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IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:08 am

If QF were to look at launching SEA, it would be from SYD, given that it is easily within range for the 789

Most of the corporate demand that would come from the route would be bound for SYD (ie. Microsoft), but given the amount of capacity it is adding across the joint QF/AA JV, it’s hard to see them launching that route in the medium term.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:43 pm

With SCL announced as a 789, does this account for all QFs future 789 deliveries? If not when do we expect an announcement for JNB - most likely also going daily.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:02 pm

QF will likely be ordering the next batch of 787’s next year I think I read recently. It will continue to order in smaller batches to manage its capex.

I think that with the 6 new frames coming, the announced SYD-SFO/SCL routes would take up the bulk of those frames. Still likely have 2 aircraft it could use in some way, however it does need some more flexibility in its fleet given that it does face significant challenges with its operations in future , as it will no longer be able to rely on using the 747’s as a backup.
 
Captdasbomb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:26 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
QF will likely be ordering the next batch of 787’s next year I think I read recently. It will continue to order in smaller batches to manage its capex.

I think that with the 6 new frames coming, the announced SYD-SFO/SCL routes would take up the bulk of those frames. Still likely have 2 aircraft it could use in some way, however it does need some more flexibility in its fleet given that it does face significant challenges with its operations in future , as it will no longer be able to rely on using the 747’s as a backup.


SYD-SCL daily from June 2020 is 2 frames
SYD-SFO yet to be announced. Currently daily 747
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:28 pm

Captdasbomb wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
QF will likely be ordering the next batch of 787’s next year I think I read recently. It will continue to order in smaller batches to manage its capex.

I think that with the 6 new frames coming, the announced SYD-SFO/SCL routes would take up the bulk of those frames. Still likely have 2 aircraft it could use in some way, however it does need some more flexibility in its fleet given that it does face significant challenges with its operations in future , as it will no longer be able to rely on using the 747’s as a backup.


SYD-SCL daily from June 2020 is 2 frames
SYD-SFO yet to be announced. Currently daily 747


SYD-SFO has been announced, 789 replaces 744 from 4 Dec 19

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... stination/
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:43 pm

This weekend marked the 30th anniversary since QF's record breaking flight with VH-OJA from LHR to SYD

https://australianaviation.com.au/2019/ ... rd-flight/
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:56 pm

I don't know what to make of this but perhaps someone else can, this rumour (that's what I will refer to it as of now until something more solid comes of it, though the source of this had been fairly reliable in the past) posted on Executive Traveller (formally AusBT) forum and is related to the temporary reduction in EK services in November

Apparently this could be a trial for possible trial for fleet deployment to be allocated next year and here is the big news with QF to announce a 787 order at the next AGM to replace some EK services to Europe, either via PER or SIN

Whilst this does correspond to scheduled downtime in the EK fleet, there are murmurings that this will also constitute a trial of the possible fleet deployment next year - in anticipation of a relatively large QF 787 order that will allegedly come next AGM (with possible Sunrise tidbits).
Pundits have already predicted a shrinking presence from Middle Eastern airlines due to the falling oil price, however the rumours regarding QF 787 deployment to Europe to fill in the gaps(unknown if this will be ex PER or SIN) are certainly starting to spread around airline ops rooms!



https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... nouncement

Again Im not sure what to make of this as only about 10 days ago AJ said they would not order any more 787's until Project Sunrise was resolved but given the latest developments on the 778 being pushed back, however is Boeing offering 787's to QF with further enhancements to tie them over till 778's are available. The term with possible Sunrise tidbits, is that referring to the 787 or something else?
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A350OZ
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:19 pm

Does anyone know why QF158 AKL-MEL went tech last night? Waiting at AKL for the rescheduled 7am departure now (an almost 12 hour delay).

It seemed yesterday as if the plane coming in from BNE had an issue, and then they shuffled aircrafts around and decided to operate BNE and SYD flights, but cancel MEL.
 
