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klm617
Posts: 4676
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:58 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
HP69 wrote:

Good idea, except ATL is a much better and larger hub.


The timing of ATL-YYC is a bit awkward though-800p arrival at YYC would tend to limit onward connections a bit, of the 5 regional connections I tried, it only hit 3 (YMM, YYJ, and YLW; it missed YXS and YZF). I understand why they do it; it's good aircraft utilization for WS at the expense of some connectivity to some very small spokes. Connectivity via MSP covers a lot of the rest anyways.

It'd be nice to see a YYC-DTW-YYC rotation that complimented this, say, a ~830A DTW-YYC that arrived around noon then turned around and flew back to DTW in time to hit the last evening bank. For reasons of aircraft utilization, it'd probably have to be a DL aircraft like an A319.


Hasn’t the YYC-DTW horse been discussed to death? They already fly seasonally to YQG to capture Metro Detroit-Windsor O&D traffic. There’s very little YYC-transborder O&D that DTW provides that doesn’t already overlap with MSP.


Why does everyone have an issue when it comes to DTW. The logic for JVs is to provide more options for travelers just like KE/DL and others. According to what you say then why should DL operate MSP-YUL when you can flow those connections over DTW and MSP doesn't give you any more coverage just as in your example of DTW-YYC giving those passengers anymore coverage. Hasn't BOS-YYC been discussed to death which isn't advantages to anyone.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Dominion301
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:24 pm

klm617 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:

The timing of ATL-YYC is a bit awkward though-800p arrival at YYC would tend to limit onward connections a bit, of the 5 regional connections I tried, it only hit 3 (YMM, YYJ, and YLW; it missed YXS and YZF). I understand why they do it; it's good aircraft utilization for WS at the expense of some connectivity to some very small spokes. Connectivity via MSP covers a lot of the rest anyways.

It'd be nice to see a YYC-DTW-YYC rotation that complimented this, say, a ~830A DTW-YYC that arrived around noon then turned around and flew back to DTW in time to hit the last evening bank. For reasons of aircraft utilization, it'd probably have to be a DL aircraft like an A319.


Hasn’t the YYC-DTW horse been discussed to death? They already fly seasonally to YQG to capture Metro Detroit-Windsor O&D traffic. There’s very little YYC-transborder O&D that DTW provides that doesn’t already overlap with MSP.


Why does everyone have an issue when it comes to DTW. The logic for JVs is to provide more options for travelers just like KE/DL and others. According to what you say then why should DL operate MSP-YUL when you can flow those connections over DTW and MSP doesn't give you any more coverage just as in your example of DTW-YYC giving those passengers anymore coverage. Hasn't BOS-YYC been discussed to death which isn't advantages to anyone.


Simple. 1) YUL-MSP has 3x the O&D traffic of YYC-DTW; and 2) There are more destinations that are only accessible out of MSP for YUL (like ANC, BIL, BOI, etc.) than out of DTW for YYC, and the ones that do (like ELM, ITH, AVP, etc.) would have virtually zero O&D from YYC.
 
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767333ER
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:17 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
New route is YYC-FCO, it's showing bookable on the website.


What a weird schedule. Ops on days 456.

For a city of around 1.5 million, the breadth of international (especially transoceanic) destinations is unmatched anywhere else. How much more can YYC realistically sustain?

Fair point and I generally agree, but it takes living here to know how badly you want out of here at least for some period of time more so than other cities of similar size. As I saw someone once say that Calgary is a place you live and work, but you go elsewhere to play because here’s nothing to do here, and I couldn’t agree more. On top of that the spell of winter we get in almost all months of the year!
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180
 
Speedalive
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:42 pm

Here's the official news release from Westjet. Really exciting!!
http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2019-10-30-WestJet-answering-Italian-holiday-dreams-with-non-stop-Dreamliner-service-between-Rome-and-Calgary

767333ER wrote:
As I saw someone once say that Calgary is a place you live and work, but you go elsewhere to play because here’s nothing to do here, and I couldn’t agree more. On top of that the spell of winter we get in almost all months of the year!

Pretty much on point. Calgary is a city where people work hard Monday to Friday and then escape to Banff for the weekend (or go to Vegas, Europe, etc...). This is why places like Edmonton have a better nightlife. They're all kind of stuck there so they make do with what they have.

That said, these routes are probably made up of mostly connections. Ed Sims said
“We’ve seen significant connecting traffic from major cities in the U.S. now using Calgary as their preferred transit hub,” he said. “We’ve seen very significant growth from Seattle, from San Francisco, from all points in the Pacific Northwest. I truly believe the 787 has put the ‘international’ into Calgary International Airport.”
(https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/westjet-to-launch-rome-italy-flights-from-calgary)

I'm really curious what WS is planning on doing with all of these 787's for next winter. Aside from YVR/YYC/YYZ-LGW and YYC-YYZ, all the routes are seasonal. This winter YYC-OGG is being put on the 87 2x weekly, but that still leaves a few frames with nowhere to fly. More Hawaii/Carribbean or perhaps they'll launch a year round European route from YYZ or YVR? Could a year round Asian route be in the plans?
 
