MIflyer12
Posts: 5867
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:40 pm

twaconnie wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
JFK actually seems logical at this point. AA is squatting on slots that Southwest could purchase (maybe) and make plenty use for their NYC operation.

B6 would sure have something to say about WN picking up AA slots at JFK.


How is that? They can't argue the slots would be going to a dominant carrier. There's a great argument it would increase competition - the #3 carrier at JFK selling slots to the world's largest LCC.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5867
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:43 pm

flybry wrote:
Do you think anyone might come in and start DEN-EWR so it’s not a United monopoly route?


F9 is the logical choice with the remnants of its DEN hub but Spirit is pretty good at cherry-picking. If UA gets too greedy they'll get some competition.
 
bpat777
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 1999 8:21 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:15 am

How can LGA as a station absorb dozens of EWR employees while keeping the same amount of flights?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:37 am

http://www.twu555.org/wp-content/upload ... 160407.pdf

Page 46 of their CBA. They can bump junior employees etc.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:39 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
msp747 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

It doesn't help WN that they're at the "kiddie table" at MSP (Terminal 2/Humphrey) with SY while all of the other carriers are at Terminal 1/Lindbergh (though, allegedly, all non SkyTeam carriers will eventually shifted to Humphrey if/when the Metro Airports Commission follows through on their 2035 Master Plan to rebuild the airport).


Um... what? I know plenty of people in the Twin Cities that prefer using T2 (Humphrey) over T1. Why is it the "kiddie table" and Lindbergh so much better? Unless you are making connections, T2 is so much easier to deal with. What is WN missing out on by being where they are?


It just feels like two separate airports at MSP from my past experience flying into Humphrey Terminal. It’s kinda like DTW and the difference between McNamara and North terminals.


Just my 2 cents, I never understood why MSP chose to stay downtown and not relocate to the suburbs. They could’ve built a new singular terminal and housed everyone under one roof, plus built a more efficient design. For better or worse, once the SLC work is done, MSP will be the only one of DL’s interior hubs without a linear style terminal/concourse layout.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:15 am

caljn wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
From 1995-2010 the NYC area when through a huge revival

It became a hot spot for population growth, urban renewal, and business growth.

Around 2010, something interesting happened...the area started choking on its own population growth. Infrastructure that was 100 years old started to crumble and collapse under the strain.

People not in the region dont understand the crisis we are facing. We have round the clock traffic jams. Our mass transit is no longer reliable. We are choked with app based taxis. People are biking and getting killed on cramped streets. The Airtrain systems are inadequate. Runway capacity is inadequate. You face 15 minute traffic jams on terminal roadways just to get to terminal doors.

NY is one big, crowded mess.

Furthermore, like the rest of the country, we have become politically polarized.

After excessive financial difficulties in the 60s and 70s under liberal rule, the area trended more moderate politically from the 80s thru the 2010s. A more business friendly tone was adopted.

The area started a leftward movement around 2010. This has led to a markedly-less business friendly environment.

You put the crumbling infrastructure and the leftward political tilt together and you have a host of new fees, taxes, and tolls that have hit NY and NJ in the last year. The Port Authority just proposed massive increases in tolls, fares and fees that will make your trip to EWR a lot more expensive next year.

$4 on your taxi drop off. $7.75 just to ride the AirTrain. Tolls closing in on $20 to get thru the tunnel to the city.

Long story short, Amazon was the biggest story, but lots of businesses are looking at all of this with weary eyes.

Frankly, it is just too hard to live, work and play here.

In a round about way...WN is just saying, it isnt worth it for this Texas airline. Frankly, I dont blame them



A "less business friendly environment" that has attracted, as you state, record growth. Interesting.
And evidently the leftward tilt was not left enough as we're still straining under overused infrastructure with little plan to improve...except that one key project a governor with an "R" next to his name killed. Oh the irony.


NY state hasn’t have an”R” governor since 2006, and the problems listed above and leftward movement started well after. You have no point.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... f_New_York
 
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msp747
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:25 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
msp747 wrote:

Um... what? I know plenty of people in the Twin Cities that prefer using T2 (Humphrey) over T1. Why is it the "kiddie table" and Lindbergh so much better? Unless you are making connections, T2 is so much easier to deal with. What is WN missing out on by being where they are?


It just feels like two separate airports at MSP from my past experience flying into Humphrey Terminal. It’s kinda like DTW and the difference between McNamara and North terminals.


Just my 2 cents, I never understood why MSP chose to stay downtown and not relocate to the suburbs. They could’ve built a new singular terminal and housed everyone under one roof, plus built a more efficient design. For better or worse, once the SLC work is done, MSP will be the only one of DL’s interior hubs without a linear style terminal/concourse layout.