AsiaTravel
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:28 pm

qf789 wrote:
I don't know what to make of this but perhaps someone else can, this rumour (that's what I will refer to it as of now until something more solid comes of it, though the source of this had been fairly reliable in the past) posted on Executive Traveller (formally AusBT) forum and is related to the temporary reduction in EK services in November

Apparently this could be a trial for possible trial for fleet deployment to be allocated next year and here is the big news with QF to announce a 787 order at the next AGM to replace some EK services to Europe, either via PER or SIN

Whilst this does correspond to scheduled downtime in the EK fleet, there are murmurings that this will also constitute a trial of the possible fleet deployment next year - in anticipation of a relatively large QF 787 order that will allegedly come next AGM (with possible Sunrise tidbits).
Pundits have already predicted a shrinking presence from Middle Eastern airlines due to the falling oil price, however the rumours regarding QF 787 deployment to Europe to fill in the gaps(unknown if this will be ex PER or SIN) are certainly starting to spread around airline ops rooms!



https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... nouncement

Again Im not sure what to make of this as only about 10 days ago AJ said they would not order any more 787's until Project Sunrise was resolved but given the latest developments on the 778 being pushed back, however is Boeing offering 787's to QF with further enhancements to tie them over till 778's are available. The term with possible Sunrise tidbits, is that referring to the 787 or something else?


Isn't EK always reducing Australia in November? I don't really understand the logic behind the comment.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:39 pm

qf789 wrote:
I don't know what to make of this but perhaps someone else can, this rumour (that's what I will refer to it as of now until something more solid comes of it, though the source of this had been fairly reliable in the past) posted on Executive Traveller (formally AusBT) forum and is related to the temporary reduction in EK services in November

Apparently this could be a trial for possible trial for fleet deployment to be allocated next year and here is the big news with QF to announce a 787 order at the next AGM to replace some EK services to Europe, either via PER or SIN

Whilst this does correspond to scheduled downtime in the EK fleet, there are murmurings that this will also constitute a trial of the possible fleet deployment next year - in anticipation of a relatively large QF 787 order that will allegedly come next AGM (with possible Sunrise tidbits).
Pundits have already predicted a shrinking presence from Middle Eastern airlines due to the falling oil price, however the rumours regarding QF 787 deployment to Europe to fill in the gaps(unknown if this will be ex PER or SIN) are certainly starting to spread around airline ops rooms!



https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... nouncement

Again Im not sure what to make of this as only about 10 days ago AJ said they would not order any more 787's until Project Sunrise was resolved but given the latest developments on the 778 being pushed back, however is Boeing offering 787's to QF with further enhancements to tie them over till 778's are available. The term with possible Sunrise tidbits, is that referring to the 787 or something else?


I'm calling BS on this. An airline does not 'trial' it's future fleet deployment. If EK are trimming capacity for 3 weeks in a quiet month it's because that is smart capacity discipline, I don't think there's anything more to be read into that.
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:24 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
qf789 wrote:
I don't know what to make of this but perhaps someone else can, this rumour (that's what I will refer to it as of now until something more solid comes of it, though the source of this had been fairly reliable in the past) posted on Executive Traveller (formally AusBT) forum and is related to the temporary reduction in EK services in November

Apparently this could be a trial for possible trial for fleet deployment to be allocated next year and here is the big news with QF to announce a 787 order at the next AGM to replace some EK services to Europe, either via PER or SIN

Whilst this does correspond to scheduled downtime in the EK fleet, there are murmurings that this will also constitute a trial of the possible fleet deployment next year - in anticipation of a relatively large QF 787 order that will allegedly come next AGM (with possible Sunrise tidbits).
Pundits have already predicted a shrinking presence from Middle Eastern airlines due to the falling oil price, however the rumours regarding QF 787 deployment to Europe to fill in the gaps(unknown if this will be ex PER or SIN) are certainly starting to spread around airline ops rooms!



https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... nouncement

Again Im not sure what to make of this as only about 10 days ago AJ said they would not order any more 787's until Project Sunrise was resolved but given the latest developments on the 778 being pushed back, however is Boeing offering 787's to QF with further enhancements to tie them over till 778's are available. The term with possible Sunrise tidbits, is that referring to the 787 or something else?


I'm calling BS on this. An airline does not 'trial' it's future fleet deployment. If EK are trimming capacity for 3 weeks in a quiet month it's because that is smart capacity discipline, I don't think there's anything more to be read into that.


I agree - how would this benefit EK, this sounds like the end of the alliance then. I can’t see it happening. Only FRA and CDG would be viable ex-PER in competition with EK, and only once the PER mess is sorted. However I do suspect more 789 orders to occur - maybe a further 6?

Are there any runway works due in DXB? This normally causes a reduction in EKs schedule.
 
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rtav
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:17 pm

EK is increasing the PER service in December so I doubt this would be a trial of fleet deployment. Probably just reallocating resources to where they’re needed most - not on Australian routes.
 
aryonoco
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:41 am

moa999 wrote:
And QF Club members and Elites still have access to EK lounges and vv.

