jetsetterusa
Topic Author
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:13 am

AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:53 pm

I see a small amount of weather going to ORD so I know that has something to do with a 2hr ground stop but a small amount of weather should not cause a 2hr ground stop could it? is it winds or something else?
Crazy Day Tripper
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 361
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:57 pm

Wx has caused multiple directions of the flights to be stopped with avg dept delays over 1.5 hours. With the 2 lines of wx on both sides of ORD there wasn’t many paths to go with the planes.
 
flight152
Posts: 3412
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:05 pm

Small amount of weather? It’s a line of thunderstorms over 500 miles long.
 
ual763
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:43 pm

Some intl. flights have also diverted to MKE
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7299
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:25 pm

There is a literal wall of thunderstorms stretching from mid-Michigan down to TN. Literally almost impossible without some serious circumnavigation to get to/from ORD to anywhere in the Northeast / Mid-Atlantic region.

Thus getting too many airplanes on the ground at ORD as well.
Also a few lines of storms have gone through there today earlier.
 
ytib
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:25 pm

This is the current Advisory for ORD.

ATCSCC 081 ORD/ZAU 07/29/2019 CDM GROUND DELAY PROGRAM
CTL ELEMENT: ORD
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 1736Z
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: UDP
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 29/1736Z - 30/0259Z
CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 29/1600Z - 30/0259Z
PROGRAM RATE: 66/45/54/76/76/88/88/114/114/114
FLT INCL: ALL CONTIGUOUS US DEP
DEP SCOPE: (ALL+CZY_AP) ZLA ZAU ZLC ZTL ZDC ZNY ZHU ZJX ZFW ZOB ZDV
ZOA ZSE ZBW ZMA ZKC ZME ZID ZAB ZMP
CANADIAN DEP ARPTS INCLUDED: CYHZ CYOW CYUL CYYZ
DELAY ASSIGNMENT TABLE APPLIES TO: ZAU
MAXIMUM DELAY: 293
AVERAGE DELAY: 137
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / THUNDERSTORMS
COMMENTS: ARRIVING AND DEPARTING WESTBOUND. AAL AND SUBS WILL REMAIN
IN STOP UNITL 1930, CENTERS EAST OF THE WEATHER WILL REMAIN IN GS
UNTIL THEY HAVE ROUTES AVAILABLE. GS CANCELLED FOR EVERYONE ELSE,
USE NEW EDCTS.

This one was a little earlier

ATCSCC 078 DCC/ZAU 07/29/2019 AAL AND SUBS ORD STOP
EVENT TIME: 29/1715 -
DESTINATION AIRPORT: ORD
FACILITIES INCLUDED: ALL CENTERS
GROUND STOP PERIOD: 29/1715Z - 29/1930Z
REASON: USER REQ FOR GATE ISSUES
REMARKS: ORD GROUND STOP FOR AAL AND SUBS ONLY. IN ADDITION TO THE
2ND TIER GS AT ORD AT THIS TIME.
Airbus:318,319,320,321,332,333,388
Boeing:707,717,732,733,734,73Q,735,73G,738,7M8,739,752,753,742,74L,744,762,763,772,77L,77W,789
Misc:142,CN1,CR2,CR7,DC8,DH2,DH8,D8Q,D10,D95,EM2,ER3,ER4,E70,100,J31,M11,M83,M88,M90,SF3

Where is Neil
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1095
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:33 pm

The wall of weather is mostly just rain. Big gaps between the yellow. The WSR88 system was the worst thing that ever happened to aviation. Another hysterical overreaction by ATC.
 
User avatar
AAlaxfan
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:08 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:51 pm

Hey, was it just AA or did it effect UA also? If so the title of this thread should be changed. Sounds like AA bashing.
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
aklrno
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:11 pm

I had two such ground stops in the last 30 days. Both lasted about two hours, one at DEN and one at ORD. Thunderstorms. Both had all airlines stopped; I was on UA. Ground crews don't work outdoors during thunderstorms.

Nothing to see here. Please just move on.
 
User avatar
September11
Posts: 3607
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:40 pm

I guess 20 ground stops a year at ORD is typical.
Airliners.net of the Future
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7299
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:09 pm

This has been the case for decades at ORD and nothing new. Lines of thundstorms will to do that.

This issue today is a few things:

1) Two of the primary arrival corridors from the east have effectively been shut down all today.
The only arrival corridor from the east that has been open have required significantly northern routings, up over parts of Canada and Northern Michigan, but much of that has been used by all the inbound TATL flights, leaving little capacity to absorb any additional capacity from other arrival corridors

2) Two of the primary departure routes to the east have also been shut-down.

3) Storms passed over ORD, temporarily halting all arrivals and departures briefly earlier today

3) Storms and lightning passing over ORD, closing the ramp for a few periods this morning today.

Then, add 1, 2, and 3 together that put too many aircraft on the ground without sufficient gate space, which then leads to ...4)

4) Ground stops of holding inbound aircraft at the origin, until they can free-up space for additional arrivals.

While they have added a bunch of runway capacity at ORD, there are still limitations on gate space on the ground and for capacity on the arrival departure corridors in the air.

There isn't a ton of room in to do full-scale re-routes for eastbound arrivals and departures since the air space starts to get pretty congested.
There is all the MDW traffic and specific corridors. DTW & YYZ to the east. Then there is all the flow in/out of the Northeast that starts backing up all the way into Ohio. Cleveland Center doesn't the air space to handle all the ORD re-routing on a day like today.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3894
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:56 pm

jetsetterusa wrote:
I see a small amount of weather going to ORD so I know that has something to do with a 2hr ground stop but a small amount of weather should not cause a 2hr ground stop could it? is it winds or something else?

It usually has to do with Lightning and electrical storms in the area. I almost got smoked when a lightning bolt hit the ramp while I was directing an airplane into a gate.
It hit the ground 10 feet away from me and I could fell the Buzz all through my Body. I found out later it was because of the Steel Rebar they used to reinforce the Concrete Parking Pads at the gates. I NEVER questioned it again...
 
BatonOps
Posts: 712
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:00 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:48 am

SteelChair wrote:
The wall of weather is mostly just rain. Big gaps between the yellow. The WSR88 system was the worst thing that ever happened to aviation. Another hysterical overreaction by ATC.


Gotta love arm chair quarterbacks!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7299
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:33 am

I guess I just take offense to the tone of some of these posts that take the tone of blantent armchair quarterbacking or attempts at drive-by bashing.

It’s one thing to ask a question like “hey I noticed AA is in a ground stop at ORD, can anyone tell me what is going on there? How bad is the weather?”

It is a a lot different that “hey wtf is wrong with AA at ORD today? Why are they in a ground stop, surely it can’t be that bad????”

There are a lot of complex aspects to operating in adverse weather conditions. Truthfully all airlines are light years ahead of where they were 2 decades ago and have far better data and resources available to make decisions. Mother Nature can never be overruled though.
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1602
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:46 am

Wasn't just AA. Tried to get on two different Delta flights to ORD today and both were delayed by over three hours.

Maybe it's the traffic but just like NYC when bad weather hits ORD the airport completely falls apart. Very poorly run airport considering MDW operates just fine.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
GoSteelers
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:16 pm

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:53 am

SteelChair wrote:
The wall of weather is mostly just rain. Big gaps between the yellow. The WSR88 system was the worst thing that ever happened to aviation. Another hysterical overreaction by ATC.


If it’s a GS for a specific airline, as in AA and Subs only, I can pretty much guarantee it was not an ATC issue, it was at the airline request.
 
Atlwarrior
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:23 am

ORD recorded over 6 inches of rain over the airport yesterday. I think that warrants delays.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5632
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:59 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I guess I just take offense to the tone of some of these posts that take the tone of blantent armchair quarterbacking or attempts at drive-by bashing.

