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alexdelzotto1
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:26 am

LMFNINJA wrote:
WS7M8 wrote:

I live in Toronto and that the last flight I would take to Europe would be a WS narrow body A321XLR. Flights from Toronto to the major cities of Europe is such a large market that many people, myself included, would not take a narrow body plane when AC, Transat and all the European airlines use wide body aircraft. If WS does order the A321XLR, which I doubt since it has always been an all Boeing airline, then I doubt A321 XLR flights would have a high load factor.


See the problem with this comment is that the general public doesn't really care about what type of aircraft is being used at the end of the day if the flight with the A321LR is 1$ cheaper thats the flight they are booking.
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:22 am

Tonight’s schedule update has the MAX removed until early April now. Same cuts as March.
 
WS7M8
Topic Author
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:35 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:48 am

LMFNINJA wrote:
WS7M8 wrote:
Things I'd like to see from WestJet in 2020:
 



3. Airbus 321XLRs. The one aircraft on the market that I believe could be a real game-changer for WestJet is the Airbus 321XLR. In a nutshell, it offers narrowbody CASM but widebody range. Depending on the configuration, it can do 4000-4700 nm with 220-244 seats (I'd gather a hypothetical WS A321XLR would have ~225-230 seats) As WJ is always looking for an advantage over AC, this is the aircraft that can give it to them. And Air Canada is doing all but a handful of European routes with widebodies. A WJ A321XLR could do YYZ to much of Europe, YYZ to much of South America, or YYC / YEG to Hawaii. Imagine a WestJet network with 10-15 nightly A321XLR departures from YYZ each night to Europe, with the B787 fleet focusing on Western Canada to Europe and on the heavier YYZ - European routes. In a way, this would render their B787s more effective, as with their current route structure, WJ barely touches the sweet spot of the B787's best efficiencies. Nothing against YYZ LGW, but the B787 is ideally suited for YVR LGW, or heck YVR LGW / HKG / NRT / SEL / PEK. Hence A321XLRs would free up the B787s for more far-flung destinations, but keep the WJ presence at an efficient cost structure to much of their existing route. Sounds like a winner to me.

I live in Toronto and that the last flight I would take to Europe would be a WS narrow body A321XLR. Flights from Toronto to the major cities of Europe is such a large market that many people, myself included, would not take a narrow body plane when AC, Transat and all the European airlines use wide body aircraft. If WS does order the A321XLR, which I doubt since it has always been an all Boeing airline, then I doubt A321 XLR flights would have a high load factor.


The times they are a changin'. This summer, Air Transat is going to have double dailies YYZ LGW with their A321NEOs. A number of their YUL - Europe routes are going to be done with the NEOs. Most passengers wouldn't have the ability to distinguish an A321 from a hypothetical widebody on a YYZ or YUL - Euro route in the booking process. The biggest determiners would be price and schedule. Alternatively, look how the old Continental expanded their reach with EWR to Europe routes in their B757s about 12-15 years ago, and how several of the US legacy carriers followed in their footsteps. .
 
boeing767300
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:17 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:28 pm

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
LMFNINJA wrote:
WS7M8 wrote:

I live in Toronto and that the last flight I would take to Europe would be a WS narrow body A321XLR. Flights from Toronto to the major cities of Europe is such a large market that many people, myself included, would not take a narrow body plane when AC, Transat and all the European airlines use wide body aircraft. If WS does order the A321XLR, which I doubt since it has always been an all Boeing airline, then I doubt A321 XLR flights would have a high load factor.


See the problem with this comment is that the general public doesn't really care about what type of aircraft is being used at the end of the day if the flight with the A321LR is 1$ cheaper thats the flight they are booking.

Couldn’t agree more if Harry, Molloy and the two kids find the right price they will go. Standing room only they will still go LOL
 
YYCFlier
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:42 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:20 am

WS7M8 wrote:
The times they are a changin'. This summer, Air Transat is going to have double dailies YYZ LGW with their A321NEOs. A number of their YUL - Europe routes are going to be done with the NEOs. Most passengers wouldn't have the ability to distinguish an A321 from a hypothetical widebody on a YYZ or YUL - Euro route in the booking process. The biggest determiners would be price and schedule. Alternatively, look how the old Continental expanded their reach with EWR to Europe routes in their B757s about 12-15 years ago, and how several of the US legacy carriers followed in their footsteps. .


Transat is a leisure airline, and when that's true then yes you are right. But WS is trying to break out of that mode. Business travellers do care about what aircraft they are on because they consider other things besides price, including schedule and comfort.

