WayexTDI
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:58 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Guess what? AA sold the seat at a mutually agreed upon prices; both parties agreed that the price did fit their expectations. If the buyer found a cheaper flight and started whining about it, too bad so sad; if the seller could have found a pax willing to pay more and started whining about that, too bad so sad.
Once the deal is sealed, neither party can have "buyer's/seller's remorse".


Doesn't work that way. A flight ticket works differently than a tangible product like say a car or a meal at a restaurant.

Otherwise, start paying more. That will solve the issue.

OK, maybe I wasn't clear: AA and the pax sealed the deal. Regardless the product sold, regardless if they could have gotten more or less money, a contract was signed and will be executed.
AA cannot come back and say "but I could have gotten more money for it"; great for you, but you agreed to the sale.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:58 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
OK, maybe I wasn't clear: AA and the pax sealed the deal. Regardless the product sold, regardless if they could have gotten more or less money, a contract was signed and will be executed.
AA cannot come back and say "but I could have gotten more money for it"; great for you, but you agreed to the sale.


And the contract clearly states that if you don't use a portion of your flight, you lose the whole booking. AA certainly didn't go to the customer & said "We are cancelling your flight because Joe Sixpack here is willing to pay more," so there's no seller's remorse there.

However, they are within their right to protect their revenue by having no-show policies that allows Joe Sixpack to fly if Jay-Z here didn't.
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eielef
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:01 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Otherwise, start paying more. That will solve the issue.

Do you think you are paying little? After you add all the "add ons" in Subway, your sandwich certainly cost a hundred bucks.
Do you think we are paying cheap?
A return flight, LAX-MIA, is over 500U$S. That's a lot of money, for a economy ticket, with no luggage, no food, no space for your legs, no nothing. And AVOID making any mistake, because it will be aggressively expensive. Mistake means, e.g., a problem while typing your name, or choosing your dates, and a common mistake: choosing the route (instead of LAX-MIA searching for MIA-LAX). Those mistakes, or most of them, can't be fixed.
Just 5 years ago, 500U$S paid a flight, from Miami to Europe rt. LAX seems closer and cheaper. And we are speaking of two very large airports. Change LAX for some remote place in northern US, with multiple connection in awful E135s, i'm sure is more expensive to those places.
 
TheOldDude
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:15 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
OK, maybe I wasn't clear: AA and the pax sealed the deal. Regardless the product sold, regardless if they could have gotten more or less money, a contract was signed and will be executed.
AA cannot come back and say "but I could have gotten more money for it"; great for you, but you agreed to the sale.


And the contract clearly states that if you don't use a portion of your flight, you lose the whole booking. AA certainly didn't go to the customer & said "We are cancelling your flight because Joe Sixpack here is willing to pay more," so there's no seller's remorse there.

However, they are within their right to protect their revenue by having no-show policies that allows Joe Sixpack to fly if Jay-Z here didn't.


Although I agree that AA can establish and implement no-show policies, I believe those policies should be fully and fairly disclosed. For example, the refundability of purchases and ability to change flights is fully and fairly disclosed (see my post on Orbitz). What justifies full and fair disclosure of those two contractual provisions while hiding no-show provisions in dense legalese and tiny print?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:18 pm

eielef wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Otherwise, start paying more. That will solve the issue.

Do you think you are paying little? After you add all the "add ons" in Subway, your sandwich certainly cost a hundred bucks.
Do you think we are paying cheap?
A return flight, LAX-MIA, is over 500U$S. That's a lot of money, for a economy ticket, with no luggage, no food, no space for your legs, no nothing. And AVOID making any mistake, because it will be aggressively expensive. Mistake means, e.g., a problem while typing your name, or choosing your dates, and a common mistake: choosing the route (instead of LAX-MIA searching for MIA-LAX). Those mistakes, or most of them, can't be fixed.
Just 5 years ago, 500U$S paid a flight, from Miami to Europe rt. LAX seems closer and cheaper. And we are speaking of two very large airports. Change LAX for some remote place in northern US, with multiple connection in awful E135s, i'm sure is more expensive to those places.


I've paid $295.67 for IAD-SEA-LAX back in 2016 - today on the same route with AS, the same airline I took back then, I was offered a fare of $236.59 - cheaper by $70 thanks to the basic fare. And even if I upgraded to the Main fare, the fare is $286.60. If you take into account inflation, the fare I paid in 2016 is supposed to be worth $314.10 now - so yes it is cheap.

Your comparison isn't an apple to apple comparison.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:22 pm

TheOldDude wrote:
Although I agree that AA can establish and implement no-show policies, I believe those policies should be fully and fairly disclosed. For example, the refundability of purchases and ability to change flights is fully and fairly disclosed (see my post on Orbitz). What justifies full and fair disclosure of those two contractual provisions while hiding no-show provisions in dense legalese and tiny print?


No show rules are applicable for all, whether it be the full fare or promo fare, in Business or Economy. That's why it's placed in the contract of carriage, which is different from fare rules.
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TheOldDude
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:25 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
TheOldDude wrote:
Although I agree that AA can establish and implement no-show policies, I believe those policies should be fully and fairly disclosed. For example, the refundability of purchases and ability to change flights is fully and fairly disclosed (see my post on Orbitz). What justifies full and fair disclosure of those two contractual provisions while hiding no-show provisions in dense legalese and tiny print?


No show rules are applicable for all, whether it be the full fare or promo fare, in Business or Economy. That's why it's placed in the contract of carriage, which is different from fare rules.


