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enilria
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Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:08 pm

Delta didn’t send anyone interestingly. This is purportedly about Air Italy, of course Delta is poised to own part of AZ and is already in a JV with them.

—-President Donald Trump is poised to meet with the heads of American Airlines Group Inc., United Airlines Holdings Inc. and Qatar Airways to discuss competition issues amid a long-running feud pitting the U.S. carriers against their Persian Gulf rivals, people familiar with the matter said. Vice President Mike Pence will also attend the meeting Thursday afternoon with American Chief Executive Officer Doug Parker and United’s Oscar Munoz, said the people, including a White House official, who asked not to be named ahead of the private discussions. American, United and Delta Air Lines Inc. have long argued that government subsidies enable Qatar Airways, Emirates and Etihad Airways to compete unfairly.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... e-showdown
 
strfyr51
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:19 pm

So? Now they've gone to Trump.. Ain't this something? So ? How much did the Emir offer Trump to set this UP? And? What's Pence's Take in this?
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:26 pm

Can't we just all be happy that all the sides are coming together to talk and try to come to a compromise that everyone can accept? That's how things should be. Sit down, discuss your differences and come up with an amicable solution. There is no need to bash or belittle anyone involved with the talks - Be it the airlines or President Trump.
Whatever
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:34 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:

Can't we just all be happy that all the sides are coming together to talk and try to come to a compromise that everyone can accept? That's how things should be. Sit down, discuss your differences and come up with an amicable solution. There is no need to bash or belittle anyone involved with the talks - Be it the airlines or President Trump.


Not considering who is involved. No.
Finally headed to DORKFEST! Sept 7, STL-LAX-PHX-STL. :cloudnine:
 
flybry
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:21 pm

The US carriers are being pathetic. They get subsidies too!!!!
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:46 pm

Why must every.... single.... little.... freakin' THING that involves this man be viewed as evil right out of the gate. Can someone here please at least try to be objective?
Great Lakes, great life.
 
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enilria
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:58 pm

This thread so far crystallizes why compromise is dead. Even the thought of people you don’t like talking is horrific. For the love of god, if they settled their differences there’d be nothing to argue about. Can’t have that. I’d LOL, but it’s too sad.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:59 pm

enilria wrote:

—-President Donald Trump is poised to meet with the heads of American Airlines Group Inc., United Airlines Holdings Inc. and Qatar Airways to discuss competition issues amid a long-running feud pitting the U.S. carriers against their Persian Gulf rivals, people familiar with the matter said.


What's there to lose by simply having a face-to-face meeting? Have any of the US3 had direct conversations with QR? Has QR ever laid out their case with documents or has everyone just been taking their word for things in the past? Other than having a very inexpensive labor pool to pick from in DOH (or UAE for that matter) I'd be very interested to hear what the US3 have to show as proof that there is substantial Qatar govt. support.

If everyone is meeting with the President, you can bet they'll all have their respective ducks in a row.

For those open-minded ones on there that have already determined the outcome of the meeting, I'd recommend waiting for the meeting to actually occur first.
Every zoo is a petting zoo......if you're a man!
 
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enilria
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:28 am

This makes it sound like QR didn’t attend the meeting.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1UD39G
 
downdata
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:43 am

enilria wrote:
This makes it sound like QR didn’t attend the meeting.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1UD39G


Also sounds like a waste of time and no change from the status quo
 
fightforlove
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:19 am

Is it just me, or is Trump the first President who seems to be involved in every major airline deal??

Why does everything have to be political nowadays???

And when can we expect to hear Bernie Sanders' and AOC's opinions on this QR-US3 meeting? :stirthepot: :spin:
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:21 am

After all the whining, I'm actually happy DL didn't send anyone.
@DadCelo
 
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enilria
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:07 pm

downdata wrote:
enilria wrote:
This makes it sound like QR didn’t attend the meeting.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1UD39G


Also sounds like a waste of time and no change from the status quo

I'm hearing that everybody agreed not to really talk about the meeting. Not sure why.
 
spannacomo
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:39 pm

some reaction here:
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-airline-ceos-meet-trump-white-house-open-skies-qatar-2019-7?IR=T
it looks like US travel association is opposing US3 plans
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:42 pm

flybry wrote:
The US carriers are being pathetic. They get subsidies too!!!!

