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A321Lufthansa
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Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:13 am

Austrian has recently announced in their Twitter that they are going to get the first "new" A320s already in August instead of January. Are the MSNs already known?
https://twitter.com/_austrian/status/1152126471202324481
Last flown aircrafts: A320 OE-LBO < A21N CS-TJO < A21N CS-TXC < E190 CS-TPQ < A319 F-GRXC < A321 F-GTAH < B738 SP-LWF < E175 SP-LII < A320 OE-LBL < A320 OE-LBU < A319 OE-LDE < A320 OE-LBZ < A320 D-AIPL < A319 D-AIBA
 
oschkosch
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:48 am

Finally getting rid of them old Dash!

A total of 10 additional jets are to replace the 18 Dash 8-400 turboprop aircraft by 2021. We will thus increase our Airbus fleet from 36 to 46 aircraft.
:stirthepot: :airplane: "This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys" :airplane: :stirthepot:
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:54 am

Apparently two are coming from HO (Juneyao Air) and the balance from O6. Since O6 has literally all of their planes seized already I'm not surprised by the speed of delivery.

Michael
 
oschkosch
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:59 am

Correct. Coming from China and Brazil.
Report in German language: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/austrian- ... -und-china

New regs known are:
OE-LZA
OE-LZB
OE-LZC
OE-LZD
OE-LZE
OE-LZF
:stirthepot: :airplane: "This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys" :airplane: :stirthepot:
 
jghealey
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:04 pm

It seems the aircraft are PR-ONK,ONL,ONS,ONT and B-6341,6340
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:15 pm

That's going to be quite a jump if they are replacing their Q400s with A320s. If I am not wrong that's a jump from 74 seats to 174! I wonder if they will start trimming their frequencies. Also I guess more and more OS flights will be boarding from remote stands as I don't think they'll have enough air-bridges for the growing Airbus fleet, especially in the morning when they have their north American flights departing.
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:26 pm

Blerg wrote:
That's going to be quite a jump if they are replacing their Q400s with A320s. If I am not wrong that's a jump from 74 seats to 174! I wonder if they will start trimming their frequencies. Also I guess more and more OS flights will be boarding from remote stands as I don't think they'll have enough air-bridges for the growing Airbus fleet, especially in the morning when they have their north American flights departing.

The routes operated by Q400s will be upgraded to E195s.
Last flown aircrafts: A320 OE-LBO < A21N CS-TJO < A21N CS-TXC < E190 CS-TPQ < A319 F-GRXC < A321 F-GTAH < B738 SP-LWF < E175 SP-LII < A320 OE-LBL < A320 OE-LBU < A319 OE-LDE < A320 OE-LBZ < A320 D-AIPL < A319 D-AIBA
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:35 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
Blerg wrote:
That's going to be quite a jump if they are replacing their Q400s with A320s. If I am not wrong that's a jump from 74 seats to 174! I wonder if they will start trimming their frequencies. Also I guess more and more OS flights will be boarding from remote stands as I don't think they'll have enough air-bridges for the growing Airbus fleet, especially in the morning when they have their north American flights departing.

The routes operated by Q400s will be upgraded to E195s.


Ok, that makes more sense but still, adding 10 more A320s is still a pretty large increase in overall capacity. I wonder what they plan on doing with them and where they will deploy them.
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:47 pm

oschkosch wrote:
Correct. Coming from China and Brazil.
Report in German language: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/austrian- ... -und-china

New regs known are:
OE-LZA
OE-LZB
OE-LZC
OE-LZD
OE-LZE
OE-LZF

The aircrafts from Juneyao are to come first but according to planespotters.net they are still active for them while all ex-Avianca are stored. Will they succeed with fast grounding and re-configuration? To the new Geven seats, as I understand?
Last flown aircrafts: A320 OE-LBO < A21N CS-TJO < A21N CS-TXC < E190 CS-TPQ < A319 F-GRXC < A321 F-GTAH < B738 SP-LWF < E175 SP-LII < A320 OE-LBL < A320 OE-LBU < A319 OE-LDE < A320 OE-LBZ < A320 D-AIPL < A319 D-AIBA
 
jghealey
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:12 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
Correct. Coming from China and Brazil.
Report in German language: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/austrian- ... -und-china

New regs known are:
OE-LZA
OE-LZB
OE-LZC
OE-LZD
OE-LZE
OE-LZF

The aircrafts from Juneyao are to come first but according to planespotters.net they are still active for them while all ex-Avianca are stored. Will they succeed with fast grounding and re-configuration? To the new Geven seats, as I understand?