The partnership was extended to 2022


Interesting how that timeline works in relation to Project Sunrise.

I know it's all conjecture at this point, but If/when sunrise starts, do we expect the alliance to continue? Wouldn't make much sense for EK going forward I'd think.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:54 am

aryonoco wrote:
moa999 wrote:
And QF Club members and Elites still have access to EK lounges and vv.

The partnership was extended to 2022


Interesting how that timeline works in relation to Project Sunrise.

I know it's all conjecture at this point, but If/when sunrise starts, do we expect the alliance to continue? Wouldn't make much sense for EK going forward I'd think.


I'd think it would continue to make as much sense for EK as it does for QF, if not bigger benefit to EK. EK is able to attract a giant pool of QF Frequent Fliers to use its services and allow easy connections on QF domestic services. Whilst it may not be the alliance that was envisaged when it was first announced, it still has plenty of value to both airlines.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:55 am

Still a lot of Qantas FFers not flying to LHR, and it takes time to double back and LHR is an average transit point.

If EK moves away, then traffic would naturally flow to QR (assuming it stays in oneworld), and I don't think EK would be keen on that.

But a lot could change in the next couple of years
 
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vhqpa
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:38 am

The interesting thing is for Europe QF prioritise BA codeshares through LHR over the onestop EK options through DXB.

Doing search on a random date for BNE-VIE the first eight options are a combination of BNE-SIN/PER-LHR-VIE, or even BNE-MEL-PER-LHR-VIE, before BNE-DXB-VIE comes up as the ninth option.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:33 am

aryonoco wrote:
If/when sunrise starts, do we expect the alliance to continue? Wouldn't make much sense for EK going forward I'd think.


The way i see Europe/ME traffic is this:

QF to Europe on EK services - more cost sensitive people who are willing to take a stop on the way to lower cost, and people who don't want to transit in LHR if they are going to other European locations.
QF to LHR/Europe via SIN - same as above but want to fly via Asia (ie the anything but EK/DXB option), a smaller market but important one to cater for
QF direct to LHR - premium pax who will pay to eliminate a stop. This market may take some of the current QF and EK traffic but will importantly take some of the traffic going to SQ, CX et al too.

For EK nothing much changes, their benefit is and has always been getting better access into the QF domestic network (as noted above) which is a key attraction for EK passengers from other locations (as it is in reality to all carriers who work with QF to distribute their pax in Aust/NZ).

So yes EK will still have a role, using its large, low CASK aircraft to give the more budget conscious people a QF ticketed option.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:42 am

vhqpa wrote:
The interesting thing is for Europe QF prioritise BA codeshares through LHR over the onestop EK options through DXB.

Doing search on a random date for BNE-VIE the first eight options are a combination of BNE-SIN/PER-LHR-VIE, or even BNE-MEL-PER-LHR-VIE, before BNE-DXB-VIE comes up as the ninth option.

QF's search is kinda weird especially as the EK option is often much cheaper and quicker. I don't know what to make of it but I have always believed if the choice is between a conspiracy and a stuff-up, always back the stuff-up.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:04 am

It's not a 'stuff up' in as much as it's a deliberate attempt to push traffic onto Qantas metal, but in some cases it must surely push people away because it shows some ridiculous options higher than the most direct/cheaper option if it involves partner metal, and in some cases doesn't show the partner flights at all. I know enough about the various options to call Qantas if the website isn't giving me the option I want, but most passengers wouldn't have enough knowledge of the route and carrier combinations not listed to think that there were better flights available.
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:33 am

The 3C's of yield management... What I the airline see, what you the consumer see, and most important of all, what I want you to see.
 
TasFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:17 pm

eta unknown wrote:
The 3C's of yield management... What I the airline see, what you the consumer see, and most important of all, what I want you to see.


Yes, in a similar vein, the QANTAS domestic timetable, and hence the booking search too, doesn't even show JetStar services on some routes at all —not even as a lower priority!
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:04 pm

I concur with RyanairGuru. The default filter “direct flights” is a deliberate attempt to maximise revenue for QF by keeping the pax on QF metal the longest. I found flights to Europe to be the real problem, as QF want you on QF1 or 9 all the way to LHR. Everywhere else wasn’t too bad (still some dumb options e.g. MEL-PER-BNE-LAX, And pricing the same flights with and without a QF flight number despite having the same price).