No they don’t.
 
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enilria
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:58 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
flybry wrote:
The US carriers are being pathetic. They get subsidies too!!!!

No they don’t.

#1 : They explicitly took subsidies in the form of loan guarantees from the Federal Govt as recently as 2002.
#2 : The USA is one of the few countries in the world with government owned airports, whereas in most countries the airports must operate as a business. That is not the case in the USA. In the cases where the airports lose money it is because they are charging airlines rates below their cost which *IS* a government subsidy. In fact, the Partnership for Open Skies accuses the UAE of doing the exact same thing with its government owned airport in DXB. Airport-World magazine says "the majority of airports lose money". http://www.airport-world.com/features/e ... ility.html
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:06 pm

enilria wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
flybry wrote:
The US carriers are being pathetic. They get subsidies too!!!!

No they don’t.

#1 : They explicitly took subsidies in the form of loan guarantees from the Federal Govt as recently as 2002.
#2 : The USA is one of the few countries in the world with government owned airports, whereas in most countries the airports must operate as a business. That is not the case in the USA. In the cases where the airports lose money it is because they are charging airlines rates below their cost which *IS* a government subsidy. In fact, the Partnership for Open Skies accuses the UAE of doing the exact same thing with its government owned airport in DXB. Airport-World magazine says "the majority of airports lose money". http://www.airport-world.com/features/e ... ility.html

A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money. For example US Airways borrowed the money from Citibank

The Airlines pay rent and landing fees. They dont operate for free and the airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds.
 
maverick4002
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:08 pm

GSPSPOT wrote:
Why must every.... single.... little.... freakin' THING that involves this man be viewed as evil right out of the gate. Can someone here please at least try to be objective?


NO
 
CALMSP
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:10 pm

outside of the US3 vs. ME3, I'm rather sick of the US3 leaders continuing to say "losing/taking away US jobs".....that is complete BS and never any evidence of such. We can take a look at what UA did with its recent Q2 results, or the fact that they are now reducing their outstation personnel from UA to UGE.......at a lower pay scale. Its kinda reached a ridiculous level of hypocrisy.
 
bgm
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:12 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
No they don’t.

#1 : They explicitly took subsidies in the form of loan guarantees from the Federal Govt as recently as 2002.
#2 : The USA is one of the few countries in the world with government owned airports, whereas in most countries the airports must operate as a business. That is not the case in the USA. In the cases where the airports lose money it is because they are charging airlines rates below their cost which *IS* a government subsidy. In fact, the Partnership for Open Skies accuses the UAE of doing the exact same thing with its government owned airport in DXB. Airport-World magazine says "the majority of airports lose money". http://www.airport-world.com/features/e ... ility.html

A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money. For example US Airways borrowed the money from Citibank

The Airlines pay rent and landing fees. They dont operate for free and the airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds.


Chapter 11.

Not unique to just US airlines, but it's most definitely a 'get out of jail free' card when the US3 were deeply in the red. Just ask the employees of the US carriers who lost so much after the spate of post 9/11 ch11 bankruptcies.
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
flybry
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:36 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
enilria wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
No they don’t.

#1 : They explicitly took subsidies in the form of loan guarantees from the Federal Govt as recently as 2002.
#2 : The USA is one of the few countries in the world with government owned airports, whereas in most countries the airports must operate as a business. That is not the case in the USA. In the cases where the airports lose money it is because they are charging airlines rates below their cost which *IS* a government subsidy. In fact, the Partnership for Open Skies accuses the UAE of doing the exact same thing with its government owned airport in DXB. Airport-World magazine says "the majority of airports lose money". http://www.airport-world.com/features/e ... ility.html

A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money. For example US Airways borrowed the money from Citibank

The Airlines pay rent and landing fees. They dont operate for free and the airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds.



