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User001
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:42 pm

It's insider info. They applied for the slots after the initial report was published so don't appear. Flight numbers will be WS96/97 daily from June 1st
 
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itripreport
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:53 pm

Does anyone have a list of how many 737s currently have the new seats?
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:09 pm

itripreport wrote:
Does anyone have a list of how many 737s currently have the new seats?



As of now

737-Max 8: (301, 302, 303, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 315)
737-800: (801,802, 803, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 811, 812, 813, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 825, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 835, 836, 837 849, 852, 853)
737-700: 247
737-600: (601)

Total: 48

Remaining 800s: 810, 826, 850, 851 to be completed by Dec 18.

The first re-configured 737-700 (Tail 247) re-entered service Nov 29.
 
hollywoodcory
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:51 pm

EIEIDW wrote:
Anyone know anything about WestJet holding slots at DUB for a Toronto Pearson service?


https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... Report.pdf

WS currently has 8x weekly of unused slots at DUB for S20 based on whats currently scheduled.
I imagine YYZ-DUB will be added on the 767?

They also have 3x weekly of unused slots at LGW.
 
Dominion301
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:48 pm

hollywoodcory wrote:
EIEIDW wrote:
Anyone know anything about WestJet holding slots at DUB for a Toronto Pearson service?


https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... Report.pdf

WS currently has 8x weekly of unused slots at DUB for S20 based on whats currently scheduled.
I imagine YYZ-DUB will be added on the 767?

They also have 3x weekly of unused slots at LGW.


The slot allocation form is showing the addition of YOW-LGW. While they could use the 763 for that, I’d imagine that’s more contingent on the MAX getting back in the air.
 
hollywoodcory
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:22 pm

To fully summarize those slot allocation reports:

DUB - Applied for 16x Weekly and was granted all 16 (8 round trips). Presently the schedule is exactly the same as S19, except for YYC-DUB starting earlier. They've applied to launch YYZ-DUB. Given they haven't allocated much on the 767, could be launched and share an aircraft with BCN.

LGW - Applied for 12x Weekly and was only granted 4 (2 round trips). Add in 1 weekly currently unused from last year that makes a total of 3x weekly unused. They applied to launch YOW-LGW, probably wanting daily MAX flights. With only 3x Weekly available, be curious if they'll launch YOW 3x Weekly or just lease the slots out?

MAN - Doesn't show up on the initial reports, but apparently applied for 14x Weekly (7 round trips) with the intention of launching YHZ-MAN.

If WS does launch MAN, it would be the first time they launched 2 new European destinations in the same year. Probably also depends on when the MAX resumes service too.

Also:
In today's schedule update the MAX has been removed now until early March. Same reductions as January from I can see.
 
Dominion301
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:38 pm

hollywoodcory wrote:
To fully summarize those slot allocation reports:

DUB - Applied for 16x Weekly and was granted all 16 (8 round trips). Presently the schedule is exactly the same as S19, except for YYC-DUB starting earlier. They've applied to launch YYZ-DUB. Given they haven't allocated much on the 767, could be launched and share an aircraft with BCN.

LGW - Applied for 12x Weekly and was only granted 4 (2 round trips). Add in 1 weekly currently unused from last year that makes a total of 3x weekly unused. They applied to launch YOW-LGW, probably wanting daily MAX flights. With only 3x Weekly available, be curious if they'll launch YOW 3x Weekly or just lease the slots out?

MAN - Doesn't show up on the initial reports, but apparently applied for 14x Weekly (7 round trips) with the intention of launching YHZ-MAN.

If WS does launch MAN, it would be the first time they launched 2 new European destinations in the same year. Probably also depends on when the MAX resumes service too.

Also:
In today's schedule update the MAX has been removed now until early March. Same reductions as January from I can see.


Hopefully they do launch YOW-LGW 3x weekly even if the MAX is still grounded by then.
 
WS7M8
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:59 pm

I agree that getting 3x weekly LGW slots is less than ideal......would WS ever consider going double daily certain days of the week from Toronto? Could they rejig their B787 schedule to fit in a second YYZ LGW? I personally believe that multiple daily frequencies YYZ LGW in the summer are on the horizon within a couple years, perhaps this year they could make it happen. After all, AC is doing YYZ LHR 4-5 times / day at the busiest times of year, with widebodies. Even their fellow YYZ Terminal 3 tenant Air Transat is doing YYZ LGW twice per day in the summer. There is a massive amount of traffic moving between Canada and the UK at peak times.....WestJet might as well do what they can to claim it....especially when given a less-than-ideal hand by the UK aviation authorities.
 
Dominion301
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:04 am

WS7M8 wrote:
I agree that getting 3x weekly LGW slots is less than ideal......would WS ever consider going double daily certain days of the week from Toronto? Could they rejig their B787 schedule to fit in a second YYZ LGW? I personally believe that multiple daily frequencies YYZ LGW in the summer are on the horizon within a couple years, perhaps this year they could make it happen. After all, AC is doing YYZ LHR 4-5 times / day at the busiest times of year, with widebodies. Even their fellow YYZ Terminal 3 tenant Air Transat is doing YYZ LGW twice per day in the summer. There is a massive amount of traffic moving between Canada and the UK at peak times.....WestJet might as well do what they can to claim it....especially when given a less-than-ideal hand by the UK aviation authorities.


I would not be surprised if WS were awarded the extra slots contingent on them adding a new destination as opposed to more capacity on an existing route, which YYZ-LGW will already be seeing with the upgauge from the 763 to the 789.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:01 am

cirrusdragoon wrote:
itripreport wrote:
Does anyone have a list of how many 737s currently have the new seats?



