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rampbro
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:23 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:

The plan for transitioning the carrier began long before Onex purchased the company. This road path was cleared and approved by the previous board pf directors during the years of then ceo Greg Saretsky. Onex is a cash infusion with the current management executing the continuation of the business transformation plan.


This. I used WS as my primary carrier for business travel from ~2014 until I left my travelling job last year. In the market I'm in, WS far outstrips AC for quality of frequency - what I mean by this is I absolutely hate the 15-20 minute Dash8 flight to YVR. It didn't matter to me that there was an AC departure from YYJ every hour, when 1/3 trips back into YYJ the last Dash from YVR would sit on the ramp until 1 am waiting for late cnx.
I also can't bear to fly UA, so the JV with Delta (my other carrier of choice) worked well for me.
WS have struggled on the soft business product (3rd party lounges in particular), but the FF program is great, especially when I had Gold status. Lots of free, unexpected upgrades to the front of the plane, good prices on purchased upgrades, and very good customer service compared to AC, In terms of hard product, eurobiz is obviously less desirable than true j, but that never seemed to matter when I just wanted to get home on time.
 
Dominion301
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:29 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
I was just naming examples of past and present. Yes


In that case, we need to throw Wardair into the mix. :spin:
 
yzfElite
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:11 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
yzfElite wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:

Correction, Air Transat is Canada’s leisure airline. Westjet is considered Canada’s second national airline, its main business is derived from primarily domestic air service as that is where they are currently well focused according to their route map. However prior to covid 19 , Westjet was priming for more international growth. You cannot describe Westjet as simply leisure orientated when they have focused and continue to ,over the years ,on the Toronto -Montreal Ottawa triangle and the Toronto -Laguardia route.

Its pending Department of Transportation approval for its trans border joint venture with Delta is also a clue that Westjet is trying to further strengthen its position in the usa-canada market, therefore not just a leisure airline. It may have started as small domestic discount airline, but has or is morphing into a full service carrier aimed at attracting a wide range of business .


I consider Rouge and Westjet to both be leisure carriers. I understand your points and WS has been trying hard to break into the AC lock on business travel, particularly transborder and now Europe, but the reality is that they are a long way behind AC in business travel and, without doing the research, I would assert potentially behind or neck and neck with several US carriers in terms of business travellers Canada-US. The recent CEOs and new owners of WS want it to move away from the original model, but they were still finding their way beyond leisure travellers when covid hit and my original point is that it surprised me they were brining those routes back so quickly given the amount of capital that would be required to subsidize flights that have yet to build themselves beyond leisure traffic which is presently close to non-existent transborder.


Just to add some light , leisure carriers are airlines that focus on the transportation of tourists.

Canada......Air Canada Rouge, Sunwing, Air Transat
UK......TUI-Thomson, Thomas Cook, and in the past Monarch, Brittania, etc.
France.....Corsair, XL Airways,.
Germany.....Condor
Switzerland......Edelweiss
Australia.......Jetstar
Netherlands.....TUI Fly
Turkey.....Corendon Airlines
Israel......Arkia, Sun D'Or
etc

Westjet does not focus on tourists. During the border shut down , Westjet continues to fly nationally, funnelling domestic travel, a key performer of revenue for the company . Notice how the three holiday airlines Transat Sunwing and Rouge currently are grounded whereas the national carriers Air Canada and Westjet continue to service the domestic market.

In the past, the term “charter airline” was widely used to describe these airlines as most holiday flights were then not sold directly by the airline to the passengers but were included in charter packages offered by tour operators. Nowadays, however, many holiday flights are operated as scheduled, albeit often seasonal services.

leisure carriers achieve low costs per seat mile in focusing on direct point-to-point flights using homogenous fleets of medium to large aircraft with high-density seating.

Westjet uses hub and spokes. Leisure carriers offer very low frequency to sun destinations whereas a hybrid airline like Westjet currently is, offers least daily frequencies on most routes.

Finally, Westjet has a frequent flyer program , a leisure airline would not have this, example sunwing , tui. Westjet’s first owned business lounge will be opening this summer in Calgary, something a leisure airline does not possess.

By true definition , Westjet is not defined as a Leisure airline but more as a hybrid airline ( somewhere between a low cost and full service airline) until they fully complete their transition to full service carrier.

The plan for transitioning the carrier began long before Onex purchased the company. This road path was cleared and approved by the previous board pf directors during the years of then ceo Greg Saretsky. Onex is a cash infusion with the current management executing the continuation of the business transformation plan.


I understand the points you are making and I stand by my view that it is premature for WS to go back into markets where I view their main clientele to be those making discretionary trips. You don't have to agree with me and I'm providing my viewpoint based on experience/knowledge without detailed evidence so I am also not challenging your viewpoint.

I consider leisure to include travel to see friends/family, etc. which I think WS strongly competes with AC on and probably beats them in many markets. What I stand by is the view that most essential travel and business travel remains with AC, particularly for transborder and Europe. In fact, in some parts of the country, I believe WS is in third place behind Porter in certain markets. Porter has chosen to stay grounded, which I think is probably a strong move. WS probably don't want to lose long-term market share, but I suspect they'll struggle to fill plans on US routes with even more difficulty than AC. If it were me, when the government extended the border restrictions, I would have cancelled more flights. I haven't heard if the 14 day quarantine requirement is being extended after tomorrow, but if it is, combined with the US surge in cases, I can't see there being too many seats sold transborder for at least a month for AC, WS or US carriers.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:08 pm

I acknowledge that Air Canada controls 46%of the domestic market share and Westjet controls 34 percent share of the domestic market. That data right there proves it is not just leisure travel driving that percentile. If that were so then their market share in the domestic market would by now would have been much smaller and gobbled up by other carriers. I do not agree that tourists and VFR traffic fuel the majority of bookings .