Um, United unloaded its pensions on the taxpayers while in bankruptcy. You and I subsidize that.
 
flybry
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:39 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
flybry wrote:
The US carriers are being pathetic. They get subsidies too!!!!

No they don’t.


Yes they do
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:55 pm

bgm wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
enilria wrote:
#1 : They explicitly took subsidies in the form of loan guarantees from the Federal Govt as recently as 2002.
#2 : The USA is one of the few countries in the world with government owned airports, whereas in most countries the airports must operate as a business. That is not the case in the USA. In the cases where the airports lose money it is because they are charging airlines rates below their cost which *IS* a government subsidy. In fact, the Partnership for Open Skies accuses the UAE of doing the exact same thing with its government owned airport in DXB. Airport-World magazine says "the majority of airports lose money". http://www.airport-world.com/features/e ... ility.html

A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money. For example US Airways borrowed the money from Citibank

The Airlines pay rent and landing fees. They dont operate for free and the airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds.


Chapter 11.

Not unique to just US airlines, but it's most definitely a 'get out of jail free' card when the US3 were deeply in the red. Just ask the employees of the US carriers who lost so much after the spate of post 9/11 ch11 bankruptcies.

I worked for for US Airways and was a Negotiator for the IAM, please show me how the government gave the airlines when they filed chapter 11 twice.

Funny the things I remember is the employees taking billion dollars in concessions than the Feds giving the airlines a handout.
Last edited by Boof02671 on Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:57 pm

flybry wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
enilria wrote:
#1 : They explicitly took subsidies in the form of loan guarantees from the Federal Govt as recently as 2002.
#2 : The USA is one of the few countries in the world with government owned airports, whereas in most countries the airports must operate as a business. That is not the case in the USA. In the cases where the airports lose money it is because they are charging airlines rates below their cost which *IS* a government subsidy. In fact, the Partnership for Open Skies accuses the UAE of doing the exact same thing with its government owned airport in DXB. Airport-World magazine says "the majority of airports lose money". http://www.airport-world.com/features/e ... ility.html

A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money. For example US Airways borrowed the money from Citibank

The Airlines pay rent and landing fees. They dont operate for free and the airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds.



Um, United unloaded its pensions on the taxpayers while in bankruptcy. You and I subsidize that.

Wrong my pension was terminated also at US Airways, learn how the PBGC works, one when a pension is terminated the airlines had to issue stock to the PBGC to make up for the shortfall, not tax dollars.

And the PBGC is funded by insurance fees paid to them by every defined benefit plan, not tax dollars.
 
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enilria
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:03 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money. For example US Airways borrowed the money from Citibank

The Airlines pay rent and landing fees. They dont operate for free and the airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds.

>A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money.
Oh then the ME3 aren't subsidized either. Getting low interest loans through government backed borrowing is one of the complaints lodged against the ME3.
>airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds
To me it isn't surprising that airlines have to fund their own bonds.
>The Airlines pay rent and landing fees.
The fees are supposed to be set to result in the airport breaking even or making a profit. That is what a capitalist enterprise looks like. When they are set below cost and the government makes up the difference it is a government subsidy.
bgm wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
enilria wrote:
#1 : They explicitly took subsidies in the form of loan guarantees from the Federal Govt as recently as 2002.
#2 : The USA is one of the few countries in the world with government owned airports, whereas in most countries the airports must operate as a business. That is not the case in the USA. In the cases where the airports lose money it is because they are charging airlines rates below their cost which *IS* a government subsidy. In fact, the Partnership for Open Skies accuses the UAE of doing the exact same thing with its government owned airport in DXB. Airport-World magazine says "the majority of airports lose money". http://www.airport-world.com/features/e ... ility.html

A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money. For example US Airways borrowed the money from Citibank

The Airlines pay rent and landing fees. They dont operate for free and the airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds.


