In the 737NG production/delivery thread I see some odd comment regarding the last NG to be delivered to KLM.
l/n 7542 seems to have serious issues during final assembly and there are even comments made that the l/n has changed internally at Boeing and even that a wrong set of wings was attached....

Can anyone shine a light on this one???

link to the other thread ( last page ) : https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413361&start=50

DALCE wrote:

In the 737NG production/delivery thread I see some odd comment regarding the last NG to be delivered to KLM.
l/n 7542 seems to have serious issues during final assembly and there are even comments made that the l/n has changed internally at Boeing and even that a wrong set of wings was attached....

Can anyone shine a light on this one???

link to the other thread ( last page ) : https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413361&start=50

Interesting, I would love to learn more about this airframe as well.

Wrong set of wings? Hard to imagine...

I know mistakes happen, but that would be one hell of an error.

Boeing needs a deworming coupled with a a top-to-bottom internal audit by U.S. and foreign aviation regulators.
Something is seriously wrong with this company.

N14AZ wrote:

DALCE wrote:

In the 737NG production/delivery thread I see some odd comment regarding the last NG to be delivered to KLM.
l/n 7542 seems to have serious issues during final assembly and there are even comments made that the l/n has changed internally at Boeing and even that a wrong set of wings was attached....

Can anyone shine a light on this one???

link to the other thread ( last page ) : https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1413361&start=50

Interesting, I would love to learn more about this airframe as well.

Wrong set of wings? Hard to imagine...

P-8 wings?

KFTG wrote:

Boeing needs a deworming coupled with a a top-to-bottom internal audit by U.S. and foreign aviation regulators.
Something is seriously wrong with this company.

What's what happens when you let the bean counters and lawyers run the company.

I think in this case, "wrong set of wings" is probably a paperwork error regarding serial numbers.
I highly doubt the aircraft in question was flying around w/ P8 wings on it.

KFTG wrote:

I think in this case, "wrong set of wings" is probably a paperwork error regarding serial numbers.
I highly doubt the aircraft in question was flying around w/ P8 wings on it.

Well the plane hasn't made its first flight (yet) so it can be anything.

Michael

I have heard several stories from holes drilled in the wrong place to the fuselage being shot at during its trainride from Wichita to Renton.

I’m having visions of some 787 wings being accidentally fitted to the aircraft or something!

with class D gate wings? lol

76er wrote:

I have heard several stories from holes drilled in the wrong place to the fuselage being shot at during its trainride from Wichita to Renton.

If it's "just" bullet holes from the trainride you would think they had already fixed that.

As Kanban wrote in a previous thread: viewtopic.php?t=1369157

kanban wrote:

DFWflightpath wrote:

EarlyLateORD wrote:

I have heard that there have been issues with the fuselages arriving in Renton with bullet holes in them, presumably by local morons along the route.

Anybody know what Boeing does with bullet-hole fuselages? is it ok to sell patched or repaired frames as new?

they are patched and unless you looked inside you'd never guess. the fuselages are all pressure checked before roll out to ensure the patch is good (as well as for other production processes involving skin penetrations)

I guess it's something else...

is there a structural difference between P-8 and 737-800 wings?

first, we dont know about wing spec, just somebody think there are only 2 wing variant for NG family - civilian and P-8.

P-8 have greater wingspan because it not need to fit in class C airport gates,achieved by different wingtip.

another structure difference can be weapon pods.

DALCE wrote:

is there a structural difference between P-8 and 737-800 wings?

For the military gear (4 hard points) higher MTOW (85.7 tonnes), different wingtips, I cannot believe this tall story

so poseidons runs at they own production line and cant be mistaked parts for civilian

if this cool story really happens, the question is what difference between 73g, 738 and 739 wings.

I find it very hard at all that a company like Boeing would make such a huge error, but since there are some rumours I thought it is worth a seperate topic.
Now hopefully is willing and able to shine a light on it.

In the 737NG thread the following was stated by RobK last week :

"Ref the KLM, an interesting development has caught my attention. It's original msn has now been changed on internal documents to one starting with a 9 ! I've never seen this happen before with an msn but I do know that Boeing uses line numbers starting with a 9 for static and fatigue test frames. Whether this is just an admin error or something more sinister is happening I have no clue at this time. It's odd that the frame hasn't been sighted at all, only its pair of winglets in the P-8 factory (the frame in Calla's pic is a P-8, not the KLM, as the P-8 fuselage antennas are all visible in the 2nd pic).