I just can't see WS wanting to invest in a mixed fleet, and even if they did, they wouldn't want to put them at YYZ when they are trying to attract business traffic. I could maybe see if if they got A231XLRs with JetBlue Mint type configurations. However, I think in the new while, you will see 789s going to Europe from YYZ with 7M8 service from YHZ. If, and this is a big if, we hit July with no end in sight to the grounding, then maybe you will see WS putting in an Airbus order. Of course they wouldn't see the aircraft for another 4-5 years either way.
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:40 pm

WS7M8 wrote:
Things I'd like to see from WestJet in 2020:
 
1. I'd almost write this in bold and caps as I believe it is paramount to their future: Grow the YYZ widebody departures. I do get what they are trying to build in YYC....almost like a poor poor man's version of AC's YYZ Global Hub. But I firmly believe they can be moving elsewhere at the same time. They are taking their time finding the right balance for flights that go 1-2-3 times per week YYC - Europe, when if they'd move the departure to YYZ, they'd have the biggest market in Canada not to mention the benefit of 100+ connecting flights. Here are just a few markets that are proven winners in the Canadian summer that with the right tweaking they could easily do: FCO, CDG, AMS, MAN, DUB.

Thus far their B767s are only committed to 3 weekly summer flights (BCN) for 2020. I am really looking forward to them announcing their summer schedule at some point in the next month. LIkely the Max 8 situation is impacting things and they are keeping the B767s in reserve to cover trunk flying (YYC-YYZ) as this will free up 737s for other things. In a perfect world, even with a small fleet of 4 B767s, that is 3-4 European flights you could run per day. Were it me, I'd build the schedule based on three Euro flights per nights (three aircraft committed) with the fourth as a spare as the WS B767s have had reliability issues. Three flights per night is 21 flights per week. Subtracting the 3 BCN rotations that are already loaded in their schedule, that would leave 18 possible rotations to throw at Europe on a weekly basis. As they have already started taking bookings for FCO from YYC, I'm sure they've developed some data already for it (not to mention years of codesharing with Alitalia). Say 5-6 FCO rotations (Alitalia is a weak company who are having financial issues seemingly every year), 4-6 weekly YYZ CDG rotations and 3 weekly YYZ MAN and YYZ DUB rotations and their schedule starts to fill out the way it should. They could even get exotic and do YUL CDG (aircraft on a W pattern YYZ - CDG - YUL - CDG  - YUL) as YUL CDG is a guaranteed winner in Canada. YYZ MAD, YYZ - Germany, YYZ AMS are all routes that have tremendous demand from Canada and Europe in the summer months.

Regardless of how they do it, the Air Canada - Air Transat merger is giving them a unique opportunity to grow their presence at YYZ and they have got to start claiming their piece of the pie, or someone else will. And I do get their Western Canadian heritage plus trying to squeeze everything they can out of YYC, including that new hangar and departure fee breaks. And I know that they have historically moved in a conservative way as every route has to carry its weight. But opening routes from Eastern Canada to FCO, CDG, or other popular European destinations is going to take place in the WJ universe at some point in the short term future.....might as well use the B767s as a trial.

2. A follow-on widebody order. I too expect Onex to confirm the 10 B787 options, plus likely do some sort of add-on, 20-30 seems about right.

3. Airbus 321XLRs. The one aircraft on the market that I believe could be a real game-changer for WestJet is the Airbus 321XLR. In a nutshell, it offers narrowbody CASM but widebody range. Depending on the configuration, it can do 4000-4700 nm with 220-244 seats (I'd gather a hypothetical WS A321XLR would have ~225-230 seats) As WJ is always looking for an advantage over AC, this is the aircraft that can give it to them. And Air Canada is doing all but a handful of European routes with widebodies. A WJ A321XLR could do YYZ to much of Europe, YYZ to much of South America, or YYC / YEG to Hawaii. Imagine a WestJet network with 10-15 nightly A321XLR departures from YYZ each night to Europe, with the B787 fleet focusing on Western Canada to Europe and on the heavier YYZ - European routes. In a way, this would render their B787s more effective, as with their current route structure, WJ barely touches the sweet spot of the B787's best efficiencies. Nothing against YYZ LGW, but the B787 is ideally suited for YVR LGW, or heck YVR LGW / HKG / NRT / SEL / PEK. Hence A321XLRs would free up the B787s for more far-flung destinations, but keep the WJ presence at an efficient cost structure to much of their existing route. Sounds like a winner to me.

4. Some sort of regional jet at the WestJet Encore level, or a true 100-seat airplane such as the A220 at WestJet. There is too big of a gap in the WestJet network, between the Encore Q400s that can do ~500 nm with 78 passengers, and the smallest WestJet mainline product, the B737-600, which they have brought down to 113 seats. They need a 75-100 seater with 1500 nm range to fill in a lot of possibilities in their network.

5. Growing the WestJet Link product in Canada West / bringing it to Central and Eastern Canada. At the same time, there is also a gap below what WestJet Encore's Q400s enable. Something like a Saab 340 or DHC8 of either the 37 or 50 seat variety would let WestJet to enter or augment a number of markets that are just too small for Encore at present. . 


It seems like they have applied and received DUB slots for a 4w YYZ-DUB on a 7M8. Slots are 0755 arrival and 0925 departure. Could easily be a 763 deployment as well given its availability.
 
