Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
berari
Topic Author
Posts: 898
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:52 pm

I find the subject of flight path detours and restrictions due to geopolitical instability interesting. What such detours do you know of beyond what I have below:
- Flights to/from Israel, especially with El Al, not being able to fly over many Arab countries
- QR flights not able to fly over Saudi Arabian and UAE airspace
- More recently the Pakistani airspace being closed
- Until about a year ago, inability for flights to cross from Ethiopian into Eritrean airspace and vice versa which saw many Ethiopian Airlines flights circumventing Eritrean airspace
- Decades ago South African Airways flights were barred over most African airspace, creating some interesting paths
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 14900
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:54 pm

Flights from Taiwan to Europe used to go via BKK as they were not allowed over Chinese airspace.

Flights to/from Israel often have large detours.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5478
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:09 am

GA traffic still can’t overfly China to land at TPE. A friend just went from LOS to TPE with a stop in the Maldives to avoid China. Overflight would have made it a non-stop.

GF
 
Planes4you
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:08 am

Eva has to do LHR-BKK CDG-BKK AMS-BKK and VIE-BKK
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21801
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:10 am

berari wrote:
- More recently the Pakistani airspace being closed


I was on one of those, but with the fortunate side-effect of being able to enjoy seat 1A in a LH 748 for a few minutes more while we diverted around Pakistani airspace. :cloudnine:
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1678
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:13 am

Planes4you wrote:
Eva has to do LHR-BKK CDG-BKK AMS-BKK and VIE-BKK

CDG-BKK doesn't exist on BR and VIE also has direct TPE flights. More about number of pax (and number of premium pax) rather than capability.

Michael
 
danirich26
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:55 am

I fly for an airline based in the ME, whenever we fly to Beirut we fly along the northern border of Saudi before skirting the edge of Jordan/Israel at Aqaba/Eilat before turning north over Egyptian airspace and then vice versa on the return, we even have a company NOTAM saying be careful in the area since the aircraft has a tendency to try and overfly one of the points resulting in it turning early and entering Israeli airspace.
When the Pakistani airspace was closed, we had very very long detours around, to the point where our flights to Northern India, Nepal and Bangladesh were almost an hour longer each way and went all the way South to Bombay and then turning up North, we even had some routes that became ETOPS which weren't before, from memory the shortest ETOPS stage on one of those flights was less than 1 minute! Thankfully that situation is resolved now so no need for the long reroute or the extra hassle that comes with an ETOPS flight
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 4199
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:32 am

A few years ago many airlines avoided flying over east Ukraine, specially after MH17. Tensions between Russia and Ukraine are still there.
 
MikeUniformEcho
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:05 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:37 am

LATAM's GRU-TLV is an example. The flight goes straight to Europe and reach Israel through the Mediterranean Sea.
Image
 
tu204
Posts: 2157
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:59 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
A few years ago many airlines avoided flying over east Ukraine, specially after MH17. Tensions between Russia and Ukraine are still there.


Eastern Ukraine is still NOTAM closed to this day.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
AZa346
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:41 am

Think how much extra CO2 these avoidance routings make plane emit... how sad we cant overcome these problems, cause a good chunk of the issues mentioned do not actually pose a threat to airliners.
 
User avatar
sassiciai
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:26 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:01 am

We are all aware of the rising political temperature between Iran and some Western countries (USA and UK mainly), the tit-for-tat boarding of tankers, the USA strengthening its naval assets in the region. I am sure that there are a few worried airline CEOs in the region wondering about the effect on transit pax, and if the situation gets much worse, the likelihood of the region's airspace being closed

If I needed to go to SE Asia from Europe, my first choice used to be Etihad; today I would be reluctant to book such a flight as when the date came to actually fly, it might be that the ME3 and the other regional carriers are seriously affected by airspace closures. My immediate alternative options from Brussels include Thai that would reroute to avoid the area, Cathay Pacific that flies over Russia to HKG completely avoiding the Middle East, Aeroflot, Finnair.
 
LH658
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:09 am

Syria and North Korea.
 
LatinAirliner
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:01 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:31 am

Venezuela is another one to add to the list, is not well defined, because some airlines are still over-flying Venezuela. But:

- Avianca decided not to fly and not to overfly Venezuela, because of safety issues in the country. (we all know what is happening in Venezuela)
- FAA stated that airlines from the United States or airplanes with N registration are not allowed to fly to Venezuela and to overfly Venezuela.
LatinAirliner - Nickpo
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:39 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
A few years ago many airlines avoided flying over east Ukraine, specially after MH17. Tensions between Russia and Ukraine are still there.

