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CountableRex89
Topic Author
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Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:20 am

I ran into a topic on O'Hare's expansion plan, and I happened to run into this one, this is pretty big in my opinion because I think the City of Chicago misused it's spending money or changing plans into this very important project in the future, your thoughts on this? https://projects.bettergov.org/2019/oha ... -promises/
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:49 am

I think there was another thread on this, but yes, Chicago is corrupt as all get out.

-Former CHI resident
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
twaconnie
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:27 am

Wow that's quite a story, I was wandering if MDW also falls into the same category?
 
IPFreely
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:05 pm

CountableRex89 wrote:
I think the City of Chicago misused it's spending money


This is not news.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:22 pm

regardless, the article mentions that the delay reduction cant be critiqued until the final runway configuration is complete., The fact that UA and AA sued the city saying this reconfiguration wasn't necessary speaks volumes about those two companies. The two finally relented when more govt funding was assured.
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:32 pm

Anyone who still in 2019 is shocked by corruption in Chicago is a fool.

Source - lives in Chicago for 13 years.
 
slcguy
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:44 pm

Don't won't to sound rude but as soon I saw Chicago, knew where this was going. As a contrast there is the new terminal complex being built in SLC, a large sum of the cost is from money the SLC Dept. of Airports has accrued over the years, federal grants that airports can receive for improvements, bond revenues gained over the years, PFCs on passengers and revenue generated from lease fees on tenants. The fees on tenants was kept as low as possible (to keep Delta on board with this). No money from the Salt Lake City general fund budget or local tax payers dollars are being used. Planning, financing, layout and construction phasing has been in works for 20 years. This was not an overnight deal and anybody that has been to SLC recently can see the planning has paid off, the old terminals and concourses continue to function normally but are slowly being dwarfed by the new complex. Sorry for the SLC plug, but hey, check out my user name LOL.
Last edited by slcguy on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
blueflyer
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:47 pm

This is actually a poorly written piece. It badly needs an executive summary... Read about half of it, lots of mentions of well-paid lobbyists and a handful of people in jail (so the system works?), lots of money spent on projects behind schedule or canceled.... but not a shred of evidence, just innuendos, rumors, allegation with no back up, and recounts of cases that ended up with jail sentences. The nearest they do come to show a really shady deal is around a state agency that has nothing to do with the airport....

Not trying to defend Chicago, the entire city could be corrupt from head to toe for all I know, but this article brings no evidence whatsoever... Can I get my 5 minutes back?
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:23 pm

The runway work has at least reduced delays.

The people mover and terminal improvements seem like a mess.
 
jayunited
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:27 pm

RJNUT wrote:
regardless, the article mentions that the delay reduction cant be critiqued until the final runway configuration is complete., The fact that UA and AA sued the city saying this reconfiguration wasn't necessary speaks volumes about those two companies. The two finally relented when more govt funding was assured.


What volumes are you referring to?
Is it the fact the 9/11 happened and and demand dropped? Or was it the fact that ATC and the FAA called the original runway reconfiguration plans dangerous and the city had to resubmit the plans several times before the FAA signed off on it? Or is it that Mayor Daley thought he could steamroll AA and UA into shouldering the bill for this project with no oversight from the airlines, no input from the airlines, and most of all no guarantee that they would have access to the gates and terminals their funds would help build while letting every other airline that served ORD off the hook free and clear. When AA and UA sued to block construction they made the right choice for them and their passengers had they not both of these airlines would still be laden with bills from this ORD modernization mess. The best thing these two airlines did was come together to stand against Mayor Daley and corruption of the Chicago Political Machine which would have used them as their own personal piggy bank and ORD would still be in the same mess we find it today.
City Hall does not care about how tax payer dollars are spent or wasted, but seeing how grossly over budget and behind schedule this project is AA and UA made the right decision. Last year Mayor Emmanuel was able to secure government funding and a deal that sees all domestic carriers that serve ORD contribute to the ORD modernization plan that deal which was fair saw both AA and UA get on-board.
 
dopplerd
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:33 pm

blueflyer wrote:
This is actually a poorly written piece. It badly needs an executive summary... Read about half of it, lots of mentions of well-paid lobbyists and a handful of people in jail (so the system works?), lots of money spent on projects behind schedule or canceled.... but not a shred of evidence, just innuendos, rumors, allegation with no back up, and recounts of cases that ended up with jail sentences. The nearest they do come to show a really shady deal is around a state agency that has nothing to do with the airport....

Not trying to defend Chicago, the entire city could be corrupt from head to toe for all I know, but this article brings no evidence whatsoever... Can I get my 5 minutes back?


I had a similar reaction. There are a ton of issues to address at ORD/MDW in the way projects are handled. The gist of this article seems to be that since billions have been spent there is rampant waste. The people mover is a debacle but has been covered extensively elsewhere, there is nothing new in this article. The whole thing is a general rehash of known issues and has not brought anything new to the table.

To me a bigger issue is the impunity with which Dept of Aviation employees treat the day to day issues at the airport not the big master plan level :

-- $115,000,000 payout due to poor/no maintenance of a bus shelter
-- serious runway incursions that are treated with a slap on the wrist
-- employee side security checkpoints that are a joke (security staff that get put out when you interrupt their netflix to have them do their job)
-- losing master keys to the whole airport (granted that guy was fired)
-- security staff galavanting as police until they knocked a guy out
-- a general FU attitude to even be asked to do their jobs

The inmates are running the asylum. You have to fix the bottom to improve the results at the top.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1216
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:45 pm

dopplerd wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
This is actually a poorly written piece. It badly needs an executive summary... Read about half of it, lots of mentions of well-paid lobbyists and a handful of people in jail (so the system works?), lots of money spent on projects behind schedule or canceled.... but not a shred of evidence, just innuendos, rumors, allegation with no back up, and recounts of cases that ended up with jail sentences. The nearest they do come to show a really shady deal is around a state agency that has nothing to do with the airport....

