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PatrickZ80
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Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:46 pm

https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/5969810/am ... steem.html

Amsterdam airport is currently suffering from a failure in the fuel supply system. Because of this, aircraft cannot be refueled and are therefor stuck on the ground. Lots of flights are delayed or cancelled.

It is yet unknown when the fuel supply system will be operational again.
 
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:01 pm

How very odd 17:00GMT and only one plane just departed, EK148. Must be a nightmare for all
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VSMUT
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:05 pm

How does EU 261 play in here? Is it an exceptional situation?
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:07 pm

Must be hell to fix it and to work in Europe today, or have to wait in the plane, very hot temperatures on the ground.

Today was the hottest day in recorded Dutch history.
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zkojq
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:23 pm

FlyRow wrote:
Must be hell to fix it and to work in Europe today, or have to wait in the plane, very hot temperatures on the ground.

Today was the hottest day in recorded Dutch history.


How hot was it?
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petertenthije
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:28 pm

zkojq wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
Must be hell to fix it and to work in Europe today, or have to wait in the plane, very hot temperatures on the ground.

Today was the hottest day in recorded Dutch history.


How hot was it?

38+ in the southeast, around 34 at Schiphol.

Edited to add:
As of today the record stands at 39,3. Recorded at Gilze-Rijen.
Last edited by petertenthije on Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sw733
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:28 pm

zkojq wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
Must be hell to fix it and to work in Europe today, or have to wait in the plane, very hot temperatures on the ground.

Today was the hottest day in recorded Dutch history.


How hot was it?


Right now (in the early evening) it's 32 in Amsterdam. Tomorrow's high is projected to be around 38 or 39!
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:31 pm

zkojq wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
Must be hell to fix it and to work in Europe today, or have to wait in the plane, very hot temperatures on the ground.

Today was the hottest day in recorded Dutch history.


How hot was it?


Record now is 39.3 in Eindhoven, I expect 40+ tommorow, even the night low will be 28+ Thursday on friday.
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superbizzy73
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:39 pm

“Without fuel, pilots (and passengers) are pedestrians.”

All kidding aside, to have your fueling system go down was one of my worst nightmares working in the industry. I truly hope they get the problem alleviated quickly. A situation like that can have ramifications on operations for days.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:53 pm

Some flights seem to drop by other airports to pick up fuel. TK1958 is flying to BRU and a Norwegian flight to JFK seems to be lining up for LGW.
 
KLM747er
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:59 pm

Also EK149 is diverting to Dusseldorf
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:13 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
How very odd 17:00GMT and only one plane just departed, EK148. Must be a nightmare for all


From what I heard they left cargo behind, and are making a fuel stop in ATH on the way!
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readytotaxi
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:29 pm

The BBC reports that the airport has said the problem may well continue overnight, not good. Hotels will be filling up fast.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:53 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
The BBC reports that the airport has said the problem may well continue overnight, not good. Hotels will be filling up fast.


Hotels were probably already booked full for the summer holidays. They're arranging field beds for passengers who have to stay overnight. People who are able to are advised to go home.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:00 pm

Ouch. Hope they resolve the issue soon. That is utter chaos if they can't distribute fuel to those aircraft.
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indcwby
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:08 pm

Just a thought from my travels in Europe and with regards to KLM's recent comments of flying less for the environments sake. Could not airlines accommodate passengers through Europe's extensive high speed rail? If it'll be days to get a flight out, has this ever been an option?
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VSMUT
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:13 pm

So I guess Air France just became the best financial performer in the AF-KLM group this year? :duck:
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:18 pm

indcwby wrote:
Just a thought from my travels in Europe and with regards to KLM's recent comments of flying less for the environments sake. Could not airlines accommodate passengers through Europe's extensive high speed rail? If it'll be days to get a flight out, has this ever been an option?


They could to a limited number of destinations, however by far not all KLM destinations can be reached through high speed rail. In fact the Netherlands only has one high speed railway line, leading from Amsterdam south to Brussels and ultimately Paris. Connections into Germany use regular low speed rail.

KLM has a large presence in the UK, however the only UK destination that can be reached by train from the Netherlands is London. Anything beyond London is impossible unless you count the ferries. Also Scandinavia isn't exactly convenient by high speed rail. KLM has a large presence in Norway, try getting there by train.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:51 pm

indcwby wrote:
Just a thought from my travels in Europe and with regards to KLM's recent comments of flying less for the environments sake. Could not airlines accommodate passengers through Europe's extensive high speed rail? If it'll be days to get a flight out, has this ever been an option?