Whiteguy
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:57 pm

Speedalive wrote:
Here's the official news release from Westjet. Really exciting!!
http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2019-10-30-WestJet-answering-Italian-holiday-dreams-with-non-stop-Dreamliner-service-between-Rome-and-Calgary

767333ER wrote:
As I saw someone once say that Calgary is a place you live and work, but you go elsewhere to play because here’s nothing to do here, and I couldn’t agree more. On top of that the spell of winter we get in almost all months of the year!

Pretty much on point. Calgary is a city where people work hard Monday to Friday and then escape to Banff for the weekend (or go to Vegas, Europe, etc...). This is why places like Edmonton have a better nightlife. They're all kind of stuck there so they make do with what they have.

That said, these routes are probably made up of mostly connections. Ed Sims said
“We’ve seen significant connecting traffic from major cities in the U.S. now using Calgary as their preferred transit hub,” he said. “We’ve seen very significant growth from Seattle, from San Francisco, from all points in the Pacific Northwest. I truly believe the 787 has put the ‘international’ into Calgary International Airport.”
(https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/westjet-to-launch-rome-italy-flights-from-calgary)

I'm really curious what WS is planning on doing with all of these 787's for next winter. Aside from YVR/YYC/YYZ-LGW and YYC-YYZ, all the routes are seasonal. This winter YYC-OGG is being put on the 87 2x weekly, but that still leaves a few frames with nowhere to fly. More Hawaii/Carribbean or perhaps they'll launch a year round European route from YYZ or YVR? Could a year round Asian route be in the plans?


OGG increases to 5x a week with the B787 mid March till end of April. Plus YYC-LGW and YYZ-LGW year round. CDG starts in March next year, 3x a week and bumping up to 6x. The next 3 airframes arrive in Feb, Mar and May.
 
Speedalive
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:27 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
OGG increases to 5x a week with the B787 mid March till end of April. Plus YYC-LGW and YYZ-LGW year round. CDG starts in March next year, 3x a week and bumping up to 6x. The next 3 airframes arrive in Feb, Mar and May.

Yes, but what about next winter when YYC-CDG/DUB/FCO finish up for the year? What are the newly added 787's that aren't accounted for with the daily LGW routes and YYC-OGG going to do? Will they just run them on transons, launch a new route, or just sit at idle on the apron until the seasonal routes pick up again in Spring 2021?
 
Whiteguy
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:43 pm

Speedalive wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
OGG increases to 5x a week with the B787 mid March till end of April. Plus YYC-LGW and YYZ-LGW year round. CDG starts in March next year, 3x a week and bumping up to 6x. The next 3 airframes arrive in Feb, Mar and May.

Yes, but what about next winter when YYC-CDG/DUB/FCO finish up for the year? What are the newly added 787's that aren't accounted for with the daily LGW routes and YYC-OGG going to do? Will they just run them on transons, launch a new route, or just sit at idle on the apron until the seasonal routes pick up again in Spring 2021?


Maybe CDG will continue year round, seems to be doing well. Hard to say. Won’t know until next summer when winter sked gets announced. I’m pretty sure there’s a plan though....
 
klm617
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:46 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

Hasn’t the YYC-DTW horse been discussed to death? They already fly seasonally to YQG to capture Metro Detroit-Windsor O&D traffic. There’s very little YYC-transborder O&D that DTW provides that doesn’t already overlap with MSP.


Why does everyone have an issue when it comes to DTW. The logic for JVs is to provide more options for travelers just like KE/DL and others. According to what you say then why should DL operate MSP-YUL when you can flow those connections over DTW and MSP doesn't give you any more coverage just as in your example of DTW-YYC giving those passengers anymore coverage. Hasn't BOS-YYC been discussed to death which isn't advantages to anyone.


Simple. 1) YUL-MSP has 3x the O&D traffic of YYC-DTW; and 2) There are more destinations that are only accessible out of MSP for YUL (like ANC, BIL, BOI, etc.) than out of DTW for YYC, and the ones that do (like ELM, ITH, AVP, etc.) would have virtually zero O&D from YYC.


That's because there is a nonstop flight between the two add DTW-YYC and you'll see those numbers rise as well. There are many places in the Carolina's that are not linked to MSP. Look at the MSP O/D before ICN-MSP was added it was below 30 but yet it warranted a nonstop flight. Please stop the negative Detroit chatter
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
saloman
Posts: 110
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:57 pm

767333ER wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
New route is YYC-FCO, it's showing bookable on the website.


What a weird schedule. Ops on days 456.

For a city of around 1.5 million, the breadth of international (especially transoceanic) destinations is unmatched anywhere else. How much more can YYC realistically sustain?

Fair point and I generally agree, but it takes living here to know how badly you want out of here at least for some period of time more so than other cities of similar size. As I saw someone once say that Calgary is a place you live and work, but you go elsewhere to play because here’s nothing to do here, and I couldn’t agree more. On top of that the spell of winter we get in almost all months of the year!


