wmAirplane
Topic Author
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AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:28 am

 
drdisque
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:17 am

They should be able to run PHX-CVG year-round.

PHX-FLL was a big route for US back in the day, but the yields were probably trash and with PHX-MIA it's somewhat duplicative for AA.

PHX-COS is another route that should work year-round, at least on Eagle.
 
dbo861
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:39 am

wmAirplane wrote:


PHX-FAR 4 days after F9 announced the same route.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:00 am

Wow!! More growth at PHX - a hub that I honestly never expected to survive, let alone thrive after the merger. Anybody know the equipment on these routes?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Ebmek
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:24 am

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:11 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Wow!! More growth at PHX - a hub that I honestly never expected to survive, let alone thrive after the merger. Anybody know the equipment on these routes?


From what I gathered from the Phoenix thread, FAR and COS are on an A319 for sure. CVG was a maybe for an A319, and I believe FLL would be an A321.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:12 pm

kind of pathetic, though. When America West, AA's predecessor started, COS was one of the original cities, with multiple flights per day. Now they cant even support one daily year round flight? Has the city of Colorado Springs changed that much? Have demand patterns changed so much?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:43 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
kind of pathetic, though. When America West, AA's predecessor started, COS was one of the original cities, with multiple flights per day. Now they cant even support one daily year round flight? Has the city of Colorado Springs changed that much? Have demand patterns changed so much?


Who's arguing that HP was a successful carrier in the day and that every route made money? Look at the traffic COS gets today: mainline to some of the country's biggest hubs like DFW, DEN, ATL (which PHX is not) and then primarily a bunch of CR2s. COS suffers the kiss of death for tertiary airports -- proximity to a big hub with lots of destinations, frequencies, and carriers providing price competition.
 
burnsie28
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:53 pm

drdisque wrote:
They should be able to run PHX-CVG year-round.

PHX-COS is another route that should work year-round, at least on Eagle.



HP used to fly it multiple times a day along with LAS.

The City of Colorado Springs continues to grow and is quite large along with parts of Denver essentially moving south. I think part of the problem is that COS is on the south side of town, most of the business travelers from the COS area are in the central to north areas, so Denver isn't that much further.
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 398
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:22 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
kind of pathetic, though. When America West, AA's predecessor started, COS was one of the original cities, with multiple flights per day. Now they cant even support one daily year round flight? Has the city of Colorado Springs changed that much? Have demand patterns changed so much?


Who's arguing that HP was a successful carrier in the day and that every route made money? Look at the traffic COS gets today: mainline to some of the country's biggest hubs like DFW, DEN, ATL (which PHX is not) and then primarily a bunch of CR2s. COS suffers the kiss of death for tertiary airports -- proximity to a big hub with lots of destinations, frequencies, and carriers providing price competition.


These are on point. People forget as well that when DEN was built it was considered out in the middle of nowhere similar to how DFW originally was. That was the reason HP founder Ed Beauvais founded Western Pacific Airlines at COS...he thought DEN's location would allow him to draw sufficient traffic. As F9 grew at DEN providing low cost competition, UA grew it's large network, and most importantly, the area immidiately surrounding DEN became populated and therefore "normal" for people to commute to. Suddenly, if you lived in COS, going to DEN wasn't too much trouble.
 
N292UX
Posts: 429
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:22 pm

Those are some solid adds. I could honestly see all of them eventually going year-round at some point.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2711
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:47 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
These are on point. People forget as well that when DEN was built it was considered out in the middle of nowhere similar to how DFW originally was. That was the reason HP founder Ed Beauvais founded Western Pacific Airlines at COS...he thought DEN's location would allow him to draw sufficient traffic. As F9 grew at DEN providing low cost competition, UA grew it's large network, and most importantly, the area immidiately surrounding DEN became populated and therefore "normal" for people to commute to. Suddenly, if you lived in COS, going to DEN wasn't too much trouble.


Don't forget that once the E-470 toll road was built, it got much easier to drive to the new DEN. North side of COS to DEN took me less than an hour. It's a similar situation to when DTW opened the south access to the airport and made it a much easier drive from TOL.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753/762/763/764/772/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440/700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
jetmatt777
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:21 pm

Surprised AA hasn’t been in the PHX-COS already. Should be year round; it’s growing very fast down here.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
FSDan
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:30 pm

Good adds. At this point I'd say BNA is the only real glaring hole left in AA's domestic network from PHX.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
jplatts
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:44 pm

FSDan wrote:
Good adds. At this point I'd say BNA is the only real glaring hole left in AA's domestic network from PHX.


While I agree that the lack of AA nonstop service to BNA from PHX is one of the biggest holes, there are a few other nonstop routes such as PHX-BUF, PHX-LIT, PHX-SDF, and PHX-TUL that could still be added by AA out of PHX.

I am unsure if AA would bring back PHX-CLE nonstop service as AA dropped PHX-CLE nonstop service back in April 2016 whereas WN and F9 have been able to make PHX-CLE nonstop service work.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:49 pm

jplatts wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Good adds. At this point I'd say BNA is the only real glaring hole left in AA's domestic network from PHX.


While I agree that the lack of AA nonstop service to BNA from PHX is one of the biggest holes, there are a few other nonstop routes such as PHX-BUF, PHX-LIT, PHX-SDF, and PHX-TUL that could still be added by AA out of PHX.

I am unsure if AA would bring back PHX-CLE nonstop service as AA dropped PHX-CLE nonstop service back in April 2016 whereas WN and F9 have been able to make PHX-CLE nonstop service work.


That's why I used the phrase "glaring hole". BNA is not the last destination AA could reasonably add from PHX, but it's the most obvious one in my opinion.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
flyfresno
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:55 pm

Wow, huge growth for FAR.
 
alasizon
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:04 pm

FSDan wrote:
Good adds. At this point I'd say BNA is the only real glaring hole left in AA's domestic network from PHX.


For me TUL, LIT & BNA are equal when it comes to obvious holes. BNA is a tough one to justify as you can't use the same aircraft for an out-and-back and have the flight depart and arrive in the proper directional bank. It also directly overflies DFW and most of the cities that would provide the connection demand to BNA are also served from DFW. MEM is about as far East as you can go from PHX before the timings require either a sub-optimal time or you require a cross-fleeting with another hub.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
hpff
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:11 pm

FAR-PHX will be interesting to see if AA or one of the LLCs blinks first.
 
Vctony
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:39 pm

FSDan wrote:
Good adds. At this point I'd say BNA is the only real glaring hole left in AA's domestic network from PHX.


I’d say CLE, BNA, MSY, and TUL are the biggest holes at this point however all have at least daily nonstop WN service so I’m not sure they’re huge priorities.
 
YYZORD
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:12 pm

No PHX-YYZ or PHX-YYC?
 
upsmd11
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:22 pm

SDF is n the same boat, we have PHX non-stop on WN but no AA. AA just added SDF - LAX, seems good but probably misses a lot of connection opportunities.
 
boslax
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:27 pm

Let’s be honest, the only time AA adds domestic markets from Phoenix recently is when a competitor adds it first.
 
braniff2hav
Posts: 182
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:29 pm

Vctony wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Good adds. At this point I'd say BNA is the only real glaring hole left in AA's domestic network from PHX.


I’d say CLE, BNA, MSY, and TUL are the biggest holes at this point however all have at least daily nonstop WN service so I’m not sure they’re huge priorities.


The MSY-PHX AA hole will be filled quiet soon - it's been announced. I believe it starts in December.
 
airzona11
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:22 pm

Great to see.
 
citationjet
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:35 pm

Starting December 18, AA will fly nonstop to PHX from ICT. The service will operate daily but on a seasonal basis through May 6.

https://www.flywichita.com/american-airlines-adds-nonstop-to-phoenix/
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
citationjet
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:41 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
When America West, AA's predecessor started, COS was one of the original cities, with multiple flights per day.


From HP's first timetable, they had two non-stops a day to PHX.
http://www.departedflights.com/HP103083p1.html
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
jmscsc
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:44 pm

I wish they'd bring back PHX to BDL.
 
OKCDCA
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:57 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:

These are on point. People forget as well that when DEN was built it was considered out in the middle of nowhere similar to how DFW originally was. That was the reason HP founder Ed Beauvais founded Western Pacific Airlines at COS...he thought DEN's location would allow him to draw sufficient traffic. As F9 grew at DEN providing low cost competition, UA grew it's large network, and most importantly, the area immidiately surrounding DEN became populated and therefore "normal" for people to commute to. Suddenly, if you lived in COS, going to DEN wasn't too much trouble.

Unfortunately going to DEN has become too much trouble from COS. I-25 is an absolute nightmare with drive times between the two cities ranging from 1:45 to 2 hours due to the traffic and construction. COS is so convenient, I can show up 5 minutes before boarding starts and be from the curb to the gate in time for boarding. With the growth of the Pikes Peak region continuing, hopefully we get some more adds!
 
alasizon
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:10 pm

boslax wrote:
Let’s be honest, the only time AA adds domestic markets from Phoenix recently is when a competitor adds it first.


Can you point out who just added PHX-CID, PHX-ICT, PHX-MSY, PHX-RDU, or PHX-COS?

YYZORD wrote:
No PHX-YYZ or PHX-YYC?

PHX-Canada right now is extremely competitive between WS & AC plus competition from WS down at IWA. AA actually reduced YVR this year and has not loaded YEG for the year. Its more profitable to fly PHX-Midwest which provides a little better yields and uses a little less block time.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
JohnAudiR18
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:28 pm

Any word on aircraft for these routes? I assume PHX-FAR will either be a CRJ9 from Mesa or a CRJ7 from SkyWest.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:29 pm

JohnAudiR18 wrote:
Any word on aircraft for these routes? I assume PHX-FAR will either be a CRJ9 from Mesa or a CRJ7 from SkyWest.


The articles that have come out in the media show a 319 for FAR, COS & CVG while a 321 for FLL but there has been no official press release from AA. There is no slack in the CR7/9 fleets in PHX so any additional Regional adds require shifting something else to Mainline.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
citationjet
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:35 pm

alasizon wrote:
Can you point out who just added PHX-CID, PHX-ICT, PHX-MSY, PHX-RDU, or PHX-COS?


WN started PHX-ICT service on April 12, 2016.
https://www.flywichita.com/southwests-new-nonstops-begin-tuesday/
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:40 pm

citationjet wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Can you point out who just added PHX-CID, PHX-ICT, PHX-MSY, PHX-RDU, or PHX-COS?


WN started PHX-ICT service on April 12, 2016.
https://www.flywichita.com/southwests-new-nonstops-begin-tuesday/


Which was three years ago. The initial comment was that all of AA's adds were reactions to other recently added service by a competitor. Only Fargo meets that bill.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
Vctony
Posts: 613
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Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:57 pm

alasizon wrote:
citationjet wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Can you point out who just added PHX-CID, PHX-ICT, PHX-MSY, PHX-RDU, or PHX-COS?


WN started PHX-ICT service on April 12, 2016.
https://www.flywichita.com/southwests-new-nonstops-begin-tuesday/


Which was three years ago. The initial comment was that all of AA's adds were reactions to other recently added service by a competitor. Only Fargo meets that bill.


A lot of the smaller midwestern cities that AA has added in recent years have come after G4 has successfully proven service at AZA. Cities such as CID, FSD, FAR, GRR, MEM etc. fall into this category.

CVG, MSN, RDU and FLL are in response to F9 and B6.

MSY is really the only recent add that someone else hasn't recently added.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2225
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:09 pm

citationjet wrote:
Starting December 18, AA will fly nonstop to PHX from ICT. The service will operate daily but on a seasonal basis through May 6.

https://www.flywichita.com/american-airlines-adds-nonstop-to-phoenix/


Is there an exodus of snowbirds from the Wichita area to the Phoenix metro area? If not it seems like this route should be daily and year round to serve business travelers between ICT/ Phoenix and connecting cities through Phoenix.
 
uconn99
Posts: 369
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:23 pm

I believe PHX-BDL would be a logical add as there is plently of O&D between the Hartford area and Phoenix so any connections would just be a nice addition. However, with the Max issues, BDL has seen BDL-LAX go less than daily some weeks and BDL-DFW is down to 1x daily while usually being 2x daily. Once the Max issues are resolved and more planes are available, I could see AA trying PHX-BDL especially if BDL-DFW doesn't go back to 2x daily.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:31 pm

Vctony wrote:
A lot of the smaller midwestern cities that AA has added in recent years have come after G4 has successfully proven service at AZA. Cities such as CID, FSD, FAR, GRR, MEM etc. fall into this category.

CVG, MSN, RDU and FLL are in response to F9 and B6.

MSY is really the only recent add that someone else hasn't recently added.


I'm not denying that the G4 operation has helped prove some of those markets but none of the adds have been all that recent on G4 from what I recall and often a lot of the markets added have been in AA's wheelhouse.

RDU was added in March, almost 9 months after F9 announced their seasonal service and same with FLL and B6. I'm not sure that either of those qualify as a response.

MSN & CVG I will gladly give were direct shots at F9 given the almost immediate announcement.

dfwjim1 wrote:
citationjet wrote:
Starting December 18, AA will fly nonstop to PHX from ICT. The service will operate daily but on a seasonal basis through May 6.

https://www.flywichita.com/american-airlines-adds-nonstop-to-phoenix/


Is there an exodus of snowbirds from the Wichita area to the Phoenix metro area? If not it seems like this route should be daily and year round to serve business travelers between ICT/ Phoenix and connecting cities through Phoenix.