Chapter 11.

Not unique to just US airlines, but it's most definitely a 'get out of jail free' card when the US3 were deeply in the red. Just ask the employees of the US carriers who lost so much after the spate of post 9/11 ch11 bankruptcies.

Another good point. The US3 pushing their pension obligations on the U.S. government (PBGC) is potentially explicit subsidy and I'm not aware of any other country that has allowed that for their airlines. The PBGC is massively underfunded and the GAO says it needs taxpayer funds to save it from insolvency. They are $50 billion in the red. https://www.gao.gov/highrisk/pension_be ... _did_study
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:09 pm

The PBGC is funded by fees on the defined benefit plans and stocks issued by the companies, not tax dollars.

The PBGC is not a full government agency it’s like semi-public.

I dealt with as a IAM rep and as a collector of a terminated pension.
 
bgm
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:37 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
The PBGC is funded by fees on the defined benefit plans and stocks issued by the companies, not tax dollars.

The PBGC is not a full government agency it’s like semi-public.

I dealt with as a IAM rep and as a collector of a terminated pension.


Ask yourself this: without the protection of chapter 11, where would these airlines be?

The ME3, nor anyone else outside the US has this benefit so you could definitely see how it’s not exactly a level playing field, is it?
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:44 pm

Chapter 11 is a bankruptcy law, it costs airlines millions in fees to file, and every country has their own version of it.

Isn’t Alitalia in bankruptcy, gee they are in Italy.

https://bankruptcy.laws.com/international-laws

Funny this article lists numerous countries with bankruptcy laws.

https://www.ifo.de/DocDL/dicereport106-forum2.pdf

Concessions, elimination and reduction of debt and Debtor in Possession financing pays for it, not the Federal Government.

And yes other airlines who are outside of the US who have codeshare and joint venture agreements most certainly do benefit.

And PBGC stands for Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation.
 
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enilria
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:29 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Chapter 11 is a bankruptcy law, it costs airlines millions in fees to file, and every country has their own version of it.

Actually no, plenty of countries do not have the concept of Chapter 11.

From Wikipedia...
Canada doesn't even have it: "In Canada, bankruptcy always means liquidation. There is no way for a company to emerge from bankruptcy after restructuring, as is the case in the United States with a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing."

Europe did not have a Chapter 11 equivalent prior to 2013: "Following the soar in insolvencies in the last decade, a number of European countries, such as France, Germany, Spain and Italy, began to revamp their bankruptcy laws in 2013. They modelled these new laws after the image of Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code."
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:36 pm

enilria wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Chapter 11 is a bankruptcy law, it costs airlines millions in fees to file, and every country has their own version of it.

Actually no, plenty of countries do not have the concept of Chapter 11.

From Wikipedia...
Canada doesn't even have it: "In Canada, bankruptcy always means liquidation. There is no way for a company to emerge from bankruptcy after restructuring, as is the case in the United States with a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing."

Europe did not have a Chapter 11 equivalent prior to 2013: "Following the soar in insolvencies in the last decade, a number of European countries, such as France, Germany, Spain and Italy, began to revamp their bankruptcy laws in 2013. They modelled these new laws after the image of Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code."

Then explain how Air Canada filed in 2003 and is still in business?

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/02/busi ... ction.html

Then how did Rolls Royce file way before 2013?

https://ecommons.udayton.edu/cgi/viewco ... st_fac_pub

Shall I continue to refute you country by country?

Guess you didn’t click on the link to show all the countries that have it and shows years that had it prior to the article written.


https://www.ifo.de/DocDL/dicereport106-forum2.pdf
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:09 pm

U.S. carriers Nickled and dimed the U.S. consumer and with all the mergers there is little choice. While Delta service is reasonable, AA and UA provide awful customer service and inflight care. It is great to see quality airlines like QR provide competition to the U.S.

U.S. airlines have been given so many breaks over the years, while providing poor customer service to U.S. travelers. Hope we see many more foreign carriers provide more competition to international destinations.
 
flybry
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:15 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
flybry wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
A loan that was paid back under the ATSB program is not a subsidy, the airlines borrowed the money from the banks, paid it back a loan guarantee doesn’t cost the government money. For example US Airways borrowed the money from Citibank

The Airlines pay rent and landing fees. They dont operate for free and the airlines even help fund and underwrite airline bonds.



Um, United unloaded its pensions on the taxpayers while in bankruptcy. You and I subsidize that.

Wrong my pension was terminated also at US Airways, learn how the PBGC works, one when a pension is terminated the airlines had to issue stock to the PBGC to make up for the shortfall, not tax dollars.

And the PBGC is funded by insurance fees paid to them by every defined benefit plan, not tax dollars.


I said United.. I don’t know how US Airways worked.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:04 pm

It works the same way for every defined benefit plan that gets terminated, no matter what company does it.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:13 pm

Is $5.5M over two years to fly IND-CDG a subsidy for Delta?

https://centreforaviation.com/analysis/reports/delta-air-lines-shifts-its-non-hub-flights-serving-paris-476712

The package Delta forged with the Indiana Economic Development Cooperation included up to USD5.5 million over a two year period – USD3.5 million in the first year and USD2 million in the second, based on the number of passengers the flights garnered. During year one, Delta would receive USD110 per round trip passenger that boards the flight and USD70 per round trip the second year.

The publication recently reported that it took less than a year for Delta to earn the USD3.5 million in the incentive agreement.


How about fuel taxes waived for Delta in Atlanta?
 
etoile
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:37 pm

Bigstud69 wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
Why must every.... single.... little.... freakin' THING that involves this man be viewed as evil right out of the gate. Can someone here please at least try to be objective?

It's called Trump derangement syndrome.


Objectively, there's no reason for a president to become involved in an industrial policy dispute among a few companies. Why is the current occupant getting involved in this dispute, among the thousands of other ones that exist? (Might it be because of the relationship that a senior advisor has with the Qatari political leadership and the Qatari investment fund? Remember that under the normal process, Kushner wouldn't have a security clearance.) What does the current occupant know about direct and indirect subsidies (aside from bankruptcy and property tax breaks)?

So when the current occupant gets involved in stuff that he knows nothing about, on a highly selective basis, where there is prima facie indication of untoward influence, we can't assume that the occupant's participation in this meeting is benign or ordinary course.
 
Lootess
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:43 pm

Considering Trump owned what is now the AA shuttle, he's got some weight on it. Taking your outrageous emotions out of the picture and being objective, that's not a bad credential to have.

flybry wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
flybry wrote:
The US carriers are being pathetic. They get subsidies too!!!!

No they don’t.


Yes they do


No they don't, federal loan guarantees is just what it is, a guaranteed loan which they paid back with interest.
Last edited by Lootess on Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bigstud69
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:43 pm

"current occupant" I think we refer to him as President Trump.

I can see your TDS limits your world view based on your fictional thinking.
The President is hosting a meeting nothing more. Either way his involvement is a good thing.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:26 pm

American Airlines CEO Issues Statement Following White House Meeting with President Trump

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... trump.html
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:40 pm

enilria wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
flybry wrote:
The US carriers are being pathetic. They get subsidies too!!!!

No they don’t.

#2 : The USA is one of the few countries in the world with government owned airports, whereas in most countries the airports must operate as a business. That is not the case in the USA. In the cases where the airports lose money it is because they are charging airlines rates below their cost which *IS* a government subsidy. In fact, the Partnership for Open Skies accuses the UAE of doing the exact same thing with its government owned airport in DXB. Airport-World magazine says "the majority of airports lose money". http://www.airport-world.com/features/e ... ility.html


I know DL is spending well north of $1B annually for the next decade on airport infrastructure projects. Factor that as an inverse to government airport subsidization and it's effect on landing fees/ leases vs potentially higher fees with privately ran airports. How much is Emirates contributing for their 82 billion new airport?

