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Planetalk
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:25 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
Planetalk wrote:
kiowa wrote:


I believe you missed the point of my post. I see pilots as way over-regulated compared to other professions, many that do need more supervision.

In response to your post-testing is much more than “annoying” if you are the Delta pilot who gets caught drinking or doing drugs.



Plenty of coach drivers go through the same scrutiny on this. I don't think drug testing is over-regulated for someone who wants to be responsible for transporting hundreds of people. hey are plenty of jobs out there that are less well paid and involve far bigger inconveniences. I never get this attitude plots should be exempt from the requirements everyone else face.

Perhaps after the MAX debacle people need to rethink their kneejerk reaction to regulation as a bad thing?

Imagine the regulations are slackened. What do you think happens the first time a pilot is found to have flown a plane drunk and there is an incident. Do you think everyone says, 'ahh never mind, it's worth the risk so the por pilots don't have to be bothered by the horrendous inconvenience of a drug test'? hing is, most people actually want regulation to protect them and would be very upset if it were taken away. They just don't realise it.


Who said pilots should be except from testing?? How much money we make means nothing. You are creating a narrative that doesn’t exist! Of course pilots should be tested and held to a higher standard. Pilots have to report DUIs and arrests to the FAA and if you get enough or they think you are a danger they pull your license. It doesn’t have to be aircraft related, most people probably don’t know that.

In order to operate an aircraft a pilot can not be higher than a .02, again a higher standard. You are upset about something that doesn’t exist and appear to be pushing a false agenda.


I was directly responding to someone who said pilots are over-regulated. You've even quoted their post. They're still making some illogical point about customs officers. We agree so I don't quote know why you criticised my post.
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:01 am

It amazes me how some pilots still think they can get away with something stupid like this with all of the increased scrutiny from both security and sometimes passengers themselves. Do your drinking off duty and don’t screw up your job/career as well as potentially endangering lives.
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BerenErchamion
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 12:44 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:23 am

airportugal310 wrote:
I don't get the fascination with Fox here...as if CNN is any better?


It is.

FOX News has a habit of outright lying to rile up its audience.

CNN makes honest mistakes from time to time, but they at least try to be accurate, and they certainly don't intentionally mislead.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1036
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:08 am

Planetalk wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Planetalk wrote:


Plenty of coach drivers go through the same scrutiny on this. I don't think drug testing is over-regulated for someone who wants to be responsible for transporting hundreds of people. hey are plenty of jobs out there that are less well paid and involve far bigger inconveniences. I never get this attitude plots should be exempt from the requirements everyone else face.

Perhaps after the MAX debacle people need to rethink their kneejerk reaction to regulation as a bad thing?

Imagine the regulations are slackened. What do you think happens the first time a pilot is found to have flown a plane drunk and there is an incident. Do you think everyone says, 'ahh never mind, it's worth the risk so the por pilots don't have to be bothered by the horrendous inconvenience of a drug test'? hing is, most people actually want regulation to protect them and would be very upset if it were taken away. They just don't realise it.


Who said pilots should be except from testing?? How much money we make means nothing. You are creating a narrative that doesn’t exist! Of course pilots should be tested and held to a higher standard. Pilots have to report DUIs and arrests to the FAA and if you get enough or they think you are a danger they pull your license. It doesn’t have to be aircraft related, most people probably don’t know that.

In order to operate an aircraft a pilot can not be higher than a .02, again a higher standard. You are upset about something that doesn’t exist and appear to be pushing a false agenda.


I was directly responding to someone who said pilots are over-regulated. You've even quoted their post. They're still making some illogical point about customs officers. We agree so I don't quote know why you criticised my post.



Sorry I have had others due that my posts as well I apologize. Sometimes the quotes get messed up on this site.
 