According to this article the Avianca ones are coming first.
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... urboprops/
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:20 pm

Are the Juneyao Airbuses assembled in Tianjin? If so, are there any implications to register them in Europe?
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
T4thH
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:19 pm

I really like this site, they are already listed.
https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/austrian

24 OE-LZA A320-214 3234 19.09.2007 11,8 VIE OS active for HO  ex HO // to join fleet JAN20  
25 OE-LZB A320-214 3268 17.10.2007 11,8 VIE OS active for HO  ex HO // to join fleet JAN20 
26 OE-LZC A320-214 5278 28.09.2012 6,8 VIE OS stored @ VQQ  ex O6 // to join fleet AUG19 
27 OE-LZD A320-214 5299 17.10.2012 6,8 VIE OS stored @ VQQ  ex O6 // to join fleet AUG19 
28 OE-LZE A320-214SL 5754 30.09.2013 5,8 VIE OS stored @ VQQ  ex O6 // to join fleet SEP19 
29 OE-LZF A320-214SL 5841 20.11.2013 5,7 VIE OS stored @ VQQ  ex O6 // to join fleet OCT19 
30 OE-LZG A320    VIE OS   to replace DHC8 fleet 
31 OE-LZH A320    VIE OS   to replace DHC8 fleet 
32 OE-LZI A320    VIE OS   to replace DHC8 fleet 
33 OE-LZJ A320    VIE OS   to replace DHC8 fleet
 
a320fan
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:49 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Are the Juneyao Airbuses assembled in Tianjin? If so, are there any implications to register them in Europe?

They are both Toulouse builds.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:30 am

So the first two should be arriving on August 19 which is less than a month from now. Will the Q400s be gradually retired like they did with the Fokkers or will they wait for next year to start doing it?
 
SXDFC
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:07 am

Will these A320s replace older A320s?
 
716131
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:47 am

jghealey wrote:
It seems the aircraft are PR-ONK,ONL,ONS,ONT and B-6341,6340

Those 2 Juneyao are correct: B-6341, 6340 is going to the airline soon since they are the remaining 2007 A320's leased to this Chinese airline which will leave in September and October this year. I think those 4 Avianca Brasil A320's are the source as well.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
716131
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:48 am

SXDFC wrote:
Will these A320s replace older A320s?

No. Like it mention, they will replace first of 6 Q400 before the rest quits in 2021 or 2022.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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Slash787
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:51 am

Wouldn't the CS300 be a better option to replace their Q400 and new A321/A320neo to replace their older A320's
 
jghealey
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:56 am

Slash787 wrote:
Wouldn't the CS300 be a better option to replace their Q400 and new A321/A320neo to replace their older A320's

LH doesn't want to give them new aircraft since they're not as profitable as other airlines in the group. I think the Q400 routes are moving to E195 and the E195 routes are moving to A320 so it does make sense.
 
ewt340
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:46 pm

What I wondering now though. There is still capacity jump from Q400 to E195 or A320. So since the domestic routes are unprofitable, this seems a bit counter intuitive.

Wouldn't smaller turboprops would make more sense or are they really gonna cut of all of the domestic flights and replaced those with train services?
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:13 pm

ewt340 wrote:
What I wondering now though. There is still capacity jump from Q400 to E195 or A320. So since the domestic routes are unprofitable, this seems a bit counter intuitive.

Wouldn't smaller turboprops would make more sense or are they really gonna cut of all of the domestic flights and replaced those with train services?


They will probably quit domestic flying unless the Austrian government gives them subventions. If they do get them then it doesn't matter what aircraft operates the route.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:04 pm

Do the Austrian Q400s still fly the Swiss route to Lugano? If so, what will replace them?
 
stylo777
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:09 pm

There is a price war currently going on at VIE and unfortunately no other way of fighting this than with increased capacity. Healthy? Definitely not and I have a feeling that LEVEL is already struggeling. But OS is better off with replacing the smaller capacity jets with 320s.
 
stylo777
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:10 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Do the Austrian Q400s still fly the Swiss route to Lugano? If so, what will replace them?

No, Adria took over with Saab's
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:39 pm

What will happen to the Q400 pilots? Will they be fired?
 
T4thH
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:42 pm

Blerg wrote:
What will happen to the Q400 pilots? Will they be fired?


This is Europe, so pretty sure, get the chance to train and to receive an additional certificate on the E195.
 
B747forever
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:33 am

T4thH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What will happen to the Q400 pilots? Will they be fired?