Majority of carriers avoid all of Ukrainian airspace including in the west.
 
User avatar
WildcatYXU
Posts: 3174
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 2:05 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:30 am

b747400erf wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
A few years ago many airlines avoided flying over east Ukraine, specially after MH17. Tensions between Russia and Ukraine are still there.

Majority of carriers avoid all of Ukrainian airspace including in the west.


That includes Russian airlines. I've noticed many flights From Russia to resort cities in Bulgaria and Turkey flying over south-eastern Slovakia that shouldn't even come close to the area. Flying from SVO to AYT over Slovakia is quite a detour.
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
Wednesdayite
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:28 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:59 am

After South Korea fired warning shots today at Russian (military) aircraft, will that lead to airspace closures for each other’s civil flights?
A318/19/20/21/30/40. B717/27/37/47/57/67/77/87. CRJ2/7. ERJ145/175/190. FKR50. IL62. MD11/82/83/88. TU154.
AA AC AF AI AR AS AT AV AZ BA BW BY CO DA DL F9 FR JJ KL LH MA NW NZ OS RG SU TK U2 UA US VS WN
 
Theseus
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:14 pm

I flew many times to and from Seoul and always observed flight paths would avoid North Korea, even though I have recently read here that the North Korean airspace is not closed to other aircraft. I feel bad when I think about all the extra flight time, fuel burn and CO2 emission just on that detour.

I also a did number of flights between Europe and Dubai/Doha; flights would always avoid Iraki airspace.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:40 pm

LatinAirliner wrote:
FAA stated that airlines from the United States or airplanes with N registration are not allowed to fly to Venezuela and to overfly Venezuela.

The restrictions do not apply to US registered aircraft operated by or for a foreign carrier, although that is a scenario that would typically apply to cargo flights.

Also overflights are banned below 26,000 ft only. There are no restrictions above.
 
User avatar
777222LR
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:19 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:08 pm

Flew QR DFW-DOH-CPT recently. The most notable was the flight to CPT. We went northeast around UAE/OMAN through the Strait of Hormuz then back west and south toward Africa. Not sure how much time this added, but direct would have been overlying Saudi Arabia and Yemen. I got to enjoy QR's business product a little longer. Not mad about it.

There's always been avoidance of certain areas of Syria when I've flown to the Middle East from the US. I think it varies from any point in time where that is, however. And it depends on the airline. Turkish, for example, was overflying Syria, while Lufthansa was not a few years ago. (Same trip)
 
AirBoat
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:58 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:16 pm

any flight from jhb to Frankfurt flies around Libya on the west side
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2028
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:49 pm

I think Air India still have a fuel stop at ARN for one of their US bound flights from India due to avoiding Pakistanian airspace.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
FCOTSTW
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:16 pm

One of the most famous ones was Northwest Airlines (NW), which in 1992 reduced the DTW NRT flight from 13:30 hours to 12 hours or so when the Russian government granted the possibility to overflow Siberia.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:14 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
I think Air India still have a fuel stop at ARN for one of their US bound flights from India due to avoiding Pakistanian airspace.

Pakistan airspace opened back up last week
 
744lover
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2000 5:29 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:30 pm

Another interesting route is BEY to AMM. In a straight line, 128nm. If the flight was direct it would take what? 20 minutes?

But instead, flights leave into the sea, then towards the south of Israel and later north into Jordan. Average flight time? 1:23 minutes.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/rj404



BR,
744lover
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:38 pm

744lover wrote:
Another interesting route is BEY to AMM. In a straight line, 128nm. If the flight was direct it would take what? 20 minutes?

But instead, flights leave into the sea, then towards the south of Israel and later north into Jordan. Average flight time? 1:23 minutes.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/rj404



BR,
744lover

Jordan is allied with the west and so will avoid Syrian airspace.
 
User avatar
eastafspot
Posts: 1661
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Flight detours due to geopolitical instability

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:07 pm

berari wrote:
I find the subject of flight path detours and restrictions due to geopolitical instability interesting. What such detours do you know of beyond what I have below:
- Flights to/from Israel, especially with El Al, not being able to fly over many Arab countries
- QR flights not able to fly over Saudi Arabian and UAE airspace
- More recently the Pakistani airspace being closed
- Until about a year ago, inability for flights to cross from Ethiopian into Eritrean airspace and vice versa which saw many Ethiopian Airlines flights circumventing Eritrean airspace
- Decades ago South African Airways flights were barred over most African airspace, creating some interesting paths


Probably useless for some of you, but interesting for others:

https://safeairspace.net
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos