / illegal activities, which I think are way way way higher in Brazil.


Getting shot at school, probably so. Nightclubs, probably not. Brazil has had quite a few nightclub murders.

Lets not make false equivalences here. In Brazil, over 66,000 people were murdered in 2018 vs. around 17,000 for the US and Brazil has far fewer people. Both numbers are appalling there is no arguing that, but one is still far worse than the other.


Exactly! If the perception of crime change from location from location neither inside of US or Brazil, the numbers are there. For instance two friends got robbed this week: my ex during a concert on a park, and a friend from argentina in Sao Paulo. For instance for me: 24 years of living in Brazil, 4 in USA (WMU Aviation grad here #GoBroncos), never had a single security issue or problem in Michigan.

But I truly don't see so much people from US coming here because the Caribbean like our friend said above. It's cheaper, closer and more english spoken. Same thing why brazilians rather go to Buenos Aires or Santiago than Bogotá or Lima.
 
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UPlog
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:58 pm

Things are getting worse in Brazil. My company now provides armed guards on our crew bus after two bus robberies recent times. One was against United where a crew member was injured.

I am not aware of any city globally where my airline operates that we must have armed escorts between the airport and hotel other than Brazil.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:15 pm

While you discuss, here's a list of current US services from GRU:

MIA,MCO,JFK,EWR,BOS,ATL,ORD,IAH,DFW,IAD,LAS,LAX.
If you add VCP (São Paulo state as well) then also FLL.
Not all of them daily but all nonstop.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2233
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:53 pm

VC10er wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Great topic and discussion. I am from the United States but married to a Brazilian lady from a city named Campinas so I travel to Brazil on a regular basis. In 30 years I have not had one issue with crime in Brazil as I travel with at least one other person when going out at night and avoid bad areas in Campinas and other cities. Being careful and alert is really the key to avoid becoming a crime victim in Brazil.

Unfortunately Brazil is not a big destination for people in the United States as it is a long ways to fly for most of the population, there are many vacation alternatives in the Caribbean, Hawaii and Europe and English is not widely spoke in Brazil.


Parabens! 30 years! I don’t know where you live, but I hope Azul starts a nonstop! (Isn’t Campinas close to VCP?)

Brazil is one of the world’s best kept secrets, and tourism could bring billions to the GDP. If access to Brazil can be made easier- coupled by a large, well done campaign, people will fly the additional hours.
When I’ve had visitors stay at our apartment in Copacabana, I’d do my best to squeeze in enough of everything in a week. In every case, my “gringo” friends said “OMG, I’ve missed all of this for so long out of fear!” Each one of them have returned- some more than once, and carefully plotted their trips to see places like Trancoso or Amazonia.
Nobody has cracked it yet. I had high hopes after the Olympics (and Rio did indeed do a spectacular job) but it still didn’t provide enough lift because of the power of fear.

Thank you. I flew on Azul last May for the first time from Fort Lauderdale to Campinas and the service was great! Previously I flew on American Airlines from MIA to Sao Paulo but no more as Azul is far better plus the airport is very close to my in-law's house.

The one group who have found a new “other place” vs 1995 is the LGBTQ community. Twenty years ago I was thrilled to see nobody I knew from NYC. Now Rio is like South Beach in the 1990’s.
It’s one reason why I always recommend to my straight friends to park themselves near the gay beach. It’s crowded but safe. And on Rua Farme de Amoedo and surrounding streets are some great bar/restaurants after beach places to go.
 
Planes4you
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:37 pm

I love how no one is correcting OP on DFW-GIG which failed twice in the past and the most recent failure was a year ago…
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5873
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:47 pm

PRGEC wrote:
VC10er wrote:
PRGEC wrote:

I'm sorry but have you ever read statistics about it? Violence had a boom in Brazil within the 80s and 90s when inequality grew wildly - in Rio during the Brizola era - and had a valley around 2008-2009 then the crisis started showing its wings and they once again lost control.

Just an addendum: NY, for instance, is far from being a safe city - I got under a robbery attempt at daylight in 6th Av. x 30th St. - the people are far from being polite - I was pushed from the walkways many many times and people didn't want to help me at all - and the city is so so dirty like I have never seem in average places in Brazil. All of this does not affect the fame of this wonderful city, why? Because it's first world, simply. Mainly americans have a huge misperception about 3rd world countries which turns out to be a huge prejudice and the Brazilian governement can't deal with it - what do they do right, uh?

It is also funny to see argentinians seeting Brazil on fire when they can't even take care of pickpocketings in the subway of Buenos Aires. Never knew a single person who wasn't robbed there.