What hogwash. Calgary is literally on the doorstep of one of the finest mountain parks on the planet that attracts visitors year round from all over the world, and isn't even close to the coldest place in Canada. The city itself is fine but certainly not an exciting travel destination, but what drives the travel patterns is a combination of 1) a high concentration of corporate HQs, and b) a high level of disposable income.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:12 pm

Acey wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
The timing of ATL-YYC is a bit awkward though-800p arrival at YYC would tend to limit onward connections a bit, of the 5 regional connections I tried, it only hit 3 (YMM, YYJ, and YLW; it missed YXS and YZF).


It's timed to connect to the 16 departures of the 23:00 bank, just like everything else that arrives between 19 and 22. I'm not sure how it could possibly be timed better, in fact.


I was implying that an ATL-YYC that hit the 1500-1600 bank on the Calgary end (which seems to be a bit broader at first glance) and then turned around to hit the last evening banks in Atlanta would be better. That would require either a) DL to fly the route or a b) suboptimal WS RON that sat from around 2000-0900; terrible aircraft utilization.

As for DTW-YYC, while the O&D from Detroit probably isn't great, I'm guessing that MSP O&D isn't all that great a shakes either, MSP's advantage (at least in the old NW system days) was that it was a shorter stage length and a better connection from IAH and DFW, while still having great connectivity to the key East Coast markets and much later on the Baaken markets in the Dakotas. A nonstop DTW-YYC with a A220 or A319 might: a) stimulate some traffic to Banff that otherwise goes to DEN/ASE/SLC, b) provide some useful oil and gas connections to Marcellus Shale destinations in PA/OH/WV like AVP, and c) move some DTW-Western Canada traffic that is currently a double connect like DTW-MSP-YYC-YYJ. All of those factors are probably rather small, and probably don't add up to quite enough to warrant a daily nonstop yet, though maybe we could see a testing of the market aimed at ski weekends. It probably still ranks below a year round DTW-YVR route for local Detroit traffic or SLC-YEG as another transborder connection opportunity.
 
Dominion301
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:23 pm

klm617 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Why does everyone have an issue when it comes to DTW. The logic for JVs is to provide more options for travelers just like KE/DL and others. According to what you say then why should DL operate MSP-YUL when you can flow those connections over DTW and MSP doesn't give you any more coverage just as in your example of DTW-YYC giving those passengers anymore coverage. Hasn't BOS-YYC been discussed to death which isn't advantages to anyone.


Simple. 1) YUL-MSP has 3x the O&D traffic of YYC-DTW; and 2) There are more destinations that are only accessible out of MSP for YUL (like ANC, BIL, BOI, etc.) than out of DTW for YYC, and the ones that do (like ELM, ITH, AVP, etc.) would have virtually zero O&D from YYC.


That's because there is a nonstop flight between the two add DTW-YYC and you'll see those numbers rise as well. There are many places in the Carolina's that are not linked to MSP. Look at the MSP O/D before ICN-MSP was added it was below 30 but yet it warranted a nonstop flight. Please stop the negative Detroit chatter


But why do you always keep ignoring WS’ existing flight to Windsor? Unless the tunnel is congested, it’s quicker to land at YQG and drive the 20 minutes to downtown Detroit. Even the auto plants are mostly just as close from YQG.

If YYC-Metro Detroit O&D were so strong, WS would already be flying YYC-YQG year-round. Not to mention avoiding all the ridiculous transborder airfare fees Windsor affords.
 
klm617
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:26 am

Dominion301 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

Simple. 1) YUL-MSP has 3x the O&D traffic of YYC-DTW; and 2) There are more destinations that are only accessible out of MSP for YUL (like ANC, BIL, BOI, etc.) than out of DTW for YYC, and the ones that do (like ELM, ITH, AVP, etc.) would have virtually zero O&D from YYC.


That's because there is a nonstop flight between the two add DTW-YYC and you'll see those numbers rise as well. There are many places in the Carolina's that are not linked to MSP. Look at the MSP O/D before ICN-MSP was added it was below 30 but yet it warranted a nonstop flight. Please stop the negative Detroit chatter


But why do you always keep ignoring WS’ existing flight to Windsor? Unless the tunnel is congested, it’s quicker to land at YQG and drive the 20 minutes to downtown Detroit. Even the auto plants are mostly just as close from YQG.

If YYC-Metro Detroit O&D were so strong, WS would already be flying YYC-YQG year-round. Not to mention avoiding all the ridiculous transborder airfare fees Windsor affords.