The best workaround is to use Google Flights when you search qantas on Google, or filter by just Qantas on Google Flights. Google flights ONLY prices QF coded flights from the Qantas website and not from OTA sites. A random search from MEL-FCO return in early September had Emirates as the lowest price and quickest, listed 9th on the QF website. Same with flights to MEL-HEL, via SIN on AY metal/QF codeshare, #1 on Google but not even an option on the QF website.

The best thing is once you have chosen your flights it takes you to the QF website to finalise your booking. The whole UX is great, and I’m sure Qantas pays Google, the trade off is they keep more of the revenue.

Kayak also does this, it will not sell you QF coded flights on other OTA and instead take you directly to the QF website.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:28 am

From 1 November, SQ's SIN-MEL-WLG will be operated by 3 class A359 replacing 772, this makes all routes to Australia with lie flat seats in J now

https://www.executivetraveller.com/sing ... wellington
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:00 am

QF's first A321 freighter will be MSN835, a former BMI and Onur Air A321

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... me-460354/
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:09 am

Qantas to invest in regional Australia by given $10 million in bigger discounts. Initially one way fares from selected regional centres will be capped at $400 one way

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... australia/

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 52ixd.html
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cougar15
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:15 pm

qf789 wrote:
Qantas to invest in regional Australia by given $10 million in bigger discounts. Initially one way fares from selected regional centres will be capped at $400 one way

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... australia/

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 52ixd.html


… and in the meantime, In Europe you will do those same and much longer sector lengths on a brand new Easy A320 or Ryan 738 for under 50 bucks each way, instead of on a clapped out 30 year old F100.....! Why this (countries) population allows this sort of highway robbery by the duopoly interested in shareholder value only is a mystery to me, even as an Aussie, but maybe I spent far to long in Europe and will not for the life of me understand why I need to spend this sort of money to visit my dear old uncle ´500 clicks up the road...`!
But then, we all seem to put up with it and get all exited about news like this...….
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:29 pm

cougar15 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas to invest in regional Australia by given $10 million in bigger discounts. Initially one way fares from selected regional centres will be capped at $400 one way

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... australia/

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 52ixd.html


… and in the meantime, In Europe you will do those same and much longer sector lengths on a brand new Easy A320 or Ryan 738 for under 50 bucks each way, instead of on a clapped out 30 year old F100.....! Why this (countries) population allows this sort of highway robbery by the duopoly interested in shareholder value only is a mystery to me, even as an Aussie, but maybe I spent far to long in Europe and will not for the life of me understand why I need to spend this sort of money to visit my dear old uncle ´500 clicks up the road...`!
But then, we all seem to put up with it and get all exited about news like this...….


I’ve always found the excruciatingly high prices for regional travel in Australia ludicrous... can someone please explain why they are so high? Are the costs flying to remote places significantly more? Or is it simply a case of greed and ripping people off because of lack of competition?

It baffles me that JQ doesn’t fly to Broome - arguably WAs best tourist hot spot. LCC service would most definitely stimulate the tiring tourism industry. I was looking at flights from Melbourne in October and can’t find anything for less than $1000 return. No wonder people go to Bali instead.

JQ could definitely operate PER-BME year round and seasonal MEL/SYD-BME.
 
jupiter2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:58 pm

ben175 wrote:
cougar15 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas to invest in regional Australia by given $10 million in bigger discounts. Initially one way fares from selected regional centres will be capped at $400 one way

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... australia/

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 52ixd.html


… and in the meantime, In Europe you will do those same and much longer sector lengths on a brand new Easy A320 or Ryan 738 for under 50 bucks each way, instead of on a clapped out 30 year old F100.....! Why this (countries) population allows this sort of highway robbery by the duopoly interested in shareholder value only is a mystery to me, even as an Aussie, but maybe I spent far to long in Europe and will not for the life of me understand why I need to spend this sort of money to visit my dear old uncle ´500 clicks up the road...`!
But then, we all seem to put up with it and get all exited about news like this...….


I’ve always found the excruciatingly high prices for regional travel in Australia ludicrous... can someone please explain why they are so high? Are the costs flying to remote places significantly more? Or is it simply a case of greed and ripping people off because of lack of competition?

It baffles me that JQ doesn’t fly to Broome - arguably WAs best tourist hot spot. LCC service would most definitely stimulate the tiring tourism industry. I was looking at flights from Melbourne in October and can’t find anything for less than $1000 return. No wonder people go to Bali instead.

JQ could definitely operate PER-BME year round and seasonal MEL/SYD-BME.


I'm not sure what you guys expect, but distances and lack of population are the two greatest obstacles to increased service, competition and lower fares.

The example of Perth to Broome is a distance of 1682 kms, with Broome having a population of approx 14000 people. Comparing that to London to Rome which is 1440 kms, huge populations at both ends and in the mean time has also flown over several countries and tens of millions of people. The flight to Broome flies mostly over desert and maybe 500000 people of which 98 % are in Perth. So we have a destination with very little O/D demand, excluding FIFO, with a comparatively small tourist demand. Why should airlines offer cheap fares ? There just isn't enough demand to fly to these places, to stimulate competition and in so doing bring down air fares.

As for the 500 km segments, most people will drive for the shear convenience of it. I used to do Sydney to Port Macquarie 5/6 times a year for 10 years, I flew it maybe 4 times and that was only because my family was already up there. The expense of flying and what little time savings there were, just meant it wasn't worth the effort to fly. Sure if you're a businessman those couple of hours are worth it, but for the average family, it's pack the car, hit the road for 5 hours and you're there, with the added benefit of not having to worry about transport at the other end and it being a damn site cheaper.
 
Captdasbomb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:47 pm

Anyone know whats wrong with VH-ZNG? Its been in LA for the last couple of days
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:29 pm

ben175 wrote:
cougar15 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas to invest in regional Australia by given $10 million in bigger discounts. Initially one way fares from selected regional centres will be capped at $400 one way

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... australia/

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/wes ... 52ixd.html


… and in the meantime, In Europe you will do those same and much longer sector lengths on a brand new Easy A320 or Ryan 738 for under 50 bucks each way, instead of on a clapped out 30 year old F100.....! Why this (countries) population allows this sort of highway robbery by the duopoly interested in shareholder value only is a mystery to me, even as an Aussie, but maybe I spent far to long in Europe and will not for the life of me understand why I need to spend this sort of money to visit my dear old uncle ´500 clicks up the road...`!
But then, we all seem to put up with it and get all exited about news like this...….


I’ve always found the excruciatingly high prices for regional travel in Australia ludicrous... can someone please explain why they are so high? Are the costs flying to remote places significantly more? Or is it simply a case of greed and ripping people off because of lack of competition?

It baffles me that JQ doesn’t fly to Broome - arguably WAs best tourist hot spot. LCC service would most definitely stimulate the tiring tourism industry. I was looking at flights from Melbourne in October and can’t find anything for less than $1000 return. No wonder people go to Bali instead.

JQ could definitely operate PER-BME year round and seasonal MEL/SYD-BME.


tend to agree, comparing it to Europe there's been a distinct lack of innovation by low cost carriers in Aus, looking at both JQ and TT, on trying something out of the box.
the potential airport combinations of Ryanair as an example is mind boggling, but in Australia we see very little of it.

for the low cost market segment flights don't need to be daily, 2-3 flights a week to some interesting combinations out of the regions could work. even just picking OOL as a destination, a twice a week WGA-OOL or MQL-OOL as two examples could create demand and the regions would clamour for it.
Even just as a summer trial, the same way VA is trying a seasonal NTL-AKL.
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:37 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
cougar15 wrote:

… and in the meantime, In Europe you will do those same and much longer sector lengths on a brand new Easy A320 or Ryan 738 for under 50 bucks each way, instead of on a clapped out 30 year old F100.....! Why this (countries) population allows this sort of highway robbery by the duopoly interested in shareholder value only is a mystery to me, even as an Aussie, but maybe I spent far to long in Europe and will not for the life of me understand why I need to spend this sort of money to visit my dear old uncle ´500 clicks up the road...`!
But then, we all seem to put up with it and get all exited about news like this...….


I’ve always found the excruciatingly high prices for regional travel in Australia ludicrous... can someone please explain why they are so high? Are the costs flying to remote places significantly more? Or is it simply a case of greed and ripping people off because of lack of competition?

It baffles me that JQ doesn’t fly to Broome - arguably WAs best tourist hot spot. LCC service would most definitely stimulate the tiring tourism industry. I was looking at flights from Melbourne in October and can’t find anything for less than $1000 return. No wonder people go to Bali instead.

JQ could definitely operate PER-BME year round and seasonal MEL/SYD-BME.


I'm not sure what you guys expect, but distances and lack of population are the two greatest obstacles to increased service, competition and lower fares.