EIEIDW
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:22 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:38 pm

yulexpansion wrote:
WS7M8 wrote:
Things I'd like to see from WestJet in 2020:
 
1. I'd almost write this in bold and caps as I believe it is paramount to their future: Grow the YYZ widebody departures. I do get what they are trying to build in YYC....almost like a poor poor man's version of AC's YYZ Global Hub. But I firmly believe they can be moving elsewhere at the same time. They are taking their time finding the right balance for flights that go 1-2-3 times per week YYC - Europe, when if they'd move the departure to YYZ, they'd have the biggest market in Canada not to mention the benefit of 100+ connecting flights. Here are just a few markets that are proven winners in the Canadian summer that with the right tweaking they could easily do: FCO, CDG, AMS, MAN, DUB.

Thus far their B767s are only committed to 3 weekly summer flights (BCN) for 2020. I am really looking forward to them announcing their summer schedule at some point in the next month. LIkely the Max 8 situation is impacting things and they are keeping the B767s in reserve to cover trunk flying (YYC-YYZ) as this will free up 737s for other things. In a perfect world, even with a small fleet of 4 B767s, that is 3-4 European flights you could run per day. Were it me, I'd build the schedule based on three Euro flights per nights (three aircraft committed) with the fourth as a spare as the WS B767s have had reliability issues. Three flights per night is 21 flights per week. Subtracting the 3 BCN rotations that are already loaded in their schedule, that would leave 18 possible rotations to throw at Europe on a weekly basis. As they have already started taking bookings for FCO from YYC, I'm sure they've developed some data already for it (not to mention years of codesharing with Alitalia). Say 5-6 FCO rotations (Alitalia is a weak company who are having financial issues seemingly every year), 4-6 weekly YYZ CDG rotations and 3 weekly YYZ MAN and YYZ DUB rotations and their schedule starts to fill out the way it should. They could even get exotic and do YUL CDG (aircraft on a W pattern YYZ - CDG - YUL - CDG  - YUL) as YUL CDG is a guaranteed winner in Canada. YYZ MAD, YYZ - Germany, YYZ AMS are all routes that have tremendous demand from Canada and Europe in the summer months.

Regardless of how they do it, the Air Canada - Air Transat merger is giving them a unique opportunity to grow their presence at YYZ and they have got to start claiming their piece of the pie, or someone else will. And I do get their Western Canadian heritage plus trying to squeeze everything they can out of YYC, including that new hangar and departure fee breaks. And I know that they have historically moved in a conservative way as every route has to carry its weight. But opening routes from Eastern Canada to FCO, CDG, or other popular European destinations is going to take place in the WJ universe at some point in the short term future.....might as well use the B767s as a trial.

2. A follow-on widebody order. I too expect Onex to confirm the 10 B787 options, plus likely do some sort of add-on, 20-30 seems about right.

3. Airbus 321XLRs. The one aircraft on the market that I believe could be a real game-changer for WestJet is the Airbus 321XLR. In a nutshell, it offers narrowbody CASM but widebody range. Depending on the configuration, it can do 4000-4700 nm with 220-244 seats (I'd gather a hypothetical WS A321XLR would have ~225-230 seats) As WJ is always looking for an advantage over AC, this is the aircraft that can give it to them. And Air Canada is doing all but a handful of European routes with widebodies. A WJ A321XLR could do YYZ to much of Europe, YYZ to much of South America, or YYC / YEG to Hawaii. Imagine a WestJet network with 10-15 nightly A321XLR departures from YYZ each night to Europe, with the B787 fleet focusing on Western Canada to Europe and on the heavier YYZ - European routes. In a way, this would render their B787s more effective, as with their current route structure, WJ barely touches the sweet spot of the B787's best efficiencies. Nothing against YYZ LGW, but the B787 is ideally suited for YVR LGW, or heck YVR LGW / HKG / NRT / SEL / PEK. Hence A321XLRs would free up the B787s for more far-flung destinations, but keep the WJ presence at an efficient cost structure to much of their existing route. Sounds like a winner to me.

4. Some sort of regional jet at the WestJet Encore level, or a true 100-seat airplane such as the A220 at WestJet. There is too big of a gap in the WestJet network, between the Encore Q400s that can do ~500 nm with 78 passengers, and the smallest WestJet mainline product, the B737-600, which they have brought down to 113 seats. They need a 75-100 seater with 1500 nm range to fill in a lot of possibilities in their network.

5. Growing the WestJet Link product in Canada West / bringing it to Central and Eastern Canada. At the same time, there is also a gap below what WestJet Encore's Q400s enable. Something like a Saab 340 or DHC8 of either the 37 or 50 seat variety would let WestJet to enter or augment a number of markets that are just too small for Encore at present. . 


It seems like they have applied and received DUB slots for a 4w YYZ-DUB on a 7M8. Slots are 0755 arrival and 0925 departure. Could easily be a 763 deployment as well given its availability.


Any idea if/when they will announce this service?
 
User001
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:54 pm

Westjet also hold 4 weekly slots at MAN for a B78M service to YHZ, starting May 1st. WS96/97 flight nos.