I am currently rubbing my eyes at what I just read? Help me, because I am not sure about the intent or point of your "addendum" - "NY, for instance is far from being a safe city" then you site a single incident that happened you had in NYC. People not being polite? The city is so dirty" (??? where you here in 1977?)- Question, I do not want to take your comment the wrong way (it is very difficult to convey sarcasm, or nuance) Is this NYC example an attempt to point out that one incident and a old silly reputations like "the British are stuffy and hate Americans" and the "Swiss people lead boring and ridged lives" lead to absurd prejudices?
New York has been among the safest very large cities in the world since Police Chief Bratton coined "zero tolerance" (NOT RUDY). Yes on a statistical basis, murders, rape and violet crime "across the 5 boroughs" fluctuate, and at it's highest, is still among the lowest globally for equally sized cities. But looking at crime in NYC is extremely complex, one needs to look at how crime breaks out by "at least" neighborhood and by type, motivation (the most dreaded crime for a New Yorker is when tourists, visitor/s from small town USA, or abroad are violently attacked) it is extremely rare occurrence and makes front page news when it does happen.
New York is also among the cleanest of mega cities...period. (please name a place in NYC as parts of Nossa Senhora in Copacabana, that I also live 2 blocks from?) Perhaps sides of The Bronx River Parkway, or early in the morning in Times Square before the day begins...other than NYC sanitation has NYC is well below the norm for the concentration of TENS of MILLIONS a day of people who can fill a public garbage cans to over flow. No, it is NOT Zurich or Palm Springs or Ft Collins Colorado. But, residential areas are virtually spotless?
Last, this thing about New Yorker's being rude or impolite couldn't be further from the truth. TRUE, not on the surface (not our culture to do pleasantries) we do not stop to be super sweet, we are all on a mission, but if you stop and ask for directions etc, then you will meet some lovely, helpful people. In my life I have never once see a person in NEED in ANY city ever get ignored by a passerby, or a group.
NYC equally so. If that happened to you, it would be the fluke of the millennium!

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/.../new-york- ... rime-201...

I was once in a HORRIBLE car accident in Sao Paulo, T boned by a car who went through a red light full speed, in a residential neighborhood. I crawled out of the car and onto the grass. Residents rushed to my aid, and called the hospital. As I waited on the grass, on my back, the entire block came running out of their houses to help. When they found out I was American - I got triple the love.

This reminds me of the posters who say "every customer facing person at United is surly if not downright nasty" It simply is NOT TRUE at any airline.


I guess you did not get my point. I was mentioning MY experience in NYC which does not affect the city overall. People here are also talking about their experiences in Rio as if it was an absolute truth. I had the perception of a dirty and unsafe NY (I stayed near to Columbus Circle) and I am not telling it is a universal truth, it's just my perception.

I'm trying to compare it to what people are saying about Brazil which is clearly unfair. You see? I did the same thing regarding NYC and people are being stiff at me but when it comes to 3rd world places misperceptions become a 100% truth.

In order to answer you: Yes, the area within 9th Av and 47th Street was so so dirty just like the well known Nossa Senhora de Copacabana but coming onto Chelsea area it was ok which means touristic areas are not as well maintained as you're telling. Not to mention the subway in which I could spot rats. No megacity in this world is perfect, not even Tokyo.


Sorry but that’s ridiculous. Statistics show the difference between Rio and NYC and it’s quite large. Anything can happen anywhere but it’s just far more likely to happen in Rio than NYC in this case.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
User avatar
ChaseCLT
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:54 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:18 pm

Cheaper prices, more competition will drive more traffic. It’s easily $1600 to Brazil from the US. Europe on the other hand is so common to see flights below $700. I easily fly round trip to Europe for around $500 from the each coast.

I loveeeee Brazil. But the cost for 2 people is a little too much to swallow for leisure when I could fly to Europe and then have 40€ flights here and there to Major global cities
 
User avatar
PacoMartin
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:46 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
Brazil dropped the visa requirement for US citizen in order to boost tourism.


Most countries do not require a visa for US citizens because they want US tourist dollars. On the other hand to travel to the USA you need a visa, unless you are on a special list called Visa Waiver Program. You will notice that the only country in Latin America on the list is Chile. Brazil and Argentina badly want to be on the list so they can fly to the USA with just a passport, but the State Department keeps putting them on the short list, but won't go the final step.

Brazil and Argentina tried punishing the USA by requiring a visa to visit their countries, but it only hurt their revenue.

A LCC Brazilian airline was going to fly with a B737MAX from Brasilia to Orlando Florida establishing the longest route with that model. Routes that cross the equator are potentially longer because of the lack of trade winds in the tropics.

Chile (only country in Latin America)
Brunei (only Muslim country)
Japan (only four Asian countries)
South Korea
Taiwan
Singapore
Australia (two South Pacific countries)
New Zealand
---Europe
Andorra
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Monaco
Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
San Marino
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
 
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SDUMIA
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:01 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:04 am

I really hope that LATAM resumes its direct MIA-GIG service. I fly to Rio from Miami every 6 weeks and now the only remaining direct service is with AA. However, AA’s fares are more than double compared to LATAM’s service via GRU, AD via VCP or CM via PTY. DL via ATL is also expensive.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 877
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:07 am

Lets keep this thread focused on aviation and avoid political discussion and personal attacks.