As of now

737-Max 8: (301, 302, 303, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 315)
737-800: (801,802, 803, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 811, 812, 813, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 825, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 835, 836, 837 849, 852, 853)
737-700: 247
737-600: (601)

Total: 48

Remaining 800s: 810, 826, 850, 851 to be completed by Dec 18.

The first re-configured 737-700 (Tail 247) re-entered service Nov 29.


The only 800 not done now, and remaining with WS, is tail 851. All others are done, except 846, 847 & 848, they are going to Swoop. Both the 600 and 700 also have a set reduction with the new config. 112 for the 600 and 132 for the 700, from 113 & 134 respectively.
 
jimbo737
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:15 pm

The AC / Transat merger will require AC to accept a number of conditions and undertakings to ensure a sufficient level of domestic competition in the marketplace, not only from gateway cities with n/s tatl service, but as importantly, every other domestic market.

The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K., not to mention the rest of Europe marketplace post merger, and do so at slot controlled airports with slots acquired gratis by virtue of their history of being a coddled gov’t owned airline.

The question AC will have to sort out is whether or not the price the Bureau demands to permit the AC / Transat merger is worth the brain damage, esp given the opportunities such demands will give WJ, both in terms of long haul aspirations and sun flying from central Canada.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:28 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
The AC / Transat merger will require AC to accept a number of conditions and undertakings to ensure a sufficient level of domestic competition in the marketplace, not only from gateway cities with n/s tatl service, but as importantly, every other domestic market.

The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K., not to mention the rest of Europe marketplace post merger, and do so at slot controlled airports with slots acquired gratis by virtue of their history of being a coddled gov’t owned airline.

The question AC will have to sort out is whether or not the price the Bureau demands to permit the AC / Transat merger is worth the brain damage, esp given the opportunities such demands will give WJ, both in terms of long haul aspirations and sun flying from central Canada.


I would suggest that the issue of being a "coddled gov't owned airline" is so far in the past that it is no longer relevant. Who says they ever actually made a profit flying to LHR back in the fifties/sixties anyway? Did TCA ever make a dime? Even if they did make a profit from LHR flying didn't they use it to subsidize routes such as Lethbridge/Yorkton/Medicine Hat and so on?
As well, some of the provisions in the AC privatisation act put burdens on them that WestJet doesn't have (extreme bilingualism etc.).

Time to move on?
 
jimbo737
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:00 pm

AC paid precisely zero for its LHR slots, a legacy of their previous status as a most definitely "coddled" gov't run airline.

AC has a remarkable history of reporting that both everything and/or nothing is profitable. It just depends on the audience, the current economic cycle and how negotiations are going with various unions.

Just as it's amusing to observe their current claims that the Amadeus cutover has gone exceptionally well, even though we're three weeks into the event and they haven't been able to deal with call volumes 24/7 to the point that they can't even queue the calls, and they are responding to email inquiries that it'll take a least 3 weeks for a response from their end, claims to the profitability or not of various aspects of their business should be taken with a healthy grain of salt.

If the quid pro quo of AC's proclaimed status as Canada's sole "Flag Carrier" are additional burdens in keeping with that status, then so be it. They want that status? Then they have to willingly tolerate the cost of doing so, as per the Privatization Act.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-02 ... -Vancouver
 
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longhauler
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:08 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K


"The Bureau" is not happy, is it? That's actually quite funny. In their public statements, it appears their main concern is employment levels in Quebec and possible job loss with the merger and their second concern was maintaining (and hopefully increasing) air service levels. I see no where mentioned their concern for some newly international western Canadian wannabe airline that feels it deserves the most prized slots on the earth simply because they really really really want them.

And why not any of the other capable Canadian carriers? Remember, the last time "the bureau" was concerned about competition, they gave UK rights (before open skies) to Wardair and not Canadian Pacific!

jimbo737 wrote:
AC paid precisely zero for its LHR slots, a legacy of their previous status as a most definitely "coddled" gov't run airline.


That is right, AC has not paid for LHR slots. Right back to 1946 when TCA/AC started flying into Heathrow. You know .... 73 years ago!

Since LHR became a slot controlled airport, AC has done what most airlines have done ... that is apply for slots and wait their turn. At no time did they just "receive them" due to their "coddled" (LOL) status. And at no time did they try to jump the queue pretending to be burdened. Look at Canadian Airlines, they waited 7 1/2 years after the application (by Wardair) before they received (crappy) slots into LHR in 1994. Same thing with Air Transat ... made the application and waited waited waited.

AC has received some terrible LHR slots in the past, that is what happens. If one looked in the past at some of the oddest LHR times it is a result of the process and the waiting game for something better.

I know the latest circle jerk topic over at teal palace in Calgary is they feel they can jump the line and get LHR slots because of a Quebec merger (?), it just ain't gonna happen! I am hoping though, that Westjet has done what every other airline (AC included) has done ... and that is make formal applications ... and enjoy the wait! It's all part of slowly becoming a real airline.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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cirrusdragoon
Posts: 102
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:13 pm

longhauler wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K


"The Bureau" is not happy, is it? That's actually quite funny. In their public statements, it appears their main concern is employment levels in Quebec and possible job loss with the merger and their second concern was maintaining (and hopefully increasing) air service levels. I see no where mentioned their concern for some newly international western Canadian wannabe airline that feels it deserves the most prized slots on the earth simply because they really really really want them.

And why not any of the other capable Canadian carriers? Remember, the last time "the bureau" was concerned about competition, they gave UK rights (before open skies) to Wardair and not Canadian Pacific!

jimbo737 wrote:
AC paid precisely zero for its LHR slots, a legacy of their previous status as a most definitely "coddled" gov't run airline.