However, I don't expect the max to be in service this summer, so could easily fall by the wayside for this summer.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2189
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:55 pm

EIEIDW wrote:
yulexpansion wrote:
WS7M8 wrote:
Things I'd like to see from WestJet in 2020:
 
1. I'd almost write this in bold and caps as I believe it is paramount to their future: Grow the YYZ widebody departures. I do get what they are trying to build in YYC....almost like a poor poor man's version of AC's YYZ Global Hub. But I firmly believe they can be moving elsewhere at the same time. They are taking their time finding the right balance for flights that go 1-2-3 times per week YYC - Europe, when if they'd move the departure to YYZ, they'd have the biggest market in Canada not to mention the benefit of 100+ connecting flights. Here are just a few markets that are proven winners in the Canadian summer that with the right tweaking they could easily do: FCO, CDG, AMS, MAN, DUB.

Thus far their B767s are only committed to 3 weekly summer flights (BCN) for 2020. I am really looking forward to them announcing their summer schedule at some point in the next month. LIkely the Max 8 situation is impacting things and they are keeping the B767s in reserve to cover trunk flying (YYC-YYZ) as this will free up 737s for other things. In a perfect world, even with a small fleet of 4 B767s, that is 3-4 European flights you could run per day. Were it me, I'd build the schedule based on three Euro flights per nights (three aircraft committed) with the fourth as a spare as the WS B767s have had reliability issues. Three flights per night is 21 flights per week. Subtracting the 3 BCN rotations that are already loaded in their schedule, that would leave 18 possible rotations to throw at Europe on a weekly basis. As they have already started taking bookings for FCO from YYC, I'm sure they've developed some data already for it (not to mention years of codesharing with Alitalia). Say 5-6 FCO rotations (Alitalia is a weak company who are having financial issues seemingly every year), 4-6 weekly YYZ CDG rotations and 3 weekly YYZ MAN and YYZ DUB rotations and their schedule starts to fill out the way it should. They could even get exotic and do YUL CDG (aircraft on a W pattern YYZ - CDG - YUL - CDG  - YUL) as YUL CDG is a guaranteed winner in Canada. YYZ MAD, YYZ - Germany, YYZ AMS are all routes that have tremendous demand from Canada and Europe in the summer months.

Regardless of how they do it, the Air Canada - Air Transat merger is giving them a unique opportunity to grow their presence at YYZ and they have got to start claiming their piece of the pie, or someone else will. And I do get their Western Canadian heritage plus trying to squeeze everything they can out of YYC, including that new hangar and departure fee breaks. And I know that they have historically moved in a conservative way as every route has to carry its weight. But opening routes from Eastern Canada to FCO, CDG, or other popular European destinations is going to take place in the WJ universe at some point in the short term future.....might as well use the B767s as a trial.

2. A follow-on widebody order. I too expect Onex to confirm the 10 B787 options, plus likely do some sort of add-on, 20-30 seems about right.

3. Airbus 321XLRs. The one aircraft on the market that I believe could be a real game-changer for WestJet is the Airbus 321XLR. In a nutshell, it offers narrowbody CASM but widebody range. Depending on the configuration, it can do 4000-4700 nm with 220-244 seats (I'd gather a hypothetical WS A321XLR would have ~225-230 seats) As WJ is always looking for an advantage over AC, this is the aircraft that can give it to them. And Air Canada is doing all but a handful of European routes with widebodies. A WJ A321XLR could do YYZ to much of Europe, YYZ to much of South America, or YYC / YEG to Hawaii. Imagine a WestJet network with 10-15 nightly A321XLR departures from YYZ each night to Europe, with the B787 fleet focusing on Western Canada to Europe and on the heavier YYZ - European routes. In a way, this would render their B787s more effective, as with their current route structure, WJ barely touches the sweet spot of the B787's best efficiencies. Nothing against YYZ LGW, but the B787 is ideally suited for YVR LGW, or heck YVR LGW / HKG / NRT / SEL / PEK. Hence A321XLRs would free up the B787s for more far-flung destinations, but keep the WJ presence at an efficient cost structure to much of their existing route. Sounds like a winner to me.

4. Some sort of regional jet at the WestJet Encore level, or a true 100-seat airplane such as the A220 at WestJet. There is too big of a gap in the WestJet network, between the Encore Q400s that can do ~500 nm with 78 passengers, and the smallest WestJet mainline product, the B737-600, which they have brought down to 113 seats. They need a 75-100 seater with 1500 nm range to fill in a lot of possibilities in their network.

5. Growing the WestJet Link product in Canada West / bringing it to Central and Eastern Canada. At the same time, there is also a gap below what WestJet Encore's Q400s enable. Something like a Saab 340 or DHC8 of either the 37 or 50 seat variety would let WestJet to enter or augment a number of markets that are just too small for Encore at present. . 


It seems like they have applied and received DUB slots for a 4w YYZ-DUB on a 7M8. Slots are 0755 arrival and 0925 departure. Could easily be a 763 deployment as well given its availability.


Any idea if/when they will announce this service?