I'm guessing you feel that way because you only go to MSP when you are connecting, as opposed to visiting the area. The current airport is fairly centralized to the entire metro area (It's not downtown, but close), is right off a number of key highways, and has light rail service. It's not like it has outgrown the space they have, like say DCA, LGA, or Stapleton. They could have probably done a linear redesign if they really wanted to, but I'm sure they found it to be cost prohibitive. Why move 10-20 miles further away if you don't have to? The 2 terminal design works fine, because none of the carriers in T2 have to worry about passengers making connections to T1. WN has all the space they need, and its passengers don't have to deal with the Delta crowds. All Delta flights are in T1, and while it isn't the greatest design, it don't find it any harder to connect in than a linear design where you have to change concourses.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:55 am

msp747 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

It just feels like two separate airports at MSP from my past experience flying into Humphrey Terminal. It’s kinda like DTW and the difference between McNamara and North terminals.


Just my 2 cents, I never understood why MSP chose to stay downtown and not relocate to the suburbs. They could’ve built a new singular terminal and housed everyone under one roof, plus built a more efficient design. For better or worse, once the SLC work is done, MSP will be the only one of DL’s interior hubs without a linear style terminal/concourse layout.

I'm guessing you feel that way because you only go to MSP when you are connecting, as opposed to visiting the area. The current airport is fairly centralized to the entire metro area (It's not downtown, but close), is right off a number of key highways, and has light rail service. It's not like it has outgrown the space they have, like say DCA, LGA, or Stapleton. They could have probably done a linear redesign if they really wanted to, but I'm sure they found it to be cost prohibitive. Why move 10-20 miles further away if you don't have to? The 2 terminal design works fine, because none of the carriers in T2 have to worry about passengers making connections to T1. WN has all the space they need, and its passengers don't have to deal with the Delta crowds. All Delta flights are in T1, and while it isn't the greatest design, it don't find it any harder to connect in than a linear design where you have to change concourses.


It is a horrible design for a connecting complex, but you are correct that it is a good O&D airport. Since MSP isn't a hub on the level of say, an ORD or DEN, and DL has DTW also in the midwest, there isn't a pressing need to relocate/replace it. But I was just thinking it was odd MSP chose the exact opposite of what *most* other cities did that had similar landlocked airports (Denver, Austin, Chicago, etc).

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
 
N649DL
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:30 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
flybry wrote:
Do you think anyone might come in and start DEN-EWR so it’s not a United monopoly route?


F9 is about the only one that makes much sense to me. I can’t see DL or AA running it.


Yeah pretty much. Although WN currently flies EWR-AUS and DL just made AUS a focus city. I could see DL flying EWR-AUS on A220s in the future considering they fly them already on EWR-DTW/MSP. That and with the M88/M90 retirements, EWR-ATL is getting upgraded to mostly 738s during the fall.

Sad to see WN leave EWR after being there for less than 10 years. I would bet all those gates in A-1 will be the LCC satellite at EWR with that oddball DL gate in B-1 for Spirit consolidated to that wing as well.

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I don't blame southwest for leaving EWR, the NY airports are horrible and costs run super high. They do a MAX problem and this helps


The MAX is just an excuse for EWR being a dog for them. To me with LGA having so much more competition and WN essentially being let into EWR after UA/CO merged, it's surprising that they haven't been able to make ops work out there. The only thing I can think of is the fact that WN has changed up routes quite a few times over the last 5 years that they've come off as quite indecisive as to their overall strategy there.

That said, EWR seems to becoming more and more niche as time goes on. Take how DL has completely dumped EWR-AMS/CDG and is focusing more on domestic routes like EWR-BOS/RDU for instance.
 
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STT757
Posts: 13874
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:07 am

There’s something wrong with WN, EWR has been growing faster the last few years than LGA or Kennedy. EWR grew by 7.2% last year, well outpacing LGA’s .02 or Kennedy’s 2% growth.

EWR is the region’s busiest airport for domestic travelers, and WN is mostly a domestic carrier. NK has been growing like crazy at EWR recently, and B6 is strong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
rj1385
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:23 am

STT757 wrote:
There’s something wrong with WN, EWR has been growing faster the last few years than LGA or Kennedy. EWR grew by 7.2% last year, well outpacing LGA’s .02 or Kennedy’s 2% growth.

EWR is the region’s busiest airport for domestic travelers, and WN is mostly a domestic carrier. NK has been growing like crazy at EWR recently, and B6 is strong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, EWR has been seeing growth but the FAA also eased up control on 81 slots per hour allowing more growth as long as the airlines can find some place to park their plane. LGA and JFK are still under slot restrictions and in so will not see much growth other than larger planes.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5474
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:20 am

rj1385 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
There’s something wrong with WN, EWR has been growing faster the last few years than LGA or Kennedy. EWR grew by 7.2% last year, well outpacing LGA’s .02 or Kennedy’s 2% growth.