The example of Perth to Broome is a distance of 1682 kms, with Broome having a population of approx 14000 people. Comparing that to London to Rome which is 1440 kms, huge populations at both ends and in the mean time has also flown over several countries and tens of millions of people. The flight to Broome flies mostly over desert and maybe 500000 people of which 98 % are in Perth. So we have a destination with very little O/D demand, excluding FIFO, with a comparatively small tourist demand. Why should airlines offer cheap fares ? There just isn't enough demand to fly to these places, to stimulate competition and in so doing bring down air fares.

As for the 500 km segments, most people will drive for the shear convenience of it. I used to do Sydney to Port Macquarie 5/6 times a year for 10 years, I flew it maybe 4 times and that was only because my family was already up there. The expense of flying and what little time savings there were, just meant it wasn't worth the effort to fly. Sure if you're a businessman those couple of hours are worth it, but for the average family, it's pack the car, hit the road for 5 hours and you're there, with the added benefit of not having to worry about transport at the other end and it being a damn site cheaper.


Yet there are multiple daily flights on both QF and VA to BME from PER and direct services from the East Coast - it’s not like this is a destinations with 3 services a week. QF handing one of its frequencies to JQ would do nothing but allow leisure passengers an opportunity to visit the paradise in their own backyard rather than spending their dollars abroad in Bali or Phuket.
 
log0008
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:07 am

BHP have exclusive rights to about 75 seats per flight on the MEL-BME-MEL flight, it won't be downgraded to JQ for that reason.
 
getluv
Posts: 547
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:32 am

I think some people forget the fundamental realities of living in a country with only 25 million people and as dispersed as Australia is. We are geographically isolated, even amongst each other. Canada is really the only comparable market, but geographically they have more advantages.

The Australian market can really only sustain a duopoly. The history of Australian airline industry supports this even with airfares were notably higher.

The industry may share some of the blame in what is happening in the regions, but all forms of governments should be blamed by not investing or promoting the regions sufficiently and effectively.

The onus isn't on QF and VA to use their low cost brands to drive traffic to these places but rather the governments and town councils to make these places more attractive for people to visit, i.e. things to do, places to stay. From this, demand will drive prices down.
I'm that bad type.
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1706
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:47 am

ben175 wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
ben175 wrote:

I’ve always found the excruciatingly high prices for regional travel in Australia ludicrous... can someone please explain why they are so high? Are the costs flying to remote places significantly more? Or is it simply a case of greed and ripping people off because of lack of competition?

It baffles me that JQ doesn’t fly to Broome - arguably WAs best tourist hot spot. LCC service would most definitely stimulate the tiring tourism industry. I was looking at flights from Melbourne in October and can’t find anything for less than $1000 return. No wonder people go to Bali instead.

JQ could definitely operate PER-BME year round and seasonal MEL/SYD-BME.


I'm not sure what you guys expect, but distances and lack of population are the two greatest obstacles to increased service, competition and lower fares.

The example of Perth to Broome is a distance of 1682 kms, with Broome having a population of approx 14000 people. Comparing that to London to Rome which is 1440 kms, huge populations at both ends and in the mean time has also flown over several countries and tens of millions of people. The flight to Broome flies mostly over desert and maybe 500000 people of which 98 % are in Perth. So we have a destination with very little O/D demand, excluding FIFO, with a comparatively small tourist demand. Why should airlines offer cheap fares ? There just isn't enough demand to fly to these places, to stimulate competition and in so doing bring down air fares.

As for the 500 km segments, most people will drive for the shear convenience of it. I used to do Sydney to Port Macquarie 5/6 times a year for 10 years, I flew it maybe 4 times and that was only because my family was already up there. The expense of flying and what little time savings there were, just meant it wasn't worth the effort to fly. Sure if you're a businessman those couple of hours are worth it, but for the average family, it's pack the car, hit the road for 5 hours and you're there, with the added benefit of not having to worry about transport at the other end and it being a damn site cheaper.


Yet there are multiple daily flights on both QF and VA to BME from PER and direct services from the East Coast - it’s not like this is a destinations with 3 services a week. QF handing one of its frequencies to JQ would do nothing but allow leisure passengers an opportunity to visit the paradise in their own backyard rather than spending their dollars abroad in Bali or Phuket.