'Europe' doesn't have an extensive HSR network. A few, actually just Germany and France, countries does have a good network, and some have a few lines here and there. But it's not what anybody would label 'extensive'

Besides, there may well be thousands of travellers with intercontinental flights booked for this evening. For them, rail is even less of an option than it is for the vast majority of other stranded passengers.
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JPhoto
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:59 pm

The fuel supply system is back in action again according to the airports website. Good luck to the people that are still stuck and might not leave today.
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Blankbarcode
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:59 pm

AMS has been in the (local) news time and time again, they're really dropping the ball and as a passenger the experience has only gotten worse. I really hope they manage to get things on track because this has been going on for years.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:05 pm

B777LRF wrote:
'Europe' doesn't have an extensive HSR network. A few, actually just Germany and France, countries does have a good network, and some have a few lines here and there. But it's not what anybody would label 'extensive'


You forgot Spain, Switzerland and Italy. But otherwise, you are correct.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:31 pm

KLM should be pleased- they got their wish for people to stop flying.
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readytotaxi
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:35 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
KLM should be pleased- they got their wish for people to stop flying.

Indeed they did. Worth remembering that the problem lay with a third party provider to the airport.
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PANAMsterdam
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:51 pm

What strikes me about this occurrence is that there is apparently no back-up system that could (at least) provide some fuel.
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paperwastage
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:04 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
What strikes me about this occurrence is that there is apparently no back-up system that could (at least) provide some fuel.

I believe they do have some fuel trucks (for remote stands), but it really depends where the fuel system broke

Reminds me of the fuel pipeline issue at Auckland airport in 2017, need to read up on how they resolved it

https://www.klm.com/aircraftservices/en ... lling.html

Schiphol Airport
Aircraft Refuelling
The hub of our Aircraft Refuelling department is located at the airport tank farm, a safe distance from the hustle and bustle of the main terminal. From here, our fleet of modern bowsers and dispenser trucks are deployed all over the airport. We have three large bowsers (80m3) and 15 smaller bowsers (40m3) that refuel aircraft on remote stands and positions. We also have 21 dispensers that pump fuel from the airport fuel system into waiting aircraft.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:16 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
What strikes me about this occurrence is that there is apparently no back-up system that could (at least) provide some fuel.


Exactly my thought. Actually, the ARA port region (Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Antwerp) got one of the most sophisticated infrastructure systems in the world and is one of the world`s biggest hubs of oil/fuel distribution. One should expect that if one supply chain fails another one could at least partially jump in. The pipline is broken? Get some lorry drivers, even during the peak holiday season!
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:03 pm

Kilopond wrote:
The pipline is broken? Get some lorry drivers, even during the peak holiday season!

I don't know if anybody keeps drivers sitting around just waiting for something to happen.
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YIMBY
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:28 am

indcwby wrote:
Just a thought from my travels in Europe and with regards to KLM's recent comments of flying less for the environments sake. Could not airlines accommodate passengers through Europe's extensive high speed rail? If it'll be days to get a flight out, has this ever been an option?


This season trains go full. Otherwise I expect that the passengers that are in hurry and for whom train is an acceptable option may have bought the tickets themselves. The queue to the ticket office may be very long.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:52 am

What annoys me about the passengers' responses is that default "We don't get any information"-response. I mean, what else could Schiphol have said or done besides: "We don't have fuel, we don't know when the problem will be fixed. We are working our butts off to restore it. Sorry about the inconvenience". I read that people complain that they don't get information about the status of their flights... Well, it is 2019: there is an app for that.

This is literally a situation where the only thing they can advise is: Sit and wait until it is fixed.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:14 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
What annoys me about the passengers' responses is that default "We don't get any information"-response. I mean, what else could Schiphol have said or done besides: "We don't have fuel, we don't know when the problem will be fixed. We are working our butts off to restore it. Sorry about the inconvenience". I read that people complain that they don't get information about the status of their flights... Well, it is 2019: there is an app for that.

This is literally a situation where the only thing they can advise is: Sit and wait until it is fixed.


What really is the problem for most of those complaining passengers is that their flight has been cancelled and they need to be rebooked, however they don't get any info on what flight they will be rebooked and when they are due for departure.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:14 am

B777LRF wrote:
'Europe' doesn't have an extensive HSR network. A few, actually just Germany and France, countries does have a good network, and some have a few lines here and there. But it's not what anybody would label 'extensive'.


Spain has the longest HSR network (including U/C with a number of new segments due to open in 2020/21) in Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_h ... lway_lines

Spain (3,240 + 2,285) = 5,525
France (3,300 + 570) = 3,870
Germany (3,045 + 550) = 3,595
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:15 am

If they get a really long hose, they can connect Amsterdam airport to somewhere in Germany or Belgium.
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:30 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
What annoys me about the passengers' responses is that default "We don't get any information"-response. I mean, what else could Schiphol have said or done besides: "We don't have fuel, we don't know when the problem will be fixed. We are working our butts off to restore it. Sorry about the inconvenience". I read that people complain that they don't get information about the status of their flights... Well, it is 2019: there is an app for that.