If it’s on a MAX, I suspect we’ll be waiting for that announcement.....
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:09 pm

EIEIDW wrote:
yulexpansion wrote:
WS7M8 wrote:
Things I'd like to see from WestJet in 2020:
 
1. I'd almost write this in bold and caps as I believe it is paramount to their future: Grow the YYZ widebody departures. I do get what they are trying to build in YYC....almost like a poor poor man's version of AC's YYZ Global Hub. But I firmly believe they can be moving elsewhere at the same time. They are taking their time finding the right balance for flights that go 1-2-3 times per week YYC - Europe, when if they'd move the departure to YYZ, they'd have the biggest market in Canada not to mention the benefit of 100+ connecting flights. Here are just a few markets that are proven winners in the Canadian summer that with the right tweaking they could easily do: FCO, CDG, AMS, MAN, DUB.

Thus far their B767s are only committed to 3 weekly summer flights (BCN) for 2020. I am really looking forward to them announcing their summer schedule at some point in the next month. LIkely the Max 8 situation is impacting things and they are keeping the B767s in reserve to cover trunk flying (YYC-YYZ) as this will free up 737s for other things. In a perfect world, even with a small fleet of 4 B767s, that is 3-4 European flights you could run per day. Were it me, I'd build the schedule based on three Euro flights per nights (three aircraft committed) with the fourth as a spare as the WS B767s have had reliability issues. Three flights per night is 21 flights per week. Subtracting the 3 BCN rotations that are already loaded in their schedule, that would leave 18 possible rotations to throw at Europe on a weekly basis. As they have already started taking bookings for FCO from YYC, I'm sure they've developed some data already for it (not to mention years of codesharing with Alitalia). Say 5-6 FCO rotations (Alitalia is a weak company who are having financial issues seemingly every year), 4-6 weekly YYZ CDG rotations and 3 weekly YYZ MAN and YYZ DUB rotations and their schedule starts to fill out the way it should. They could even get exotic and do YUL CDG (aircraft on a W pattern YYZ - CDG - YUL - CDG  - YUL) as YUL CDG is a guaranteed winner in Canada. YYZ MAD, YYZ - Germany, YYZ AMS are all routes that have tremendous demand from Canada and Europe in the summer months.

Regardless of how they do it, the Air Canada - Air Transat merger is giving them a unique opportunity to grow their presence at YYZ and they have got to start claiming their piece of the pie, or someone else will. And I do get their Western Canadian heritage plus trying to squeeze everything they can out of YYC, including that new hangar and departure fee breaks. And I know that they have historically moved in a conservative way as every route has to carry its weight. But opening routes from Eastern Canada to FCO, CDG, or other popular European destinations is going to take place in the WJ universe at some point in the short term future.....might as well use the B767s as a trial.

2. A follow-on widebody order. I too expect Onex to confirm the 10 B787 options, plus likely do some sort of add-on, 20-30 seems about right.

3. Airbus 321XLRs. The one aircraft on the market that I believe could be a real game-changer for WestJet is the Airbus 321XLR. In a nutshell, it offers narrowbody CASM but widebody range. Depending on the configuration, it can do 4000-4700 nm with 220-244 seats (I'd gather a hypothetical WS A321XLR would have ~225-230 seats) As WJ is always looking for an advantage over AC, this is the aircraft that can give it to them. And Air Canada is doing all but a handful of European routes with widebodies. A WJ A321XLR could do YYZ to much of Europe, YYZ to much of South America, or YYC / YEG to Hawaii. Imagine a WestJet network with 10-15 nightly A321XLR departures from YYZ each night to Europe, with the B787 fleet focusing on Western Canada to Europe and on the heavier YYZ - European routes. In a way, this would render their B787s more effective, as with their current route structure, WJ barely touches the sweet spot of the B787's best efficiencies. Nothing against YYZ LGW, but the B787 is ideally suited for YVR LGW, or heck YVR LGW / HKG / NRT / SEL / PEK. Hence A321XLRs would free up the B787s for more far-flung destinations, but keep the WJ presence at an efficient cost structure to much of their existing route. Sounds like a winner to me.

4. Some sort of regional jet at the WestJet Encore level, or a true 100-seat airplane such as the A220 at WestJet. There is too big of a gap in the WestJet network, between the Encore Q400s that can do ~500 nm with 78 passengers, and the smallest WestJet mainline product, the B737-600, which they have brought down to 113 seats. They need a 75-100 seater with 1500 nm range to fill in a lot of possibilities in their network.

5. Growing the WestJet Link product in Canada West / bringing it to Central and Eastern Canada. At the same time, there is also a gap below what WestJet Encore's Q400s enable. Something like a Saab 340 or DHC8 of either the 37 or 50 seat variety would let WestJet to enter or augment a number of markets that are just too small for Encore at present. . 


It seems like they have applied and received DUB slots for a 4w YYZ-DUB on a 7M8. Slots are 0755 arrival and 0925 departure. Could easily be a 763 deployment as well given its availability.


Any idea if/when they will announce this service?