AABusDrvr
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:48 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:09 am

I find it amusing that we just had a rather large thread applauding Delta for including Narcan in their onboard EMK's, but now we are trashing the HIMS program. Let's require the airlines to spend huge money for some junkey who decides to OD, but forget HIMS, hang those pilots with a problem. And if you look at the numbers for positive drug or alcohol tests among professional pilots, it's a very low number. Get back to me when everyone in the House of representatives/Congress has taken a random drug/alcohol test before a vote that affects everyone in the country.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1036
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Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:34 am

AABusDrvr wrote:
I find it amusing that we just had a rather large thread applauding Delta for including Narcan in their onboard EMK's, but now we are trashing the HIMS program. Let's require the airlines to spend huge money for some junkey who decides to OD, but forget HIMS, hang those pilots with a problem. And if you look at the numbers for positive drug or alcohol tests among professional pilots, it's a very low number. Get back to me when everyone in the House of representatives/Congress has taken a random drug/alcohol test before a vote that affects everyone in the country.


Love it!
 
kiowa
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:56 pm

AABusDrvr wrote:
I find it amusing that we just had a rather large thread applauding Delta for including Narcan in their onboard EMK's, but now we are trashing the HIMS program. Let's require the airlines to spend huge money for some junkey who decides to OD, but forget HIMS, hang those pilots with a problem. And if you look at the numbers for positive drug or alcohol tests among professional pilots, it's a very low number. Get back to me when everyone in the House of representatives/Congress has taken a random drug/alcohol test before a vote that affects everyone in the country.



Excellent post!
 
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Revelation
Posts: 23916
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Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:47 pm

fly4ever78 wrote:
Yes, lets gauge the problem. How many fatalities/accidents have occurred due to a drunk airline pilot? And who cares if they called in sick? I'm sure that never happens in any other profession (calling in sick when hungover)? Why don't we just make it mandatory for every job to blow into a tube when you show up to work. Those are some stats I'd like to gauge.

Personally, I've always wondered why bars have parking lots, but I think we're veering off topic.

Airline pilots have a safety role as a part of their job, and they are subject to strict rules about substances, just like train drivers and bus drivers are.

Your average office worker or ditch digger isn't going to put hundreds of lives at risk if they are still feeling the effects of the night before.
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by738
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:13 pm

...and there was me thinking this sort of thing only happens in Glasgow
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
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Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:08 pm

Unfortunately Delta has in it's past terminated both pilots and FA's who were tested positive using faulty, if not completely false testing data. In some cases this was overturned, but as one might imagine the toll on these falsely accused was significant.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:41 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Unfortunately Delta has in it's past terminated both pilots and FA's who were tested positive using faulty, if not completely false testing data. In some cases this was overturned, but as one might imagine the toll on these falsely accused was significant.


While this could cost him a job at DL, it wouldn't be the end of his flying career. Making it to the cockpit though and then conducting pre-flight checks would though.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:32 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Unfortunately Delta has in it's past terminated both pilots and FA's who were tested positive using faulty, if not completely false testing data. In some cases this was overturned, but as one might imagine the toll on these falsely accused was significant.


While this could cost him a job at DL, it wouldn't be the end of his flying career. Making it to the cockpit though and then conducting pre-flight checks would though.



Sorry but I have no idea what you're trying to say? Failing a drug/alcohol has repercussions for airmans certification and job here in the US.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3531
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:18 pm

BravoOne wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
Unfortunately Delta has in it's past terminated both pilots and FA's who were tested positive using faulty, if not completely false testing data. In some cases this was overturned, but as one might imagine the toll on these falsely accused was significant.


While this could cost him a job at DL, it wouldn't be the end of his flying career. Making it to the cockpit though and then conducting pre-flight checks would though.



Sorry but I have no idea what you're trying to say? Failing a drug/alcohol has repercussions for airmans certification and job here in the US.


As opposed to jail time though.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1428
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:37 pm

fly4ever78 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

You have stats to back up this “systematic problem” you claim there is? Iv been flying for a lot of years and have never run across a pilot while at work who wasn’t ready to fly. You would be surprised how many pilots including myself, don’t drink at all.

You want a cultural change for a less than 1% problem?


No, I do not, but based upon the number of incidents the last few years, and then considering that those are only the ones caught red handed.....how many called in sick or were no shows, or simply got away with it?

Sadly, the unions will likely never tell us how many people ask for help. Not that i care about personal identities, but knowing the numbers would help gauge how big the problem is.