I'm talking about full and fair disclosure, which goes to the materiality of the fact to the purchase decision rather than scope of applicability. What justifies full and fair disclosure of those two contractual provisions while hiding no-show provisions in dense legalese and tiny print?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:28 pm

TheOldDude wrote:
I'm talking about full and fair disclosure, which goes to the materiality of the fact to the purchase decision rather than scope of applicability. What justifies full and fair disclosure of those two contractual provisions while hiding no-show provisions in dense legalese and tiny print?


Because refund & change rules are different for each fare, and as I've stated above, no-show rules are applicable to all.
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TheOldDude
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:42 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
TheOldDude wrote:
I'm talking about full and fair disclosure, which goes to the materiality of the fact to the purchase decision rather than scope of applicability. What justifies full and fair disclosure of those two contractual provisions while hiding no-show provisions in dense legalese and tiny print?


Because refund & change rules are different for each fare, and as I've stated above, no-show rules are applicable to all.


I fail to understand why material rules different for each fare should be fully and fairly disclosed while material rules applicable to all fares should be hidden in dense legalese and tiny print. I believe all material rules should be fully and fairly disclosed.

I believe that the commerce in general, and this industry in particular, benefits when the rules are clear and known by each party. Full and fair disclosure helps achieve that goal. Thus the material contractual provisions for a purchase should be fully and fairly disclosed. The industry does not gain when material provision are hidden in dense legalese and tiny print. That results in customer dissatisfaction appearing and creating friction in future ticket purchases.
 
travaz
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:11 am

I buy a ticket on AA. I do some homework and match the product to my needs. I want an assigned seat and the ability to take a carry on. I read the differences and decide to buy the main cabin fare. I get to the Airport with plenty of time and wait for my flight to board. As boarding progresses several people that have basic economy ticket start to argue with the gate agent about taking a carry on abroad. The agent allows them to take the luggage on board. The same people begin to complain that they are not sitting together. The agent tries to accommodate. I am paged to come to the desk and asked if i would give up my seat so they could sit together. I am offered a middle seat in back. I start to complain that I paid to reserve a seat and on and on. The point is everytime they allow someone to break the rules of thier ticket someone who paid the higher price is getting screwed. Next time I am going to by the BE and complain to see if I can get a free carry on etc. It works both ways.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:19 am

TheOldDude wrote:
I fail to understand why material rules different for each fare should be fully and fairly disclosed while material rules applicable to all fares should be hidden in dense legalese and tiny print. I believe all material rules should be fully and fairly disclosed.

I believe that the commerce in general, and this industry in particular, benefits when the rules are clear and known by each party. Full and fair disclosure helps achieve that goal. Thus the material contractual provisions for a purchase should be fully and fairly disclosed. The industry does not gain when material provision are hidden in dense legalese and tiny print. That results in customer dissatisfaction appearing and creating friction in future ticket purchases.


The conditions of carriage are too long and too dense to be included in the reservations process. Since the no show policy applies to all, there's no advantage of having it cluttering up the page. In any case, American does provide a link to the contract of carriage prior to confirming booking.
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afcjets
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:24 am

silentbob wrote:
Perhaps if he hadn't insulted the reservations agent on the phone, they would have been willing to volunteer more information. Honestly, that's just karma in action.



This is 100% American's fault. If he called in and said he needed to change his flight and they told him he couldn't on that ticket and would have to buy a new ticket, which he did to Dallas, the agent should have told him his entire itinerary would cancel and he would not be able to use his Dallas to Atlanta part of the ticket either, which he did not need to change. He called AA to change/cancel and they basically wouldn't let him, he was not a no-show. I realize it was probably an honest mistake on the agent he called, but AA should have accommodated him somehow getting to ATL based on their agent not giving enough information to assist with is itinerary change.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:30 am

What this guy didn't do that he should have is book separate one-way journeys for his trip. In this day and age, in markets such as WAS-DFW, DFW-ATL and ATL-WAS, you don't necessarily need to book a roundtrip ticket to get the lowest price. In fact, I now buy most of my tickets one-way if it is the same price or less, and I often use multiple carriers to get the cheapest rate or best schedule. That would have solved all his problems.
 
TheOldDude
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:35 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
TheOldDude wrote:
I fail to understand why material rules different for each fare should be fully and fairly disclosed while material rules applicable to all fares should be hidden in dense legalese and tiny print. I believe all material rules should be fully and fairly disclosed.

I believe that the commerce in general, and this industry in particular, benefits when the rules are clear and known by each party. Full and fair disclosure helps achieve that goal. Thus the material contractual provisions for a purchase should be fully and fairly disclosed. The industry does not gain when material provision are hidden in dense legalese and tiny print. That results in customer dissatisfaction appearing and creating friction in future ticket purchases.


The conditions of carriage are too long and too dense to be included in the reservations process. Since the no show policy applies to all, there's no advantage of having it cluttering up the page. In any case, American does provide a link to the contract of carriage prior to confirming booking.


I agree that the conditions of carriage are too long, that's why my statement is limited to "material contractual provisions". The no-show provision is a material provision. It should not be hidden away in tiny print and dense legalese.
 
shaner82
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:51 am

I would like to see the no show policy challenged in court. It's completely unreasonable and possibly illegal. Fine print doesn't absolve the airlines of their legal responsibilities. There's no cost to the airline when a pax doesn't show up. In fact, the airline will possibly sell that seat a second time, increasing revenue. There's no reason they need to sell the return ticket as well. Especially if the passenger legitimately missed their flight and then made other arrangements to get to their destination.

In this case, the guy even flew to his destination with AA. Surely they could have linked the two itineraries so his return ticket wouldn't have been canceled. If I were him, this would be going to court. He has no gripe about not being able to change his ticket, but he definitely has an argument about his return ticket being canceled
 
cledaybuck
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:55 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Texas77 wrote:
wait, what? he PAID for the seat. on the airline's flight, based on their system. so because he PAID for a seat, but didn't use it, that hurts the airline by not letting them sell the seat, that he PAID for, to someone else? how will they recover WHAT revenue? he PAID for it- generally, I equate PAYING to REVENUE, learned that in college!

