clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:20 pm

Flew to YUL last week and was surprised to see so many QR planes there. There were two A330's, one sitting on the ramp and one about to depart for BCN, as well as two 77W's, one operating the normal YUL-DOH and one doing YUL-CMN. Am I correct in understanding that both AC and AT are leasing these planes from QR for summer op's out of YUL?
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2322
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:38 pm

It's just AC as part of the MAX shuffle.
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:48 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Flew to YUL last week and was surprised to see so many QR planes there. There were two A330's, one sitting on the ramp and one about to depart for BCN, as well as two 77W's, one operating the normal YUL-DOH and one doing YUL-CMN. Am I correct in understanding that both AC and AT are leasing these planes from QR for summer op's out of YUL?


Indeed, AT is leasing a 77W to operate one of the two daily YUL-CMN during the summer season.
 
aeropix
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:08 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:00 pm

What? TWICE every day from Montreal to Casablanca? What is the attraction?
 
sargester
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:29 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:05 pm

aeropix wrote:
What? TWICE every day from Montreal to Casablanca? What is the attraction?


Lots of Moroccans in the Montreal area
 
sw733
Posts: 5861
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:13 pm

sargester wrote:
aeropix wrote:
What? TWICE every day from Montreal to Casablanca? What is the attraction?


Lots of Moroccans in the Montreal area


Yes, and also a decent amount of travel the other direction. It's a beautiful, largely safe, largely francophone country, so Québécois travel to Morocco is not a small number by any means.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5418
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:46 pm

sw733 wrote:
Yes, and also a decent amount of travel the other direction. It's a beautiful, largely safe, largely francophone country, so Québécois travel to Morocco is not a small number by any means.


Maybe Air Canada Rouge could start YUL/YYZ-RAK. Marrakech is booming and becoming a "must visit" global destination.

On the other hand, improvements in the train between Casablanca and Marrakech have reduced travel time between the two cities to less than three hours (and it should be further reduced to a bit more than 2 hours), so maybe it is not worth for North American carriers to split traffic between CMN and RAK.
 
sw733
Posts: 5861
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:53 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
sw733 wrote:
Yes, and also a decent amount of travel the other direction. It's a beautiful, largely safe, largely francophone country, so Québécois travel to Morocco is not a small number by any means.


Maybe Air Canada Rouge could start YUL/YYZ-RAK. Marrakech is booming and becoming a "must visit" global destination.

On the other hand, improvements in the train between Casablanca and Marrakech have reduced travel time between the two cities to less than three hours (and it should be further reduced to a bit more than 2 hours), so maybe it is not worth for North American carriers to split traffic between CMN and RAK.


It very well may not be. My wife's family is in Marrakech so we go fairly frequently, and it really makes no difference to us if we fly in to CMN or RAK...we base it on schedules and fares, knowing that ground transport (be it train or a hired ride, should her family not be able to pick us up in CMN) is easy and relatively cheap.
 
fraT
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:07 pm

sw733 wrote:
sargester wrote:
aeropix wrote:
What? TWICE every day from Montreal to Casablanca? What is the attraction?


Lots of Moroccans in the Montreal area


Yes, and also a decent amount of travel the other direction. It's a beautiful, largely safe, largely francophone country, so Québécois travel to Morocco is not a small number by any means.


Actually the travel is approx. 90 % originating in North America. It's not the Moroccans going to Canada but rather VFR travel of people living in Canada visiting family back home plus the North American tourists going there.
 
aeropix
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:08 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:14 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Maybe Air Canada Rouge could start YUL/YYZ-RAK. Marrakech is booming and becoming a "must visit" global destination.


For a moment I thought you were talking about Ras Al Khaimah (RKT) in the UAE, (which we here refers to locally as RAK) wondering what the possible attraction for THAT route would be :-)
 
User avatar
GE9X
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:13 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:49 pm

aeropix wrote:
What? TWICE every day from Montreal to Casablanca? What is the attraction?


Montreal being a very multicultural French speaking city in the New World, it attracts a lot of immigrants from the developing French speaking nations. There is a substantial Arab community from the former French colonies and French sphere of influence, which includes especially Moroccans, Algerians, and Tunisians. There is also an older community of French Lebanese people, mainly Maronite Christians who left before and during the war. Anyway regarding Casablanca, the sheer number of Moroccans in Montreal has been sufficient to support fairly heavy traffic since at least the 1990s, and that's not counting all the Canadian tourists going there (moreso now than then). For a very long time, Montreal was one of only two North American destinations for Royal Air Maroc, the other being New York. I'm not sure about now given the greater competition on the route, but I know back in the 2000s RAM often sent two 747s a day in peak season.
 
Thibault973
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:09 pm

AT also offers connections beyond CMN to the rest of French speaking Africa. In 2018, 1/3 of newcomers in Quebec came from Africa, mostly from French speaking Africa.
 
jamsco99
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:02 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:05 pm

AT have a morning and evening departure from yul. Rouge also flies this route.