That is right, AC has not paid for LHR slots. Right back to 1946 when TCA/AC started flying into Heathrow. You know .... 73 years ago!

Since LHR became a slot controlled airport, AC has done what most airlines have done ... that is apply for slots and wait their turn. At no time did they just "receive them" due to their "coddled" (LOL) status. And at no time did they try to jump the queue pretending to be burdened. Look at Canadian Airlines, they waited 7 1/2 years after the application (by Wardair) before they received (crappy) slots into LHR in 1994. Same thing with Air Transat ... made the application and waited waited waited.

AC has received some terrible LHR slots in the past, that is what happens. If one looked in the past at some of the oddest LHR times it is a result of the process and the waiting game for something better.

I know the latest circle jerk topic over at teal palace in Calgary is they feel they can jump the line and get LHR slots because of a Quebec merger (?), it just ain't gonna happen! I am hoping though, that Westjet has done what every other airline (AC included) has done ... and that is make formal applications ... and enjoy the wait! It's all part of slowly becoming a real airline.


WS did in fact apply for 14 weekly slots at LHR https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploa ... -FINAL.pdf

but sadly were not awarded any. Hopefully plans for a new trans atlantic joint venture with VS / KL/ AF will help them achieve something, perhaps leasing slots from VS .
 
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longhauler
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:22 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
WS did in fact apply for 14 weekly slots at LHR, but sadly were not awarded any.


It is a long process. One that requires patience. The only alternative is what some airlines have done in an effort to jump the queue and that is to purchase or lease slots.

But remember, when assigning slots, the UK is most concerned about the UK. (As well they should be). Namely what is the slot applicant bringing to the table? It would appear jumping onto an already saturated route is not really that attractive.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Dogman
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:03 pm

Can anybody enlighten me why the other two London airports: Luton and Stansted are not considered to be desirable? Is it because of the limited connection options? I flew to/from Gatwick with WestJet this fall, and the airport looked very busy. But from my cursory research the connection options from Gatwick are not that much better than from Luton and Stansted . What makes Gatwick more desirable than the other two?
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:50 pm

It is official. Gerry Schwartz has his approval. I wish Onex and WestJet all the best fortune in their endeavour to expand a great airline.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/o ... 30125.html

The Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) issued today its determination that WestJet and Swoop Inc. would continue to meet the Canadian ownership and control requirements following the proposed acquisition of WestJet Airlines Ltd. by an affiliate of Onex.
 
jimbo737
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:40 pm

longhauler wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K


"The Bureau" is not happy, is it? That's actually quite funny. In their public statements, it appears their main concern is employment levels in Quebec and possible job loss with the merger and their second concern was maintaining (and hopefully increasing) air service levels. I see no where mentioned their concern for some newly international western Canadian wannabe airline that feels it deserves the most prized slots on the earth simply because they really really really want them.

And why not any of the other capable Canadian carriers? Remember, the last time "the bureau" was concerned about competition, they gave UK rights (before open skies) to Wardair and not Canadian Pacific!

jimbo737 wrote:
AC paid precisely zero for its LHR slots, a legacy of their previous status as a most definitely "coddled" gov't run airline.


That is right, AC has not paid for LHR slots. Right back to 1946 when TCA/AC started flying into Heathrow. You know .... 73 years ago!

Since LHR became a slot controlled airport, AC has done what most airlines have done ... that is apply for slots and wait their turn. At no time did they just "receive them" due to their "coddled" (LOL) status. And at no time did they try to jump the queue pretending to be burdened. Look at Canadian Airlines, they waited 7 1/2 years after the application (by Wardair) before they received (crappy) slots into LHR in 1994. Same thing with Air Transat ... made the application and waited waited waited.

AC has received some terrible LHR slots in the past, that is what happens. If one looked in the past at some of the oddest LHR times it is a result of the process and the waiting game for something better.

I know the latest circle jerk topic over at teal palace in Calgary is they feel they can jump the line and get LHR slots because of a Quebec merger (?), it just ain't gonna happen! I am hoping though, that Westjet has done what every other airline (AC included) has done ... and that is make formal applications ... and enjoy the wait! It's all part of slowly becoming a real airline.


The Bureau isn’t taking close to a year to assess this merger for poops and giggles. There are some legitimate concerns about the reduction of non-stop options to all kinds of international destinations from a number of places in Canada that only the most myopic observer could ignore.

You’re making the rather advanced assumption that WS indeed wants LHR slots.

A good receiver knows how to fake inside before making the more desirous strategic move.

Rookie DB’s get suckered in by the inside move every time.

That’s why rookie DB’s don’t moonlight as head coaches.
 
YYCFlier
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:46 pm

RE: YYC-BOS
AC just beat WS to the punch on that one - summer seasonal just launched (was rumoured to be an A223 route but it's A319 for now).

RE: 767s in S2020
There's at least one YYC-YYZ daily on a 767 most days, so they are doing some domestic flying.
 
WS7M8
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:59 pm

Love the sports analogies Jimbo. Every airline in the world is trying to get into LHR, and WS would be no exception. They are just very very late to the party. Remember how the US majors lobbied forever to get in there when it was just UA and AA that had LHR access (Pan Am and TWA beforehand), and they all dropped LGW in a hurry once they got into Heathrow. Even Rouge tried matching WS the first year they offered LGW service from both YYZ and YVR, but found it not worthwhile. If the two airports were equal, WS could connect & receive passengers on VS through LHR, whereas LGW only leads you to the UK.