This is Europe, so pretty sure, get the chance to train and to receive an additional certificate on the E195.



Nothing to do with it being in Europe. I imagine it would be the same with any other carrier, the pilota get new openings based on the seniority they hold.
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TripleDelta
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:03 am

Blerg wrote:
What will happen to the Q400 pilots? Will they be fired?


Why would they fire seasoned & experienced crews in the middle of a (slight) expansion?
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:07 am

TripleDelta wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What will happen to the Q400 pilots? Will they be fired?


Why would they fire seasoned & experienced crews in the middle of a (slight) expansion?


Because they are retiring the model they were flying on? How many of them are certified to operate both the Q400 and A320? Also how do you know all of their pilots on the Q400 are seasoned?
 
T4thH
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:59 am

B747forever wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What will happen to the Q400 pilots? Will they be fired?


This is Europe, so pretty sure, get the chance to train and to receive an additional certificate on the E195.



Nothing to do with it being in Europe. I imagine it would be the same with any other carrier, the pilota get new openings based on the seniority they hold.


Perhaps I shall say it on another way. this is Austrian airlines, a member of the LH group. So these pilots are employees of an Austrian company, there is a worker council, there are worhers rights (which are worth to be called so) e.g. and Austrian airlines will not be able to kick them just because their plane type will be taken out of duty. If they would be pilots of the Lufthansa itself, Lufthansa will pay all the new certifications needed; as they arte employees of Austran Airlines, I do not know.
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:29 am

Blerg wrote:
Because they are retiring the model they were flying on? How many of them are certified to operate both the Q400 and A320?


You retrain them. New Type Rating and off you go. The average European pilot (especially starting out in t-prop ops) will likely go through 2-3 Type Ratings in his/her life.

Blerg wrote:
so how do you know all of their pilots on the Q400 are seasoned?


They likely have a few younger low-time F/Os in the pool - but Senior F/Os and Captains will have 2000+ hours in line ops (and likely upward of twice that amount). Hardly crews you'd kick to the curb.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:45 am

TripleDelta wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Because they are retiring the model they were flying on? How many of them are certified to operate both the Q400 and A320?


You retrain them. New Type Rating and off you go. The average European pilot (especially starting out in t-prop ops) will likely go through 2-3 Type Ratings in his/her life.

Blerg wrote:
so how do you know all of their pilots on the Q400 are seasoned?


They likely have a few younger low-time F/Os in the pool - but Senior F/Os and Captains will have 2000+ hours in line ops (and likely upward of twice that amount). Hardly crews you'd kick to the curb.


That's what I was asking, that is if they will be retrained or if they will be fired and new A320 pilots hired.

How long does a new certification take?
 
fsclips
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:35 am

It is called "type-rating" and how long it takes depends on previous experience.
If any of these pilots have previous jet experience a whole chunk of the course can be omitted. If not, then they have to do the whole A320 type-rating course which lasts about 3 months followed by a few months of line training.

It is not a big deal really. Even new hires with A320 experience will have to undergo the Lufthansa A320 training to get used to the LH SOPs and all the software systems used for flight preparation.

No one can just jump onto a flight-deck of an A320 with a new company. For various reasons (unions, known flight experience, knowledge of SOPs and procedures, track record of performance on flight deck,...) it is much easier to train people from within the company than new guys.
 
bennett123
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:15 pm

Blerg

What would happen where you come from?.
 
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TripleDelta
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:38 pm

Blerg wrote:
How long does a new certification take?


Depends on simulator and instructor availability, plus potential company requirements. If you were really in a hurry, an experienced crew could go from Day 1 of Ground School to having a Type Rating in their license in about two-three months (maybe even less). But Austrian is likely not in a hurry, since the move has been in the plans for awhile now.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:19 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Blerg

What would happen where you come from?.


How on earth am I supposed to know when I don't work in the aviation industry, that's why I asked. However I hope that any airline that no longer needs pilots can freely fire them.
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:20 pm

TripleDelta wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How long does a new certification take?


Depends on simulator and instructor availability, plus potential company requirements. If you were really in a hurry, an experienced crew could go from Day 1 of Ground School to having a Type Rating in their license in about two-three months (maybe even less). But Austrian is likely not in a hurry, since the move has been in the plans for awhile now.


Great, thanks!
 
george77300
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:43 pm

Blerg wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Blerg

What would happen where you come from?.


How on earth am I supposed to know when I don't work in the aviation industry, that's why I asked. However I hope that any airline that no longer needs pilots can freely fire them.


Why on earth would you hope people can be freely fired?!?!