I used to like it when AT used the 747 to YUL. The 747 looks amazing from inside the departures area of YUL when on stand.
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:27 pm

jamsco99 wrote:
AT have a morning and evening departure from yul. Rouge also flies this route.

I used to like it when AT used the 747 to YUL. The 747 looks amazing from inside the departures area of YUL when on stand.


Air Canada mainline took over the route in 2018 with a A330-300. They now fly the route 6 weekly June to October and they are increasing from 3 to 4 weekly this winter.
 
qm001
Posts: 319
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:25 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:23 pm

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
jamsco99 wrote:
AT have a morning and evening departure from yul. Rouge also flies this route.

I used to like it when AT used the 747 to YUL. The 747 looks amazing from inside the departures area of YUL when on stand.


Air Canada mainline took over the route in 2018 with a A330-300. They now fly the route 6 weekly June to October and they are increasing from 3 to 4 weekly this winter.


Incredulously, they mainlined CMN, but Lisbon still gets Rouged! :banghead:
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2855
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:30 pm

qm001 wrote:
alexdelzotto1 wrote:
jamsco99 wrote:
AT have a morning and evening departure from yul. Rouge also flies this route.

I used to like it when AT used the 747 to YUL. The 747 looks amazing from inside the departures area of YUL when on stand.


Air Canada mainline took over the route in 2018 with a A330-300. They now fly the route 6 weekly June to October and they are increasing from 3 to 4 weekly this winter.


Incredulously, they mainlined CMN, but Lisbon still gets Rouged! :banghead:


Why is that surprising?

They are competing with AT to CMN, a full service carrier. Besides they use the ex. TP A330s with a higher density config and no lie flat business class seats to CMN. In fact I believe they sell those as Y+.

As for LIS, their only competition on the route is TS, so Rouge is the ideal tool to compete.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:47 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
qm001 wrote:
alexdelzotto1 wrote:

Air Canada mainline took over the route in 2018 with a A330-300. They now fly the route 6 weekly June to October and they are increasing from 3 to 4 weekly this winter.


Incredulously, they mainlined CMN, but Lisbon still gets Rouged! :banghead:


Why is that surprising?

They are competing with AT to CMN, a full service carrier. Besides they use the ex. TP A330s with a higher density config and no lie flat business class seats to CMN. In fact I believe they sell those as Y+.

As for LIS, their only competition on the route is TS, so Rouge is the ideal tool to compete.


AC has full J service to CMN, ALG on the other hand is operated by AC ex TAP 330
 
tofur
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:27 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
qm001 wrote:
alexdelzotto1 wrote:

Air Canada mainline took over the route in 2018 with a A330-300. They now fly the route 6 weekly June to October and they are increasing from 3 to 4 weekly this winter.


Incredulously, they mainlined CMN, but Lisbon still gets Rouged! :banghead:


Why is that surprising?

They are competing with AT to CMN, a full service carrier. Besides they use the ex. TP A330s with a higher density config and no lie flat business class seats to CMN. In fact I believe they sell those as Y+.

As for LIS, their only competition on the route is TS, so Rouge is the ideal tool to compete.


No, actually they are using original AC 333 mainline lie flat seats to Casablanca. And no, Air Transat is not the only competition,TAP Air Portugal also flies from Toronto. Here is hoping with qm001 that Lisbon goes mainline.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2855
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:02 pm

tofur wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
qm001 wrote:

Incredulously, they mainlined CMN, but Lisbon still gets Rouged! :banghead:


Why is that surprising?

They are competing with AT to CMN, a full service carrier. Besides they use the ex. TP A330s with a higher density config and no lie flat business class seats to CMN. In fact I believe they sell those as Y+.

As for LIS, their only competition on the route is TS, so Rouge is the ideal tool to compete.


No, actually they are using original AC 333 mainline lie flat seats to Casablanca. And no, Air Transat is not the only competition,TAP Air Portugal also flies from Toronto. Here is hoping with qm001 that Lisbon goes mainline.


Whatever, my point ref. CMN is still valid, and out of YUL, AC’s only competition to LIS is TS.

You won’t be seeing mainline on YUL-LIS anytime soon.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
yulexpansion
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: YUL looks like a mini DOH

Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:52 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
tofur wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:

Why is that surprising?

They are competing with AT to CMN, a full service carrier. Besides they use the ex. TP A330s with a higher density config and no lie flat business class seats to CMN. In fact I believe they sell those as Y+.

As for LIS, their only competition on the route is TS, so Rouge is the ideal tool to compete.


No, actually they are using original AC 333 mainline lie flat seats to Casablanca. And no, Air Transat is not the only competition,TAP Air Portugal also flies from Toronto. Here is hoping with qm001 that Lisbon goes mainline.


Whatever, my point ref. CMN is still valid, and out of YUL, AC’s only competition to LIS is TS.

You won’t be seeing mainline on YUL-LIS anytime soon.


The only mainline 330 market out of YUL that doesn't make sense is LYS. Leisure demand is plenty, but from the looks of it, J is struggling. Either a smaller cabin could do the job, or a rouge 767 could take over the route.

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