Blankbarcode
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S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:49 am

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... at-design/

Looks like the S1 seat designs that were making the rounds not too long ago with a larger recessed middle seat that the aisle seat can be slid over have been approved by the FAA.

What's interesting to me is that apparently they already have an order from a US-based airline for implementation in 50 aircraft. Do we already know who this is?

The concept is really interesting, and IMO probably one of the more human alternative seat designs we've seen in a while. Though this is probably the first time I've heard of an alternative design actually getting ordered!
 
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airportugal310
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:59 am

I can only guess Spirit or Allegiant...Spirit likes to be the first to implement new concepts. Perhaps also Frontier...
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
69bug
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:02 am

Looking at the pics in the link I don't see the armrests for the middle seat? In fact all the arm-rests are on the same plane and it looks a bit too high for the chap in the middle seat.
If you are a bit on the tall side it will be a challenge to park your legs (under the low middle seat in front of you) and elbows (the high armrests will be that much closer to your shoulders).
Wonder if they thought of alternating the seats..ie one set will have two high and one low, the next one will have two low and one high....

bug
 
Armadillo1
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:06 am

how much pitch middle seat take from behind row?
 
Armadillo1
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:08 am

69bug wrote:
Wonder if they thought of alternating the seats..ie one set will have two high and one low, the next one will have two low and one high....

what behefit?
 
Blankbarcode
Topic Author
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:23 am

Armadillo1 wrote:
how much pitch middle seat take from behind row?


If it's implemented throughout the entire aircraft, I'd assume not at all? Though I wonder how significant it is while pertaining to the emergency exits
 
spacecadet
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:30 am

69bug wrote:
Looking at the pics in the link I don't see the armrests for the middle seat?


Not only that, but the seat itself appears exactly the same width. If you look closely, only the backrests are different - and there's just an artificial gap in between the middle seat backrest and the aisle and window backrest. If you follow the gap down to the seat cushion itself, it doesn't match up. They've just made the aisle and window backrests a little thinner for no reason other than to make the middle seat occupant feel a little less inferior.
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ILNFlyer
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:21 pm

Needs adjustable to arm rests to work ok.
 
GalebG4
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:46 pm

It’s going to be interesting to see passengers reactions during boarding while someone is going to wait for middle seat to be “seating” position. I mean good luck S1 this might be breakthrough for passenger experience in future.
 
69bug
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:37 am

Armadillo1 wrote:
69bug wrote:
Wonder if they thought of alternating the seats..ie one set will have two high and one low, the next one will have two low and one high....

what behefit?


Sitting on a lower seat your legs need to be stuck out in front...(so it would be nice to have a higher seat in front = more space), sitting on a high seat your legs would be more upright (no need that much space under the seat in front).

bug
 
Wingtips56
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:51 am

It looks like the person in the middle would be wedged in behind the shoulders (and other broad parts) of the window/aisle passengers, and would probably lose the battle for the arm rests (too high for the middle) worse than now. I would think it to be a bit more claustrophobic compared to just being squeezed in side by side now.

Then too, with the middle seats set back, wouldn't the seat in front impinge on the window seat person's access to the aisle? I'm thinking of it being tighter to get out in an emergency, along with the middle-seat carry-on baggage on the floor sticking into the space as well. I'm sure all this was considered in the certification of the seat .... or was it?
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btafan
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:05 am

Looks like they share so that each passenger gets half an armrest
Image
 
nz2
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:18 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
It looks like the person in the middle would be wedged in behind the shoulders (and other broad parts) of the window/aisle passengers, and would probably lose the battle for the arm rests (too high for the middle) worse than now. I would think it to be a bit more claustrophobic compared to just being squeezed in side by side now.

Then too, with the middle seats set back, wouldn't the seat in front impinge on the window seat person's access to the aisle? I'm thinking of it being tighter to get out in an emergency, along with the middle-seat carry-on baggage on the floor sticking into the space as well. I'm sure all this was considered in the certification of the seat .... or was it?


The pitch for the middle seat is the same as the other 2, just recessed relative to aisle and window seat location.

Regarding armrests, as the middle pax sits behind and below the other 2, the lower part of the shared armrest is for the middle pax exclusive, as noted in the article. The others sitting higher and further forward use the higher/forward part of the arm rest. Agree there may be an element of being "overhung" by the pax either side but with normal sized people it should be fine.
 
klkla
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:22 am

This is a case where they are just over thinking seat design. The middle passenger is already wedged between two other passengers. Having that person fit further back and lower will do nothing to make it feel less claustrophobic.
 
ricq
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:28 am

Looks like a big improvement to me. More hip room, more shoulder room, an armrest that can be shared (unlike now where one person takes the whole thing and the other has nothing). Will be interesting to try out.
 
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AAlaxfan
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:37 am

Can't wait to see the person in the window seat climb over everyone to go the bathroom! :crowded:
Last edited by AAlaxfan on Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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StinkyPinky
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:37 am

klkla wrote:
This is a case where they are just over thinking seat design. The middle passenger is already wedged between two other passengers. Having that person fit further back and lower will do nothing to make it feel less claustrophobic.


I had the same thought, as if you're now being swallowed up even more. Now the middle seat person will have two elbows in their face as well. And how much elbowroom can you have if you have two adjacent seatbacks in the way? And I guess these seats dont recline. The window seat in the row behind would be completely blocked in!
 
ikramerica
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:56 am

StinkyPinky wrote:
klkla wrote:
This is a case where they are just over thinking seat design. The middle passenger is already wedged between two other passengers. Having that person fit further back and lower will do nothing to make it feel less claustrophobic.


I had the same thought, as if you're now being swallowed up even more. Now the middle seat person will have two elbows in their face as well. And how much elbowroom can you have if you have two adjacent seatbacks in the way? And I guess these seats dont recline. The window seat in the row behind would be completely blocked in!

Now you aren’t even on even footing fighting for shoulder room. Now you are behind the shoulders of your neighbors, pinned into place. Hooray.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:01 am

This is exactly what Boeing needs in the way of cabin innovation for a rehabilitated 737-8(200).

Another alternative might be the staggered seating concept of the Embraer E’s 4 abreast business class concept.... translated to a 6 abreast “more room,” concept for the plus cabins.

This would make the feel of the new 737-8 different than the old MAX.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
hiflyeras
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:07 am

Put 'people of size' in the window and aisle seats and that poor person in the middle will be having their neighbor's rear end and thighs spilling out onto their legs. This sounds positively awful to me.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:25 am

I actually like the idea of skewing the two aisle seats back leaving the window and middle seats skewed forward in a pair in a three seat unit of a narrow body.

For the seats way out back past the wing emergency exits... well who cares... they do not provide the yield and thus the odd lower middle seat might work just as well and more cheaply, and still differentiate the new 737-8 cabin

I see the big advantage of the slider feature ... useful for the 6 seats at the back of the for the 10 deep lines to the toilets, and maybe 2 or 3 seats in the cabin so the flight attendants have a true boarding station to lift bags for those that bring the kitchen sink granite in their bags on board cannot lift their bags themselves.

(;

https://www.skiesmag.com/press-releases ... ngercabin/
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
prebennorholm
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:35 am

Really big people, who have to buy two seats to accommodate their butt, they will have some extra fun if this becomes the norm.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Armadillo1
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:47 am

btafan wrote:
Looks like they share so that each passenger gets half an armrest
Image

Look at this legroom, lol
 
69bug
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:25 am

Having done my share of elbow jousting I wouldn't mind trying it out. I usually sleep well on flights so having elbow space is worth it.

bug
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:04 pm

Looking at this seat in more detail.... noting the pitch of the middle seat to non middle seat transitions;

• the FAA approved Embraer staggered seating concept or
•the FAA approved S1 seat may also be a huge fix to enhance the longevity of the Bombardier CRJ Cramp Jet fleets.

Or any other tight 4 abreast fleet. Can you imagine if staggered seating had been applied to the Concorde fleet!!!! CozySuite may some day get the go ahead one day too maybe.

Tightness was one of the drawbacks many faulted Concorde for.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
INFINITI329
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:50 pm

What happens with the last row of seats that's usually against the bulkhead on most airlines?
 
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par13del
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:53 pm

So who performed the certification test for these seats, were crash and fire test conducted by the FAA or outsourced?
The FAA is under heavy scrutiny, somewhat surprised it was not mentioned in the article.
 
flyingcat
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:06 pm

Interesting about the side slip feature. Seems more convoluted than the original request from airlines to have the aisle seat flip up like in a movie theater. It will definitely help loading times and overhead baggage retrieval.


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WayexTDI
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:16 pm

par13del wrote:
So who performed the certification test for these seats, were crash and fire test conducted by the FAA or outsourced?
The FAA is under heavy scrutiny, somewhat surprised it was not mentioned in the article.

Fire Resistance Tests are very well defined and the same for everyone; independent labs can do them and certify the material as compliant.
It's very different than certifying a system like the MCAS, where there are pretty no 2 systems alike.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:21 pm

AAlaxfan wrote:
Can't wait to see the person in the window seat climb over everyone to go the bathroom! :crowded:


Right?! It looks like hell.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: S1 recessed- and sliding seats approved by FAA

Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:18 am

Hey all here is a video. Apparently some are confused by the “flip up (I believe zodiac) seat” of the Embraer staggered seats, with the S1 seat design.

S1 seat highlights:
• launch customer airline already
• side slip feature option
• wider middle seat (not good for cushion interchangeability imho)
• more space for all
• does not recline

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YlJMhpESBNw
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!

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