The vast majority of flights to BME are tied to the mining industry though, even the flights to the East Coast are tailored towards the FIFO market. As said above, governments need to promote regional Australia not just to visit, but for people to live in these communities. To do that they first need to spend funds on infrastructure and probably even offer inducements for people to make the move. There is no cheap, easy solution for population spread in this country and as a consequence don't expect low coast services in regional Australian cities (towns) unless it's from a major city to an established mid sized minimum tourist destination, such as Coffs Harbour, Ballina, or the Queensland coastal towns.
 
moa999
Posts: 641
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:02 am

The private ownership of most of our airports doesn't help..

Many of the cheap fares in Europe are driven by subsidies from local/state governments trying to drive investment and tourism (albeit I think many now have got sick of RyanAir etal pulling out once the subsidy ends).

Jetstar tried to develop a Darwin hub a decade ago for flights into Asia but there was limited support and the whole thing floundered.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2008-04- ... ub/2407148
 
aryonoco
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 1:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:39 am

getluv wrote:
The Australian market can really only sustain a duopoly. The history of Australian airline industry supports this even with airfares were notably higher.


I absolutely agree with this, but I think there's an argument to be made to allow cabotage for regional Australia to induce some competition.

I don't think foreign carriers will be flooding the market or anything, but someone, perhaps D7, might start services on a few routes, which would do wonders for the economy of those regions.
 
TasFlyer
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:08 am

jupiter2 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:

I'm not sure what you guys expect, but distances and lack of population are the two greatest obstacles to increased service, competition and lower fares.

The example of Perth to Broome is a distance of 1682 kms, with Broome having a population of approx 14000 people. Comparing that to London to Rome which is 1440 kms, huge populations at both ends and in the mean time has also flown over several countries and tens of millions of people. The flight to Broome flies mostly over desert and maybe 500000 people of which 98 % are in Perth. So we have a destination with very little O/D demand, excluding FIFO, with a comparatively small tourist demand. Why should airlines offer cheap fares ? There just isn't enough demand to fly to these places, to stimulate competition and in so doing bring down air fares.

As for the 500 km segments, most people will drive for the shear convenience of it. I used to do Sydney to Port Macquarie 5/6 times a year for 10 years, I flew it maybe 4 times and that was only because my family was already up there. The expense of flying and what little time savings there were, just meant it wasn't worth the effort to fly. Sure if you're a businessman those couple of hours are worth it, but for the average family, it's pack the car, hit the road for 5 hours and you're there, with the added benefit of not having to worry about transport at the other end and it being a damn site cheaper.


Yet there are multiple daily flights on both QF and VA to BME from PER and direct services from the East Coast - it’s not like this is a destinations with 3 services a week. QF handing one of its frequencies to JQ would do nothing but allow leisure passengers an opportunity to visit the paradise in their own backyard rather than spending their dollars abroad in Bali or Phuket.


The vast majority of flights to BME are tied to the mining industry though, even the flights to the East Coast are tailored towards the FIFO market. As said above, governments need to promote regional Australia not just to visit, but for people to live in these communities. To do that they first need to spend funds on infrastructure and probably even offer inducements for people to make the move. There is no cheap, easy solution for population spread in this country and as a consequence don't expect low coast services in regional Australian cities (towns) unless it's from a major city to an established mid sized minimum tourist destination, such as Coffs Harbour, Ballina, or the Queensland coastal towns.


IIRC, JQ had planned to commence BME in 2005, bit it never eventuated.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:11 am

aryonoco wrote:
getluv wrote:
The Australian market can really only sustain a duopoly. The history of Australian airline industry supports this even with airfares were notably higher.


I absolutely agree with this, but I think there's an argument to be made to allow cabotage for regional Australia to induce some competition.

I don't think foreign carriers will be flooding the market or anything, but someone, perhaps D7, might start services on a few routes, which would do wonders for the economy of those regions.


Please, name a single route 'for regional Australia' that a foreign carrier would be interested in operating.
 
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EK413
Posts: 5290
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:07 pm

Captdasbomb wrote:
Anyone know whats wrong with VH-ZNG? Its been in LA for the last couple of days


Heard the aircraft had an unplanned engine change in LAX


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
HM7
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:01 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:47 pm

Anyone know what time qantas results come out today?
CRJ200, Q400, E175, E195, MD88, MD90, A320, A332, A380, B717, B734, B738, B739, B752, B762, B763ER, B789, B744, B744ER
 
Chris2302
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:27 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:01 pm

8:30-9am
 
smi0006
Posts: 2393
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:24 pm

Hopefully some meaty news comes along with it!