As much as I am a proud Western Canadian and a huge fan of WestJet, they aren't getting into LHR anytime soon. The list for slots there is a mile long and is worldwide. There is nothing that WS would be able to offer that isn't already available via AC and BA, and the governing authorities are well aware of this. And even if they do get in, it is going to create an interesting split operation for London service, as no way they'll ever get the amount of LHR rights they'd like. WestJet's best hope is the Virgin Atlantic partnership, as hopefully they can show some benefit on the UK side of things. I actually think that will do quite well for them. I've always been puzzled why Virgin hasn't been able to make markets like YYZ or YVR work consistently out of LHR, but now with that codeshare they'll essentially be in those markets plus many more Canadian destinations. Somebody mentioned leasing slots from VS -that may be a possibility as well.
 
alexdelzotto1
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:02 am

jimbo737 wrote:
AC paid precisely zero for its LHR slots, a legacy of their previous status as a most definitely "coddled" gov't run airline.

AC has a remarkable history of reporting that both everything and/or nothing is profitable. It just depends on the audience, the current economic cycle and how negotiations are going with various unions.

Just as it's amusing to observe their current claims that the Amadeus cutover has gone exceptionally well, even though we're three weeks into the event and they haven't been able to deal with call volumes 24/7 to the point that they can't even queue the calls, and they are responding to email inquiries that it'll take a least 3 weeks for a response from their end, claims to the profitability or not of various aspects of their business should be taken with a healthy grain of salt.

If the quid pro quo of AC's proclaimed status as Canada's sole "Flag Carrier" are additional burdens in keeping with that status, then so be it. They want that status? Then they have to willingly tolerate the cost of doing so, as per the Privatization Act.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-02 ... -Vancouver


Well I see AC more of a flag carrier then WJ, sorry but I find it pathetic that they can't make any kind of service work from Canada's second largest city is beyond me.

Perhaps when the merger of AC/TS goes ahead they can give it another try.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:14 am

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
AC paid precisely zero for its LHR slots, a legacy of their previous status as a most definitely "coddled" gov't run airline.

AC has a remarkable history of reporting that both everything and/or nothing is profitable. It just depends on the audience, the current economic cycle and how negotiations are going with various unions.

Just as it's amusing to observe their current claims that the Amadeus cutover has gone exceptionally well, even though we're three weeks into the event and they haven't been able to deal with call volumes 24/7 to the point that they can't even queue the calls, and they are responding to email inquiries that it'll take a least 3 weeks for a response from their end, claims to the profitability or not of various aspects of their business should be taken with a healthy grain of salt.

If the quid pro quo of AC's proclaimed status as Canada's sole "Flag Carrier" are additional burdens in keeping with that status, then so be it. They want that status? Then they have to willingly tolerate the cost of doing so, as per the Privatization Act.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017-02 ... -Vancouver


Well I see AC more of a flag carrier then WJ, sorry but I find it pathetic that they can't make any kind of service work from Canada's second largest city is beyond me.

Perhaps when the merger of AC/TS goes ahead they can give it another try.


They have every intention of returning to that market, but it appears they are strengthening their main hub first. All in good time.
 
hollywoodcory
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:45 am

YYCFlier wrote:
RE: YYC-BOS
AC just beat WS to the punch on that one - summer seasonal just launched (was rumoured to be an A223 route but it's A319 for now).

RE: 767s in S2020
There's at least one YYC-YYZ daily on a 767 most days, so they are doing some domestic flying.


I feel like WS will counter by launching their own YYC-BOS service. They seem pretty protective of their home base. Interesting times are ahead.
 
WS7M8
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:05 am

hollywoodcory wrote:
YYCFlier wrote:
RE: YYC-BOS
AC just beat WS to the punch on that one - summer seasonal just launched (was rumoured to be an A223 route but it's A319 for now).

RE: 767s in S2020
There's at least one YYC-YYZ daily on a 767 most days, so they are doing some domestic flying.


I feel like WS will counter by launching their own YYC-BOS service. They seem pretty protective of their home base. Interesting times are ahead.


+1.

They have been aggressively expanding everything from YYC, from their widebody operation to transborder 737 ops, to their regional feed at the Link and Encore level. Only within the last year with the B787s factored into the schedule has the amount of daily seats they offer eclipsed AC. I suspect their long-term strategy is to offer everything Air Canada does in Calgary, except with more frequency and better connectivity. The YYC BOS announcement could come as soon as this week as they defend their turf, similar to a couple years ago when New Leaf announced AZA, then WS matched it within a few days.
 
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longhauler
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:16 am

hollywoodcory wrote:
I feel like WS will counter by launching their own YYC-BOS service. They seem pretty protective of their home base. Interesting times are ahead.


It’s only been the last few years that WS actually flew more passengers out of YYC than AC!

Besides, AC has been flying to YYC since 1939 and BOS since 1947, they’ll do fine on YYC-BOS regardless of WS’s actions.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Dominion301
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:02 am

longhauler wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K


"The Bureau" is not happy, is it? That's actually quite funny. In their public statements, it appears their main concern is employment levels in Quebec and possible job loss with the merger and their second concern was maintaining (and hopefully increasing) air service levels. I see no where mentioned their concern for some newly international western Canadian wannabe airline that feels it deserves the most prized slots on the earth simply because they really really really want them.

And why not any of the other capable Canadian carriers? Remember, the last time "the bureau" was concerned about competition, they gave UK rights (before open skies) to Wardair and not Canadian Pacific!

jimbo737 wrote:
AC paid precisely zero for its LHR slots, a legacy of their previous status as a most definitely "coddled" gov't run airline.


