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william
Posts: 3333
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:00 pm

Ah yes, connecting from AA to BA in Heathrow. I would be happy with just more signage for connecting pax in sterile exit corridor in T3. If AA is going to keep this "connection" scheme going, please add more buses (AA you better not schedule a connection less than 2 hours) (the route from T3 to T5 is interesting from the AvGeek in me, not exactly sure what airport road it is with tunnels and turns). Why do I have to go through security again in T5 if I arrived from a security sterile environment (kudos UK for not me taking my shoes off though)? Am I arriving on the 1rst floor of T5 only to go the 2nd or third floor for security to back down to the first floor, where the "mall" is (per my wife, and I have to agree, the US international terminals suck in comparison to LHR,FRA and CDG.....shopping wise) to catch the train to the other T5 concourse.? At the other T5 concourse one goes up three floors ( I was looking down at the A320 ) to go down one floor to the gate (wait, I am not at the gate, why am I showing my passport?)

LHR is a experience if an Anetter or a "nerve racking" if you are an AA pax just wanting to get to your destination( judging from the comments of my fellow pax). While T5 amenities are better than anything AA has in the states, its much easier to fly into DFW Terminal D, go through customs and spill out on the concourse to connect to over 900 flights. One will just be disappointed in the shopping choices. :D

Must add, I found the BA and LHR staff friendly and helpful.
 
J343
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:41 pm

TUGMASTER wrote:
As per reply’s in other threads,
Can’t say why I know, but the JFK’s are heading to T5.
Unsure what BA will throw over to T3, but it’s happening.
And sooner than you think.
Current plan is before year end.



Well that's a shame. When flying to N.America, I normally choose AA over BA. AA has a better product in Y, Y+ and J compared to BA, the only difference being AA crew are less friendly. Also one more reason why I prefer using AA to N.America is because LHR T3 has the CX and QF lounges which are superior compared to BA lounges in T5 and T5B.
 
Bhoy
Posts: 554
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:42 am

Skyguy wrote:
Do BA use T5A for widebodies? I seem to recall only seeing narrow bodies there.

BA's 763s regularly operated from T5A, although I don't know if allocations have changed since they left the fleet.
 
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vhtje
Posts: 1212
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:54 am

J343 wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
As per reply’s in other threads,
Can’t say why I know, but the JFK’s are heading to T5.
Unsure what BA will throw over to T3, but it’s happening.
And sooner than you think.
Current plan is before year end.



Well that's a shame. When flying to N.America, I normally choose AA over BA. AA has a better product in Y, Y+ and J compared to BA, the only difference being AA crew are less friendly. Also one more reason why I prefer using AA to N.America is because LHR T3 has the CX and QF lounges which are superior compared to BA lounges in T5 and T5B.


Per TUGMASTER’s post, it is only AA’s JFK ops that are moving.

It makes sense. BA/AA make much of the frequency of their joint JFK service. But the split ops mean moving from one carrier to another during IROPS is almost impossible. This will fix that.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:33 am

Bhoy wrote:
Skyguy wrote:
Do BA use T5A for widebodies? I seem to recall only seeing narrow bodies there.

BA's 763s regularly operated from T5A, although I don't know if allocations have changed since they left the fleet.


There are 4 gates are outright B763 capable gates, including 1 in domestic area. Then there are 3 narrow body gate can be converted to 2 wide body gates. So a total of 6, out of 18 contact jet bridge gates. Or 4 out of 19 contact jet bridge gates.
 
J343
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:46 am

vhtje wrote:
J343 wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
As per reply’s in other threads,
Can’t say why I know, but the JFK’s are heading to T5.
Unsure what BA will throw over to T3, but it’s happening.
And sooner than you think.
Current plan is before year end.



Well that's a shame. When flying to N.America, I normally choose AA over BA. AA has a better product in Y, Y+ and J compared to BA, the only difference being AA crew are less friendly. Also one more reason why I prefer using AA to N.America is because LHR T3 has the CX and QF lounges which are superior compared to BA lounges in T5 and T5B.


