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Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:01 pm
by flyguy89
CMHMarc787 wrote:
Hamilton (Cincinnati) and all their surrounding are trending downwards.

No, that's not correct at all actually.

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:20 pm
by enilria
DeltaRules wrote:
enilria wrote:
I like Boyd, but what airline is left to add these? The ULCCs are all but dead across the Atlantic. Norwegian just said they are going to curtail growth.


Sort of cross-posting from the DL focus city/AF/KL thread, but both sides have confirmed CMH has been talking to DL. AMS would be within 757 range.

For what it's worth, CRAA's board minutes for this month indicate they're investigating adding Global Entry to CMH's FIS.

Of course they are talking to them. So is SDF/STL/MCI/ORF/etc. Talk means little other than CMH is trying.

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:46 pm
by CMHMarc787
flyguy89 wrote:
CMHMarc787 wrote:
Hamilton (Cincinnati) and all their surrounding are trending downwards.

No, that's not correct at all actually.


I just reexamined my source (State of Ohio Development Services Agency) and I was somewhat off, however not by much.

Franklin (Columbus) and all surrounding counties are up (Delaware, Fairfield, Licking, Madison, Pickaway, and Union)
Hamilton (Cincinnati) is going down, but all three surrounding counties (Butler, Clermont, and Warren) are increasing
Cuyahoga (Cleveland), Geauga, Lake, and Summit are all going down, Loraine and Medina are going up.

My overarching point still holds that the Central Ohio region is rapidly growing as a whole in all facets, and is trending up across the board, which is quickly making it increasingly attractive to international service.

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:59 pm
by Bluegrass60
Don't forget...Cincinnati Metro crosses the river into Ky. and also crosses into Indiana. The CSA might actually expand to include the Dayton MSA in 2020. That will solidify Cinci has #1 CSA in Ohio by a large margin

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:32 pm
by flyguy89
CMHMarc787 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
CMHMarc787 wrote:
Hamilton (Cincinnati) and all their surrounding are trending downwards.

No, that's not correct at all actually.


I just reexamined my source (State of Ohio Development Services Agency) and I was somewhat off, however not by much.

Franklin (Columbus) and all surrounding counties are up (Delaware, Fairfield, Licking, Madison, Pickaway, and Union)
Hamilton (Cincinnati) is going down, but all three surrounding counties (Butler, Clermont, and Warren) are increasing
Cuyahoga (Cleveland), Geauga, Lake, and Summit are all going down, Loraine and Medina are going up.

My overarching point still holds that the Central Ohio region is rapidly growing as a whole in all facets, and is trending up across the board, which is quickly making it increasingly attractive to international service.

Census estimates actually show Hamilton County trending up 1.8%

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/ ... /PST045218

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:58 pm
by cledaybuck
Bluegrass60 wrote:
Don't forget...Cincinnati Metro crosses the river into Ky. and also crosses into Indiana. The CSA might actually expand to include the Dayton MSA in 2020. That will solidify Cinci has #1 CSA in Ohio by a large margin

Whether or not Dayton is included in the Cincinnati CSA makes no difference to CVG.

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:04 pm
by Bluegrass60
I dunno bout that....the reality is the South Dayton/Middletown areas make use of CVG; unfortunately for DAY as it has seen its' PAX numbers decline since WN moved to CVG (along with other air service losses at DAY). IF Cinci CSA includes Dayton in 2020....its mostly bragging rights...but to folks not aware of the area....that new CSA will have 1M+ more than Columbus or Cleveland.

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:17 am
by Springs1816
Bluegrass60 wrote:
I dunno bout that....the reality is the South Dayton/Middletown areas make use of CVG; unfortunately for DAY as it has seen its' PAX numbers decline since WN moved to CVG (along with other air service losses at DAY). IF Cinci CSA includes Dayton in 2020....its mostly bragging rights...but to folks not aware of the area....that new CSA will have 1M+ more than Columbus or Cleveland.


You are actually correct. Local leaders from both Dayton and Cincy have been pushing for this combination. Not sure if the govt will combine it on this next census but with the growth that is occurring between the two it probably is just a matter of time. If they do combine the two, the CSA would be nearly equivalent to Cleveland. Think about 3.6 million for Cleveland and 3.5 for the"new" Cincinnati-Dayton CSA. Now whether or not this means anything to new potential carriers who knows.

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:32 pm
by WaywardMemphian
Here's some indo on Tenn and Memphis. It was 3rd in international spending growth in 2018. Memphis saw a some of that.
https://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/new ... s_headline

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:50 pm
by cledaybuck
Springs1816 wrote:
Bluegrass60 wrote:
I dunno bout that....the reality is the South Dayton/Middletown areas make use of CVG; unfortunately for DAY as it has seen its' PAX numbers decline since WN moved to CVG (along with other air service losses at DAY). IF Cinci CSA includes Dayton in 2020....its mostly bragging rights...but to folks not aware of the area....that new CSA will have 1M+ more than Columbus or Cleveland.


You are actually correct. Local leaders from both Dayton and Cincy have been pushing for this combination. Not sure if the govt will combine it on this next census but with the growth that is occurring between the two it probably is just a matter of time. If they do combine the two, the CSA would be nearly equivalent to Cleveland. Think about 3.6 million for Cleveland and 3.5 for the"new" Cincinnati-Dayton CSA. Now whether or not this means anything to new potential carriers who knows.

It means nothing to CVG. No one who currently lives in the Dayton MSA is going to suddenly realize that they could fly out of CVG if the two MSA's are combined into one CSA.

Re: Next wave of TATL per Boyd Group

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:42 am
by LAX772LR
Andy33 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
agree TATL service into smaller airports is something new and we'll have to get used to it. The large hubs become too crowded to funnel all TATL traffic through and there is demand for direct TATL flights from smaller airports.

Isn't there a bit of an inconsistency here? Large hubs in the US become too crowded to funnel all TATL traffic through, but the answer is to provide extra flights from smaller US airports to, er, large hubs in Europe?

There's no real inconsistency there. We've seen this phenom on both sides, and will continue to see it fragment.

In the '90s and especially the '00s, we saw the likes of DL and CO significantly increasing the amount of secondary and tertiary Euro cities flown nonstop from NYC. In the last half-decade, we've seen the inverse, with the likes of AUS/MSY/SJC/BNA/IND/etc (re)gaining nonstops to the major Euro hubs.

The failure of the 748i/A380 on the TATL, versus rampant demand for the 787/A321(X)LR, are testament to said market direction, which by all indications will only continue to fragment, despite the ebbs and flows of business.