That is right, AC has not paid for LHR slots. Right back to 1946 when TCA/AC started flying into Heathrow. You know .... 73 years ago!

Since LHR became a slot controlled airport, AC has done what most airlines have done ... that is apply for slots and wait their turn. At no time did they just "receive them" due to their "coddled" (LOL) status. And at no time did they try to jump the queue pretending to be burdened. Look at Canadian Airlines, they waited 7 1/2 years after the application (by Wardair) before they received (crappy) slots into LHR in 1994. Same thing with Air Transat ... made the application and waited waited waited.

AC has received some terrible LHR slots in the past, that is what happens. If one looked in the past at some of the oddest LHR times it is a result of the process and the waiting game for something better.

I know the latest circle jerk topic over at teal palace in Calgary is they feel they can jump the line and get LHR slots because of a Quebec merger (?), it just ain't gonna happen! I am hoping though, that Westjet has done what every other airline (AC included) has done ... and that is make formal applications ... and enjoy the wait! It's all part of slowly becoming a real airline.


If anything the Competition Bureau will force AC to give up a daily TS LGW slot. AC do currently have an unallocated summer 2020 LHR slot that was used for the 2nd YVR last summer.

Also, what’s going on with AC’s currently unused LHR slots for YHZ and YYT? Are AC leasing these out temporarily or is LHR providing AC with a temporary exemption allowing them to not use them while the MAX is grounded?

Here’s one airport I could see AC being forced to give up 3-7x weekly slots to WS: AMS!
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:07 am

In reference to the history of AC that I mentioned a few comments above I can confirm that TCA (AC's predecessor) flew 10 constellation flights per week to LHR in the summer of 1957. I have the schedule (4 originated in YYZ via YUL while another 6 originated in YUL - 1 of which was via Goose Bay and one via Gander en route from YUL).
This means that AC has served LHR for a long time and I would argue that this historically was a "prestige" route that was likely a loss maker and subsidized by the Canadian government, as were most routes flown by government owned flag carriers all over the world at the time.
How is this "coddled"?

Is it fair to torch an airline that acquired rights to a service in a completely different era with completely different economic consequences?

Different time and place. Why so critical?
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6415
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:36 am

Dominion301 wrote:
Also, what’s going on with AC’s currently unused LHR slots for YHZ and YYT? Are AC leasing these out temporarily or is LHR providing AC with a temporary exemption allowing them to not use them while the MAX is grounded?

Here’s one airport I could see AC being forced to give up 3-7x weekly slots to WS: AMS!


The UK government has been very patient with all airlines dealing with Boeing’s latest screw up. Air Canada continuously schedules resumption of LHR operations from the Maritimes and Newfoundland only to have plans change. Hopefully the latest estimate is accurate.

AC only holds one daily slot pair to AMS. Hardly a monopoly.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:40 am

longhauler wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Also, what’s going on with AC’s currently unused LHR slots for YHZ and YYT? Are AC leasing these out temporarily or is LHR providing AC with a temporary exemption allowing them to not use them while the MAX is grounded?

Here’s one airport I could see AC being forced to give up 3-7x weekly slots to WS: AMS!


The UK government has been very patient with all airlines dealing with Boeing’s latest screw up. Air Canada continuously schedules resumption of LHR operations from the Maritimes and Newfoundland only to have plans change. Hopefully the latest estimate is accurate.

AC only holds one daily slot pair to AMS. Hardly a monopoly.


Good to hear about the LHR slots. As for AMS, I was referring more to TS’ AMS slots and maybe having to give some of those up as no other Canadian carrier flies to Amsterdam unlike London.
 
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longhauler
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:51 am

Dominion301 wrote:
Good to hear about the LHR slots. As for AMS, I was referring more to TS’ AMS slots and maybe having to give some of those up as no other Canadian carrier flies to Amsterdam unlike London.


I understand your comments now. I think it really depends on what a merged AC/TS would look like, and nothing yet has been made public.

If the plans are to merge TS into Rouge and making a larger leisure airline complete with overseas properties, it would almost seem to be a different product. Much like when both KLM and Martinair (owned by KLM) flew to Canada at the same time.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
ac7e7
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:58 am

jimbo737 wrote:
The AC / Transat merger will require AC to accept a number of conditions and undertakings to ensure a sufficient level of domestic competition in the marketplace, not only from gateway cities with n/s tatl service, but as importantly, every other domestic market.

The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K., not to mention the rest of Europe marketplace post merger, and do so at slot controlled airports with slots acquired gratis by virtue of their history of being a coddled gov’t owned airline.

The question AC will have to sort out is whether or not the price the Bureau demands to permit the AC / Transat merger is worth the brain damage, esp given the opportunities such demands will give WJ, both in terms of long haul aspirations and sun flying from central Canada.


Give me a break. Where has the bureau publicly stated they are “not happy” with AC’s LHR market share. AC has had these slots for decades before WS was ever conceived. I suspect it is WS (and you) who are not happy with AC’s presence at LHR. Get over it.

WS is good at one thing - hypocrisy. On the one hand it engages in predatory behaviour in the west against Flair. In Central Canada they claim AC has too much market share and are not playing fair. Such BS. Time for WS to put on their big boy pants.

Besides, if WS thinks they can attract business travellers from AC or BA with their sub-par product, sub-par FF program, and their one soon-to-open lounge in Calgary they are living in a dream world. If WS wants to make inroads in Central Canada, they need to offer a FF program that resonates with business travellers. Providing them a few vouchers for lounge access and a smile is not going to cut it.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:59 am

WS will probably announce YYC-BOS soon as they will defend their home hub and same time, they can make the route year round daily as they have connection feed through DL as BOS is DL's new hub. Also the WS/DL JV is another reason towards WS launching YYC-BOS year round.
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6415
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:28 am

YYZORD wrote:
WS will probably announce YYC-BOS soon as they will defend their home hub and same time, they can make the route year round daily as they have connection feed through DL as BOS is DL's new hub. Also the WS/DL JV is another reason towards WS launching YYC-BOS year round.

Delta’s pilots have been making comments lately about these joint ventures. I am sure they are watching these developments very closely. I would guess therefore, it would likely be DL’s metal flying between BOS and YYC.

I am curious if WS has even looked at the DL pilot contract as it would affect who’s code can go where.

I remember the CP/AA JV and codeshares of the late 1990s. When AA stopped flying from YVR to SJC, CP had to give up one YYZ-LGA back to AA’s pilots. It got very cumbersome.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
fraT
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:56 am

longhauler wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
WS will probably announce YYC-BOS soon as they will defend their home hub and same time, they can make the route year round daily as they have connection feed through DL as BOS is DL's new hub. Also the WS/DL JV is another reason towards WS launching YYC-BOS year round.

Delta’s pilots have been making comments lately about these joint ventures. I am sure they are watching these developments very closely. I would guess therefore, it would likely be DL’s metal flying between BOS and YYC.

I am curious if WS has even looked at the DL pilot contract as it would affect who’s code can go where.

I remember the CP/AA JV and codeshares of the late 1990s. When AA stopped flying from YVR to SJC, CP had to give up one YYZ-LGA back to AA’s pilots. It got very cumbersome.


Seems you were right about DL flying that route.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/288052/air-canada-delta-expands-vancouver-new-york-service-in-s20/

Edit: Sorry, mixed up the route. The DL announcement is for JFK-YVR
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:50 am

longhauler wrote:
hollywoodcory wrote:
I feel like WS will counter by launching their own YYC-BOS service. They seem pretty protective of their home base. Interesting times are ahead.


It’s only been the last few years that WS actually flew more passengers out of YYC than AC!

Besides, AC has been flying to YYC since 1939 and BOS since 1947, they’ll do fine on YYC-BOS regardless of WS’s actions.


Never said AC won't be successful on the route, only that WS seems pretty territorial when it comes to YYC. They've launched AZA & even to an extent DEN as a reaction to NewLeaf (now just Flair) & Frontier entering the market.

It's clear the route was probably on WS' radar, but AC managed to pull the trigger quicker. Interested to see WS' reaction.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:40 pm

fraT wrote:
longhauler wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
WS will probably announce YYC-BOS soon as they will defend their home hub and same time, they can make the route year round daily as they have connection feed through DL as BOS is DL's new hub. Also the WS/DL JV is another reason towards WS launching YYC-BOS year round.

Delta’s pilots have been making comments lately about these joint ventures. I am sure they are watching these developments very closely. I would guess therefore, it would likely be DL’s metal flying between BOS and YYC.

I am curious if WS has even looked at the DL pilot contract as it would affect who’s code can go where.

I remember the CP/AA JV and codeshares of the late 1990s. When AA stopped flying from YVR to SJC, CP had to give up one YYZ-LGA back to AA’s pilots. It got very cumbersome.


Seems you were right about DL flying that route.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/288052/air-canada-delta-expands-vancouver-new-york-service-in-s20/

Edit: Sorry, mixed up the route. The DL announcement is for JFK-YVR


I predicted that DL will make their YVR-JFK route year round daily once CX leaves the route. It only made sense as YVR is a WS hub and WS can just codeshare on the existing DL flight instead of adding their own feed.
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:48 pm

The ONEX purchase of WS is complete.
http://westjet.mediaroom.com/news-releases?item=122668
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:58 pm

ac7e7 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
The AC / Transat merger will require AC to accept a number of conditions and undertakings to ensure a sufficient level of domestic competition in the marketplace, not only from gateway cities with n/s tatl service, but as importantly, every other domestic market.

The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K., not to mention the rest of Europe marketplace post merger, and do so at slot controlled airports with slots acquired gratis by virtue of their history of being a coddled gov’t owned airline.

The question AC will have to sort out is whether or not the price the Bureau demands to permit the AC / Transat merger is worth the brain damage, esp given the opportunities such demands will give WJ, both in terms of long haul aspirations and sun flying from central Canada.


Give me a break. Where has the bureau publicly stated they are “not happy” with AC’s LHR market share. AC has had these slots for decades before WS was ever conceived. I suspect it is WS (and you) who are not happy with AC’s presence at LHR. Get over it.

WS is good at one thing - hypocrisy. On the one hand it engages in predatory behaviour in the west against Flair. In Central Canada they claim AC has too much market share and are not playing fair. Such BS. Time for WS to put on their big boy pants.

Besides, if WS thinks they can attract business travellers from AC or BA with their sub-par product, sub-par FF program, and their one soon-to-open lounge in Calgary they are living in a dream world. If WS wants to make inroads in Central Canada, they need to offer a FF program that resonates with business travellers. Providing them a few vouchers for lounge access and a smile is not going to cut it.


Sorry, what sub-par product are we talking about? Their 787s are objectively better than AC's long haul products. They are literally newer versions of the same seats.
 
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cirrusdragoon
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:57 pm

ac7e7 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
Give me a break. Where has the bureau publicly stated they are “not happy” with AC’s LHR market share. AC has had these slots for decades before WS was ever conceived. I suspect it is WS (and you) who are not happy with AC’s presence at LHR. Get over it.