Per TUGMASTER’s post, it is only AA’s JFK ops that are moving.

It makes sense. BA/AA make much of the frequency of their joint JFK service. But the split ops mean moving from one carrier to another during IROPS is almost impossible. This will fix that.


Yeah I gathered. When I fly to N.America, I almost always fly to JFK and from there take a domestic flight- most often to SFO, MIA and LAX.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4835
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:54 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
Apologies...
Menzies will Not be in T5

Possible scenario will be similar to when Menzies towed the BD A32X’s..... they only took it to the 590’s stands , BA then picked up the aircraft from there, and took to T5 gates.

Blimey that's interesting! Never knew it got that complex.....
 
JonNYC
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:26 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:17 pm

vhtje wrote:
J343 wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
As per reply’s in other threads,
Can’t say why I know, but the JFK’s are heading to T5.
Unsure what BA will throw over to T3, but it’s happening.
And sooner than you think.
Current plan is before year end.



Well that's a shame. When flying to N.America, I normally choose AA over BA. AA has a better product in Y, Y+ and J compared to BA, the only difference being AA crew are less friendly. Also one more reason why I prefer using AA to N.America is because LHR T3 has the CX and QF lounges which are superior compared to BA lounges in T5 and T5B.


Per TUGMASTER’s post, it is only AA’s JFK ops that are moving.

It makes sense. BA/AA make much of the frequency of their joint JFK service. But the split ops mean moving from one carrier to another during IROPS is almost impossible. This will fix that.

The initial stages are just the JFK flights, not sure one can say it's -only- the JFK flights that are moving to T5, that's not the impression I'm under.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:44 pm

JonNYC wrote:
vhtje wrote:
J343 wrote:


Well that's a shame. When flying to N.America, I normally choose AA over BA. AA has a better product in Y, Y+ and J compared to BA, the only difference being AA crew are less friendly. Also one more reason why I prefer using AA to N.America is because LHR T3 has the CX and QF lounges which are superior compared to BA lounges in T5 and T5B.


Per TUGMASTER’s post, it is only AA’s JFK ops that are moving.

It makes sense. BA/AA make much of the frequency of their joint JFK service. But the split ops mean moving from one carrier to another during IROPS is almost impossible. This will fix that.

The initial stages are just the JFK flights, not sure one can say it's -only- the JFK flights that are moving to T5, that's not the impression I'm under.


Oh well, AA non-rev in LHR just got a little bit more complicated than before until all move is finished.

I hope they do have AA staff in T5, because when IB was under BA management in T5, non-rev was complicated if you are flying IB.
 
Bongodog49
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:03 pm

Bhoy wrote:
Skyguy wrote:
Do BA use T5A for widebodies? I seem to recall only seeing narrow bodies there.

BA's 763s regularly operated from T5A, although I don't know if allocations have changed since they left the fleet.


A few years back IO was amazed when our 744 from Boston taxied in to a gate at 5A, I mentioned this to a stewardess and her reply was that she was just as surprised.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3076
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:13 pm

It will be interesting to see what long haul routes ( if any ) BA chuck out to T3 as they only operate the Mid J 747 and A380 from there, with the vast majority of Mid J routes are serviced from T3 already.
 
SoEWR
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:39 am

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:36 pm

BA could just build T5D and move the fuel farm and the fire service. That would make this all easier.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5188
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:39 pm

Assuming that AA is pushing BA to allows a shift its LHR operations from Terminal 3 to Terminal 5, one has to assume that BA would like to move its ORD departures from Terminal 5 to Terminal 3. IB already departs out out of ORD T3 for MAD, as does JAL for MRT.

The problem is that BA has been using a 744 and an A380 on ORD-LHR. Those probably won't fit into the gates on K used for international departures, especially the A380.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:26 pm

SoEWR wrote:
BA could just build T5D and move the fuel farm and the fire service. That would make this all easier.