I understand your explanation of why the airlines do it (as well as others here have explained), and why the airlines want to do it. But does it make sense to you? to anyone else here? that the poor airline is just so screwed by these scheming customers and their downright criminal gaming of the system by buying a ticket that the airline offers, and then NOT using part of it? to use someone else's mcdonalds example- if I buy a meal deal, but tell them I don't want the fries that I PAID for, is mcdonalds getting hosed here and should take recourse by not giving me any of the meal I paid for? or is the issue here the airline's silly system that makes no sense?


Like I said, the airline could have sold a ticket to someone who would have paid more. Don't forget, the guy paid for a Basic Economy ticket, the lowest of the lowest fare, which means it could have been priced below what it takes to have the flight break even, let alone make a profit. That someone who would have paid more could have made the flight profitable.

The analogy to McDonald's is not apt because the difference between the two products. You don't take the fries, it's fine because McDonald's pricing means that everybody pays the same, which already covers their costs & profits. Airlines meanwhile can't have every one pay the same, lest they lower demand since not every one needs to fly. Hence there will always some who pay the least, and there's always someone who pay the most to cover the former.

The funny thing is, American & Bob Crandall tried to simplify airline pricing back in the 1990s - but he failed.

https://www.mcall.com/news/mc-xpm-1993- ... story.html

cledaybuck wrote:
Basic economy is great for the airlines because it allows them to charge more for stuff you used to get for free. It has absolutely sucked for passengers though.


Plenty of people wants cheaper fares & are willing to give up some of the frills - I for one wouldn't mind having no baggage allowance at least one way, since I usually travel via carry-on luggage anyhow.

That’s the thing. They aren’t paying less. They are paying the same for less. What is my incentive to purchase AA BE vs. NK, F9, or G4?
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:05 am

afcjets wrote:
This is 100% American's fault. If he called in and said he needed to change his flight and they told him he couldn't on that ticket and would have to buy a new ticket, which he did to Dallas, the agent should have told him his entire itinerary would cancel and he would not be able to use his Dallas to Atlanta part of the ticket either, which he did not need to change. He called AA to change/cancel and they basically wouldn't let him, he was not a no-show. I realize it was probably an honest mistake on the agent he called, but AA should have accommodated him somehow getting to ATL based on their agent not giving enough information to assist with is itinerary change.


He called, they told him he will need to buy a new ticket to change the flight, he put the phone down, and bought another ticket separately. The agent is not a mind reader.

If AA accommodates him, then every one else will come in with a sob story like that to get the same treatment.

TheOldDude wrote:
I agree that the conditions of carriage are too long, that's why my statement is limited to "material contractual provisions". The no-show provision is a material provision. It should not be hidden away in tiny print and dense legalese.


How is it material when it won't affect buying decision - you won't suddenly want to upgrade to Business or Main Cabin just because you see that no show clause because the no show provisions apply to all.

If you want to argue that this is material, then others will argue that other sections are also material provisions, such as baggage provisions, seating provisions, delay provisions etc etc. And then pretty soon you'll have the whole conditions of carriage on the page cluttering things up.
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AtomicGarden
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:15 am

eielef wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Otherwise, start paying more. That will solve the issue.

Do you think you are paying little? After you add all the "add ons" in Subway, your sandwich certainly cost a hundred bucks.
Do you think we are paying cheap?
A return flight, LAX-MIA, is over 500U$S. That's a lot of money, for a economy ticket, with no luggage, no food, no space for your legs, no nothing. And AVOID making any mistake, because it will be aggressively expensive. Mistake means, e.g., a problem while typing your name, or choosing your dates, and a common mistake: choosing the route (instead of LAX-MIA searching for MIA-LAX). Those mistakes, or most of them, can't be fixed.
Just 5 years ago, 500U$S paid a flight, from Miami to Europe rt. LAX seems closer and cheaper. And we are speaking of two very large airports. Change LAX for some remote place in northern US, with multiple connection in awful E135s, i'm sure is more expensive to those places.


I pay more attention when buying tickets for the movies than pax do when booking intercontinental flights. If it were up to me, I'd allow most changes, but charge a helluva lot of money for it. However, as it is not up to me, I am sometimes quite flexible, but this man didn't deserve it. Don't book so close to your damn event. S#!7 happens and might miss it.
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:16 am

cledaybuck wrote:
That’s the thing. They aren’t paying less. They are paying the same for less. What is my incentive to purchase AA BE vs. NK, F9, or G4?


They're paying less to fly AA. It may not be less than NK, F9 or G4, but it's still less than the normal price on AA. And the advantage of AA BE over NK, F9 or G4 may include frequency & most importantly connections.
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TheOldDude
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:16 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
TheOldDude wrote:
I agree that the conditions of carriage are too long, that's why my statement is limited to "material contractual provisions". The no-show provision is a material provision. It should not be hidden away in tiny print and dense legalese.


How is it material when it won't affect buying decision - you won't suddenly want to upgrade to Business or Main Cabin just because you see that no show clause because the no show provisions apply to all.

If you want to argue that this is material, then others will argue that other sections are also material provisions, such as baggage provisions, seating provisions, delay provisions etc etc. And then pretty soon you'll have the whole conditions of carriage on the page cluttering things up.