WS is good at one thing - hypocrisy. On the one hand it engages in predatory behaviour in the west against Flair. In Central Canada they claim AC has too much market share and are not playing fair. Such BS. Time for WS to put on their big boy pants.

Besides, if WS thinks they can attract business travellers from AC or BA with their sub-par product, sub-par FF program, and their one soon-to-open lounge in Calgary they are living in a dream world. If WS wants to make inroads in Central Canada, they need to offer a FF program that resonates with business travellers. Providing them a few vouchers for lounge access and a smile is not going to cut it.



In her opinion . let the troll be on her way.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6399
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:04 am

jimbo737 wrote:
The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets...


To how many Canadian cities would you expect BA or VS to operate, really? AC has onward connections to secondary airports and BA/VS have... nothing in Canada. I mean, are they going to complain that AC flies to more cities in Canada than AA does?

I won't guess at what carve-outs may be demanded by competition authorities. The great enthusiasm for reduced competition when this deal was announced I do not understand... unless you're an AC employee or shareholder. The rest of the country is going to be hosed.
 
ac7e7
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:17 am

whywhyzee wrote:
ac7e7 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
The AC / Transat merger will require AC to accept a number of conditions and undertakings to ensure a sufficient level of domestic competition in the marketplace, not only from gateway cities with n/s tatl service, but as importantly, every other domestic market.

The Bureau is not happy that AC already has a defacto Canada to LHR monopoly from everywhere other than 4 domestic markets, and intends to further dominate the Canada to U.K., not to mention the rest of Europe marketplace post merger, and do so at slot controlled airports with slots acquired gratis by virtue of their history of being a coddled gov’t owned airline.

The question AC will have to sort out is whether or not the price the Bureau demands to permit the AC / Transat merger is worth the brain damage, esp given the opportunities such demands will give WJ, both in terms of long haul aspirations and sun flying from central Canada.


Give me a break. Where has the bureau publicly stated they are “not happy” with AC’s LHR market share. AC has had these slots for decades before WS was ever conceived. I suspect it is WS (and you) who are not happy with AC’s presence at LHR. Get over it.

WS is good at one thing - hypocrisy. On the one hand it engages in predatory behaviour in the west against Flair. In Central Canada they claim AC has too much market share and are not playing fair. Such BS. Time for WS to put on their big boy pants.

Besides, if WS thinks they can attract business travellers from AC or BA with their sub-par product, sub-par FF program, and their one soon-to-open lounge in Calgary they are living in a dream world. If WS wants to make inroads in Central Canada, they need to offer a FF program that resonates with business travellers. Providing them a few vouchers for lounge access and a smile is not going to cut it.


Sorry, what sub-par product are we talking about? Their 787s are objectively better than AC's long haul products. They are literally newer versions of the same seats.


In your opinion. Sure, they have done a good job with their new seats, but there is more to attracting business travellers than the seat. Frequency, priority services, lounges, Concierge services, etc. Westjet has a long way to go.
 
ac7e7
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:36 am

cirrusdragoon wrote:
ac7e7 wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:
Give me a break. Where has the bureau publicly stated they are “not happy” with AC’s LHR market share. AC has had these slots for decades before WS was ever conceived. I suspect it is WS (and you) who are not happy with AC’s presence at LHR. Get over it.

WS is good at one thing - hypocrisy. On the one hand it engages in predatory behaviour in the west against Flair. In Central Canada they claim AC has too much market share and are not playing fair. Such BS. Time for WS to put on their big boy pants.

Besides, if WS thinks they can attract business travellers from AC or BA with their sub-par product, sub-par FF program, and their one soon-to-open lounge in Calgary they are living in a dream world. If WS wants to make inroads in Central Canada, they need to offer a FF program that resonates with business travellers. Providing them a few vouchers for lounge access and a smile is not going to cut it.



In her opinion . let the troll be on her way.


I fly every week. I spend over $25K per year on AC alone. I used to be Westjet Gold for many years. I moved my business to AC because their business product is far superior. As a SE100K, I can tell you that WS Gold/Platinum does not compare to the benefits of SE100K. Every airline has its benefits and areas where they need to improve, AC included. If WS wants to play with the big boys, they need to up their game.

I realize WS fanboys are easily triggered when someone actually prefers AC over their favourite airline. However, you should be listening to people like me rather than calling me a troll. Why does WS continuously fail to attract lucrative business travellers in the Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver markets? Why do people like me spend our dollars at AC rather than WS? While WS became complacent and believed they were far superior to AC, AC upped their game significantly. If WS believes adding a few nice seats and one lounge will attract business travellers away from AC, they are living in a dream world.
 
User avatar
cirrusdragoon
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:31 am

ac7e7 wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
ac7e7 wrote:



In her opinion . let the troll be on her way.


I fly every week. I spend over $25K per year on AC alone. I used to be Westjet Gold for many years. I moved my business to AC because their business product is far superior. As a SE100K, I can tell you that WS Gold/Platinum does not compare to the benefits of SE100K. Every airline has its benefits and areas where they need to improve, AC included. If WS wants to play with the big boys, they need to up their game.

I realize WS fanboys are easily triggered when someone actually prefers AC over their favourite airline. However, you should be listening to people like me rather than calling me a troll. Why does WS continuously fail to attract lucrative business travellers in the Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver markets? Why do people like me spend our dollars at AC rather than WS? While WS became complacent and believed they were far superior to AC, AC upped their game significantly. If WS believes adding a few nice seats and one lounge will attract business travellers away from AC, they are living in a dream world.


Rome was not built overnight. Continue flying your preferred airline. All new enterprises take time and mature in their own good time. You are not the end all and be all. Take a seat .
 
ac7e7
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:40 am

cirrusdragoon wrote:
ac7e7 wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:


In her opinion . let the troll be on her way.


I fly every week. I spend over $25K per year on AC alone. I used to be Westjet Gold for many years. I moved my business to AC because their business product is far superior. As a SE100K, I can tell you that WS Gold/Platinum does not compare to the benefits of SE100K. Every airline has its benefits and areas where they need to improve, AC included. If WS wants to play with the big boys, they need to up their game.

I realize WS fanboys are easily triggered when someone actually prefers AC over their favourite airline. However, you should be listening to people like me rather than calling me a troll. Why does WS continuously fail to attract lucrative business travellers in the Toronto/Montreal/Vancouver markets? Why do people like me spend our dollars at AC rather than WS? While WS became complacent and believed they were far superior to AC, AC upped their game significantly. If WS believes adding a few nice seats and one lounge will attract business travellers away from AC, they are living in a dream world.


Rome was not built overnight. Continue flying your preferred airline. All new enterprises take time and mature in their own good time. You are not the end all and be all. Take a seat .


You are right, but investors didn’t share your point of view. Frankly, neither does Onex. Onex didn’t just acquire WE for its current cash flow. They know WS management is missing too many opportunities and not moving aggressive to capture more business travellers. CEO will be out in 12 months.
 
TObound
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:15 am

There's more than one way to skin the metaphorical cat. I just wish WS actually offered something materially different. All I see is the same price for the same seat. Only with no alliance benefits, a crappy FF plan and crap services in Quebec.

If they are going to stay independent, I wish they'd at least go the JetBlue route and offer a properly differentiated product. This whole overpriced Southwest schtick (without a lot of the benefits) kinda sucks.
 
ac7e7
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:33 am

TObound wrote:
There's more than one way to skin the metaphorical cat. I just wish WS actually offered something materially different. All I see is the same price for the same seat. Only with no alliance benefits, a crappy FF plan and crap services in Quebec.

If they are going to stay independent, I wish they'd at least go the JetBlue route and offer a properly differentiated product. This whole overpriced Southwest schtick (without a lot of the benefits) kinda sucks.


Agreed. I just don’t think know what to do. They want AC’s business travellers, but they have a FF program that offers them nothing. Passengers with pets board before zone 1! An Altitude 35K at AC has more benefits than WS Gold. But hey, install a nice business class seat and they will come..... or not.
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:36 am

ac7e7 wrote:
In your opinion. Sure, they have done a good job with their new seats, but there is more to attracting business travellers than the seat. Frequency, priority services, lounges, Concierge services, etc. Westjet has a long way to go.


Would also add US/international destinations to that list too. WS lacks a large number of spokes in its network currently. Sure you can stop at a DL hub, but AC's non-stop network is just far superior at the moment.

I fully anticipate WS dumping the whole low-frills look and catering more to the business passenger going forward. If properly implemented, there's no reason WS can't tie-up even closer with DL/VS/AF/KL and become a more significant competitor to AC in the business space. I could certainly see year-round service to AMS/CDG/MAN from YYZ on 789s coming in the next few years - slot depending of course. Such a plan could very well disrupt a significant amount of marketshare AC has for Canadians travelling to Europe and beyond.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:59 am

Airlinerdude wrote:
ac7e7 wrote:
In your opinion. Sure, they have done a good job with their new seats, but there is more to attracting business travellers than the seat. Frequency, priority services, lounges, Concierge services, etc. Westjet has a long way to go.


Would also add US/international destinations to that list too. WS lacks a large number of spokes in its network currently. Sure you can stop at a DL hub, but AC's non-stop network is just far superior at the moment.

I fully anticipate WS dumping the whole low-frills look and catering more to the business passenger going forward. If properly implemented, there's no reason WS can't tie-up even closer with DL/VS/AF/KL and become a more significant competitor to AC in the business space. I could certainly see year-round service to AMS/CDG/MAN from YYZ on 789s coming in the next few years - slot depending of course. Such a plan could very well disrupt a significant amount of marketshare AC has for Canadians travelling to Europe and beyond.


First they need to tackle the basics and fly non-YYZ transcons year-round at the very least on business days if they want to be seen as a true alternative to AC.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:36 pm

ac7e7 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
ac7e7 wrote:

Give me a break. Where has the bureau publicly stated they are “not happy” with AC’s LHR market share. AC has had these slots for decades before WS was ever conceived. I suspect it is WS (and you) who are not happy with AC’s presence at LHR. Get over it.

WS is good at one thing - hypocrisy. On the one hand it engages in predatory behaviour in the west against Flair. In Central Canada they claim AC has too much market share and are not playing fair. Such BS. Time for WS to put on their big boy pants.

Besides, if WS thinks they can attract business travellers from AC or BA with their sub-par product, sub-par FF program, and their one soon-to-open lounge in Calgary they are living in a dream world. If WS wants to make inroads in Central Canada, they need to offer a FF program that resonates with business travellers. Providing them a few vouchers for lounge access and a smile is not going to cut it.


Sorry, what sub-par product are we talking about? Their 787s are objectively better than AC's long haul products. They are literally newer versions of the same seats.


In your opinion. Sure, they have done a good job with their new seats, but there is more to attracting business travellers than the seat. Frequency, priority services, lounges, Concierge services, etc. Westjet has a long way to go.


I get that, but I was just referring to hard product, you mentionned other things like lounges, so I assumed by product, you meant seats. If that is not the case, I apologize.
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