Much like FSD, its initially targeted at snow birds but could further go year round but that requires fleet availability which is a large issue right now. I'm not sure there is that much demand during the summer when coupled with WN already flying the route. Looking at some old data (2008-2018) there is consistently a large drop-off in Q3.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
YYZORD
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:32 pm

YYZ has service from most AA hubs except for PHX. I'm not counting LAX cause LAX seems more of a focus city tbh.

alasizon wrote:
boslax wrote:
Let’s be honest, the only time AA adds domestic markets from Phoenix recently is when a competitor adds it first.


Can you point out who just added PHX-CID, PHX-ICT, PHX-MSY, PHX-RDU, or PHX-COS?

YYZORD wrote:
No PHX-YYZ or PHX-YYC?

PHX-Canada right now is extremely competitive between WS & AC plus competition from WS down at IWA. AA actually reduced YVR this year and has not loaded YEG for the year. Its more profitable to fly PHX-Midwest which provides a little better yields and uses a little less block time.
 
Jo8338
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:27 am

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:22 am

How many times daily will PHX - FLL be?
Same schedule as before it was dropped?
Eastbound at 3pm RON in FLL and back at 7am?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1164
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:19 am

YYZORD wrote:
YYZ has service from most AA hubs except for PHX. I'm not counting LAX cause LAX seems more of a focus city tbh.

alasizon wrote:
boslax wrote:
Let’s be honest, the only time AA adds domestic markets from Phoenix recently is when a competitor adds it first.


Can you point out who just added PHX-CID, PHX-ICT, PHX-MSY, PHX-RDU, or PHX-COS?

YYZORD wrote:
No PHX-YYZ or PHX-YYC?

PHX-Canada right now is extremely competitive between WS & AC plus competition from WS down at IWA. AA actually reduced YVR this year and has not loaded YEG for the year. Its more profitable to fly PHX-Midwest which provides a little better yields and uses a little less block time.


Well... AA had LAX-YYZ service until it was cut last year.

Would you really consider LAX to be a focus city? Considering it has flights to Tokyo, Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Sydney, Auckland, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, and London along with numerous flights across the United States?...
 
Adipocere
Posts: 244
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:35 am

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:52 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
kind of pathetic, though. When America West, AA's predecessor started, COS was one of the original cities, with multiple flights per day. Now they cant even support one daily year round flight? Has the city of Colorado Springs changed that much? Have demand patterns changed so much?


Who's arguing that HP was a successful carrier in the day and that every route made money? Look at the traffic COS gets today: mainline to some of the country's biggest hubs like DFW, DEN, ATL (which PHX is not) and then primarily a bunch of CR2s. COS suffers the kiss of death for tertiary airports -- proximity to a big hub with lots of destinations, frequencies, and carriers providing price competition.


It’s kind of ironic that a parallel argument is made for dehubbing PHX citing its proximity to DFW and LAX (or to explain its lack of international flights).
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:24 pm

Adipocere wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
kind of pathetic, though. When America West, AA's predecessor started, COS was one of the original cities, with multiple flights per day. Now they cant even support one daily year round flight? Has the city of Colorado Springs changed that much? Have demand patterns changed so much?


Who's arguing that HP was a successful carrier in the day and that every route made money? Look at the traffic COS gets today: mainline to some of the country's biggest hubs like DFW, DEN, ATL (which PHX is not) and then primarily a bunch of CR2s. COS suffers the kiss of death for tertiary airports -- proximity to a big hub with lots of destinations, frequencies, and carriers providing price competition.


It’s kind of ironic that a parallel argument is made for dehubbing PHX citing its proximity to DFW and LAX (or to explain its lack of international flights).


And here we are five years after the fact and AA still has a hub at PHX with no plans to eliminate it, despite all of the prognostications from the experts on this website.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 3903
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: AA add new seasonal routes from PHX

Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:10 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:

These are on point. People forget as well that when DEN was built it was considered out in the middle of nowhere similar to how DFW originally was. That was the reason HP founder Ed Beauvais founded Western Pacific Airlines at COS...he thought DEN's location would allow him to draw sufficient traffic. As F9 grew at DEN providing low cost competition, UA grew it's large network, and most importantly, the area immidiately surrounding DEN became populated and therefore "normal" for people to commute to. Suddenly, if you lived in COS, going to DEN wasn't too much trouble.

Unfortunately going to DEN has become too much trouble from COS. I-25 is an absolute nightmare with drive times between the two cities ranging from 1:45 to 2 hours due to the traffic and construction. COS is so convenient, I can show up 5 minutes before boarding starts and be from the curb to the gate in time for boarding. With the growth of the Pikes Peak region continuing, hopefully we get some more adds!


I drive to DIA 4-5 times a week from the Springs. It’s indeed a nightmare however depending on the time it’s much less. I plan on 1.5 hours for my shift that starts at noon.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy

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