Simple -- apply the same materiality standards used in other industries. Those issues have already been addressed elsewhere.
Last edited by TheOldDude on Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jplatts
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:17 am

richierich wrote:
There are a few things at play here. First, the revenue structure of many airlines is archaic...why is it sometimes cheaper to fly via a connection than it is directly from a hub? For example, my friend recently flew ATL-ELP on Delta. It was literally cheaper to buy a ticket from Columbus, GA to ATL and then connect to the very same flight to ELP than it was to go directly from the hub. Of course, his flight to ATL ended up being late and he missed the connection; had he driven to ATL to make his flight to ELP, the whole itinerary would have been cancelled because he missed the first segment. The delay was also due to weather, so he had little recourse. This is but one silly example but the whole thing is flawed and illogical. To the extremely infrequent flier, it makes NO SENSE. So yes, I feel for the AA customer.


WN offers 1-stop connecting service to ELP from ATL through DAL, HOU, or AUS, and AA offers 1-stop connecting service to ELP from ATL through DFW. Are the WN and AA connecting options to ELP from ATL cheaper than the DL ELP-ATL nonstops?
 
cledaybuck
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:19 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
That’s the thing. They aren’t paying less. They are paying the same for less. What is my incentive to purchase AA BE vs. NK, F9, or G4?


They're paying less to fly AA. It may not be less than NK, F9 or G4, but it's still less than the normal price on AA. And the advantage of AA BE over NK, F9 or G4 may include frequency & most importantly connections.

No it’s not. The lowest price became BE and regular economy went up in price. You are right though, the network is the only thing they have left to distinguish from the ULCC’s (although sometimes, not even that).
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:44 am

Wow delayed for 7 hours- Simply call your credit card company and dispute the charge for service not rendered. I'm pretty sure your credit card company would side with you.
 
jplatts
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:44 am

cledaybuck wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
They're paying less to fly AA. It may not be less than NK, F9 or G4, but it's still less than the normal price on AA. And the advantage of AA BE over NK, F9 or G4 may include frequency & most importantly connections.

No it’s not. The lowest price became BE and regular economy went up in price. You are right though, the network is the only thing they have left to distinguish from the ULCC’s (although sometimes, not even that).


WN is charging $230 roundtrip on the DAL-HOU nonstop route for Wanna Get Away fares that do not have the restrictions of AA and UA Basic Economy tickets, whereas AA and UA are charging the same price for Basic Economy fares that have more restrictions than WN's Wanna Get Away fares on the DFW-IAH nonstop route. The regular economy fares on the AA and UA DFW-IAH nonstop route is around $300 roundtrip.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:46 am

If this happened on an Asian carrier, everyone on here would be defending the traveler.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:47 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
That’s the thing. They aren’t paying less. They are paying the same for less. What is my incentive to purchase AA BE vs. NK, F9, or G4?


They're paying less to fly AA. It may not be less than NK, F9 or G4, but it's still less than the normal price on AA. And the advantage of AA BE over NK, F9 or G4 may include frequency & most importantly connections.
They are not paying less. When you factor in all off the restrictions, they are paying the same or even more because they are receiving less for an immaterial price differential.
 
Lrockeagle
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:56 am

afcjets wrote:
silentbob wrote:
Perhaps if he hadn't insulted the reservations agent on the phone, they would have been willing to volunteer more information. Honestly, that's just karma in action.



This is 100% American's fault. If he called in and said he needed to change his flight and they told him he couldn't on that ticket and would have to buy a new ticket, which he did to Dallas, the agent should have told him his entire itinerary would cancel and he would not be able to use his Dallas to Atlanta part of the ticket either, which he did not need to change. He called AA to change/cancel and they basically wouldn't let him, he was not a no-show. I realize it was probably an honest mistake on the agent he called, but AA should have accommodated him somehow getting to ATL based on their agent not giving enough information to assist with is itinerary change.

Dude said himself he hung up quick when she said you can’t do that so how was the agent supposed to know he’s gonna book another flight instead of just not go? I’ve dealt with them A LOT and if you’re sweet to em they will take care of you. Just went to Dublin on miles and had them get me a flight home three days early and they didn’t charge me a penny or take one mile out of my account. And I’m not even gold.

LOL at that guy saying $4000 is an international flight and staying at the FINEST of villas. Hahahaha
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:09 am

AEROFAN wrote:
They are not paying less. When you factor in all off the restrictions, they are paying the same or even more because they are receiving less for an immaterial price differential.


They are paying less. Yes there are restrictions, but what if they don't need luggage or the need to change flights etc etc?

In absolute terms they pay less.

Ziyulu wrote:
If this happened on an Asian carrier, everyone on here would be defending the traveler.


Don't know about the rest, but as an Asian myself I most certainly won't.

Stupid travelers are stupid travelers anywhere.
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EA CO AS
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:14 am

eielef wrote:
I believe the no-show policy is a way of extra revenue for the airline, which should seriously be outlawed.


No, the no-show policy is the airline engaging in loss prevention; after all, if you didn't take the flight to XXX, how are they expecting you'll be able to fly back from XXX? That's why they cancel all downline and return space when you no-show a flight. It enables the airlines to try and re-sell that seat, which helps them keep fares lower than they'd otherwise be.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Kitesandtrains
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:17 am

eielef wrote:
Even what is written, all in capital letters, no spaces, is close to impossible to understand.
E.G. try making sense of this. IF AFTER TICKET HAS BEEN ISSUED AND BEFORE ANY PORTION HAS BEEN USED EITHER A DECREASE IN THE FARES OR CHARGES APPLICABLE TO THE TRANSPORTATION SHOWN ON THE TICKET BECOMES EFFECTIVE/ OR A NEW FARE FOR WHICH THE PASSENGER QUALIFIES IS ADDED BETWEEN THE POINTS SHOWN ON THE TICKET/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES WILL BE REFUNDED AS STATED BELOW/ IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRANSPORTATION VOUCHER/ PROVIDED A

That flood of all caps is indeed physically difficult, for all practical purposes impossible, for me to read with my health being the mess it is these days.