To answer your question, (unless an airline goes bankrupt), when an airline retires a fleet all the pilots will be retrained on other aircraft in their fleet. This is a gradual process as the fleet are withdrawn. This is standard practice all over the world. I’m sure some will leave but the minority usually.

Of course exceptions happen such as airlines massively shrinking, but this is definitely not the case in Austrian’s case and all pilots will continue to be employed.
 
bennett123
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:04 pm

Blerg

Couple of points;

1. The information shown on member profiles is pretty limited.

2. In the UK, fired means dismissed. I assume you mean redundant.

3. I imagine that in any country with labour rights that making a load of Q400 pilots redundant and then hiring a load of A320 pilots is probably illegal.

The thought did occur to me that you were in a ‘Right to Work’ state.
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:48 pm

The first of them. OE-LZD, has arrived in VIE. Does anybody know about its coniguration? Will it be equipped with new style Geven seats like LH A321neos?
Last flown aircrafts: A320 OE-LBO < A21N CS-TJO < A21N CS-TXC < E190 CS-TPQ < A319 F-GRXC < A321 F-GTAH < B738 SP-LWF < E175 SP-LII < A320 OE-LBL < A320 OE-LBU < A319 OE-LDE < A320 OE-LBZ < A320 D-AIPL < A319 D-AIBA
 
DUSZRH
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:32 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
The first of them. OE-LZD, has arrived in VIE. Does anybody know about its coniguration? Will it be equipped with new style Geven seats like LH A321neos?


I read somewhere 180 seats (spaceflex) and the new seats.
 
kimimm19
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:41 pm

jghealey wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
Wouldn't the CS300 be a better option to replace their Q400 and new A321/A320neo to replace their older A320's

LH doesn't want to give them new aircraft since they're not as profitable as other airlines in the group. I think the Q400 routes are moving to E195 and the E195 routes are moving to A320 so it does make sense.



More specifically:

OS is not as profitable as LX (which none of the airlines in LH Group are), and they're not LH which is the main priority for pride.
 
MCTSET
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:01 pm

Is this capacity increase going to compete on the same routes as the new wave of LCC in Vienna.
 
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A321Lufthansa
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:24 pm

DUSZRH wrote:
A321Lufthansa wrote:
The first of them. OE-LZD, has arrived in VIE. Does anybody know about its coniguration? Will it be equipped with new style Geven seats like LH A321neos?


I read somewhere 180 seats (spaceflex) and the new seats.

I'm really disappointed that OS has also intoduced SpaceFlex. I remember from Swiss' A320 that you feel yourself in a lavatory like in a vertical tomb...
Last flown aircrafts: A320 OE-LBO < A21N CS-TJO < A21N CS-TXC < E190 CS-TPQ < A319 F-GRXC < A321 F-GTAH < B738 SP-LWF < E175 SP-LII < A320 OE-LBL < A320 OE-LBU < A319 OE-LDE < A320 OE-LBZ < A320 D-AIPL < A319 D-AIBA
 
multimark
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:25 am

Anyone know where the Q400s are going?
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:35 am

Are they planning any network changes for the winter?
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:31 am

 
A380MSN004
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:35 am

MCTSET wrote:
Is this capacity increase going to compete on the same routes as the new wave of LCC in Vienna.


As VIE is a bloodbath at the moment. Wont it be a better option to keep the Q400s to compete instead stepping fully in the flight ?

The Q400 is less capacity, but it's cheaper on fuel, fees, tax etc.
 
Blerg
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:02 am

A380MSN004 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
Is this capacity increase going to compete on the same routes as the new wave of LCC in Vienna.


As VIE is a bloodbath at the moment. Wont it be a better option to keep the Q400s to compete instead stepping fully in the flight ?

The Q400 is less capacity, but it's cheaper on fuel, fees, tax etc.


Maybe they are going for fleet commonality as it's another way to reduce costs.

I just noticed Wizz Air is launching VIE-TIA. That's going to be a bloodbath as OS mostly relies on transfers and it was ripping off locals who were going to Vienna. Yet another market where their yields will be eroded.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Austrian to get 6 of the planned 10 A320s earlier than announced

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:41 am

A380MSN004 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
Is this capacity increase going to compete on the same routes as the new wave of LCC in Vienna.


As VIE is a bloodbath at the moment. Wont it be a better option to keep the Q400s to compete instead stepping fully in the flight ?

The Q400 is less capacity, but it's cheaper on fuel, fees, tax etc.


Per seat the Q400 is more expensive on any route over 500km.

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