This is literally a situation where the only thing they can advise is: Sit and wait until it is fixed.

"We don't know", isn't very passenger friendly. Of course they don't know exactly, but the do have some kind of general idea. "We don't know" to a passenger's perspective who doesn't know anything about airport operations could mean anything, five minutes, five hours, five days, five weeks...Fully explaining airport's managment understanding of the situation would have gone along way to ease passenger anger. Most passengers understand that things occasionally go wrong, but not understanding what is happening is a recipe for bad feelings.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:11 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
'Europe' doesn't have an extensive HSR network. A few, actually just Germany and France, countries does have a good network, and some have a few lines here and there. But it's not what anybody would label 'extensive'.


Spain has the longest HSR network (including U/C with a number of new segments due to open in 2020/21) in Europe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_h ... lway_lines

Spain (3,240 + 2,285) = 5,525
France (3,300 + 570) = 3,870
Germany (3,045 + 550) = 3,595


High speed rail may work reasonably well within a certain country, however "international" train travel is still quite difficult.

From AMS you have only a few overpriced trains to Paris (Thalys) and one daily train from London (one way only). Other than that there is a hourly InterCity to Brussels but that is pretty much it. The ICE to Germany rides on regular lines so is quite slow.

With a few exceptions, rail connections between France, Germany, Italy and Spain are either slow running over regular tracks in mountainous areas or non-existent. Capacity is quite low on these routes.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:13 pm

AirKevin wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
The pipline is broken? Get some lorry drivers, even during the peak holiday season!

I don't know if anybody keeps drivers sitting around just waiting for something to happen.


You are perfectly right, but that`s not what I would suggest. Rather a well-run airport should always have a pool of security-approved local people who could help out under extreme conditions by working at a second job as some kind of freelancers. Like farmers operating snowploughs just a few times every calender year at MUC.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:50 am

afgeneral wrote:

High speed rail may work reasonably well within a certain country, however "international" train travel is still quite difficult.

From AMS you have only a few overpriced trains to Paris (Thalys) and one daily train from London (one way only). Other than that there is a hourly InterCity to Brussels but that is pretty much it. The ICE to Germany rides on regular lines so is quite slow.

With a few exceptions, rail connections between France, Germany, Italy and Spain are either slow running over regular tracks in mountainous areas or non-existent. Capacity is quite low on these routes.


That is very right. It is not only due to mountains but different technology, e.g. electricity and traffic control system. Locomotive may have to be changed in the border unless expensive double or triple technology engines are used. Many international trains are quite short-haul, only to the first major city, where you have to change to national train.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:14 am

VSMUT wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
'Europe' doesn't have an extensive HSR network. A few, actually just Germany and France, countries does have a good network, and some have a few lines here and there. But it's not what anybody would label 'extensive'


You forgot Spain, Switzerland and Italy. But otherwise, you are correct.


Switzerland does not have high-speed rail. (Specially-configured, dual-voltage) French TGVs do come into Geneva and Lausanne for example, but they run at slow speed in CH and through the Jura, until they reach the high-speed tracks near Bourg-en-Bresse in Geneva's case.

There is a 200km/h stretch between Bern and Olten from memory, but that's about as much as you get. Gotthard tunnel was supposed to be 250km/h I believe, but they @#$%ed that up VIA Rail-style and are currently running at the usual max of 160km/h AFAIK.
 
Blerg
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:17 am

I suppose all problems were fixed by now? How long did it take them?
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:35 am

Yeah, the problems are over. IIRC, I read that the total outage was about 8-9 hours, but the consequences were noticeable well into the next day (the delays etc.). Apparently it was an electrical problem, after which the system shut itself down. New parts were required to fix it. Maybe in combination with someone hitting a kill switch. An official independent investigation should indentify the cause and make sure that it can't happen again.
 
factsonly
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:38 am

afgeneral wrote:

From AMS you have only a few overpriced trains to Paris (Thalys) and one daily train from London (one way only).


You may be happy to learn that Thalys runs 12x daily, that is an hourly train service from AMS to Paris, while Eurostar runs 3x daily London-Amsterdam.

Eurostar - LONDON-AMSTERDAM:
- St Pancras = dep. 07.17 + 11.04 + 17.16
- Amsterdam = arrival 12.11 + 16.11 + 22.11

You are right, that prices tend to be high compared to coach and plane.

https://content-static.eurostar.com/doc ... _EN_AW.pdf
 
Eikie
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:45 am

factsonly wrote:
afgeneral wrote:

From AMS you have only a few overpriced trains to Paris (Thalys) and one daily train from London (one way only).