I shall make enquiries with my sources. "

747classic wrote:

In the 737NG thread the following was stated by RobK last week :

"Ref the KLM, an interesting development has caught my attention. It's original msn has now been changed on internal documents to one starting with a 9 ! I've never seen this happen before with an msn but I do know that Boeing uses line numbers starting with a 9 for static and fatigue test frames. Whether this is just an admin error or something more sinister is happening I have no clue at this time. It's odd that the frame hasn't been sighted at all, only its pair of winglets in the P-8 factory (the frame in Calla's pic is a P-8, not the KLM, as the P-8 fuselage antennas are all visible in the 2nd pic).

I shall make enquiries with my sources. "

The P-8 production line is in the same building as the 737 (all including P-8) wing assembly line.

Is it possible they put a MAX wing on it? The b737.org.uk website suggests the MAX has a strengthened wing vs the NG, and I'm guessing there are differences where the engine pylon is mounted.

http://www.b737.org.uk/737maxdiffs.htm

In the KLM thread on Dutch aviation forum Scramble it has been mentioned the aircraft has returned to the FAL, back to the beginning of the line. EIS has been delayed by 8 months, now expected December this year.

MIflyer12 wrote:

KFTG wrote:

Boeing needs a deworming coupled with a a top-to-bottom internal audit by U.S. and foreign aviation regulators.
Something is seriously wrong with this company.

That's just ridiculous. Boeing has successfully delivered hundreds of quality commercial aircraft a year for decades. Carriers wouldn't keep buying if Boeing didn't. Like Airbus has never had a delivery delay...

Is it ridiculous though?Yes Airbus has had delivery delays but if these rumours are true mixed in what we already know about quality control issues at the Charleston Plant, the falsified 787 paperwork, and the fact the Federal Government is expanding its investigation something looks to be truly broken in Boeing from upper management.

With all the PR issues going on maybe showing that the company is devoted to being the safest and best possible through conducting an audit or bringing onboard a consulting firm like McKinsey to identify issues and institute changes would be the best course of action.

So the Skymark 737-800 delivered the other week wasn't the final NG to be produced/delivered?

CarbonFibre wrote:

So the Skymark 737-800 delivered the other week wasn't the final NG to be produced/delivered?

Theoritically it should have (at least as the last commercial sample) as it has a later line # than the KLM ones.

However with the drama plus CUA not taking delivery of its birds (as they can't find a parking space until September when PKX opens) it won't be the last.

Michael

OP, nit-picking, but LN 7542 would be a 737-800, and not a 737-8K2; Boeing dropped the Customer Code a few years ago.
By the way, K2 is Transavia, not KLM.

WayexTDI wrote:

OP, nit-picking, but LN 7542 would be a 737-800, and not a 737-8K2; Boeing dropped the Customer Code a few years ago.
By the way, K2 is Transavia, not KLM.

For some reason, all the 7/8/900’s delivered to KLM are K2’s, and not 06’s.....
Anybody know why...?

TUGMASTER wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

OP, nit-picking, but LN 7542 would be a 737-800, and not a 737-8K2; Boeing dropped the Customer Code a few years ago.
By the way, K2 is Transavia, not KLM.

For some reason, all the 7/8/900’s delivered to KLM are K2’s, and not 06’s.....
Anybody know why...?

Ordered by Transavia, then transferred to KLM maybe? Transavia is owned by KLM, so for Boeing it's pretty much the same.

WayexTDI wrote:

TUGMASTER wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

OP, nit-picking, but LN 7542 would be a 737-800, and not a 737-8K2; Boeing dropped the Customer Code a few years ago.
By the way, K2 is Transavia, not KLM.

For some reason, all the 7/8/900’s delivered to KLM are K2’s, and not 06’s.....
Anybody know why...?

Ordered by Transavia, then transferred to KLM maybe? Transavia is owned by KLM, so for Boeing it's pretty much the same.