Yes but Detroit is a major hub for it's soon to be JV partner Delta. YQG has no bearing on a flight from DTW-YYC. People from Windsor are not going to drive to Detroit to catch a flight out of DTW to YYC. If anything Detroiters who use the WS flight out of YQG to get to Western Canada will now have a flight at their home airport. DTW and YQG are two very different markets. If your argument was valid then DTW-YYC would be successful with all the Delta feed if it can maintain seasonal out of YQG with no feed at all.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Dominion301
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:33 am

klm617 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
klm617 wrote:

That's because there is a nonstop flight between the two add DTW-YYC and you'll see those numbers rise as well. There are many places in the Carolina's that are not linked to MSP. Look at the MSP O/D before ICN-MSP was added it was below 30 but yet it warranted a nonstop flight. Please stop the negative Detroit chatter


But why do you always keep ignoring WS’ existing flight to Windsor? Unless the tunnel is congested, it’s quicker to land at YQG and drive the 20 minutes to downtown Detroit. Even the auto plants are mostly just as close from YQG.

If YYC-Metro Detroit O&D were so strong, WS would already be flying YYC-YQG year-round. Not to mention avoiding all the ridiculous transborder airfare fees Windsor affords.


Yes but Detroit is a major hub for it's soon to be JV partner Delta. YQG has no bearing on a flight from DTW-YYC. People from Windsor are not going to drive to Detroit to catch a flight out of DTW to YYC. If anything Detroiters who use the WS flight out of YQG to get to Western Canada will now have a flight at their home airport. DTW and YQG are two very different markets. If your argument was valid then DTW-YYC would be successful with all the Delta feed if it can maintain seasonal out of YQG with no feed at all.


You’re right people in Windsor wouldn’t cross the border to catch a flight to a domestic destination, but in reverse they will as you have to cross the border either way, rendering the argument for DTW-YYC even lower. Something like 1/4 of YQG’s passengers cross the border. I should know as whenever I visit my American relatives, most of whom live around Detroit, 1/2 the time I use YQG. Just because WS and DL are future JV partners doesn’t necessarily mean there will ever be demand for a nonstop between every JV city pair.
 
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Vio
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:10 am

I'm honestly surprised that Westjet doesn't have a few daily flights from YQG to YYZ on their Q400s. I know Porter is also there, but they serve a different market: business travel to YTZ and connections to YUL and YOW, etc. One would think they (WS) can connect pax in YYZ. Is Encore short on Qs?

Air Canada has increased frequency to YYZ and now flying YQG to YUL direct.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
Dominion301
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:50 pm

Vio wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that Westjet doesn't have a few daily flights from YQG to YYZ on their Q400s. I know Porter is also there, but they serve a different market: business travel to YTZ and connections to YUL and YOW, etc. One would think they (WS) can connect pax in YYZ. Is Encore short on Qs?

Air Canada has increased frequency to YYZ and now flying YQG to YUL direct.


It is a head scratcher as to why WS doesn't fly YQG-YYZ 2 or 3x daily. With all the holes in WS' regional network, it's quite evident they either need more Q400s or a tier III eastern partner.
 
jimbo737
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:59 pm

Agreed.

WS should follow the jetsgo strategy of rapid expansion to every destination with high frequency as quickly as possible and grow into profitability.

It’s a solid strategy that never fails.
 
Speedalive
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:22 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Vio wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that Westjet doesn't have a few daily flights from YQG to YYZ on their Q400s. I know Porter is also there, but they serve a different market: business travel to YTZ and connections to YUL and YOW, etc. One would think they (WS) can connect pax in YYZ. Is Encore short on Qs?

Air Canada has increased frequency to YYZ and now flying YQG to YUL direct.


It is a head scratcher as to why WS doesn't fly YQG-YYZ 2 or 3x daily. With all the holes in WS' regional network, it's quite evident they either need more Q400s or a tier III eastern partner.

The unsubstantiated rumour on the street is that Air Georgian will become the CPA carrier for Westjet in the east (or it will be merged with Encore). Encore has been long rumoured to be looking to add jets so this would get them some and it would allow them to quickly increase their presence out of YYZ. Only issue I could see is that those RJ’s are showing their age, and Air Georgian’s contract with AC ended for a reason... maybe they’d ditch them ASAP and get their hands on some E175’s to replace them.
 
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767333ER
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:14 am

saloman wrote:
767333ER wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

What a weird schedule. Ops on days 456.

For a city of around 1.5 million, the breadth of international (especially transoceanic) destinations is unmatched anywhere else. How much more can YYC realistically sustain?

Fair point and I generally agree, but it takes living here to know how badly you want out of here at least for some period of time more so than other cities of similar size. As I saw someone once say that Calgary is a place you live and work, but you go elsewhere to play because here’s nothing to do here, and I couldn’t agree more. On top of that the spell of winter we get in almost all months of the year!


What hogwash. Calgary is literally on the doorstep of one of the finest mountain parks on the planet that attracts visitors year round from all over the world, and isn't even close to the coldest place in Canada. The city itself is fine but certainly not an exciting travel destination, but what drives the travel patterns is a combination of 1) a high concentration of corporate HQs, and b) a high level of disposable income.

I don’t know but I’ve lived here all my life and I pretty much can’t stand it. What’s just west of here is beautiful, but that’s 1 and 1/2 hours west of here and it does generate tourism, but not like the tourism of other places in Canada and the US, if it did our economy wouldn’t be faltering so bad. We do have corporate HQs and we did have lots of money, but in the past few years due to governments of the past not bothering to diversify and with one now that wants us all to be plumbers our economy is supposedly bad and yet the airport is busier than ever because most average middle class people are going on trips at least once a year to escape bad weather.

And don’t get me started on meteorology because I guarantee I obsess over the weather here more than just about anyone. Winter doesn’t have to be freezing cold, but remember this is the place that will have a blizzard in early September and for sure in the past few years by beginning of October.

The stereotypical culture here you do you work, you drive your pickup truck to the airport, go on a trip to Mexico or Arizona for a week, come home, and then do it all over again.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180
 
WS7M8
Topic Author
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:50 am

Nice to see another addition to the WestJet widebody route network.

Although I am excited to see YYC getting a new European city, I was expecting a little more. I do get that WestJet is very methodical the way they build their network, doing so with adequate supporting data that says they'll be successful. And they may well be on to something, tapping into their Canada West network plus the Western USA to connect passengers onwards to Europe. I just think they could be moving a bit more aggressively to be positioned in the marketplace as the Air Transat - Air Canada acquisition is going to leave a void that they'll be able to partially step into.

With the YYC FCO addition, I believe pretty much all their B787 capacity is spoken for. Here's an updated version of something I posted earlier in this thread.

WestJet widebody utilization summer 2020

B787 (*fleet will be at 6)

1. YYC-LGW (daily)
2. YYZ-LGW (daily)
3. YVR-LGW (daily)

4. YYC - DUB (3x weekly) & FCO (3 x weekly) = 6 flights
5. YYC-YYZ-YYC - there is a daily YYC-YYZ-YYC flight noted in an October press release.....my guess is that this aircraft is the designated spare and floating between YYC & YYZ on a scheduled flight that allows it to be available in case it is needed for maintenance.
6. YYC-CDG. The schedule goes from 4x weekly in March to 6x weekly in June.

I don't think there is much more they could squeeze out of that from June through October 2020.....seemingly it allows for daily LGW service from their 3 hubs (YYC, YYZ, YVR), plus CDG, DUB & FCO in addition to limited YYC YYZ YYC rotations at key times of day.

The million dollar question is what happens with the WestJet B767 fleet for the summer 2020. I do know that this fleet is going away, within about a year. Based on a quick search of their website, it is still showing B767 service YYZ BCN 3x weekly until mid-September 2020. This year, the BCN flight went until late October. They may simply not have updated their schedule to show BCN running until October 2020, or they may be ending things earlier next year.

In a perfect world, WestJet's 4 B767s could do 4 nightly trips to Europe, with daytime returns. However the have had reliability issues, so if I am WestJet, I am keeping one as a spare, and running 3 Europe flights per night, summer 2020. I would consolidate the B767s to YYZ for reliability


1. YYZ-BCN- was 3x weekly this past year, WestJet website shows B767 service again next summer thru mid-September.

BCN aside, they still have 3.5 B767s to deploy next summer. If I were WestJet, I would be using them as a trial aircraft to test markets out of YYZ that would likely see B787 service come summer 2021, if B767 loads indicated it was worthwhile. FCO and CDG, each 7x weekly would be how I'd schedule it, with another UK city or two thrown in (MAN?, GLA?).

2. TBD
3. TBD
4. TBD

Interesting times ahead. I am predicting some sort of WestJet B767 summer 2020 schedule announcement at some point this month.
 
WS7M8
Topic Author
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:31 am

Speedalive wrote:

I'm really curious what WS is planning on doing with all of these 787's for next winter. Aside from YVR/YYC/YYZ-LGW and YYC-YYZ, all the routes are seasonal. This winter YYC-OGG is being put on the 87 2x weekly, but that still leaves a few frames with nowhere to fly. More Hawaii/Carribbean or perhaps they'll launch a year round European route from YYZ or YVR? Could a year round Asian route be in the plans?



Me too. Summer has so many options to be successful. Next year's winter schedule will be where it gets interesting....and perhaps exotic. Right now they are utilizing B767s for traditional Caribbean / Mexico flying that would have been done with a 737. Could MBJ, PUJ, or CUN justify a B787. Additionally, Canadian winter = Australia / NZ summertime, so perhaps Sydney, Melbourne or Auckland out of YVR, or perhaps Seoul (KE / SkyTeam connections) or Tokyo.
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:42 pm

Looks like they have shortened BCN's run next summer. It's only showing MAY 8-SEP 13. All other long haul routes are loaded until end of October.

I don't see WS entering Asia or another continent for a few years still. Their focus will be primarily Europe.

As for next winter, I will venture a guess that they'll convert CDG to year-round, and possibly add more 787 flights to Hawaii and maybe CUN? OGG seems to be doing well so far. Perhaps even YYC-LGW could go daily year-round? I think even AC struggles with what to do with their widebodies in the winter months as well.

It's been interesting watching their growth the last few years. Just last year, they had a single long-haul out of YYC 5x weekly, and next summer it will be 4 routes at 19x weekly, almost on par with AC's long haul frequencies out of YYC.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:57 pm

I highly doubt you will see any 787s on Caribbean runs, they are configured for a different mission entirely. There is no demand for lie flat J seats down to Cancun for example. The 787 is designed to take on AC, or at very least occupy a similar market space. That's where they will have to prove themselves. WS does not compete with Transat, at least not like they used to. For this to work, they need to build their long haul network to the point where it is sustainable year round. It doesn't have to be completely year round, the 787 works for premium leisure like Kahului and maybe Honolulu in the winter, but the bulk of its work will have to be Transatlantic or Transpacific.
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:08 pm

2020 would have seemed like a right moment to launch Tokyo service for WS. That's a stable market where a 787 can be parked on a year-round basis. Except, the config isn't optimal with only 16J seats. This will limit their winter deployment opportunities.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:41 pm

WS7M8 wrote:
Nice to see another addition to the WestJet widebody route network.

...

BCN aside, they still have 3.5 B767s to deploy next summer. If I were WestJet, I would be using them as a trial aircraft to test markets out of YYZ that would likely see B787 service come summer 2021, if B767 loads indicated it was worthwhile. FCO and CDG, each 7x weekly would be how I'd schedule it, with another UK city or two thrown in (MAN?, GLA?).

2. TBD
3. TBD
4. TBD

Interesting times ahead. I am predicting some sort of WestJet B767 summer 2020 schedule announcement at some point this month.


If WestJet and DL enter into a JV, the Virgin Connect network at MAN should be a handy target to aim for.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:45 pm

When will the WS and DL JV finally get approved? It's been taking too long than usual.
 
WS7M8
Topic Author
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:29 am

DobboDobbo wrote:

If WestJet and DL enter into a JV, the Virgin Connect network at MAN should be a handy target to aim for.


MAN makes too much sense for WestJet Summer 2020 schedule B767 service.

Most of the widebody B787 routes they are adding are strengthening & connecting the dots (LGW service, CDG). Very little new stuff (YYC FCO).

My pet theory is that WS is holding off for a YYZ-centered anouncement re B767 flying S2020.

As I noted earlier, with 4 B767s, in a perfect, maintenance-free world, they are capable of 4 Euro rotations / day, x 7 days per week, thus 28 flights.

WS' B767s have had reliability issues, therefore build a schedule based on 3 daily YYZ - Euro rotations x 7 day per week, thus 21 flights. We already know YYZ BCN is coming back 3x/ week, so there are theoretically 18 B767 rotations to Europe per week available.

CDG should be added, minimum of 5x / week, and daily service would be ideal. They might also consider YUL CDG but keeping the B767s centered around YYZ and a handful of European destinations might be easiest from a logistics and staffing point-of-view.

FCO would also get my vote, 5-7 x / week. Alitalia is already doing the route, but they are weak and their airplanes are dated. WestJet could easily nudge into that route without upsetting the equilibrium (ie Air France / KLM are going to take note of WS on YYZ CDG.....although AF is adding YYZ CDG service for S2020).

MAN, DUB, anywhere in Germany, and possibly LIS would also be winners from Toronto. The market is huge, and WestJet has to move to take their piece of the pie

There really haven't been any announcements re WS B767s / Summer 2020 schedule. Perhaps they are going to be glorified backups to the B787, in case of maintenance, scheduled to be nearby those departures as they bounce between YYC / YYZ / YVR. Who knows what sort of sale arrangement the company is working on, and when they'll be exiting the Teal fleet.

With no doubt, WestJet's international future is the B787, and a good portion of that expansion will be in YYZ. They'll have 6 in service next summer, and 10 in service for summer 2021. They (obviously) need to find places to put them....that being said there is a notable difference between the onboard product on the B787 (very respectable) and the B767 (which is kind of like a glorified B737 even in premium). Perhaps they are holding off as they don't want the YYZ market to confuse their B767 offering with what they will have on the B787.

Interesting times ahead for them.....
 
tkoenig95
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:21 am

After the completion of WS's first summer season at AUS I would say it seems successful on the Texas end! It seems like the twice weekly was just enough service, but it begs the wonder if they will increase service for S20?
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:57 pm

WS7M8 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:

There really haven't been any announcements re WS B767s / Summer 2020 schedule. Perhaps they are going to be glorified backups to the B787, in case of maintenance, scheduled to be nearby those departures as they bounce between YYC / YYZ / YVR. Who knows what sort of sale arrangement the company is working on, and when they'll be exiting the Teal fleet.

With no doubt, WestJet's international future is the B787, and a good portion of that expansion will be in YYZ. They'll have 6 in service next summer, and 10 in service for summer 2021. They (obviously) need to find places to put them....that being said there is a notable difference between the onboard product on the B787 (very respectable) and the B767 (which is kind of like a glorified B737 even in premium). Perhaps they are holding off as they don't want the YYZ market to confuse their B767 offering with what they will have on the B787.

Interesting times ahead for them.....


If you listen at around the 3:55 mark of this interview with Ed Sims: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/delays-in-b ... -1.1345067, he says "Tomorrow, we'll be announcing ONE of our new transatlantic routes..." This was the day before YYC-FCO.

Based on that on quote, I'd expect at least one new 767 route announced soon. YYZ-GLA & MAN seem like the most obvious. I'd imagine 1 763 will be used for a couple of daily transcon rotations and then having 0.75-1.00 763 as a backup would be sensible.

Sucks to be YEG and (especially) YWG though losing the transatlantic WS link to LGW on the 763.
 
PlaneMad134
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:59 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:31 pm

YYZ-EDI is a frontrunner for me as WestJet were in advanced talks over it so I would say EDI has a higher chance than Glasgow IMHO
 
digitalcloud
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:17 pm

PlaneMad134 wrote:
YYZ-EDI is a frontrunner for me


That's great but is it a front runner for WestJet? Besides, the EDI rumours were regarding YHZ not YYZ.
 
User001
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:29 pm

If WestJet were to add a new Toronto-U.K. route, I’d say it’s toss up between GLA and MAN.

GLA due to the existing flight, which IIRC is a one stop final destination Toronto which can be turned into a direct YYZ-GLA flight.

MAN because of the potentials synergy with DL/VS which could have a decent amount of connection opportunities at the MAN end with the creation of a new hub.

Of course, it’s more likely the new YYZ TATL route wouldn’t touch the U.K. at all, with the amount of European opportunities available.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6399
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:17 pm

YYZORD wrote:
When will the WS and DL JV finally get approved? It's been taking too long than usual.


The U.S. Department of Transportation reviews and authorizes international carrier anti-trust immunity. The Department of Justice reviews domestic air carrier mergers (and may sue to stop, should it choose). Neither operates on a deadline: they are done when they say they are done.
 
User avatar
cirrusdragoon
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:13 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
When will the WS and DL JV finally get approved? It's been taking too long than usual.


The U.S. Department of Transportation reviews and authorizes international carrier anti-trust immunity. The Department of Justice reviews domestic air carrier mergers (and may sue to stop, should it choose). Neither operates on a deadline: they are done when they say they are done.



To an extent that phrase “they are done when they say they are done “ is true, but one must also take into context the current events of this year in the usa. From government shutdown this year, which slowed every process and created backlogs , to the fact that governments do run slower than the private sector. Of course there is no timeline, but this year the usa government would be delayed more than usual due irregular operations.


According to ICAO , “ In the United States, the DOT has the sole authority to grant antitrust immunity to airline alliances. Although not explicitly stated, the DOT tends to grant antitrust immunity only for airline alliances containing airlines with American nationality (exception exists such as the grant of antitrust immunity for alliances between Scandinavian Airlines and Icelandair), and considers whether a foreign alliance partner’s government has signed an Open Skies Agreement with the United States as a condition for antitrust immunity” https://www.icao.int/Meetings/atconf6/D ... p85_en.pdf

If you say the DOJ reviews domestic air carrier mergers , then why is WestJet waiting for approvals from the Antitrust Division of the Department of Justice for the acquisition by Canadian controlled Equity firm Onex ?https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/west-jet-shareholders-to-vote-on-onex-acquisition-223705453.html
Surely they handle more than just domestic airline mergers.
Last edited by cirrusdragoon on Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
digitalcloud
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:03 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:17 pm

User001 wrote:
GLA due to the existing flight, which IIRC is a one stop final destination Toronto which can be turned into a direct YYZ-GLA flight.


It was when it started, now just YHZ-GLA-YHZ.
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:58 pm

WS has now removed the MAX until Feb. 4

Starting to think YYC/YEG-HNL won't operate non-stop at all this winter.

See all the changes here:
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-update ... ry-4-2020/
 
berari
Posts: 814
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:31 pm

With WS going to FCO, I am seeing a pattern/opportunity that could see it fit where Air Transat operated best, on its low frequency [and seasonal] services to Europe from the West. I expect AC to scrap most if not all of TS' services to Europe for there's overlap, and that's where WS will see its place.

YYC may seem like an odd place to fly out of to FCO, or other European destinations. But it *could* be used as a connection point to Western cities including those in the US, should WS choose to time them well. When I travel overseas, it's not Vancouverites that I come across, or Edmontonians, it's Calgarians that have the disposable income that travel to far flung places.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:09 pm

hollywoodcory wrote:
WS has now removed the MAX until Feb. 4

Starting to think YYC/YEG-HNL won't operate non-stop at all this winter.

See all the changes here:
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-update ... ry-4-2020/


With the latest MAX update of going into service in Jan, I’m hoping this is the last schedule change!
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:13 pm

berari wrote:
With WS going to FCO, I am seeing a pattern/opportunity that could see it fit where Air Transat operated best, on its low frequency [and seasonal] services to Europe from the West. I expect AC to scrap most if not all of TS' services to Europe for there's overlap, and that's where WS will see its place.