Thank you all
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8232
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:25 am

Crime is down over 20% this year compared to last year. I think it will continue to drop and the economy will slowly start to grow again.

It’s going to take some time before people recognize these improvements in crime, but when they do, there will be a boom of tourists. The Visa waiver makes it A LOT less expensive to visit Brazil, especially for families.

With more but lower margin traffic, perhaps more airlines will decide to add daylight flights instead of sitting on the ground all day. When THAT happens, that’ll be a game changer for prices.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
dcajet
Posts: 4123
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:42 am

PacoMartin wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
Brazil dropped the visa requirement for US citizen in order to boost tourism.


Most countries do not require a visa for US citizens because they want US tourist dollars. On the other hand to travel to the USA you need a visa, unless you are on a special list called Visa Waiver Program. You will notice that the only country in Latin America on the list is Chile. Brazil and Argentina badly want to be on the list so they can fly to the USA with just a passport, but the State Department keeps putting them on the short list, but won't go the final step.

Brazil and Argentina tried punishing the USA by requiring a visa to visit their countries, but it only hurt their revenue.

A LCC Brazilian airline was going to fly with a B737MAX from Brasilia to Orlando Florida establishing the longest route with that model. Routes that cross the equator are potentially longer because of the lack of trade winds in the tropics.

Chile (only country in Latin America)
Brunei (only Muslim country)
Japan (only four Asian countries)
South Korea
Taiwan
Singapore
Australia (two South Pacific countries)
New Zealand
---Europe
Andorra
Austria
Belgium
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Monaco
Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
San Marino
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom



Off topic, but Argentina has not requested a visa for US passport holders since the early 80s. In 2007. it started charging the US passport holders a reciprocity entry fee equal to the amount the US charges to apply for a US tourist visa. Chile did the same for years until it was included in the US WVP. In 2016 Argentina, now under President Macri, dropped the fee at the request of the US. In return, Argentina was made a part of the US Global Entry program. In LatAm only Argentina. Colombia, Panama and Mexico belong to said program.

Argentina and Uruguay were part of the US VWP between 1996 and 2002.

And it is not that Argentina and Brazil are being given the round around for inclusion on the US VWP. Under the current US administration, new additions to the program are frozen. Expanding the program is not something being considered by the Trump administration. The tide has changed in DC.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Jomar777
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:20 am

First point: I find an utterly mistake for Brazil to make the USA an exception on their reciprocity law. In other words, it should not waive the VISA requirements for US Citizens until USA does the same. It is only fair.
There will be no significant increase in traffic from the US with this measure simply because they will prefer to fly to Caribean and Mexico rather than to Rio and Sao Paulo, for example. It is simply cheaper, nearer and convenient for someone that, other than National Holidays, has only 12 days holidays usually as intake for the year.
I feel that the VISA Waiver was only a political stunt from the actual Brazilian President which is now hell bent in indicating his son as Brazilian Ambassador in the US rather than a true economic measure.
I would say that any sensible Brazilian Government coming after this one will overturn this decision.
The only way for US Traffic to inrease is if the US reciprocates the measure (near to impossible... forget shorlists, and etc. Looks like Sweden promising to join the Euro).
the present measure is a diservice for the Brazilian Tourist which will continue more and more to go to Europe where cheap flights continue to come, offerings are increasing and there's no VISA requirements in advance for most ot Europe.
Not even Russia requests VISA form Brazilians - loads to see across the Atlantic...
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8232
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:29 pm

Last year, there was an increase of 15.7% in traffic from countries that were included in the electronic visa program:

https://www.panrotas.com.br/mercado/eco ... 63181.html

.... which are the same countries that are now visa free. Inquiries have risen 31% since the announcement that Americans now don’t need visas:

https://www.panrotas.com.br/mercado/pes ... 63169.html

This is a hugely positive thing. Now, to transform those inquiries into actual travelers, crime will need to improve.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
User avatar
ojjunior
Posts: 826
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:31 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:53 pm

SDUMIA wrote:
DL via ATL is also expensive.


Good point.
BTW what's wrong with DL prices thru ATL?
Every connex option thru ATL is about 30%, 40% or more expensive than any other connection point in US all the times I checked, for years.
Recently I flew to GRU-ORD all the way via LAX with AA and believe me, it was way cheaper than DL via ATL, time wasn't a problem for me so I opt for this.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:53 am

American should restart year round flights from DFW to Rio De Janerio.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3375
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:49 am

I'm going to Rio in January. I wouldn't have bothered if I had to deal with with getting a visa, so it really does make a difference. AA selling $650 Premium Economy tickets is a motivator as well...
 
VC10er
Posts: 4102
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: More US-Brazil flights?

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:34 am

usflyer msp wrote:
I'm going to Rio in January. I wouldn't have bothered if I had to deal with with getting a visa, so it really does make a difference. AA selling $650 Premium Economy tickets is a motivator as well...


If you have never been before I can help you with some things to do- and the safest places Are you going for NYE?
Richard
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.

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