It’s one thing to ask a question like “hey I noticed AA is in a ground stop at ORD, can anyone tell me what is going on there? How bad is the weather?”

It is a a lot different that “hey wtf is wrong with AA at ORD today? Why are they in a ground stop, surely it can’t be that bad????”


One ought to start with the FAA flight delay info map,

https://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/usmap.jsp

and then look at a decent radar weather map, as with weather.com

People are responsible for bringing some skills.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1095
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:43 pm

GoSteelers wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
The wall of weather is mostly just rain. Big gaps between the yellow. The WSR88 system was the worst thing that ever happened to aviation. Another hysterical overreaction by ATC.


If it’s a GS for a specific airline, as in AA and Subs only, I can pretty much guarantee it was not an ATC issue, it was at the airline request.


There were multiple GS and a GDP. For -TSRA that was moving and has huge holes in it.
 
reednavy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:35 pm

When it's abundantly clear a person does not understand ATC and the multiple layers that go into these decisions. Either that or just a blowhard troll.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1910
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:03 pm

GoSteelers wrote:
If it’s a GS for a specific airline, as in AA and Subs only, I can pretty much guarantee it was not an ATC issue, it was at the airline request.

ytib wrote:
ATCSCC 078 DCC/ZAU 07/29/2019 AAL AND SUBS ORD STOP
EVENT TIME: 29/1715 -
DESTINATION AIRPORT: ORD
FACILITIES INCLUDED: ALL CENTERS
GROUND STOP PERIOD: 29/1715Z - 29/1930Z
REASON: USER REQ FOR GATE ISSUES
REMARKS: ORD GROUND STOP FOR AAL AND SUBS ONLY. IN ADDITION TO THE
2ND TIER GS AT ORD AT THIS TIME.


SteelChair wrote:
There were multiple GS and a GDP. For -TSRA that was moving and has huge holes in it.


Read the notice, it clearly says that AA requested an internal one for gate issues in addition to the existing GS that was in place for ORD. So one the storm started to move and break-up a little bit, the ORD specific stop was cancelled and the AA internal one remained in place due to gate issues.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
ckfred
Posts: 5148
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:20 pm

This was probably 15 years ago, but I had dropped off my wife at ORD. She was flying Eagle that evening to CLT. About the time I pulled in the driveway, she called to say that the flight was cancelled, as were many other flights. The AA baggage office was a madhouse, because people were trying to get their checked bags, so they could go home or check into a hotel.

It turns out that there was a line of thunderstorms extending from Detroit to South Bend and down to St. Louis. While the weather in Chicago was fine, the airspace to the northeast, east, southeast and south of Chicago was closed. So, flights to Boston, New York, Washington, Atlanta, all of Florida, Nashville, and New Orleans was cancelled. If you were going to MSP, LAX, SEA, DFW, MCI, or DEN, you may have been delayed due to aircraft not where they were supposed to be, but the air space was clear.

I remember looking at the Weather Channel later, and the storm from was just a thick line of orange, red, and purple. Those are the storm fronts where the cloud tops can easily reach to 30,000 feet and higher.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1095
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:38 pm

alasizon wrote:
GoSteelers wrote:
If it’s a GS for a specific airline, as in AA and Subs only, I can pretty much guarantee it was not an ATC issue, it was at the airline request.

ytib wrote:
ATCSCC 078 DCC/ZAU 07/29/2019 AAL AND SUBS ORD STOP
EVENT TIME: 29/1715 -
DESTINATION AIRPORT: ORD
FACILITIES INCLUDED: ALL CENTERS
GROUND STOP PERIOD: 29/1715Z - 29/1930Z
REASON: USER REQ FOR GATE ISSUES
REMARKS: ORD GROUND STOP FOR AAL AND SUBS ONLY. IN ADDITION TO THE
2ND TIER GS AT ORD AT THIS TIME.


SteelChair wrote:
There were multiple GS and a GDP. For -TSRA that was moving and has huge holes in it.


Read the notice, it clearly says that AA requested an internal one for gate issues in addition to the existing GS that was in place for ORD. So one the storm started to move and break-up a little bit, the ORD specific stop was cancelled and the AA internal one remained in place due to gate issues.


There were many notices that day.

There were 5 ORD Ground Stops that day that included all carriers from various centers.

The GDP was issued and then reissued.

So in summary, all day GDP, in and out of GS, in addition to the AAL only GS. Yes the AAL only one was at AA request.

All because of -TSRA that was moving and had massive holes.
 
airstatdfw
Posts: 361
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:04 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:41 pm

SteelChair wrote:
alasizon wrote:
GoSteelers wrote:
If it’s a GS for a specific airline, as in AA and Subs only, I can pretty much guarantee it was not an ATC issue, it was at the airline request.

ytib wrote:
ATCSCC 078 DCC/ZAU 07/29/2019 AAL AND SUBS ORD STOP
EVENT TIME: 29/1715 -
DESTINATION AIRPORT: ORD
FACILITIES INCLUDED: ALL CENTERS
GROUND STOP PERIOD: 29/1715Z - 29/1930Z
REASON: USER REQ FOR GATE ISSUES
REMARKS: ORD GROUND STOP FOR AAL AND SUBS ONLY. IN ADDITION TO THE
2ND TIER GS AT ORD AT THIS TIME.


SteelChair wrote:
There were multiple GS and a GDP. For -TSRA that was moving and has huge holes in it.


Read the notice, it clearly says that AA requested an internal one for gate issues in addition to the existing GS that was in place for ORD. So one the storm started to move and break-up a little bit, the ORD specific stop was cancelled and the AA internal one remained in place due to gate issues.


There were many notices that day.

There were 5 ORD Ground Stops that day that included all carriers from various centers.

The GDP was issued and then reissued.

So in summary, all day GDP, in and out of GS, in addition to the AAL only GS. Yes the AAL only one was at AA request.

All because of -TSRA that was moving and had massive holes.


We will try to vector aircraft though holes in the wx. But sometimes pilots will still ask to deviate or not go through the hole. Once you start deviating it backs everything up. It’s even worse if the arrivals deviate into the dept corridor, we lose the corridor for depts and then have to reroute a/c to other directions, which also may be stopped. Yesterday there was a time that the East, North and South were all stopped. Some east bound jets didn’t have enough fuel for a Westbound reroute and went back to the gate for fuel, which then causes gates issues.
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1177
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:57 pm

AA has for decades imposed it's own flow control when a hub starts to back up. Essentially they delay banks following the one currently involved with the affected hub operation, so that the next bank doesn't arrive while the previous one is still there. And that can stagger back through the rest of that day. Holds are at origin rather than have planes stacked up at the hub with no place to go. It actually works better for the connections as everything essentially runs on a new schedule once the weather or operations event clears. So while a single flight of another carrier can arrive and depart whenever it can (with whatever is going on with ATC), trickling in banks of connecting flights doesn't work that way; rampant misconnects. If it really goes south, entire banks can be cancelled in order to get the system back on track.
I assume other hub carriers do the same; I'm just basing my reply on past experience as an AA airport agent. "CAC" in FLIFO meant to us that we didn't have to rebook connections for our delayed flight because everything was going to be delayed and just flow together later. (Flights at curfewed airports, like SNA, wouldn't usually be held, so those would generate overnight misconnects.)
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
Oilman
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:38 pm

Why would AA (or any airline) need to have a ground stop issued by the FAA for only their own flights? Can’t they simply delay their own flights at origin without FAA help?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3542
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:05 pm

Brings ATC into the loop at the command center and at the departure airports. Now ATC can plan knowing there’s a GS for AA flights
 
User avatar
September11
Posts: 3607
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

Re: AA ORD Ground Stop 7-29-2019

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:57 pm

Is this one of WN’s reasons not to fly to ORD?
Airliners.net of the Future

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos