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stasisLAX
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Russia and Turkey Discuss Joint Production of Airliners and Helicopters

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:49 am

Per TASS & Sputnik news, Turkey has agreed in principle to a joint manufacturing proposal for the Superjet and MC21 airliners, as well as military grade helicopters. The tensions between Turkish and American administrations continues.

https://sputniknews-com.cdn.ampproject. ... inister%2F
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title was misleading
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vahancrazy
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Re: Turkey to jointly build Sukhoi Superjet and MC21

Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:37 am

Wow! That's interesting and seems highly risky.
It would make sense if they could open factories in Turkey.
 
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stasisLAX
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Re: Turkey to jointly build Sukhoi Superjet and MC21

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:08 am

vahancrazy wrote:
Wow! That's interesting and seems highly risky.
It would make sense if they could open factories in Turkey.


Why highly risky? The technology transfer?
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UnMAXed
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Re: Russia and Turkey Discuss Joint Production of Airliners and Helicopters

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:32 am

So TK would conceivably be "encouraged" by the Erdogan regime to buy MC-21s?
What about Sukhoi Superjets? That bird could definitely use some more orders!
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: Russia and Turkey Discuss Joint Production of Airliners and Helicopters

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:39 am

This may help global after sales support for Russian frames
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Turkey to jointly build Sukhoi Superjet and MC21

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:14 am

stasisLAX wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
Wow! That's interesting and seems highly risky.
It would make sense if they could open factories in Turkey.


Why highly risky? The technology transfer?


A bit of that but more about long run producing and airplane maintenance culture.
It is my understanding that while an ok machine, the superjet has not enough support for normal intensive operations such as A, B, Ebraer.
For the MC21 cannot say yet.

If turkey wants to run own production or gain experteese, there are some wide gaps that will not be covered.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Turkey to jointly build Sukhoi Superjet and MC21

Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:03 pm

vahancrazy wrote:
stasisLAX wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
Wow! That's interesting and seems highly risky.
It would make sense if they could open factories in Turkey.


Why highly risky? The technology transfer?


A bit of that but more about long run producing and airplane maintenance culture.
It is my understanding that while an ok machine, the superjet has not enough support for normal intensive operations such as A, B, Ebraer.
For the MC21 cannot say yet.

If turkey wants to run own production or gain experteese, there are some wide gaps that will not be covered.

Turkey would do well to talk to other nations to learn about how partnering with the Russians usually ends up.

Meanwhile MC-21 has a lot of US tech on it, so it's a move that will gain independence from US influences:

Engines

The 30,000 lbf (130 kN) thrust class Pratt & Whitney PW1000G was selected in December 2009.[53] The Russian engine will be the 18,000–35,000 lbf (8–16 tf) Aviadvigatel PD-14.[54] United Engine Corporation (UEC) planned to deliver five PD-14s for the MC-21 by the end of 2018, after Rosaviatsia certification, to start flight tests in 2019 for type certification of the variant in 2021.[55] The project is behind schedule, with the first flight expected in the final quarter of 2019; in the meantime the MC-21 is being flight-tested with its first engine option, the PW1400G.[56]

It was granted Russian type certification in 2018.[57]

Systems

In August 2009, Hamilton Sundstrand, a subsidiary of United Technologies, announced it will provide electric power generation and distribution equipment for $2.3 billion over 20 years of production.[58] Rockwell Collins and its Russian partner Avionika were selected to supply the MC-21's avionics.[59] Honeywell, Thales and Elbit Systems supplies avionics with 9 X 12 in multifunction displays, electronic flight bags, synthetic vision and enhanced vision systems. The MC-21 will be the first airliner with active sidesticks, supplied by UTC Aerospace Systems.[9] It has Fly-By-Wire controls.[50] It has a glass cockpit with side-stick controls and an optional Head-up display.

Goodrich Corporation, also a subsidiary of United Technologies, along with Aviapribor was selected to provide the flight control system actuators.[60] Zodiac Aerospace, Eaton and Meggitt provide other components.[9] Interior furnishings will come from Zodiac Aerospace, coordinated from C&D Zodiac in Huntington Beach, California. Innovations from Zodiac Aerospace in Carson, California, will be incorporated in the water and waste systems.

There are two types of auxiliary power units (APU) designed with specifications suitable for MC-21: HGT750 from Honeywell Aerospace[61] and TA18-200 developed by Aerosila.[62]

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkut_MC-21
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vahancrazy
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Re: Turkey to jointly build Sukhoi Superjet and MC21

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:13 am

Revelation wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:

Turkey would do well to talk to other nations to learn about how partnering with the Russians usually ends up.

Meanwhile MC-21 has a lot of US tech on it, so it's a move that will gain independence from US influences:

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkut_MC-21


Thanks for the reminder on MC-21.
Indeed I missed some and my comment was more due to Superjet.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Russia and Turkey Discuss Joint Production of Airliners and Helicopters

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:47 am

The Russian jets have quite a bit of US/Western tech indeed. I think it will eventually lead to US sales.

Had the SSJ been engineered to be scope compliant (less than 86,000 pounds), I bet it would be flying in the US today.
 
FromGSPtoChi
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Re: Russia and Turkey Discuss Joint Production of Airliners and Helicopters

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:12 am

Zhukovsky (Russia) (AFP) - Russia is set to unveil on Wednesday its new passenger plane MC-21, billed as a competitor to Boeing and Airbus even as the project is overshadowed by sanctions and setbacks with its predecessor, the Superjet

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-aims- ... 03330.html
 
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Re: Turkey to jointly build Sukhoi Superjet and MC21

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:57 am

vahancrazy wrote:
Wow! That's interesting and seems highly risky.
It would make sense if they could open factories in Turkey.

Indeed. This will surely Herald the opening of the second TU-204 line to churn out all the needed 757 replacements. This is what Boeing gets for sleeping behind the wheel.
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DWC
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Re: Russia and Turkey Discuss Joint Production of Airliners and Helicopters

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:57 pm

You can be sure the US, and Boeing behind it, will try to torpedo any aeronautic cooperation with Russia, specially from a major NATO member like Turkey. In fact they already have, consistent foulplays like they did with the C-series :
1) the MC-21 will have 1-2 years delay due to recent specific sanctions on US exports to Russia ( see MC-21 thread )
2) The US also kicked out Turkey from its F-35 joint programme after Turkey signed with Russia on the S400 deal.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... el-460499/
3) The US are also threatening other countries should they buy Russian aeronautic equipment ( here Indonesia )
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... an-460538/

I also don't think Airbus will stay arms folded, but they do not have the political & military power the US can throw in the mix.

Just to say that if Turkey & Russia want to Tango together, they are going against very powerful allies.
At the same time, these western foul play have now put Russia & China in bed together : some babies have been announced with Comac, but we have yet to see how these grow & how old.

The MC-21 is a technology threat to the 737 & the A320 to a lesser extent ; not so commercially, let alone industrially.
But neither Boeing nor Airbus can let the MC-21 gain momemtum or clout it is better than their NBs, the A220 is a clear example of how sales can balloon once doubts are erased & confidence built up. Same for the A300 & A320 in their times. For political & service reasons, I don't think the MC-21 will sell in the West, but it can in Asia ( where all the growth is ), Africa & perhaps Latin America, enough to cause worries.

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