Not trying to defend Chicago, the entire city could be corrupt from head to toe for all I know, but this article brings no evidence whatsoever... Can I get my 5 minutes back?


I had a similar reaction. There are a ton of issues to address at ORD/MDW in the way projects are handled. The gist of this article seems to be that since billions have been spent there is rampant waste. The people mover is a debacle but has been covered extensively elsewhere, there is nothing new in this article. The whole thing is a general rehash of known issues and has not brought anything new to the table.

To me a bigger issue is the impunity with which Dept of Aviation employees treat the day to day issues at the airport not the big master plan level :

-- $115,000,000 payout due to poor/no maintenance of a bus shelter
-- serious runway incursions that are treated with a slap on the wrist
-- employee side security checkpoints that are a joke (security staff that get put out when you interrupt their netflix to have them do their job)
-- losing master keys to the whole airport (granted that guy was fired)
-- security staff galavanting as police until they knocked a guy out
-- a general FU attitude to even be asked to do their jobs

The inmates are running the asylum. You have to fix the bottom to improve the results at the top.


Excellent summary.
 
AIRTRANSAT767
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:53 pm

f I remember Chicago ORD was the airport or had more traffic !! In the world I can always be wrong
i love air transat and fan all boeing
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:01 pm

AIRTRANSAT767 wrote:
f I remember Chicago ORD was the airport or had more traffic !! In the world I can always be wrong

That was by accident. Chi just happened to be in the right place at the right time until ATL, and then LAX, passed it by. Definitely not a result of planning.
 
77H
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:17 am

IPFreely wrote:
CountableRex89 wrote:
I think the City of Chicago misused it's spending money


This is not news.


Not news at all. As a matter of fact, what government entity doesn’t these days?

Out here in HNL, everyday there seems to be a new publication or story breaking about another corruption scandal.

77H
 
strfyr51
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:34 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
The runway work has at least reduced delays.

The people mover and terminal improvements seem like a mess.

the people mover is being extended to the new parking garage. I 'll bet the job wasn't a one day job. I used the people mover a LOT when I still worked for United in downtown Chicago and flew home to Cali on my days off before I retired, It was no secret it was going to be closed so I don't know WHY anyone would act like this is some freakin' surprise..
 
Dreamflight767
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:57 am

What makes it all worse is that the corruption is a known issue with lots of evidence but it never gets fixed and nobody has to answer for it.
 
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kordcj
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:43 am

The article is terribly written. It appears more to be more of a political slander piece than an article that goes in to detail on how the city has wasted money on expanding the airport. What I find interesting is that it doesn’t touch on any of the issues that drove up the costs of improving the airfield in the first place.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
747-600X
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:57 am

This article is a poorly-written attack and nothing more.

What "international terminal" are they referring to? The terminals built in the 1950s were perfectly adequate and normal for their day, and continue to serve perfectly well as domestic hubs. They're old, but they have aged relatively well. They're in need of replacement, so... they're being replaced. This is fine. The current international terminal was built in the '90s and is generally well-received.

The people-mover works just fine. It moves people between terminals and long-term parking and is currently being extended to the brand new, very nice rental car facility. It's a nice facility comparable to the people-movers at many other airports. What's the issue there?

United's Helmut Jahn Terminal 1 was replaced more or less at United's desires. The current building is too small and aging poorly, but it's still a perfectly average and serviceable facility.

Terminals 2 and 3 are old (1950s) and badly in need of replacement. The current plan is to replace them (or at least 2). What's... the problem???
 
ltbewr
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:25 am

We are all aware of the serious corruption and wastes of money as to airports in the USA but also around the world. Note for example the total mess the new Berlin airport is. It isn't just the government agencies that run and/or own them nor the corruption and need for good paying jobs of politicians get votes with, but also contractors, construction worker unions, and yes, the airlines themselves (recall UA's 'charirman's Flight' at EWR to get favorable treatment from the PANYNJ).

This is further made worse by bad planning, bad engineering, glamours designs that don't work, since 9/11 the replacement, expansion, and reconfiguration of terminals for increased security and increased passenger numbers, airline bankruptcies and many cities looking at airports as 'cash cows' to fund other needs without tapping into local taxpayers.
 
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United787
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:10 pm

The article is completely garbage. Not worth the bytes it is written on.
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:58 pm

Dreamflight767 wrote:
What makes it all worse is that the corruption is a known issue with lots of evidence but it never gets fixed and nobody has to answer for it.

At one time there was a "right kind" of potential Republican party leadership that would have played it straight, but Chicago (aka Democratic) politics made sure connections prevailed over getting a world class airport built. The real opportunity was blown in the era of RJD and TK.
 
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kngkyle
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Re: Chicago spent billions and possible broken promises on O'Hare Airport's expansion plan?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:46 pm

Dreamflight767 wrote:
What makes it all worse is that the corruption is a known issue with lots of evidence but it never gets fixed and nobody has to answer for it.


Things seem to be finally turning a new leaf with the new mayor and many in the corrupt city government under federal investigation.

However, some would argue that the corruption in Chicago doesn't come without some side benefits. Sure, everything might cost 20+% more than it needs to because of payoffs, but at least big projects actually get done. Were it not for corruption could Chicago have pulled off the badly needed runway re-alignment in the first place? Bear in mind that this project required the use of eminent domain to bulldoze an entire neighborhood (one that wasn't even within city limits) and digging up a thousand graves. Could that have been achieved otherwise? Not sure.

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