Summer schedule is typically announced at the end of January. This is when YHZ-LGW/CDG was announced a few years back too.
 
hollywoodcory
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:29 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:19 pm

https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-update ... il-4-2020/

Full details on WS MAX reductions until April 4.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2445
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:58 am

User001 wrote:
Westjet also hold 4 weekly slots at MAN for a B78M service to YHZ, starting May 1st. WS96/97 flight nos.

However, I don't expect the max to be in service this summer, so could easily fall by the wayside for this summer.


Same with the 3 slots they were awarded to launch YOW-LGW...unless they use the 763, which I doubt with very few onward connections at either end.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:38 pm

I was wondering if its possible for WS to add SMF & SJC out of YYC with WS Encore? Are the Q400's range good for those routes? It could add connecting pax to WS Europe and Eastern Canada network.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Next 789 will be registered C-GKKN, delivery date is February 6th.
 
TObound
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:02 pm

LMFNINJA wrote:
I live in Toronto and that the last flight I would take to Europe would be a WS narrow body A321XLR. Flights from Toronto to the major cities of Europe is such a large market that many people, myself included, would not take a narrow body plane when AC, Transat and all the European airlines use wide body aircraft. If WS does order the A321XLR, which I doubt since it has always been an all Boeing airline, then I doubt A321 XLR flights would have a high load factor.


The success of Transat's ULCC config A330s, really shows how little the Canadian market cares about market. And Transat is possibly larger than Air Canada across the Atlantic. Their 321LR operation is doing well and growing, showing how strong the market is for more direct and frequent flights, even if they are on a narrowbody. Would add the 321LR is probably more comfortable than their 330s.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:05 pm

TObound wrote:
LMFNINJA wrote:
I live in Toronto and that the last flight I would take to Europe would be a WS narrow body A321XLR. Flights from Toronto to the major cities of Europe is such a large market that many people, myself included, would not take a narrow body plane when AC, Transat and all the European airlines use wide body aircraft. If WS does order the A321XLR, which I doubt since it has always been an all Boeing airline, then I doubt A321 XLR flights would have a high load factor.


The success of Transat's ULCC config A330s, really shows how little the Canadian market cares about market. And Transat is possibly larger than Air Canada across the Atlantic. Their 321LR operation is doing well and growing, showing how strong the market is for more direct and frequent flights, even if they are on a narrowbody. Would add the 321LR is probably more comfortable than their 330s.

I've seen this argument before but I think in most markets where XLR's are flying it's going to be an XLR or a connection, which do you think most people are going to favor?
 
dstblj52
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:08 pm

WS7M8 wrote:
3. Airbus 321XLRs. The one aircraft on the market that I believe could be a real game-changer for WestJet is the Airbus 321XLR. In a nutshell, it offers narrowbody CASM but widebody range. Depending on the configuration, it can do 4000-4700 nm with 220-244 seats (I'd gather a hypothetical WS A321XLR would have ~225-230 seats) As WJ is always looking for an advantage over AC, this is the aircraft that can give it to them. And Air Canada is doing all but a handful of European routes with widebodies. A WJ A321XLR could do YYZ to much of Europe, YYZ to much of South America, or YYC / YEG to Hawaii. Imagine a WestJet network with 10-15 nightly A321XLR departures from YYZ each night to Europe, with the B787 fleet focusing on Western Canada to Europe and on the heavier YYZ - European routes. In a way, this would render their B787s more effective, as with their current route structure, WJ barely touches the sweet spot of the B787's best efficiencies. Nothing against YYZ LGW, but the B787 is ideally suited for YVR LGW, or heck YVR LGW / HKG / NRT / SEL / PEK. Hence A321XLRs would free up the B787s for more far-flung destinations, but keep the WJ presence at an efficient cost structure to much of their existing route. Sounds like a winner to me.

 

Narrowbody CASM?
you do realize narrowbodies have higher CASM then widebodies the only market where its going to work (for legacy cost base airlines) is where your options are XLR or connection because you can get a premium their.
 
TObound
Posts: 536
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:11 pm

I am wondering if WS is better off converting a handful of orders from the 789 to 78J. Surely, that would help in London.
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:21 pm

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
LMFNINJA wrote:
WS7M8 wrote:

I live in Toronto and that the last flight I would take to Europe would be a WS narrow body A321XLR. Flights from Toronto to the major cities of Europe is such a large market that many people, myself included, would not take a narrow body plane when AC, Transat and all the European airlines use wide body aircraft. If WS does order the A321XLR, which I doubt since it has always been an all Boeing airline, then I doubt A321 XLR flights would have a high load factor.


See the problem with this comment is that the general public doesn't really care about what type of aircraft is being used at the end of the day if the flight with the A321LR is 1$ cheaper thats the flight they are booking.


I also live in Toronto and have taken narrowbodies to Europe from here multiple times... I really don't get this hang up with narrowbodies. Far more comfortable than Transats 310/330 which I'll only ever fly in Club as Y is just too excruciatingly painful. 321LR/XLR no issue, bit I will be avoiding when MAX returns. I'm not price conscious and always book route/airline depending on metal.

Hoping no MAX flights to DUB as they'll be avoided.
 