You discount the fact that Westjet codeshares with Delta on many trans border routes. Key new market Atlanta as a key point for connections on to Deltas vast usa network. Wj analysts have all the numbers and data to warrant them restarting those said routes. I am not an arm chair ceo.
 
yzfElite
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:04 pm

duplicate
Last edited by yzfElite on Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
yzfElite
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:05 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
I acknowledge that Air Canada controls 46%of the domestic market share and Westjet controls 34 percent share of the domestic market. That data right there proves it is not just leisure travel driving that percentile. If that were so then their market share in the domestic market would by now would have been much smaller and gobbled up by other carriers. I do not agree that tourists and VFR traffic fuel the majority of bookings .

You discount the fact that Westjet codeshares with Delta on many trans border routes. Key new market Atlanta as a key point for connections on to Deltas vast usa network. Wj analysts have all the numbers and data to warrant them restarting those said routes. I am not an arm chair ceo.


I agree with you, domestically WS have a lot of the share of all types of traffic. My original point is the one you're also making for me above...WS is still making its way into being a player in the US with the new Delta arrangement and trying to open routes. This is costly and takes time, which my point being I'm surprised they so quickly are going back when they don't have an established set of routes to support business traffic which IMO is the only traffic available right now. If we were talking about Vegas/Florida trips for when discretionary gets going again, sure WS has been a player for years. We'll see how it goes, but with quarantine and restrictions continuing, this has to be a money losing proposition. Perhaps we can agree to disagree.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:57 pm

yzfElite wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
I acknowledge that Air Canada controls 46%of the domestic market share and Westjet controls 34 percent share of the domestic market. That data right there proves it is not just leisure travel driving that percentile. If that were so then their market share in the domestic market would by now would have been much smaller and gobbled up by other carriers. I do not agree that tourists and VFR traffic fuel the majority of bookings .

You discount the fact that Westjet codeshares with Delta on many trans border routes. Key new market Atlanta as a key point for connections on to Deltas vast usa network. Wj analysts have all the numbers and data to warrant them restarting those said routes. I am not an arm chair ceo.


I agree with you, domestically WS have a lot of the share of all types of traffic. My original point is the one you're also making for me above...WS is still making its way into being a player in the US with the new Delta arrangement and trying to open routes. This is costly and takes time, which my point being I'm surprised they so quickly are going back when they don't have an established set of routes to support business traffic which IMO is the only traffic available right now. If we were talking about Vegas/Florida trips for when discretionary gets going again, sure WS has been a player for years. We'll see how it goes, but with quarantine and restrictions continuing, this has to be a money losing proposition. Perhaps we can agree to disagree.


Let us not lessen Westjet's presence in their trans border business segment, Westjet is an established player to the USA, and continues to grow stronger . This is not the early 2000's where they were truly just getting started https://www.anna.aero/2008/11/28/us-car ... 1-airport/ . Albeit smaller than Air Canada but they do have an established US passenger base, especially since the previous work with AA. They carry a a good portion of traffic to IAH,ATL,LGA, destinations that are business focused. I would even go on to state that LAX is a strong business corridor for Hollywood workers travelling to and from hollywood north, which Westjet serves quite well out of the west. Yes LAS MCO is seen as a tourist destination, but they are also a major conference hosting destinations. I do believe that there is a strong business traffic flow to Las vegas and Orlando for Orlando, Fla., remains the No. 1 meeting spot in the United States, followed by Las Vegas.

Looking at the traffic , 2018, Westjet traffic numbers of passengers travelling across the border were just right under Air Canada’s . The data I looked at was from the US government's database https://www.bts.dot.gov , showing the movement of passengers emplaned from 2018 as an example.

( in the thousands) :
Air Canada 5,239.1
Westjet 4,949.1

I deduce from that the Westjet is indeed doing well trans border and is only poised for further reach. Yes friend I will agree to disagree :)
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:44 pm

On the topic of Transborder, it looks like WestJet further adjusted it's plans in July. LAS has been reduced from 8x weekly flights from all of their hubs to just 2x weekly only from YYC.
 
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cirrusdragoon
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:50 pm

hollywoodcory wrote:
On the topic of Transborder, it looks like WestJet further adjusted it's plans in July. LAS has been reduced from 8x weekly flights from all of their hubs to just 2x weekly only from YYC.



It is showing for July 5 through August 4 https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/travel-in ... l-schedule

Toronto-Orlando 1x weekly
Toronto-New York (LGA) 6x weekly
Toronto-Las Vegas 2x weekly

Vancouver-Los Angeles 4x weekly
Vancouver-Las Vegas 2x weekly

Calgary-Atlanta 1x daily
Calgary-Los Angeles 4x weekly
Calgary-Las Vegas 4x weekly
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:57 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
hollywoodcory wrote:
On the topic of Transborder, it looks like WestJet further adjusted it's plans in July. LAS has been reduced from 8x weekly flights from all of their hubs to just 2x weekly only from YYC.



It is showing for July 5 through August 4 https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/travel-in ... l-schedule

Toronto-Orlando 1x weekly
Toronto-New York (LGA) 6x weekly
Toronto-Las Vegas 2x weekly

Vancouver-Los Angeles 4x weekly
Vancouver-Las Vegas 2x weekly

Calgary-Atlanta 1x daily
Calgary-Los Angeles 4x weekly
Calgary-Las Vegas 4x weekly


I double checked what's open for reservation and only YYC-LAS is available after July 5 2x weekly. (On Sunday & Thursdays)
Everything else is still as you have noted above. (YYZ-CUN is still offered from July 11 once weekly too).
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:39 pm

Also 787 #6 (C-GMKS) was delivered today.

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