But, actually, I do get what is said in the above excerpt, if fares or fees somewhere on the route which your ticket covers are reduced between the time you buy the ticket and before you use any of the ticket, a voucher equal to that reduction will be issued to you.
 
ikramerica
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:28 am

This is a form of manipulating the system.

Lets say that I know for sure I have to go to city X in October. I know for sure I need to be back by the 21st. But I’m not sure when I can go. So I buy a super cheap roundtrip that returns on the 21st, which may be cheaper than a one-way fare.

Then when I know the outbound, I purchase a much more expensive outbound one way.

If the airline lets me fly my return leg, I’ve now paid much less than I would have for a last minute round-trip fare.

That’s the problem. And short of an affidavit, we can not know if this was the guys plan from the start...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:07 am

EA CO AS wrote:
eielef wrote:
I believe the no-show policy is a way of extra revenue for the airline, which should seriously be outlawed.


No, the no-show policy is the airline engaging in loss prevention; after all, if you didn't take the flight to XXX, how are they expecting you'll be able to fly back from XXX? That's why they cancel all downline and return space when you no-show a flight. It enables the airlines to try and re-sell that seat, which helps them keep fares lower than they'd otherwise be.

Resell the seat that has already been sold and paid for; basically, selling their product twice.
 
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:33 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Resell the seat that has already been sold and paid for; basically, selling their product twice.


And the likelihood of selling that seat diminishes considerably the closer you get to the day of travel.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:52 am

A couple of things.

1. The root cause was definitely poor planning on the passengers' part. Not verifying the wedding details prior to booking, and allowing enough time to make it is asking for trouble.

2. I'm not sure how much latitude the res agents have whether they can prevent the rest of the itinerary getting cancelled after the first no show if they have prior knowledge that the passenger(s) Are travelling that sector on an alternative itinerary. Even if they need to provide the PNR of the alternate itinerary to prove they really are travelling that sector and not bullshiting to get around a hidden city limitation, or otherwise if the itinerary is automatically cancelled with no intervention possible.

3. Third party websites are bad news. It just gets too complicated when things go wrong, and you get the airline and third party telling you to rectify it with each other. Any savings are not worth the hassle I don't even like booking codeshare flights through another airline.

Years ago I was in a situation where back in the Virgin Blue days they flirted with the idea of basic economy way before it came a thing in the US. They called it a "go fare" which had a no changes full stop condition, not even with a fee. I booked one of these fares to Canberra for a weekend trip. A week before the trip I had an unavoidable work commitment come up on the Friday afternoon I was supposed to fly out and there was no chance I could make my flight at 1430. I ended booking a new one-way flight on QF departing at 1900 because that's what fitted my schedule the best. I called the call centre and explained my situation and stressed that I still intended to take my original CBR-BNE return flight on the Sunday night. They assured me that my itinerary wouldn't get cancelled for no showing for the original BNE-CBR flight even though I was now flying down on a competing airline. And sure enough I made it back that Sunday night without an issue. Although maybe I was lucky that all Australian domestic airfares are sold as one way sectors and hidden city ticketing isn't that big of an issue here.
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eielef
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:02 am

EA CO AS wrote:
No, the no-show policy is the airline engaging in loss prevention; after all, if you didn't take the flight to XXX, how are they expecting you'll be able to fly back from XXX? That's why they cancel all downline and return space when you no-show a flight. It enables the airlines to try and re-sell that seat, which helps them keep fares lower than they'd otherwise be.


So in order to prevent losses, the airline sells the same ticket twice, without refunding you anything. In all other business that would be illegal. Say the following: you book and pay a hotel for 3 nights, you don't show up for nights 1 and 2. The hotel still can't sell the room because there is a slightly possibility you'll show up for night 3. If you show up, they'll give you the room, for that last night. And a night the hotel hasn't sold, is revenue they have lost.
An airplane seat unsold sure is a problem, but the seat of this guy was sold, and paid. So he paid and the airline made money, and made the money the airline deemed fair. Now, if the airline could have done more money, that's out of this guys control, and out of this guys problem. He has his return ticket, and even if he hasn't used the first part, the second part should be respected. The condition that voids the whole ticket should be considered illegal, and so is starting to happen at least in some places, like Spain.

Check that the "overbooking" policy, that makes much sense for airlines, is now being restricted. If the overbooking happens in Canada, even if the airline is not a Canadian one, they have to pay over 1700U$S (2400$Canada) to the passenger left on ground. So, does it makes sense to overbook the flights? Not any more (at least I believe so).

Very soon, I hope, a new set of rules will add/explain/change the passenger rights, and this contract that we signed and conditions we accepted (the ones I showed yesterday, in very uncomfortable screenshots) will change. I've sent already (this happened last year) a project of law to a Senator of the Argentine Senate to outlaw certain practices from airlines.
No show was one, Overbooking was another, non-refundable fees was another, fees for changing something basic as the name, or the dates... A few more things, 19 in total...
 
eielef
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:28 am

Some years ago, I checked that the EZE-FCO-EZE flight in AR costed 1500U$S while the ASU-EZE-FCO-EZE-ASU costed 800U$S. So what to do? Easy. Buy a one way ticket to ASU, fly from there to EZE, enjoy Rome, and when you land back in EZE, just leave the airport and loose the second segment.
"hidden city"? This is a totally legal way of traveling, and many have said: maybe the guy's destination wasn't DFW but he did a long connection there. Even if it wasn't, what's so wrong? If you learn how the system works, and finds there is a cheat, like for instance, flying out of ASU saves you 700U$S (half of the price of the flight), why wouldn't you use it? Airlines are massive corporations. If you can cheat them, please do. They will cheat you saying that "this fare permits changes for a fee".

Some years ago, I had such a flight: MAD-CDG-BOG (AF). I went to the AF offices and asked to change it for MAD-CDG-EZE. I said: it says flexible fare, it allows changes and modifications of the route. I was just scared I'd spent too many hours at CDG airport. They told me yes, it is flexible, but these modifications have both a fee of 200U$S and then a different fare, different route, as you have already started your flight... And this and that. Total number: 5200U$S. When a one way flight (MAD-EZE in AR in B744 in the day) was just 600U$S. I had checked how much would it cost to buy a new one way in AF (MAD-CDG-EZE) and it was less than 1000$. So the different fare, and this and that, sometimes is extremely expensive

Lufthansa tried a charging a passenger a very expensive fine for not having flown the last segment, and took the passenger to court and the judge laugh of them. Off course LH lost the trial. Because it is absurd!. You can read more on the matter here https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/l ... ar-BBTvTPr
 
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:00 am

eielef wrote:
Some years ago, I checked that the EZE-FCO-EZE flight in AR costed 1500U$S while the ASU-EZE-FCO-EZE-ASU costed 800U$S. So what to do? Easy. Buy a one way ticket to ASU, fly from there to EZE, enjoy Rome, and when you land back in EZE, just leave the airport and loose the second segment.
"hidden city"? This is a totally legal way of traveling, and many have said: maybe the guy's destination wasn't DFW but he did a long connection there. Even if it wasn't, what's so wrong? If you learn how the system works, and finds there is a cheat, like for instance, flying out of ASU saves you 700U$S (half of the price of the flight), why wouldn't you use it? Airlines are massive corporations. If you can cheat them, please do. They will cheat you saying that "this fare permits changes for a fee".


Well if we follow your analogy, card counting should be allowed & casinos should just let it be - but in reality, you'd be kicked out faster than you can say "hit me".

You think you're cheating the company, but you're only cheating yourself and other passengers, because in the end you're paying for it through higher fares. If airlines can't manage their revenues properly, where do you think they'll make up the shortfall? By jacking up the prices for everybody!

eielef wrote:
So in order to prevent losses, the airline sells the same ticket twice, without refunding you anything. In all other business that would be illegal. Say the following: you book and pay a hotel for 3 nights, you don't show up for nights 1 and 2. The hotel still can't sell the room because there is a slightly possibility you'll show up for night 3. If you show up, they'll give you the room, for that last night. And a night the hotel hasn't sold, is revenue they have lost.


Well you can't cheat the system by booking 3 nights in a hotel & stay only 1 to enjoy lower room rates...

eielef wrote:
Lufthansa tried a charging a passenger a very expensive fine for not having flown the last segment, and took the passenger to court and the judge laugh of them. Off course LH lost the trial. Because it is absurd!. You can read more on the matter here https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/l ... ar-BBTvTPr


Actually I read the court document and the court didn't say that recovery of fare from a hidden city ticket user is illegal. However, the court did say that the airline needs to be more transparent on how much are they going to charge if they discover that the reservation is in fact a hidden city ticket.
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:41 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Well if we follow your analogy, card counting should be allowed & casinos should just let it be - but in reality, you'd be kicked out faster than you can say "hit me".

Casinos are a different thing, and counting cards, at least in UK and US, is not illegal. Even more: Atlantic City casinos in the US state of New Jersey are forbidden from barring card counters as a result of a New Jersey Supreme Court decision. In 1979 Ken Uston, a Blackjack Hall of Fame inductee, filed a lawsuit against an Atlantic City casino, claiming that casinos did not have the right to ban skilled players. The New Jersey Supreme Court agreed, ruling that "the state's control of Atlantic City's casinos is so complete that only the New Jersey Casino Control Commission has the power to make rules to exclude skillful players."

When I was in my last year in high school, a classmate skipped classes to go to a casino. He had been there many times. This time, he won. And won big money, over 6000 U$S. In order to cash his check, the employee of the casino asked him for an ID. This had never happened before, and shouldn't have happened. He showed him, and the clerk said: you are 17, you can't be in a casino, please leave. But didn't want to return his check. My classmate called one of our professors to help him. Professor went and told the casino manager. You see: the fact that you have allowed a student, a minor, to gamble, is already a crime. We have photos and videos of a 17 year old teen gambling. We'll show them to the local TV station. In the end, owner agreed and paid the 6000U$S, which the professor decided would be wise to donate to charity. All the class agreed who to help, and we did an awesome trip to the mountains with books, two computers, a TV set, and more things for children that had nothing. And we also organized a trip for them to visit our city (60km away), and do a tour including visiting McDonalds, a first for most of them. Memorable senior year!

You think you're cheating the company, but you're only cheating yourself and other passengers, because in the end you're paying for it through higher fares. If airlines can't manage their revenues properly, where do you think they'll make up the shortfall? By jacking up the prices for everybody!

The company is cheating you when they don't allow you to fly a segment for which you have already paid! Why can't I cheat the company? I repeat: they were the ones to set the price. I accepted and paid. If it was too cheap, how can I be responsible?

Back to the example of the ASU-EZE-FCO-EZE-ASU route, that costed much less than the EZE-FCO-EZE route. Isn't it weird that 4 segments cost less than 2 segments? Sure it is. Am I the one who decided that? No. Am I the one who forced them to change prices so flying out of ASU has less taxes and less landing fees (I doubt this explains how it can be 700$ cheaper)? No. It is the airline who decided. This absurd pricing programs, that no one understand, and no one should understand, not even the employees of the airline.