KLM’s Boeing 737NG fleet carries/carried the customer code K2 like Transavia.

viewtopic.php?p=3656303

This thread sheds some light onto why they’re K2 not 06 on the NG aircraft

LN 7542 (1) fuselage has an issue which does not meet Boeing spec and won't be built. A replacement fuselage is on order from Spirit and will become LN 7542 (2) with the original msn 63624 but new tab/block ID YV676. LN 7642 (1) is now msn 98801 and no longer has any customer or registration assigned.

RobK wrote:

LN 7542 (1) fuselage has an issue which does not meet Boeing spec and won't be built. A replacement fuselage is on order from Spirit and will become LN 7542 (2) with the original msn 63624 but new tab/block ID YV676. LN 7642 (1) is now msn 98801 and no longer has any customer or registration assigned.

Interesting. Wonder how often such things happen. Error in assembly or transport damage?
Are rejected fuselages sent back to Spirit so they can reuse windows, doors etc?

Natflyer wrote:

RobK wrote:

LN 7542 (1) fuselage has an issue which does not meet Boeing spec and won't be built. A replacement fuselage is on order from Spirit and will become LN 7542 (2) with the original msn 63624 but new tab/block ID YV676. LN 7642 (1) is now msn 98801 and no longer has any customer or registration assigned.

Interesting. Wonder how often such things happen.

AFAIK this also happened earlier on the 737NG assembly :

THE FOLLOWING SIX FUSELAGES WERE DAMAGED BEYOND REPAIR DUE A TRAIN-DERAILMENT IN WESTERN MONTANA AT JULY 03 2014.

*L/N 5030 C/N 42524 B737-8H4 N8643A SOUTHWEST (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5031 C/N 43420 B737-86N HS-DBR NOK AIR, Lsd. GECAS (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5032 C/N 35973 B737-8H4 N8644C SOUTHWEST (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5033 C/N 31199 B737-823 N955NN AMERICAN AIRLINES (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5034 C/N 39904 B737-85C B-1971 XIAMEN AIR (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5035 C/N 37620 B737-87L B-1972 SHENZEN (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)

FOLLOWING SIX AIRCRAFT ARE ASSEMBLED IN ONE ASSEMBLY BLOCK DURING NOVEMBER 2014 WITH REPLACEMENT(P) FUSELAGES , SEE INCIDENT JULY 03 2014.
These six aircraft were assembled at the FAL in one block after L/N 5191 and before L/N 5192.

L/N 5030(P) C/N 42524 B737-8H4 N8643A SOUTHWEST (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5031(P) C/N 43420 B737-86N HS-DBR NOK AIR Lsd GECAS (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5032(P) C/N 35973 B737-8H4 N8644C SOUTHWEST AIRLINES (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5033(P) C/N 31199 B737-823 N955NN AMERICAN AIRLINES (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5034(P) C/N 39904 B737-85C B-1971 XIAMEN AIR (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5035(P) C/N 37620 B737-87L B-1972 SHENZHEN (Replacement fuselage)

747classic wrote:

Natflyer wrote:

RobK wrote:

LN 7542 (1) fuselage has an issue which does not meet Boeing spec and won't be built. A replacement fuselage is on order from Spirit and will become LN 7542 (2) with the original msn 63624 but new tab/block ID YV676. LN 7642 (1) is now msn 98801 and no longer has any customer or registration assigned.

Interesting. Wonder how often such things happen.

AFAIK this also happened earlier on the 737NG assembly :

THE FOLLOWING SIX FUSELAGES WERE DAMAGED BEYOND REPAIR DUE A TRAIN-DERAILMENT IN WESTERN MONTANA AT JULY 03 2014.

*L/N 5030 C/N 42524 B737-8H4 N8643A SOUTHWEST (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5031 C/N 43420 B737-86N HS-DBR NOK AIR, Lsd. GECAS (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5032 C/N 35973 B737-8H4 N8644C SOUTHWEST (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5033 C/N 31199 B737-823 N955NN AMERICAN AIRLINES (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5034 C/N 39904 B737-85C B-1971 XIAMEN AIR (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)
*L/N 5035 C/N 37620 B737-87L B-1972 SHENZEN (*DESTR BEFORE ASSEMBLY)

FOLLOWING SIX AIRCRAFT ARE ASSEMBLED IN ONE ASSEMBLY BLOCK DURING NOVEMBER 2014 WITH REPLACEMENT(P) FUSELAGES , SEE INCIDENT JULY 03 2014.
These six aircraft were assembled at the FAL in one block after L/N 5191 and before L/N 5192.

L/N 5030(P) C/N 42524 B737-8H4 N8643A SOUTHWEST (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5031(P) C/N 43420 B737-86N HS-DBR NOK AIR Lsd GECAS (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5032(P) C/N 35973 B737-8H4 N8644C SOUTHWEST AIRLINES (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5033(P) C/N 31199 B737-823 N955NN AMERICAN AIRLINES (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5034(P) C/N 39904 B737-85C B-1971 XIAMEN AIR (Replacement fuselage)
L/N 5035(P) C/N 37620 B737-87L B-1972 SHENZHEN (Replacement fuselage)

Yes, I remember the derailment. I wonder if in the past there has been a replacement fuselage needed after assembly though. Also wondering how much can be re-used from the previously assembled LN7542. Or will it be a completely newly built aircraft, and parts assembled into the previous LN7542 being used as spare parts?

RobK wrote:

LN 7542 (1) fuselage has an issue which does not meet Boeing spec and won't be built. A replacement fuselage is on order from Spirit and will become LN 7542 (2) with the original msn 63624 but new tab/block ID YV676. LN 7642 (1) is now msn 98801 and no longer has any customer or registration assigned.

Which one will be delivered to KLM, if this msn will be assigned to someone else?

TUGMASTER wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

OP, nit-picking, but LN 7542 would be a 737-800, and not a 737-8K2; Boeing dropped the Customer Code a few years ago.
By the way, K2 is Transavia, not KLM.

For some reason, all the 7/8/900’s delivered to KLM are K2’s, and not 06’s.....
Anybody know why...?

I believe it's due to certification; all of Transavia's aircraft were, of course, -K2s and rather than have the Dutch CAA do a completely new certification process that would have been required by the -7/8/906 (which would have caused extra cost) , it was decided to piggy-back the Transavia certification. KLM owns Transavia anyway.

kaitak wrote:

TUGMASTER wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

OP, nit-picking, but LN 7542 would be a 737-800, and not a 737-8K2; Boeing dropped the Customer Code a few years ago.
By the way, K2 is Transavia, not KLM.

For some reason, all the 7/8/900’s delivered to KLM are K2’s, and not 06’s.....
Anybody know why...?

I believe it's due to certification; all of Transavia's aircraft were, of course, -K2s and rather than have the Dutch CAA do a completely new certification process that would have been required by the -7/8/906 (which would have caused extra cost) , it was decided to piggy-back the Transavia certification. KLM owns Transavia anyway.

Correct.

Dutchy wrote:

RobK wrote:

LN 7542 (1) fuselage has an issue which does not meet Boeing spec and won't be built. A replacement fuselage is on order from Spirit and will become LN 7542 (2) with the original msn 63624 but new tab/block ID YV676. LN 7642 (1) is now msn 98801 and no longer has any customer or registration assigned.

Which one will be delivered to KLM, if this msn will be assigned to someone else?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Who is this "someone else" to which you refer? Where have you read that?

LN7542 that was intended for KLM PH-BCL has been removed from final assembly as indicated by RobK post above. It is now stored in between the wing assembly building and the final assembly hall along with the KLM wings.

Notice the LN# has been removed from the fuselage.

@WoodysAeroimag https://twitter.com/AeroimagesChris/sta ... 9111864320

Just for your info, as the order book currently stands, the replacement frame will not be the last NG built (ignoring the P-8s). There are still 2x UNID B738 NG to come. Assuming Boeing has indexed them correctly they will be standard pax models.

RobK wrote:

@WoodysAeroimag https://twitter.com/AeroimagesChris/sta ... 9111864320

Just for your info, as the order book currently stands, the replacement frame will not be the last NG built (ignoring the P-8s). There are still 2x UNID B738 NG to come. Assuming Boeing has indexed them correctly they will be standard pax models.

I've been told by multiple Boeing employees that they have completed the wings for the last NG and no more NG wings will be built.

According to this article;

https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... ng-737-800

The holes in the part of the fuselage where the wing would be attached were drilled wrong. Due to this the wings could not be fitted.

So, no wrong wings or something, but a production error of the fuselage.

Cheers!

LifelinerOne wrote:

According to this article;

https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... ng-737-800

The holes in the part of the fuselage where the wing would be attached were drilled wrong. Due to this the wings could not be fitted.

So, no wrong wings or something, but a production error of the fuselage.

Cheers!

OK.... how often did they drill those holes before this one? Is QC non-existent at Boeing?

marcelh wrote:

LifelinerOne wrote:

According to this article;

https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... ng-737-800

The holes in the part of the fuselage where the wing would be attached were drilled wrong. Due to this the wings could not be fitted.

So, no wrong wings or something, but a production error of the fuselage.

Cheers!

OK.... how often did they drill those holes before this one? Is QC non-existent at Boeing?

The fuselage is manufactured by Spirit AeroSystems, so you may want to direct your question in their direction...

V/F

VirginFlyer wrote:

marcelh wrote:

LifelinerOne wrote:

According to this article;

https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... ng-737-800

The holes in the part of the fuselage where the wing would be attached were drilled wrong. Due to this the wings could not be fitted.

So, no wrong wings or something, but a production error of the fuselage.

Cheers!

OK.... how often did they drill those holes before this one? Is QC non-existent at Boeing?

The fuselage is manufactured by Spirit AeroSystems, so you may want to direct your question in their direction...

V/F

Boeing is ultimately responsible for the quality of the product presented to the customer, regardless of how badly Boeing's suppliers screw up.

Also, Spirit may make the fuselage, but Boeing may be responsible for drilling the holes in Renton. We don't really know.

Either way, Boeing has to own up to this mistake.

I think this screw up is another sign of Boeing's cost cutting culture.

max999 wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

marcelh wrote:

OK.... how often did they drill those holes before this one? Is QC non-existent at Boeing?

The fuselage is manufactured by Spirit AeroSystems, so you may want to direct your question in their direction...

V/F

Boeing is ultimately responsible for the quality of the product presented to the customer, regardless of how badly Boeing's suppliers screw up.

Also, Spirit may make the fuselage, but Boeing may be responsible for drilling the holes in Renton. We don't really know.

Either way, Boeing has to own up to this mistake.

I think this screw up is another sign of Boeing's cost cutting culture.

I’m confused. Production errors happen for all manufacturers. Isn’t what’s happening here exactly the way the problem should be solved? What am I missing here?

Cubsrule wrote:

What am I missing here?

An opportunity to cast aspersions on Boeing, apparently...

V/F

eamondzhang wrote:

KFTG wrote:

I think in this case, "wrong set of wings" is probably a paperwork error regarding serial numbers.
I highly doubt the aircraft in question was flying around w/ P8 wings on it.

Well the plane hasn't made its first flight (yet) so it can be anything.

Michael

i think someone would notice if they attached wings that were longer and raked and not shelter with winglets

Get the previous 6969 units right, but when number 6970 goes wrong, there are calls to fire the entire C-Suite and re-regulate the entire production process.

My curiosity about this frame has been salved, so I can now ignore this thread.

max999 wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

marcelh wrote:

OK.... how often did they drill those holes before this one? Is QC non-existent at Boeing?

The fuselage is manufactured by Spirit AeroSystems, so you may want to direct your question in their direction...

V/F

Boeing is ultimately responsible for the quality of the product presented to the customer, regardless of how badly Boeing's suppliers screw up.

Also, Spirit may make the fuselage, but Boeing may be responsible for drilling the holes in Renton. We don't really know.

Either way, Boeing has to own up to this mistake.

I think this screw up is another sign of Boeing's cost cutting culture.

Don't you think you're jumping to conclusion?
There was an error made (it happens all the time), it was caught and is being corrected; hard a "cost cutting culture" to me.

WayexTDI wrote:

max999 wrote:

VirginFlyer wrote:

The fuselage is manufactured by Spirit AeroSystems, so you may want to direct your question in their direction...

V/F

Boeing is ultimately responsible for the quality of the product presented to the customer, regardless of how badly Boeing's suppliers screw up.

Also, Spirit may make the fuselage, but Boeing may be responsible for drilling the holes in Renton. We don't really know.

Either way, Boeing has to own up to this mistake.

I think this screw up is another sign of Boeing's cost cutting culture.

Don't you think you're jumping to conclusion?
There was an error made (it happens all the time), it was caught and is being corrected; hard a "cost cutting culture" to me.

Combine this event with all the recent exposés about Boeing's quality control problems, I believe my conclusion is correct.