YYC may seem like an odd place to fly out of to FCO, or other European destinations. But it *could* be used as a connection point to Western cities including those in the US, should WS choose to time them well. When I travel overseas, it's not Vancouverites that I come across, or Edmontonians, it's Calgarians that have the disposable income that travel to far flung places.


Not “could”, this is exactly what’s being done on all these Europe routes....

As for TS they have dropped all their Europe flying from YYC and only operate YVR-LGW a few times a week next summer.
 
WesYan
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:05 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:46 pm

Does WestJet have a plan to paint the NGs in the new livery? Livery was announced in May of 2018 and no news of any aircraft besides the max or 787 with it.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:51 pm

WesYan wrote:
Does WestJet have a plan to paint the NGs in the new livery? Livery was announced in May of 2018 and no news of any aircraft besides the max or 787 with it.



Of course they do. With the MAX grounding it has delayed the process of course. Priority right now is getting the business seats installed. Not a lot of down time in the fleet right now.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:01 pm

WesYan wrote:
Does WestJet have a plan to paint the NGs in the new livery? Livery was announced in May of 2018 and no news of any aircraft besides the max or 787 with it.


Yes, but there's no slack in the fleet right now with the MAX grounding to paint aircraft.

hollywoodcory wrote:
WS has now removed the MAX until Feb. 4

Starting to think YYC/YEG-HNL won't operate non-stop at all this winter.

See all the changes here:
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-update ... ry-4-2020/


Wow, WS are hammering YEG with MAX cuts. Losing 29 flights/week or about 4 daily. That's more than the much larger stations of YVR (losing 12x), and YYC (losing only 4x). Only YYZ loses more (32 weekly).
 
berari
Posts: 814
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:01 am

Dominion301 wrote:

Wow, WS are hammering YEG with MAX cuts. Losing 29 flights/week or about 4 daily. That's more than the much larger stations of YVR (losing 12x), and YYC (losing only 4x). Only YYZ loses more (32 weekly).


Aircraft go where the money is. YEG should see higher fares.
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:39 am

Dominion301 wrote:
WesYan wrote:
Does WestJet have a plan to paint the NGs in the new livery? Livery was announced in May of 2018 and no news of any aircraft besides the max or 787 with it.


Yes, but there's no slack in the fleet right now with the MAX grounding to paint aircraft.

hollywoodcory wrote:
WS has now removed the MAX until Feb. 4

Starting to think YYC/YEG-HNL won't operate non-stop at all this winter.

See all the changes here:
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-update ... ry-4-2020/


Wow, WS are hammering YEG with MAX cuts. Losing 29 flights/week or about 4 daily. That's more than the much larger stations of YVR (losing 12x), and YYC (losing only 4x). Only YYZ loses more (32 weekly).


Much easier to route everyone through YYC, on the 787, or to YVR with extra flights added.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:06 pm

berari wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:

Wow, WS are hammering YEG with MAX cuts. Losing 29 flights/week or about 4 daily. That's more than the much larger stations of YVR (losing 12x), and YYC (losing only 4x). Only YYZ loses more (32 weekly).


Aircraft go where the money is. YEG should see higher fares.


In this case, it's easier to reroute pax through the 3 hubs. Since YEG is WS' largest non-hub, it's not surprising they're taking the biggest hit.
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:51 am

WestJet & Virgin Atlantic beginning codeshare from 21NOV19.
https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/gb ... stjet.html

LGW-YYC/YYZ/YVR is already bookable via Virgin's booking system.
 
BML87
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:25 am

hollywoodcory wrote:
WestJet & Virgin Atlantic beginning codeshare from 21NOV19.
https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/gb ... stjet.html

LGW-YYC/YYZ/YVR is already bookable via Virgin's booking system.


Further destinations customers will be able to connect to on the new partnership include Montreal, Quebec, Edmonton and Deer Lake.


Is Deer Lake a popular destination for UK travellers?
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:22 am

Westjet have plans for a new daily service to Manchester (MAN) from Halifax beginning 1st June 2020 with a B737-MAX8. Timings at the MAN end (Local times) are are 0710 dep 0845.

I think they have plans elsewhere (and it is clearly dependant on the outcome of the MAX certification) but I expect to see further WestJet routes to MAN in the coming years.
 
EIEIDW
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:16 pm

Anyone know anything about WestJet holding slots at DUB for a Toronto Pearson service?
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:36 pm

Looks like WestJet attempted to get 14 weekly slots at LHR, but were denied.
https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... -FINAL.pdf
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:11 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
Westjet have plans for a new daily service to Manchester (MAN) from Halifax beginning 1st June 2020 with a B737-MAX8. Timings at the MAN end (Local times) are are 0710 dep 0845.

I think they have plans elsewhere (and it is clearly dependant on the outcome of the MAX certification) but I expect to see further WestJet routes to MAN in the coming years.


Is this a rumour or insider info?
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