Imagine you buy your milk every day in a small shop that charges you 1$, and then you find a large supermarket that sells exactly the same milk for 0,50$. Will you be to blame to buy it in a place where is cheaper? Will you be to blame if in Orbitz or in Expedia the tickets are cheaper, or you like the website more? No. In the current culture, the customer must always be right. Thats why when taken to trial, airlines (albeit having very powerful lawyers) tend to loose. I've quoted recent examples, one about no-show in Spain and another about "hidden cities" in Germany, where the airline and it's powerful legal team lost.

Unfortunately, it is not easy to sue an airline. It costs a lot of money and time and requires a lot of knowledge. Even, in the current case, we don't have all the information. Something I deeply hate is why airlines still use the telephone for changes or bookings. They warn you in advance: this conversation might be recorded. So I also warn them in advance: this conversation is being recorded. Because then, how can you remember all the details, how much are you going to pay, what is included, what not, etc? And we are speaking of big bucks now, sometimes many thousands U$S. How can we be sure the passenger who hates AA didn't heard correctly, or forgot to mention, or decided to lie and not to mention the employee told him about the no-show policy, or didn't? If taken to court, airline will say: we told him. He will say they didn't. Judge will ask: any tape of the conversation? Who has it? The airline, which, is inconvenient, could quote it is too old and has been erased.

Well you can't cheat the system by booking 3 nights in a hotel & stay only 1 to enjoy lower room rates...

I didn't want to cheat the system. I arrived two days late to the hotel. What's so wrong with that? I've paid for them. Why can't I use it? In my last awful experience, with a car rental company, a prebooked expensive car, they told me that it had no insurance to leave Spain and that in order to drive to Italy, I had to rent a new car, with a new booking number, and the previous one booking had no more effect, but I wasn't entitled to any refund. I got seriously angry. So I say: ok, give me the car anyway. Are you still going to rent the car and not go to Italy? I said: sure, I'll take the car, park it across the street, and bring you the keys back in 12 days. I've paid for it, so can't I do it? In the end, I didn't do it because they wanted a 1500EUR deposit (and my card is would be poor for the second car). At the end, the company did as a more or less good price in the second rental, and as we divided the bill in four, it wasn't so much!.

Actually I read the court document and the court didn't say that recovery of fare from a hidden city ticket user is illegal. However, the court did say that the airline needs to be more transparent on how much are they going to charge if they discover that the reservation is in fact a hidden city ticket.
[/quote]
Thanks for correcting me. I'm sure there is more of this story besides of what the news posted.
 
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vhqpa
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:45 am

I just did a dummy booking on Orbitz from Kansas City, MO to Tucson, AZ (two non hub cities I picked at random), and while they don't expicitly state it as a Basic Economy fare it clearly shows the fare conditions and bag fees on the flight selection page. So it's not a case of Orbitz not displaying the conditions correctly.

Image
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
FlyHappy
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:55 am

atpg5 wrote:
If American Airlines sold paint:


OMG. I think I love you.
But to be fair, it really should be, "If any airlines sold paint:"
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:19 am

eielef wrote:
Back to the example of the ASU-EZE-FCO-EZE-ASU route, that costed much less than the EZE-FCO-EZE route. Isn't it weird that 4 segments cost less than 2 segments? Sure it is. Am I the one who decided that? No. Am I the one who forced them to change prices so flying out of ASU has less taxes and less landing fees (I doubt this explains how it can be 700$ cheaper)? No. It is the airline who decided. This absurd pricing programs, that no one understand, and no one should understand, not even the employees of the airline.


It's supply and demand, it's utterly simple.

Let me give you an example closer to my base. SIN-KUL-LHR on MH is cheaper than KUL-LHR. I can simply hop on a bus, travel to SIN & catch the flight from there to save a lot of money. In fact an acquaintance of mine did exactly that some time ago. Is the pricing logical? For the airline, absolutely! Because who in SIN wants to fly via KUL when they can fly directly on SQ/BA? Only price sensitive leisure travelers do! Low prices from SIN are done to stimulate demand & feed the hub in KUL.

This is revenue management in a nutshell. And the reason why no show/hidden city restrictions are put into place. When even a single dollar can make the difference between profit & loss, you bet airlines will do everything they can to tilt the scales in their favour.

eielef wrote:
Imagine you buy your milk every day in a small shop that charges you 1$, and then you find a large supermarket that sells exactly the same milk for 0,50$.


Again, a flight is not like a tangible good like milk. The comparison is simply wrong.
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MIflyer12
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:13 am

shaner82 wrote:
I would like to see the no show policy challenged in court. It's completely unreasonable and possibly illegal. Fine print doesn't absolve the airlines of their legal responsibilities. There's no cost to the airline when a pax doesn't show up. In fact, the airline will possibly sell that seat a second time, increasing revenue. There's no reason they need to sell the return ticket as well.


If you're a U.S. resident, buy a ticket, no-show, and sue. You'll be opposed by every lawyer the carrier, IATA, and Airlines for America can muster. I don't think you'll win. Your consumer logic does not override contract law.

The Federal Trade Commission could probably rule that no-show provisions and hidden city/throwaway restrictions are 'unfair', an important description given the enabling legislation of the FTC. But it hasn't.
 
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:48 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
eielef wrote:

Well you can't cheat the system by booking 3 nights in a hotel & stay only 1 to enjoy lower room rates...


You won't need to do that with a hotel. A hotel or any other business would sell their product at the lower rate. Only the airline industry has made a living on predatory pricing and policies.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:01 am

AEROFAN wrote:
You won't need to do that with a hotel. A hotel or any other business would sell their product at the lower rate. Only the airline industry has made a living on predatory pricing and policies.


Nope. Hotels do the same pricing strategy too. You just didn't notice it.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
Kno
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:13 am

IF the customer was actually polite in handling this with agents on the phone it would have been nice if an exception was made on a human to human basis.

BUT this traveler isn’t entitled to being the exception to clearly outlined rules and it’s possible they didn’t handle it well on the phone given their attitude about the whole situation.

If money spent is a huge issue and I would think you’d take some basic and obvious precautions while buying said ticket.

Orbitz and other 3rd parties do clearly warn you when you are buying a basic ticket and what the restrictions are. If you ignore the warning it’s nobodies fault but your own.
 
Lrockeagle
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:05 pm

eielef wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
No, the no-show policy is the airline engaging in loss prevention; after all, if you didn't take the flight to XXX, how are they expecting you'll be able to fly back from XXX? That's why they cancel all downline and return space when you no-show a flight. It enables the airlines to try and re-sell that seat, which helps them keep fares lower than they'd otherwise be.


So in order to prevent losses, the airline sells the same ticket twice, without refunding you anything. In all other business that would be illegal. Say the following: you book and pay a hotel for 3 nights, you don't show up for nights 1 and 2. The hotel still can't sell the room because there is a slightly possibility you'll show up for night 3. If you show up, they'll give you the room, for that last night. And a night the hotel hasn't sold, is revenue they have lost.
An airplane seat unsold sure is a problem, but the seat of this guy was sold, and paid. So he paid and the airline made money, and made the money the airline deemed fair. Now, if the airline could have done more money, that's out of this guys control, and out of this guys problem. He has his return ticket, and even if he hasn't used the first part, the second part should be respected. The condition that voids the whole ticket should be considered illegal, and so is starting to happen at least in some places, like Spain.

Check that the "overbooking" policy, that makes much sense for airlines, is now being restricted. If the overbooking happens in Canada, even if the airline is not a Canadian one, they have to pay over 1700U$S (2400$Canada) to the passenger left on ground. So, does it makes sense to overbook the flights? Not any more (at least I believe so).

Very soon, I hope, a new set of rules will add/explain/change the passenger rights, and this contract that we signed and conditions we accepted (the ones I showed yesterday, in very uncomfortable screenshots) will change. I've sent already (this happened last year) a project of law to a Senator of the Argentine Senate to outlaw certain practices from airlines.
No show was one, Overbooking was another, non-refundable fees was another, fees for changing something basic as the name, or the dates... A few more things, 19 in total...

At my job we frequently get called out in the afternoon/evening and have to work all night. We have hotel reservations set up for the day/night we travel in case some people are able to go get some sleep. We ALWAYS designate someone to call the hotel and let them know that we will not be there until the morning so they know not to give our rooms away. Because they will in a heartbeat when we don’t show when they expect us
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
WayexTDI
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:50 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Resell the seat that has already been sold and paid for; basically, selling their product twice.


And the likelihood of selling that seat diminishes considerably the closer you get to the day of travel.

But who cares? It's already been sold, revenue has already been pocketed.
If the first pax had never bought the seat, there are chances too that this seat would have never been sold at all. Nothing, nada, zilch; something is always better than nothing, and twice as much is much better.
 
Glom
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Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:58 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Resell the seat that has already been sold and paid for; basically, selling their product twice.


And the likelihood of selling that seat diminishes considerably the closer you get to the day of travel.

But who cares? It's already been sold, revenue has already been pocketed.
If the first pax had never bought the seat, there are chances too that this seat would have never been sold at all. Nothing, nada, zilch; something is always better than nothing, and twice as much is much better.


Yes. I'm with you. I don't see the problem for the airline. They have the money. Greenbacks in hand. How are they disadvantaged by him not using the ticket he already paid for compared to him using it? They have the money either way. That they could have sold it for a higher price to someone else is irrelevant. That applies even if he showed up. He paid what they asked him to pay. They got the money. I don't understand this revenue management thing about people who already paid not showing up. They airline already got the revenue they expected.

Also, what is hidden city ticket?
 
WayexTDI
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:03 pm

Glom wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

And the likelihood of selling that seat diminishes considerably the closer you get to the day of travel.

But who cares? It's already been sold, revenue has already been pocketed.
If the first pax had never bought the seat, there are chances too that this seat would have never been sold at all. Nothing, nada, zilch; something is always better than nothing, and twice as much is much better.


Yes. I'm with you. I don't see the problem for the airline. They have the money. Greenbacks in hand. How are they disadvantaged by him not using the ticket he already paid for compared to him using it? They have the money either way. That they could have sold it for a higher price to someone else is irrelevant. That applies even if he showed up. He paid what they asked him to pay. They got the money. I don't understand this revenue management thing about people who already paid not showing up. They airline already got the revenue they expected.

Also, what is hidden city ticket?

Hidden city ticketing is pax buying A-B-C vs buying A-B as A-B-C is cheaper, but never intend to fly to C.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 589
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: “Dear American Airlines, I Hate You With My Whole Heart.” writes disgruntled traveler

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:16 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
If AA accommodates him, then every one else will come in with a sob story like that to get the same treatment.


There, in that one comment, you've summed up much that is rubbish about the airline industry.

"If AA accommodates him then every other customer will come in and expect to be helped" - which is exactly how it should be. His wasn't a sob story.He accepted that he had to pay more. He did pay more. He wasn't trying to cheat AA. He clearly wasn't trying to do a "hidden city". Why would it be so wrong for AA to give a monkey's and actually give some customer service?

I know, you've already said it, because then every other Tom, Dick and Harry would want some customer service. How dare they.

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