Friarboy
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Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:25 pm

Interesting piece from Rothstein's daughter about his AAirpass and ensuing lawsuit.

https://narratively.com/the-man-with-th ... ket-newtab
 
Oilman
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:47 pm

That’s a nice update and some closure.

Thanks!
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:56 pm

res companion passes: money is fungible and determining who pays what may be difficult. As in: I pay for travel, you pay for hotels and food. Is that selling a ticket?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Lrockeagle
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:01 pm

Friarboy wrote:
Interesting piece from Rothstein's daughter about his AAirpass and ensuing lawsuit.

https://narratively.com/the-man-with-th ... ket-newtab

I was sympathetic to him until I saw the stats for how much he cancelled/no-showed/booked extra seats.
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
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fbgdavidson
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:13 pm

Friarboy wrote:
Interesting piece from Rothstein's daughter about his AAirpass and ensuing lawsuit.

https://narratively.com/the-man-with-th ... ket-newtab


Very interesting. Thanks for posting!
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
Prost
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:50 pm

That was a well written article. I thought I’d read a few paragraphs, get the gist, and then come back here, but she ropes you in.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:21 pm

The missed revenue isn’t from his personal travel, it’s from him booking up the seat next to him because he suffers social anxiety instead of AA being able to sell it.

I don’t think AA is completely blameless, the rules and conditions should have been stated more clearly. Although I do think something should have clicked in his brain and he should have realized what he was doing probably wasn’t kosher.

AA has one of the best revenue protection departments in the industry. They busted a high value frequent flyer not to long ago that was doing something similar. He was purchasing refundable first class tickets on flights he was already booked on in a lower class of service. He’d dump the first class tickets at the last minute so his odds of getting upgraded increased. AA caught on to it pretty quickly and revoked his frequent flyer account
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:39 pm

Please remember that $ 250K in 1981 are equivalent to $ 736,000 of today and that the companion pass of $ 150,000 is equivalent to $ 441,000. 66 of these passes brought to AA $ 58,476,000 in today' s dollars. Non-revenue passengers flying the same routes in the very same classes of service produce much less revenue that $ 50 million dollars. Also, the $ 600,000 price of 1990 is now equivalent to $ 1,206,000 and the $ 1,010,000 of 1993 is now equivalent to $ 1,532,000. In addition to that, please remember that often airlines work in "economies of scale", meaning that the adding of one or two extra passengers to a flight can be done at a very reduced or at no cost.

Clearly, if you total the retail ticket prices of all flights AA is the loser (Mr. Rothstein has flown over 30-million miles, which is approximately 4,360 times from JFK to LHR and back), however if you look at the scenario through the principle of economies of scale I might be confident that AA' s losses could be very reduced. Indeed, the real loss appears not coming from the sale of the pass itself but from a faulty product offering, which allowed "companions" to fly, which in turn led to poor unmonitored double or triple fake reservations made to grant free seats, to tickets that were sold to third parties, and to free upgrades given to randomly-met people at the airports.

On the other hand, if you take away the "sensationalism" out of the newspaper piece, the LA Times would not sell...

Source: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
Last edited by FCOTSTW on Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Elementalism
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:35 pm

The hardest part for me is the fact AA employees helped him perform this supposed fraud. The company needs to take on some of the blame here. It is one thing if he hatches this plan. It is another when the airline does it then cries foul.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:48 pm

I can't believe AA won in court. They were clearly just trying to get rid of these pass holders because it cost them a lot of revenue.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:58 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I can't believe AA won in court. They were clearly just trying to get rid of these pass holders because it cost them a lot of revenue.


Rothstein’s case is a bit more in the grey area, but for those that were selling tickets from their AAirpass……..zero sympathy.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:15 pm

Friarboy wrote:
Interesting piece from Rothstein's daughter about his AAirpass and ensuing lawsuit.

https://narratively.com/the-man-with-th ... ket-newtab


From the article:
It took away my mobility. It took away my hobby. I thought that I could go to Sweden for the weekend in July and pick up flowers when I was 70.”

“And now?” I ask.

“I can’t do that, can I?”


You don't need to book 1,000 flights a year to be mobile. That's just insane. I think it's perfectly fine that American Airlines terminated his pass. It was never enough for this man and his family. They travelled the world numerous times, but all they can say is "we were treated unfair." Real first world problems. Good that the airline said no to this form of abuse.

If he really would like to visit Sweden, I guess his daughter could pay for it using her frequent flyer miles. Didn't he already visit the country ten times during his never ending travels? I must admit it gave me some satisfaction to read that the author still hasn't visited Oregon and Alaska. While I have 'only' been to sixteen U.S. states, these two are among them.

Anyone here that bought the airliners.net lifetime membership for 999 USD? :roll:
 
MartijnNL
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:22 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
I can't believe AA won in court. They were clearly just trying to get rid of these pass holders because it cost them a lot of revenue.

I fully understand the airline won the case. This one pass holder was booking thousands of flights for himself and a companion without showing up. That's just ridiculous behaviour. And of course annoying for the airline.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:59 pm

AA should have specified in the contract what he could and couldn't do. He never booked travel for others using his pass. He followed the letter of the contract. The companion pass should have allowed him to book an empty seat next to him. And all of his travel was booked by AA phone agents. If Robert Crandall was ok with it then the rest should have shut up about it.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:24 am

Just a reminder to users that forum rules request that replies only be made to topics active within the past six months. Since the original thread was more than seven years old, I have split the topic into a new updated version. Posts to old threads are at risk of deletion, so users should please be mindful of that.

Here is a link to the original discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=538117

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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fbgdavidson
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:42 am

FCOTSTW wrote:
Mr. Rothstein has flown over 30-million miles, which is approximately 4,360 times from JFK to LHR and back


He earned 30 million miles, which is quite a different kettle of fish. With Platinum and Executive Platinum bonuses (as EXP wasn't a thing when he first got the AAirpass) his actual flown miles could be quite a fraction of that.

The world's most frequent flyer (who is an active participant on Flyertalk) just recently crossed 20MM on United.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
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vhtje
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:06 am

That article is deeply flawed; it doesn’t adequately present AA’s side of the story. In writing it, she’s trying to invoke our sympathies for her father, and anger at American Airlines, but it doesn’t work. Yes, I ended it feeling sorry for Mr Rothstein, but not for his loss of his AAirpass and for his treatment by American Airlines, which was the author’s intention, but for his deeply unhappy life. Who calls an airline reservation agent just to talk? Does he not have any other close friends? What about his wife?

A more interesting story would be a comparison piece on how different holders used their AAirpasses, and a look at the psychological impact that freedom, luxury and entitlement for so many years had on the different holders.

Or a more balanced look at the court cases and subsequent appeals, but she’s not in a position to write that.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:44 am

vhtje wrote:
That article is deeply flawed; it doesn’t adequately present AA’s side of the story. In writing it, she’s trying to invoke our sympathies for her father, and anger at American Airlines, but it doesn’t work. Yes, I ended it feeling sorry for Mr Rothstein, but not for his loss of his AAirpass and for his treatment by American Airlines, which was the author’s intention, but for his deeply unhappy life. Who calls an airline reservation agent just to talk? Does he not have any other close friends? What about his wife?

A more interesting story would be a comparison piece on how different holders used their AAirpasses, and a look at the psychological impact that freedom, luxury and entitlement for so many years had on the different holders.

Or a more balanced look at the court cases and subsequent appeals, but she’s not in a position to write that.



As a travel agent u have no clue how frequent that behavior is from our clients. Especially during the holidays. Some people just want a friendly person to talk to, and as an agent sometimes u welcome it as a change of pace to the daily grind of incoming calls. U just have no clue on where the next calls conversations will take u while assisting clients.

While I see both sides of the coin here, due to what in my mind appears vague language in the contract i have no clue how the courts sided with AA in the first place. He called AA res every time he made a booking and time after time they did so without a fuss. The airline was aware of the behavior they allowed for years to go on and then without even a friendly warning to cut it off like that was not very professional. I have no clue how a judge can not ask AA the question of you knew about this for 2 plus years while u were building ur case and did or say anything sooner.
 
vfw614
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:56 am

AA took a gamble selling those lifetime passes and they badly miscalculated. There may be legal remedies to get out of such a contract, but pulling the fraud card appears to be a little over the top, given that he was playing by rules as they were written down (albeit not intended) and made all bookings through AA personnel.

Apparently he is still travelling a lot - so I am wondering with what airline?

Plus what did happen to his accumulated miles - I assume he still had plenty despite giving them away generously as he did not really need them as long as he had the pass.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:26 am

I am surprised these passes were not terminated with the bankruptcies AA went through.
The world is very different today than almost 40 years ago. Then airlines flew 747's and DC-10 Transcon, had plenty of seats to accommodate pass passengers and courts were more consumer friendly. The contracts for those passes were poorly written and were able to be abused by some like the subject of this post. I also suspect AA thought the use of the passes would disappear by the 1990's.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:40 pm

Bankruptcies were the time those super passes should have been modified. Most of the users were using them as expected. Another AA miss.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
moa999
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:49 pm

Felt bad for him personally but not for the cancellation.

Also was a long bow that he didn't book the tickets himself. He made the calls, and the AA agents are trained to treat their Exec Plats well and meet their metrics. They may not of even known he was not flying.

That said I don't think that AAs revenue protection was that good, should have been stopped long before with a discussion about what was reasonable usage.

I wonder whether any other passes (effectively contracts) were dissolved by the courts under Ch.11. Aftertall in many ways that was the end of life for the former American.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:03 pm

moa999 wrote:
Felt bad for him personally but not for the cancellation.

Also was a long bow that he didn't book the tickets himself. He made the calls, and the AA agents are trained to treat their Exec Plats well and meet their metrics. They may not of even known he was not flying.

That said I don't think that AAs revenue protection was that good, should have been stopped long before with a discussion about what was reasonable usage.

I wonder whether any other passes (effectively contracts) were dissolved by the courts under Ch.11. Aftertall in many ways that was the end of life for the former American.

He obviously has psychological issues that were compounded by his sons death.

That is not AAs fault or responsibility. They are not obligated to take special measures for mentally unstable people who suffered a loss. Think about how many people travel due to funerals, sick relatives, etc. Should the airline give them free tickets and clear the row for them and give them 1 hour of therapy by phone? Of course not.

The man needed professional help. He did not seek it. Its sad but not AAs fault.

Reminds me of “Up In The Air” and how pitiful Clooneys character comes off. He also knew the exec plat desk agents as friends, the names of everyone at every airport, etc.

As for the meat of the case. Upgrading strangers at AAs expense at the last minute was clearly not within the intent of the companion ticket. Booking dummy reservations including companions because you are bored was clearly not the intent either. And even if you are trying to convince a friend to take a last minute trip, why do you need to book it first? Convince the friend/family member, THEN book it. That was clearly abuse by him “because he could.”

With an 85% cancel rate, he was obviously drunk dialing AA exec plat line, chatting up the women he felt he had a relationship with, booking a fake flight so they wouldn’t avoid him in the future, and then sobering up and canceling the next day (his own daughter said he was drinking a lot at the time). He was wasting everyone’s time. And the airlines money.

He deserved to lose his pass. AA did not sign up to be the enabler of his hobby. And they finally and enough.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:23 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I am surprised these passes were not terminated with the bankruptcies AA went through.
The world is very different today than almost 40 years ago. Then airlines flew 747's and DC-10 Transcon, had plenty of seats to accommodate pass passengers and courts were more consumer friendly. The contracts for those passes were poorly written and were able to be abused by some like the subject of this post. I also suspect AA thought the use of the passes would disappear by the 1990's.

The general sentiment of this site is very interesting. Whenever a passenger (generally with zero legal expertise) buys a tickets and receives a raw deal, the refrain always is that they entered a contract and should go read the CoC(which is drafted entirely by the airline). When an airline (with an entire executive management team and legal department) ends up in a contract that does not benefit them (which they themselves drafted), the refrain is they should find any way to get out of it. Why shouldn’t the airline honor its contracts (whether to their benefit or not) the way pax are expected to have to suffer under the contract made with the airline?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:00 pm

ikramerica wrote:
moa999 wrote:
Felt bad for him personally but not for the cancellation.

Also was a long bow that he didn't book the tickets himself. He made the calls, and the AA agents are trained to treat their Exec Plats well and meet their metrics. They may not of even known he was not flying.

That said I don't think that AAs revenue protection was that good, should have been stopped long before with a discussion about what was reasonable usage.

I wonder whether any other passes (effectively contracts) were dissolved by the courts under Ch.11. Aftertall in many ways that was the end of life for the former American.

He obviously has psychological issues that were compounded by his sons death.

That is not AAs fault or responsibility. They are not obligated to take special measures for mentally unstable people who suffered a loss. Think about how many people travel due to funerals, sick relatives, etc. Should the airline give them free tickets and clear the row for them and give them 1 hour of therapy by phone? Of course not.

The man needed professional help. He did not seek it. Its sad but not AAs fault.

Reminds me of “Up In The Air” and how pitiful Clooneys character comes off. He also knew the exec plat desk agents as friends, the names of everyone at every airport, etc.

As for the meat of the case. Upgrading strangers at AAs expense at the last minute was clearly not within the intent of the companion ticket. Booking dummy reservations including companions because you are bored was clearly not the intent either. And even if you are trying to convince a friend to take a last minute trip, why do you need to book it first? Convince the friend/family member, THEN book it. That was clearly abuse by him “because he could.”

With an 85% cancel rate, he was obviously drunk dialing AA exec plat line, chatting up the women he felt he had a relationship with, booking a fake flight so they wouldn’t avoid him in the future, and then sobering up and canceling the next day (his own daughter said he was drinking a lot at the time). He was wasting everyone’s time. And the airlines money.

He deserved to lose his pass. AA did not sign up to be the enabler of his hobby. And they finally and enough.


Then that should have been spelled out in the contract. It wasn't. AA acted in bad faith by revoking the pass and steing his money. If I buy an extra seat next to me then I expect it to remain open. This man bought a companion pass which entitled him to do the same thing.
 
westgate
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:28 pm

I think the real moral of this story is, no matter how wildly successful you are in terms of business, career or wealth, or what amazing perks you can achieve from that success, such as a lifetime AA pass that allows you to fly yourself and anyone else anywhere at anytime, you can still lead an extremely unhappy and miserable existence, which can ultimately even lead to your perks being taken away.

At the end of the day we're all human, and we can all have a loved one unexpectedly taken away from us at any time. There's no amount of money or success that can ever bring them back. I'm absolutely sure that this man would, in an instant, trade the life of his son for all the wonderful travel opportunities he, his family and acquaintances were able to experience, most of which were only possible due to his lifetime AA pass.
 
AirCalSNA
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:04 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
moa999 wrote:
Felt bad for him personally but not for the cancellation.

Also was a long bow that he didn't book the tickets himself. He made the calls, and the AA agents are trained to treat their Exec Plats well and meet their metrics. They may not of even known he was not flying.

That said I don't think that AAs revenue protection was that good, should have been stopped long before with a discussion about what was reasonable usage.

I wonder whether any other passes (effectively contracts) were dissolved by the courts under Ch.11. Aftertall in many ways that was the end of life for the former American.

He obviously has psychological issues that were compounded by his sons death.

That is not AAs fault or responsibility. They are not obligated to take special measures for mentally unstable people who suffered a loss. Think about how many people travel due to funerals, sick relatives, etc. Should the airline give them free tickets and clear the row for them and give them 1 hour of therapy by phone? Of course not.

The man needed professional help. He did not seek it. Its sad but not AAs fault.

Reminds me of “Up In The Air” and how pitiful Clooneys character comes off. He also knew the exec plat desk agents as friends, the names of everyone at every airport, etc.

As for the meat of the case. Upgrading strangers at AAs expense at the last minute was clearly not within the intent of the companion ticket. Booking dummy reservations including companions because you are bored was clearly not the intent either. And even if you are trying to convince a friend to take a last minute trip, why do you need to book it first? Convince the friend/family member, THEN book it. That was clearly abuse by him “because he could.”

With an 85% cancel rate, he was obviously drunk dialing AA exec plat line, chatting up the women he felt he had a relationship with, booking a fake flight so they wouldn’t avoid him in the future, and then sobering up and canceling the next day (his own daughter said he was drinking a lot at the time). He was wasting everyone’s time. And the airlines money.

He deserved to lose his pass. AA did not sign up to be the enabler of his hobby. And they finally and enough.


Then that should have been spelled out in the contract. It wasn't. AA acted in bad faith by revoking the pass and steing his money. If I buy an extra seat next to me then I expect it to remain open. This man bought a companion pass which entitled him to do the same thing.


Speaking of "bad faith" ...

Most courts recognize an implied promise of "good faith and fair dealing" in every contact that supplements the actual "spelled out" terms. Under the implied promise each party agrees not to take any action that would frustrate the other's reasonable expectations as to the benefits and obligations of the contract. If the implied agreement was an issue in this case, I'm not sure that AA was the one guilty of "bad faith."
 
ikramerica
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:36 am

AirCalSNA wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
He obviously has psychological issues that were compounded by his sons death.

That is not AAs fault or responsibility. They are not obligated to take special measures for mentally unstable people who suffered a loss. Think about how many people travel due to funerals, sick relatives, etc. Should the airline give them free tickets and clear the row for them and give them 1 hour of therapy by phone? Of course not.

The man needed professional help. He did not seek it. Its sad but not AAs fault.

Reminds me of “Up In The Air” and how pitiful Clooneys character comes off. He also knew the exec plat desk agents as friends, the names of everyone at every airport, etc.

As for the meat of the case. Upgrading strangers at AAs expense at the last minute was clearly not within the intent of the companion ticket. Booking dummy reservations including companions because you are bored was clearly not the intent either. And even if you are trying to convince a friend to take a last minute trip, why do you need to book it first? Convince the friend/family member, THEN book it. That was clearly abuse by him “because he could.”

With an 85% cancel rate, he was obviously drunk dialing AA exec plat line, chatting up the women he felt he had a relationship with, booking a fake flight so they wouldn’t avoid him in the future, and then sobering up and canceling the next day (his own daughter said he was drinking a lot at the time). He was wasting everyone’s time. And the airlines money.

He deserved to lose his pass. AA did not sign up to be the enabler of his hobby. And they finally and enough.


Then that should have been spelled out in the contract. It wasn't. AA acted in bad faith by revoking the pass and steing his money. If I buy an extra seat next to me then I expect it to remain open. This man bought a companion pass which entitled him to do the same thing.


Speaking of "bad faith" ...

Most courts recognize an implied promise of "good faith and fair dealing" in every contact that supplements the actual "spelled out" terms. Under the implied promise each party agrees not to take any action that would frustrate the other's reasonable expectations as to the benefits and obligations of the contract. If the implied agreement was an issue in this case, I'm not sure that AA was the one guilty of "bad faith."

Exactly. The pass allows you to TRAVEL in an unlimited manner and take a companion. Booking 5 out of 6 dummy reservations is not TRAVELING. That alone was a violation of the intent.

Then there is the definition of companion. Booking a seat for a dog or a box of files or a bag of diamonds or a cello is using the seat. Booking it to remain empty is not. Now it is clearly AAs fault there for not enforcing that.

But reading between the lines, he may have been booking the true stranger “companions” he flew to other places on the next flight, which was a provision only intended for his wife for safety reasons.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:29 pm

fbgdavidson wrote:
FCOTSTW wrote:
Mr. Rothstein has flown over 30-million miles, which is approximately 4,360 times from JFK to LHR and back


He earned 30 million miles, which is quite a different kettle of fish. With Platinum and Executive Platinum bonuses (as EXP wasn't a thing when he first got the AAirpass) his actual flown miles could be quite a fraction of that.

The world's most frequent flyer (who is an active participant on Flyertalk) just recently crossed 20MM on United.


Correct. That' s why the product was flawed. It should have not allowed "open names" and should have never allowed frequent flyer mileage accumulation.
 
Worldair1
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:57 pm

Are any of these passes still out there and active or did they cancel all of them? Wonder if anyone else who bought them are actually "playing by the rules" and AA still honors.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:01 pm

ikramerica wrote:
Exactly. The pass allows you to TRAVEL in an unlimited manner and take a companion. Booking 5 out of 6 dummy reservations is not TRAVELING. That alone was a violation of the intent.

Then there is the definition of companion. Booking a seat for a dog or a box of files or a bag of diamonds or a cello is using the seat. Booking it to remain empty is not. Now it is clearly AAs fault there for not enforcing that.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here ....

How about if he weren't an AAirpass holder, but just a regular wealthy frequent flyer? Would it still be a "violation". Namely, because of plans unreliability, he had to book many reservations on an unrestricted fare, knowing he was only using one and cancel the rest. As we know, this practice is quite common with high end frequent flyers. Would AA track down and penalize such a Customer?

How about the same guy, wealthy frequent flyer but likes more space. Perhaps Obese. And he books two seats, pays for two seats, but only uses one to keep the adjacent seat empty. Is that wrong and worthy of AA penalizing him?

That is how I see this issue. Purchasing an AAirpass, he is purchasing a ticket. Purchasing a Companion AAirpass, he is purchasing another ticket. Is how he uses those two seats any different than just purchasing them directly ... and would AA still be upset?

While the whole AAirpass project seems a swing and a whiff to me, that is not the customer's fault. Without set parameters laid out in the contract, AA themselves have left it wide open. It looks to me like AA acknowledges the folly of the AAirpass and are looking for any excuse to back out of a previous contract.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
MKIAZ
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Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:54 pm

ikramerica wrote:
Then there is the definition of companion. Booking a seat for a dog or a box of files or a bag of diamonds or a cello is using the seat. Booking it to remain empty is not. Now it is clearly AAs fault there for not enforcing that.



I believe based on what I have read about these things was that the *real* purpose for booking a seat for a dog or a cello was because as one of the strange perks of the aairpass, he would earn the miles from the companion seat as well. Of course if you book a seat for your dog you can't earn miles for it. But if you book a seat for your dog, forget to bring your dog, and befriend someone in the lounge who wants a free upgrade to first class in the now available companion seat... then you would.
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:55 pm

Worldair1 wrote:
Are any of these passes still out there and active or did they cancel all of them? Wonder if anyone else who bought them are actually "playing by the rules" and AA still honors.


I believe there are still some active ones out there
 
Skyguy
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:55 am

Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:04 pm

This is probably an egregious case of use of AAirpass, the idea of traveling constantly seems more of an obsession rather than necessity or leisure travel. There are several people here who travel a lot and it does take a toll and get fatiguing and I for one welcome the break from traveling in and out of airports and eating plane food. I guess we're not all the same though as there are some for whom sitting on a plane and weaving in and out of airports and visiting places is everything to them. Nevertheless, reading the facts that AA presented in court, where he made 3,009 bookings but cancelled 84% at the last minute is, in opinion, tantamount to abusive behavior. AA probably tolerated it as far as they could until it didn't make sense for them to do so any longer and they probably thought the costs of a defending a lawsuit and related negative publicity was probably worth teh 2 F seats that were freed up. Also, it sent a shot over the bow to existing AAirpass holders to pull their socks up and behave in case they too were pushing the gray area of permissible activity. I think AA just threw Rothstein under the bus to make an example of him.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
Skyguy
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:55 am

Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:06 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
Worldair1 wrote:
Are any of these passes still out there and active or did they cancel all of them? Wonder if anyone else who bought them are actually "playing by the rules" and AA still honors.


I believe there are still some active ones out there


Michael Dell still has one. But people who bought AAirpasses back in the day, if they are still wealthy, probably can afford to fly private too, so who knows, maybe they're not such heavy users in general of the AAirpass.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Update: The AAirpass & How It Cost AA Dearly

Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:23 pm

Skyguy wrote:
MKIAZ wrote:
Worldair1 wrote:
Are any of these passes still out there and active or did they cancel all of them? Wonder if anyone else who bought them are actually "playing by the rules" and AA still honors.


I believe there are still some active ones out there


Michael Dell still has one. But people who bought AAirpasses back in the day, if they are still wealthy, probably can afford to fly private too, so who knows, maybe they're not such heavy users in general of the AAirpass.


I thought I read somewhere that Mark Cuban has one as well?

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