Doesnt really matter when the Airline is owned by the Group, that is owned by the Investment Corp that is run by Al Maktoum, who governs the airport which bears his name, the regulatory agencies, and just about every other aspect of the home field. I get your point, the US3 aren't free of government support. The hypocrisy is there in principle, hence your argument. But let's not pretend this is even close to comparable on the level of support or aid. ME3 are psuedo state run companies, with Open Skies agreements only because of clever accounting. If they didn't have so many mutually beneficial interests in geography, politics, and energy, that Open Skies agreement would likely already be toast.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:58 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Can't we just all be happy that all the sides are coming together to talk and try to come to a compromise that everyone can accept? That's how things should be. Sit down, discuss your differences and come up with an amicable solution. There is no need to bash or belittle anyone involved with the talks - Be it the airlines or President Trump.


So true. It’s time raise the bar
Last edited by grbauc on Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:09 pm

Time to openly call out the State owned Chinese carriers and the massive subsidies they get. US3 will be quickly implicated. China will probably retaliate in contrast to Qatar et al
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 17279
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:20 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
American Airlines CEO Issues Statement Following White House Meeting with President Trump

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... trump.html


So a big fat nothing burger. Just more whining by AA & UA?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:22 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Time to openly call out the State owned Chinese carriers and the massive subsidies they get. US3 will be quickly implicated. China will probably retaliate in contrast to Qatar et al

But they buy lots of Boeings
 
Cactusjuba
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 am

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:43 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Time to openly call out the State owned Chinese carriers and the massive subsidies they get. US3 will be quickly implicated. China will probably retaliate in contrast to Qatar et al


Do the Chinese have Open Skies agreements with the USA? Educate yourself on what the complaint is about. Chinese can be subsidized 100% under current agreements without any complaints.

ME3 can be 100% subsidized too. Just cannot within the Open Skies trade agreement.
 
ASA
Posts: 1082
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:49 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Time to openly call out the State owned Chinese carriers and the massive subsidies they get. US3 will be quickly implicated. China will probably retaliate in contrast to Qatar et al

But they buy lots of Boeings


WTF ... are you for real? Hope you are kidding ... :confused:

So all those arguments about subsidies ... can be selectively applied?

And .. is China the only one buying Boeings? What about EK and QR?
 
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Dieuwer
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:51 pm

Let us all Tweet Trump directly and demand tariffs on Chinese airliners. Would be fun to watch the fallout.
 
etoile
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:22 am

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:11 pm

Bigstud69 wrote:
Either way his involvement is a good thing.


What "ways" are you referring to, and why is his involvement a good thing?
 
bgm
Posts: 2107
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:17 pm

scbriml wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
American Airlines CEO Issues Statement Following White House Meeting with President Trump

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... trump.html


So a big fat nothing burger. Just more whining by AA & UA?


Looks like it. Just hot air with no results.
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Cdydatzigs
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 3:31 pm

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:22 pm

fightforlove wrote:
Is it just me, or is Trump the first President who seems to be involved in every major airline deal??


He loves to stick his nose where it doesn't belong, that's why.
 
Capt.Fantastic
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 1999 4:01 am

Re: Trump Hosts Meeting b/w QR and the U.S. Carriers

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:09 pm

The US3 can compete, if they upped their game, offered superior hard and soft products and became passenger focused - but that would cut into their profits... so, instead, they launch this propaganda campaign accusing EK and QR of taking American jobs: and, like little spoiled brats, they whine about the big bad foreigners not playing fair (pouty face). Gimmie a break.
I actually wish the ME3 flew domestic, maybe that would entice US carriers to halt their race to the bottom.

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