You may be happy to learn that Thalys runs 12x daily, that is an hourly train service from AMS to Paris, while Eurostar runs 3x daily London-Amsterdam.

Eurostar - LONDON-AMSTERDAM:
- St Pancras = dep. 07.17 + 11.04 + 17.16
- Amsterdam = arrival 12.11 + 16.11 + 22.11

You are right, that prices tend to be high compared to coach and plane.

https://content-static.eurostar.com/doc ... _EN_AW.pdf

You will be unhappy to learn that on the days that airline traffic from Amsterdam was/is severly impacted, both the Eurostar and Thalys trains are also sevely impacted.

https://www.thalys.com/nl/en/traffic-info/26744
https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en
 
marcogr12
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:19 am

It seems that apart from AMS, VCE has been having lots of cancellations and delays, yesterday and today..Does anyone know what's goin on there too? London airports yesterday were affected by storms with severe delays and cancellations too...
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:37 am

Kilopond wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
The pipline is broken? Get some lorry drivers, even during the peak holiday season!

I don't know if anybody keeps drivers sitting around just waiting for something to happen.

You are perfectly right, but that`s not what I would suggest. Rather a well-run airport should always have a pool of security-approved local people who could help out under extreme conditions by working at a second job as some kind of freelancers. Like farmers operating snowploughs just a few times every calender year at MUC.

Slight problem, you can't have just anybody driving a fuel truck, or any heavy truck, for that matter. In order to operate one, you need a commercial driver's license. At least in the United States, if you don't operate a commercial vehicle for a certain period of time (I think 30 days or so), you'd have to go through re-training, so this isn't necessarily as straightforward as you think. And if you have a CDL, more than likely you have a full-time job driving anyway, otherwise what would be the point of going through the hassle just to get it.
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VSMUT
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:59 am

AirKevin wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
I don't know if anybody keeps drivers sitting around just waiting for something to happen.

You are perfectly right, but that`s not what I would suggest. Rather a well-run airport should always have a pool of security-approved local people who could help out under extreme conditions by working at a second job as some kind of freelancers. Like farmers operating snowploughs just a few times every calender year at MUC.

Slight problem, you can't have just anybody driving a fuel truck, or any heavy truck, for that matter. In order to operate one, you need a commercial driver's license. At least in the United States, if you don't operate a commercial vehicle for a certain period of time (I think 30 days or so), you'd have to go through re-training, so this isn't necessarily as straightforward as you think. And if you have a CDL, more than likely you have a full-time job driving anyway, otherwise what would be the point of going through the hassle just to get it.


I doubt it requires a specific truck drivers license in the EU, just dangerous goods training, which practically all truck drivers should receive that as part of the basic truck driving license.

But that would probably not be such a big issue. The airport already has plenty refueling trucks, just the ones that pump from the ground to the wing. The drivers of those should have all the training and permits required. Sourcing aircraft refueling trucks with fuel tanks is a bigger issue. They don't just lie around at refineries and in ports. Small airports with not so much traffic only have 1 or 2 trucks available, big airports with many trucks would be reluctant to lend them out.

The fuel supply to the fuel farms at AMS were not affected, they would be hooked up to the central Europe NATO pipeline system.
 
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Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:49 am

VSMUT wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
Kilopond wrote:
You are perfectly right, but that`s not what I would suggest. Rather a well-run airport should always have a pool of security-approved local people who could help out under extreme conditions by working at a second job as some kind of freelancers. Like farmers operating snowploughs just a few times every calender year at MUC.

Slight problem, you can't have just anybody driving a fuel truck, or any heavy truck, for that matter. In order to operate one, you need a commercial driver's license. At least in the United States, if you don't operate a commercial vehicle for a certain period of time (I think 30 days or so), you'd have to go through re-training, so this isn't necessarily as straightforward as you think. And if you have a CDL, more than likely you have a full-time job driving anyway, otherwise what would be the point of going through the hassle just to get it.


I doubt it requires a specific truck drivers license in the EU, just dangerous goods training, which practically all truck drivers should receive that as part of the basic truck driving license.


I think the licence AirKevin mentions is the equivalent of the European CPC, which is valid for five years. Not sure how common it is to have the required training to be able to handle dangerous goods though.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Lots of delays and cancellations at Amsterdam due to fuel supply failure

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:30 pm

And once again Amsterdam Airport is having problems with it's fuel system. Once again flights are delayed.

At this point in time, it is uncertain how long the disruption will take or how many flights will be affected. It is also unknown if it has the same cause as last time.

https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/5976719/op ... iphol.html

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