British Airways are not responsible for the infrastructure that they use at LHR, the airport is owned by HEATHROW AIRPORT LIMITED and they are the ones responsible for building new infrastructures at the airport.

HAL have recently published their Masterplan for the future of Heathrow Airport and there are no plans for T5D. The fly-through video is online for all to see.

The stands around a possible T5D are already in use so by building an extra satellite it wouldn't be gaining any additional stands plus the building of a possible T5D would take approximately two years to build so not really helping the current situation.

The cost of removing and relocation of the Fire Station and Fuel Farm would prohibit the cost of building a possible T5D.

People need to drop the idea of a possible T5D because it's not happening and HAL have clearly pointed this out in it's latest Masterplan, it totally frustrates me everytime someone proposes the idea here on a.net.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:27 pm

SoEWR wrote:
BA could just build T5D and move the fuel farm and the fire service. That would make this all easier.


BA can not just build T5D. Firstly, it has to be built by BAA (or whatever it is called today), the owner of Heathrow airport. Second, the whole project needs to be approved by relevant authorities. It is much quicker to build the rest of T2 and move several airlines over so that there are rooms for BA to move some more operation to T3 and then wait for T2C to be built.

At least the T2 is approved building and it is much quicker to finish the unfinished T2 then shuffle the airlines. T5D would take too long to draw the plan and implement the plan with endless fight between the airport owner, the authorities, BA, the firefighter service and fuel facility beneficiaries.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:35 pm

chonetsao wrote:
SoEWR wrote:
BA could just build T5D and move the fuel farm and the fire service. That would make this all easier.


BA can not just build T5D. Firstly, it has to be built by BAA (or whatever it is called today), the owner of Heathrow airport. Second, the whole project needs to be approved by relevant authorities. It is much quicker to build the rest of T2 and move several airlines over so that there are rooms for BA to move some more operation to T3 and then wait for T2C to be built.

At least the T2 is approved building and it is much quicker to finish the unfinished T2 then shuffle the airlines. T5D would take too long to draw the plan and implement the plan with endless fight between the airport owner, the authorities, BA, the firefighter service and fuel facility beneficiaries.


EXACTLY and well put, some people don't look at the bigger picture when making such irrational comments :-)

FYI BAA British Airports Authority has not existed since 2012, London Heathrow Airport is owned by HEATHROW AIRPORT HOLDINGS LIMITED.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 915
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:44 pm

chonetsao wrote:
SoEWR wrote:
BA could just build T5D and move the fuel farm and the fire service. That would make this all easier.


BA can not just build T5D. Firstly, it has to be built by BAA (or whatever it is called today), the owner of Heathrow airport. Second, the whole project needs to be approved by relevant authorities. It is much quicker to build the rest of T2 and move several airlines over so that there are rooms for BA to move some more operation to T3 and then wait for T2C to be built.

At least the T2 is approved building and it is much quicker to finish the unfinished T2 then shuffle the airlines. T5D would take too long to draw the plan and implement the plan with endless fight between the airport owner, the authorities, BA, the firefighter service and fuel facility beneficiaries.


What about interconnecting T3 and T5?
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:15 pm

BNAMealer

There will be no interconnecting between Terminal 3 and Terminal 5.

The recently released Heathrow Airport Masterplan has the full details regarding the future of Heathrow Airport. There is also a fly through video and it's is online for all to see via the airport's website, in fact it was posted here on a.net at the time of it's release a few weeks ago.

Heathrow Airport Terminal 3 is not part of that Masterplan and it has been discussed here on a.net on numerous occasions.

Heathrow Airport Terminal 3 will be demolished once Terminal 2 is finally extended to it's original plans with an extended terminal and an extra satellite as in T2C.

The Central Terminal Area will then be totally revamped with just the one terminal as in Terminal 2. Terminal 2 will have been fully extended and Terminal 3 will have gone and two extra satellite buildings will be built in the space that's currently occupied by Terminal 3. These two satellites will be connected to an expanded Terminal 2 by an underground train.