Yes, lets gauge the problem. How many fatalities/accidents have occurred due to a drunk airline pilot? And who cares if they called in sick? I'm sure that never happens in any other profession (calling in sick when hungover)? Why don't we just make it mandatory for every job to blow into a tube when you show up to work. Those are some stats I'd like to gauge.


Every time I've ever told a pilot something was safe because it hadn't caused accidents in the past, he told me that was no indication of safety.

Because most jobs don't have the same impact upon safety. Its amazing how pilots compare their jobs to others, until contract time. Then it's all about their unique impact upon safety, and they deserve unique comensation because they really have special responsibilities.

Pilots appear to be like most other people, they flip their argument to suit the need.
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:19 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Blockplus wrote:
Arrested, held for a few hours and released. No charges yet. If he is found to not exceed limits then I expect a full apology for releasing his name. I’m sure that would happen... carrying an empty bottle is not proof of anything, and smells are not anything but a step in discovery.

That's the major issue in this case: his name was released without him being proven at fault yet. And, even if he was at fault, why splatter the guy's name all over the news?


That is common for all types of crimes in the US.

One of the more logical reasons I have heard of for releasing the names of people arrested for crimes is to prevent scenarios where the government just disappears people by arresting them and then not releasing anything about it.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:10 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

While this could cost him a job at DL, it wouldn't be the end of his flying career. Making it to the cockpit though and then conducting pre-flight checks would though.



Sorry but I have no idea what you're trying to say? Failing a drug/alcohol has repercussions for airmans certification and job here in the US.


As opposed to jail time though.



Still fail to get your drift. Fly drunk in the US and you are likely to see some jail time.
 
glideslope900
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:27 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:48 am

BravoOne wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
BravoOne wrote:


Sorry but I have no idea what you're trying to say? Failing a drug/alcohol has repercussions for airmans certification and job here in the US.


As opposed to jail time though.



Still fail to get your drift. Fly drunk in the US and you are likely to see some jail time.



The question is, did he technically attempt to act as a civil crewmember? He did not go to the gate...therefore it is debatable. I’m not aware of any official definition.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Suspected drunk DL pilot arrested just before flight

Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:29 am

AABusDrvr wrote:
I find it amusing that we just had a rather large thread applauding Delta for including Narcan in their onboard EMK's, but now we are trashing the HIMS program. Let's require the airlines to spend huge money for some junkey who decides to OD, but forget HIMS, hang those pilots with a problem. And if you look at the numbers for positive drug or alcohol tests among professional pilots, it's a very low number. Get back to me when everyone in the House of representatives/Congress has taken a random drug/alcohol test before a vote that affects everyone in the country.



Well I am consistent. I don't want narcan onboard and I don't want drunks employeed at the airline. HIMS should only be an option for those who self report. Not after they are caught.
 
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spinotter
Posts: 777
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: DL Pilot Pulled from Flight after Alcohol was found

Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:20 pm

Revelation wrote:
slider wrote:
DUI law is the one major and egregious carveout to the US Constitution that exists. Guilty before innocent.

Yep, and you are required to give evidence against yourself, and if you do not comply, you are presumed guilty.

dmg626 wrote:
If sitting in ones car, drunk with keys in ignition and engine running then yes, intent. If nowhere near car yet but maybe heading that way then no. If pilot was pinched at security, then I’m sure the Johnny Cochran would be he wasn’t going to get into plane.

In my jurisdiction, just having the key in the ignition is intent. There was a case where someone was in a parking lot "sleeping it off" with the keys in the ignition but the engine off. They gave him a blood test and he was busted for DWI.

TTailedTiger wrote:
People have their names released for alleged crimes all the time. Just because you are a pilot it doesn't make you better than anyone else.

Yep, being arrested goes in to your police record, and that is a public record, like it or not.


But by the number of DUI's that occur, and the number of accidents on the road, we see clearly that alcohol impairs the intelligence and the judgment. Thank heaven above I never injured anyone (even myself), but I did drive drunk. And it was wrong. But I think much more wrong for an airline pilot to do so, because it is definitely more than his life alone. That's why I think it should not make any difference where a pilot is caught, whether in the security line or in the cockpit. The weight of possible criminal charges has to be heavy enough to achieve practicall 100% compliance.

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