WS7M8
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:50 pm

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
alexdelzotto1 wrote:
LMFNINJA wrote:


See the problem with this comment is that the general public doesn't really care about what type of aircraft is being used at the end of the day if the flight with the A321LR is 1$ cheaper thats the flight they are booking.


I also live in Toronto and have taken narrowbodies to Europe from here multiple times... I really don't get this hang up with narrowbodies. Far more comfortable than Transats 310/330 which I'll only ever fly in Club as Y is just too excruciatingly painful. 321LR/XLR no issue, bit I will be avoiding when MAX returns. I'm not price conscious and always book route/airline depending on metal.

Hoping no MAX flights to DUB as they'll be avoided
.


I don't think that will be an issue, as even if the Max were to operate in S2020 (which is anyone's guess), I don't think its range will suffice for YYZ DUB, which according to GCMap is 2849 nm. Tack on a few extra miles for non-direct routings and alternate fuel and although the aircraft could make it eastbound, westbound it wouldn't.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=dub-yyz-cd ... =nm&SU=mph

Just for grins, I threw in a few other routes that WestJet has done or probably has looked at.

YHZ CDG they did in S2018, that is 2640nm and the Captain told me the airplane had limits on the return flight.
YYZ CDG is 3200 + nm, too much for a Max 8.
YUL CDG is 2991 nm, likely just a little too far for a WestJet Max 8
YQB CDG is 2866 nm, sort of like YYZ DUB, doable but limited on the westbound return.

These are the kind of routes where the Airbus 321NEO and especially the A321XLR are going to shine, as they have that extra hour or two of range that the Max 8 doesn't have, which opens up so many more possibilities.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:02 pm

WS7M8 wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
alexdelzotto1 wrote:

See the problem with this comment is that the general public doesn't really care about what type of aircraft is being used at the end of the day if the flight with the A321LR is 1$ cheaper thats the flight they are booking.


I also live in Toronto and have taken narrowbodies to Europe from here multiple times... I really don't get this hang up with narrowbodies. Far more comfortable than Transats 310/330 which I'll only ever fly in Club as Y is just too excruciatingly painful. 321LR/XLR no issue, bit I will be avoiding when MAX returns. I'm not price conscious and always book route/airline depending on metal.

Hoping no MAX flights to DUB as they'll be avoided
.


I don't think that will be an issue, as even if the Max were to operate in S2020 (which is anyone's guess), I don't think its range will suffice for YYZ DUB, which according to GCMap is 2849 nm. Tack on a few extra miles for non-direct routings and alternate fuel and although the aircraft could make it eastbound, westbound it wouldn't.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=dub-yyz-cd ... =nm&SU=mph

Just for grins, I threw in a few other routes that WestJet has done or probably has looked at.

YHZ CDG they did in S2018, that is 2640nm and the Captain told me the airplane had limits on the return flight.
YYZ CDG is 3200 + nm, too much for a Max 8.
YUL CDG is 2991 nm, likely just a little too far for a WestJet Max 8
YQB CDG is 2866 nm, sort of like YYZ DUB, doable but limited on the westbound return.

These are the kind of routes where the Airbus 321NEO and especially the A321XLR are going to shine, as they have that extra hour or two of range that the Max 8 doesn't have, which opens up so many more possibilities.


Totally agree about the A321, no doubt it's better in this role, but sub 3000nm, the max can hold its own. I used to know an AC max captain, I asked him about yyz-snn, he said that they could go full pax and bags, occasionally taking some freight. YYZ-DUB on a slightly denser WA max 8 should fall into a fairly similar performance area, yeah it's doable, though they may have to limit loads ever so slightly.

Speaking of which, there is a "special announcement" on Thursday at a pub in YHZ, likely announcing yhz-man, could possibly contain the yyz-dub announcement as well.
 
WS7M8
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:07 pm

YYZORD wrote:
I was wondering if its possible for WS to add SMF & SJC out of YYC with WS Encore? Are the Q400's range good for those routes? It could add connecting pax to WS Europe and Eastern Canada network.


This is a really interesting question you raise.

I plugged what you suggested into GCMap

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yyc-smf-yy ... =nm&SU=mph

One of the gaps in WestJet's network is a 75-100 seat airplane (jet) that can do 800-1500 nm.

My guess is both those markets would be appealing to them from either YVR or YYC, as they continue to grow their widebody network and hope to tap into connecting traffic between the USA and Europe, not to mention offer more connecting possibilities for Canadian passengers. I also threw in the YVR - Whitehorse route on the map just for grins, as it is a market WS vacated a year or two ago, as they are routing YXY traffic through YYC instead. I suspect if WestJet had a smaller aircraft with the required range, they would be back in the YVR YXY market.

The WestJet Encore Q400s can reliably do about a 600 nm route, ~2.5 hours flying time. Possible existing solutions include the Embraer 170/175/190/195 or the various E2 series, or the CRJ1000, likely flown under the WestJet Encore banner.

The one wildcard that I think could happen is whenever the WestJet - Delta joint venture is made official (hopefully within a few months), could WestJet (and Delta) engage Delta Connection to do a certain amount of transborder flying on their behalf? It wouldn't be much, perhaps five airplanes worth of work, but would it be more cost effective on a trial basis, before perhaps bringing it in-house under WesJet Encore.

Several posters in this thread have noted this gap in the WestJet fleet. It will be interesting to see what they do to try and fill it.
 
digitalcloud
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:43 pm

Ripe rumours on here and elsewhere of YYZ-EDI, is there any truth in it? Looking back at this thread it was suggested that YYZ-DUB was on the cards on the 767.
 
hollywoodcory
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:49 pm

digitalcloud wrote:
Ripe rumours on here and elsewhere of YYZ-EDI, is there any truth in it? Looking back at this thread it was suggested that YYZ-DUB was on the cards on the 767.


WestJet is supposedly making an announcement in YHZ later this week, but I suspected it might be the rumored MAN route. EDI was also briefly rumored last year as well.
 
digitalcloud
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:30 pm

hollywoodcory wrote:
digitalcloud wrote:
Ripe rumours on here and elsewhere of YYZ-EDI, is there any truth in it? Looking back at this thread it was suggested that YYZ-DUB was on the cards on the 767.


WestJet is supposedly making an announcement in YHZ later this week, but I suspected it might be the rumored MAN route. EDI was also briefly rumored last year as well.
I remember that, but wasn't that (allegedly) YHZ?
 
WS7M8
Topic Author
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:02 am

hollywoodcory wrote:
digitalcloud wrote:
Ripe rumours on here and elsewhere of YYZ-EDI, is there any truth in it? Looking back at this thread it was suggested that YYZ-DUB was on the cards on the 767.


WestJet is supposedly making an announcement in YHZ later this week, but I suspected it might be the rumored MAN route. EDI was also briefly rumored last year as well.


I believe GLA isn't quite daily, except for certain summertime peaks. I would imagine WS probably feels GLA serves both markets adequately as it is quite easy and quick to get between the two cities via bus / train. For my 2 cents, EDI has far more to do and is the bigger tourist draw. Almost surprised they don't do GLA certain days of the week and EDI the other days. Even the crew positioning wouldn't be that difficult as the GLA inbound could overnight in EDI and vice versa.

I'll be keeping an eye on this announcement. I certainly hope to hear something about WestJet TATL service S2020 in the next few weeks.
 
PlaneMad134
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:33 am

I'm hearing WestJet EDI-YYZ on 767, DUB-YYZ on 767 and MAN-YHZ on B737Max8. I think all would be announced together if they are to be announced.
 
digitalcloud
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:34 am

WS7M8 wrote:
I believe GLA isn't quite daily, except for certain summertime peaks. I would imagine WS probably feels GLA serves both markets adequately as it is quite easy and quick to get between the two cities via bus / train. For my 2 cents, EDI has far more to do and is the bigger tourist draw. Almost surprised they don't do GLA certain days of the week and EDI the other days. Even the crew positioning wouldn't be that difficult as the GLA inbound could overnight in EDI and vice versa.


Traditionally the Canadian population is in the west which is why GLA has far more services to Canada than EDI. Until recently, YVR and YYC were also served ex GLA. YYC has a lot of connecting traffic to GLA with most of the Scottish population being in Alberta.

While it's true that EDI has the larger tourist draw, you have to remember that for many Americans and Canadians a Scottish vacation is more than just a city break and will usually involve spending time in the Highlands, often incorporating a visit to both cities. In this regard GLA has a slight advantage.
 
TObound
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:23 pm

It's been mentioned earlier in the thread. But I wish there was more discussion on YOW as a hub for WS. I could really see it working. AC really own Ottawa. So there's lots of room for competition. Especially, if they are willing to build a network into the Maritimes. Arguably would take a smaller type. E2s or A220s to build up in YOW. But they could steal from Porter, Air Canada, Canadian North and even some of the vacation carriers.
 
hollywoodcory
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:48 am

YHZ-MAN is confirmed and loaded in the GDS currently showing 4x weekly on B73W from June 1.

WS057 YHZ 2245 - 0812+1 MAN 73W X246
WS058 MAN 0945 - 1152 YHZ 73W X357
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:49 am

YHZ-MAN on B737 confirmed:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... june-2020/

WestJet in summer 2020 season is launching new Trans-Atlantic service from Halifax, where it’ll offer Halifax – Manchester nonstop flight. From 05JUN20, Boeing 737-700 aircraft will operate this route 4 times weekly.

WS057 YHZ2245 – 0812+1MAN 73W x246
WS058 MAN0945 – 1152YHZ 73W x357

Manchester will be the airline’s 3rd destination in the UK, also the 3rd UK route from Halifax.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
hollywoodcory
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:01 pm

http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2020-01-17 ... nd-Calgary

WS adding YYC-YYG 4x weekly from June 25

WS340 YYC 22:45 - 06:23+1 YYG 1246 73W
WS341 YYG 07:15 - 09:33 YYC 2357 73W
 
Dominion301
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Re: The WestJet Thread

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:36 am

First ever transcon for YYG.
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