As I mentioned at the beginning of my post, all this information is easily accessible online :-)
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
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Aisak
Posts: 929
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:25 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
What about interconnecting T3 and T5?


Again, same as T5D.. what is the expected outcome?

All international inbound passengers at T5 complex have to be processed at T5A somehow vía these facilities:
- The UK border for all passengers ending their trip at LHR
- The connections centre AND a security control at T5A and wait there until onward gate is published
- The UK border AND a security control if they are connecting to a UK or CTA destination.

If you add in a huge chunk of passengers from T3 arriving (acting as a third satellite building I presume) from a not-precisely-cheap-and-easy-to build transit train extension, the main terminal at T5 will simply colapse from the overflow. If the aim of the project is easing up connections from T5 to T3 or from T5 domestics to T3, this will probably make them slower and thus requiring increasing the MCT again.

T5 complex with the LHR and UK self-imposed limitations (holding all passengers at T5A and re-clearing all intl passengers connecting) cannot easily handle WAY MORE than 50% passengers at LHR.

Add to the business case that T3 is to disappear to become a satellite and several remote stands for the new T2 extension, and figures just don’t add up.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 915
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:33 pm

Aisak wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
What about interconnecting T3 and T5?


Again, same as T5D.. what is the expected outcome?

All international inbound passengers at T5 complex have to be processed at T5A somehow vía these facilities:
- The UK border for all passengers ending their trip at LHR
- The connections centre AND a security control at T5A and wait there until onward gate is published
- The UK border AND a security control if they are connecting to a UK or CTA destination.

If you add in a huge chunk of passengers from T3 arriving (acting as a third satellite building I presume) from a not-precisely-cheap-and-easy-to build transit train extension, the main terminal at T5 will simply colapse from the overflow. If the aim of the project is easing up connections from T5 to T3 or from T5 domestics to T3, this will probably make them slower and thus requiring increasing the MCT again.

T5 complex with the LHR and UK self-imposed limitations (holding all passengers at T5A and re-clearing all intl passengers connecting) cannot easily handle WAY MORE than 50% passengers at LHR.

Add to the business case that T3 is to disappear to become a satellite and several remote stands for the new T2 extension, and figures just don’t add up.


So in other words, there is no way BA/AA will ever be able to co-locate all their flights in the same terminal, even with the expansion?
 
chonetsao
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:29 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Aisak wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
What about interconnecting T3 and T5?


So in other words, there is no way BA/AA will ever be able to co-locate all their flights in the same terminal, even with the expansion?


Depends.

If you look at the Heathrow Master Plan. A new terminal T6 will be build west of T5A, which would be much bigger than current T5A. Supposedly it should house all oneworld airlines and BA. Also there is rumor that if preclearance is approved in LHR, it would be likely to be the new T6. Should the preclearance does not land in LHR, it is likely BA may wish to move into the T6 while put all oneworld partners in T5. Again, according to the master plan, T6 will have a satellite terminal between the north runway and the new third runway. But nobody knows when this would be finally built.

So now, just stick to the plan that T2 will be built first, BA can not have all flights in T5 but will move some out to T3 to accommodate AA. Things move in LHR in a snails pace, so do not plan for anything change drastically until 2022-2023.
 
Lofty
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:23 pm

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:44 am

chonetsao wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
Skyguy wrote:
Do BA use T5A for widebodies? I seem to recall only seeing narrow bodies there.

BA's 763s regularly operated from T5A, although I don't know if allocations have changed since they left the fleet.


There are 4 gates are outright B763 capable gates, including 1 in domestic area. Then there are 3 narrow body gate can be converted to 2 wide body gates. So a total of 6, out of 18 contact jet bridge gates. Or 4 out of 19 contact jet bridge gates.


Stand 518 is a B747-400 stand without using any other stands, you could have 3 B747-400s in T5A
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4835
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: AA move to T5 in LHR?

Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:49 am

Christmas Day 2008 I was flying to NRT and saw a line up of BA B744s on 518, 516 and 514, never seen it since alas, as the latter two take up 2 A320 stands for one heavy

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