EWR is the region’s busiest airport for domestic travelers, and WN is mostly a domestic carrier. NK has been growing like crazy at EWR recently, and B6 is strong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, EWR has been seeing growth but the FAA also eased up control on 81 slots per hour allowing more growth as long as the airlines can find some place to park their plane. LGA and JFK are still under slot restrictions and in so will not see much growth other than larger planes.



He knows that.

He knows more about EWR and the PA than any person on this site.

In Posts like that, he willfully ignores his knowledge to describe a narrative that he wants to get across.

Back to slots...the FAA has re clamped-down on EWR ops because delays are simply out of control and unsustainable.

At this point the only time they don’t have delays are when they are operating on the 22s and 29 on a clear days.

In an area with strong NW/NE winds on a regular basis, that isnt sustainable
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:18 pm

Extremely happy WN is closing EWR and to those whining/thinking they can force WN to operate flights they don't want to, kick rocks.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:23 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
msp747 wrote:

Um... what? I know plenty of people in the Twin Cities that prefer using T2 (Humphrey) over T1. Why is it the "kiddie table" and Lindbergh so much better? Unless you are making connections, T2 is so much easier to deal with. What is WN missing out on by being where they are?


It just feels like two separate airports at MSP from my past experience flying into Humphrey Terminal. It’s kinda like DTW and the difference between McNamara and North terminals.


Just my 2 cents, I never understood why MSP chose to stay downtown and not relocate to the suburbs. They could’ve built a new singular terminal and housed everyone under one roof, plus built a more efficient design. For better or worse, once the SLC work is done, MSP will be the only one of DL’s interior hubs without a linear style terminal/concourse layout.


What are you talking about? MSP is NOT downtown, it's not even really located in Minneapolis, it's mostly located in the unincorporated Fort Snelling.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
globalflyer
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:15 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:56 pm

Any idea when the slots will be reallocated and to what carriers?
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:02 pm

It is kind of odd to think Southwest cannot make Chicago Midway to Newark work at a minimum.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:05 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
rj1385 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
There’s something wrong with WN, EWR has been growing faster the last few years than LGA or Kennedy. EWR grew by 7.2% last year, well outpacing LGA’s .02 or Kennedy’s 2% growth.

EWR is the region’s busiest airport for domestic travelers, and WN is mostly a domestic carrier. NK has been growing like crazy at EWR recently, and B6 is strong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, EWR has been seeing growth but the FAA also eased up control on 81 slots per hour allowing more growth as long as the airlines can find some place to park their plane. LGA and JFK are still under slot restrictions and in so will not see much growth other than larger planes.



He knows that.

He knows more about EWR and the PA than any person on this site.

In Posts like that, he willfully ignores his knowledge to describe a narrative that he wants to get across.

Back to slots...the FAA has re clamped-down on EWR ops because delays are simply out of control and unsustainable.

At this point the only time they don’t have delays are when they are operating on the 22s and 29 on a clear days.

In an area with strong NW/NE winds on a regular basis, that isnt sustainable

Basically there isn’t a GDP when they can land on the overflow 11, not 29.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:06 pm

globalflyer wrote:
Any idea when the slots will be reallocated and to what carriers?

There are no slots. EWR IS NOT SLOT CONTROLLED.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:28 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
globalflyer wrote:
Any idea when the slots will be reallocated and to what carriers?

There are no slots. EWR IS NOT SLOT CONTROLLED.


There are not many available gates though, especially for wide bodies.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13874
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:45 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
It is kind of odd to think Southwest cannot make Chicago Midway to Newark work at a minimum.


I cannot think of why they didn’t try EWR-DAL and EWR-ATL.

I think MDW, DEN, DAL, ATL, LAS, PHX, AUS would have been a strong offering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jplatts
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:31 pm

STT757 wrote:
I cannot think of why they didn’t try EWR-DAL and EWR-ATL.


WN previously did consider serving DAL nonstop from EWR, but WN ended up increasing DAL-LGA nonstop service instead.
 
jplatts
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: WN to close EWR

Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:48 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
It is kind of odd to think Southwest cannot make Chicago Midway to Newark work at a minimum.


Here are the load factors for WN nonstop routes out of EWR in 2018:
EWR-MCO 90.26%
EWR-PHX 88.77%
EWR-FLL 88.06%
EWR-OAK 87.06%
EWR-DEN 86.45%
EWR-SAN 84.56%
EWR-AUS 83.11%
EWR-STL 82.88%
EWR-MDW 80.38%
EWR-IND 63.30% (already dropped)

I also previously mentioned that EWR actually had one of the highest load factors in the WN network in 2018. EWR-MDW also had higher load factors than some other WN nonstop routes out of MDW in 2018.
 
flybry
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:26 am

Re: WN to close EWR

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:22 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Extremely happy WN is closing EWR and to those whining/thinking they can force WN to operate flights they don't want to, kick rocks.


Extremely happy? Lolz! Um ok.

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