Will be very interesting to see the international results obet the next 3-5 as we see their international networks shift with all the new routes.
 
ArtV
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:29 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:36 pm

moa999 wrote:
Jetstar tried to develop a Darwin hub a decade ago for flights into Asia but there was limited support and the whole thing floundered.


I recall that the Darwin airport costs were the highest in the country, and JQ couldn't get these down to make a the hub commercially viable. Makes me wonder what modelling they did when they started the hub originally ("if we bring enough pax, do you reckon they will decrease costs by xx%....let's give it a go and hope.").
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2458
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:39 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
aryonoco wrote:
getluv wrote:
The Australian market can really only sustain a duopoly. The history of Australian airline industry supports this even with airfares were notably higher.


I absolutely agree with this, but I think there's an argument to be made to allow cabotage for regional Australia to induce some competition.

I don't think foreign carriers will be flooding the market or anything, but someone, perhaps D7, might start services on a few routes, which would do wonders for the economy of those regions.


Please, name a single route 'for regional Australia' that a foreign carrier would be interested in operating.


Yeah I agree, plus the budget conscious tourists those low cost airlines would bring are not the ones that are wanted in regional areas.
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:32 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
aryonoco wrote:

I absolutely agree with this, but I think there's an argument to be made to allow cabotage for regional Australia to induce some competition.

I don't think foreign carriers will be flooding the market or anything, but someone, perhaps D7, might start services on a few routes, which would do wonders for the economy of those regions.


Please, name a single route 'for regional Australia' that a foreign carrier would be interested in operating.


Yeah I agree, plus the budget conscious tourists those low cost airlines would bring are not the ones that are wanted in regional areas.


The LCCCs rely on scale. Their model is several hundred full-size jets, being used 17 hours a day, with no less than 170 or so people on board every flight, every day, every week, every month. Those are simply not the conditions regional Australia offers.

Having said that, on the East Coast Jetstar & Tiger serve a lot of secondary airports, like Mackay, Proserpine, Coffs Harbour etc. There simply isn't enough draw to inland destinations or WA.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:31 pm

Qantas report underlying profit before tax of $1.3 billion

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... t-in-fy19/
Forum Moderator
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:56 pm

All 3 789 delivery flights will be used as research flights for Project Sunrise with the delivery flights repositioned to either JFK or LHR and then operating non stop to SYD

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... australia/
Forum Moderator
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1719
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:36 am

Investment announcements by QF:

1. A complete refurbishment of Qantas’ 12 Airbus A380 aircraft, including upgrades to each class of cabin, a new on-board lounge and 27 per cent increase in premium seating. Work on the first aircraft is underway, which is expected to be in service by September.
2. Delivery of six additional 787-9s for Qantas International from October 2019, taking the total fleet to 14 aircraft.
3. Increasing lounge capacity in Qantas’ Singapore hub by 60 per cent, including an expansion to the existing Business Lounge and opening of a new First lounge.
4. Rolling out $25 million of improvements to Frequent Flyer, including 1 million more reward seats per annum, reducing some carrier charges for points bookings by up to 50 per cent and cutting the points required for international Economy seats by up to 10 per cent.
5. Progress towards cutting 100 million single-use plastics by end-2020 and eliminating 75 per cent of waste to landfill by end-2021.
6. Preparations to introduce the A321 NEO to Jetstar, with 18 aircraft to begin arriving from mid-2020

Im lost on the 789s - are these 6 new orders?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2183
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:41 am

qf2220 wrote:
Investment announcements by QF:

1. A complete refurbishment of Qantas’ 12 Airbus A380 aircraft, including upgrades to each class of cabin, a new on-board lounge and 27 per cent increase in premium seating. Work on the first aircraft is underway, which is expected to be in service by September.
2. Delivery of six additional 787-9s for Qantas International from October 2019, taking the total fleet to 14 aircraft.
3. Increasing lounge capacity in Qantas’ Singapore hub by 60 per cent, including an expansion to the existing Business Lounge and opening of a new First lounge.
4. Rolling out $25 million of improvements to Frequent Flyer, including 1 million more reward seats per annum, reducing some carrier charges for points bookings by up to 50 per cent and cutting the points required for international Economy seats by up to 10 per cent.
5. Progress towards cutting 100 million single-use plastics by end-2020 and eliminating 75 per cent of waste to landfill by end-2021.
6. Preparations to introduce the A321 NEO to Jetstar, with 18 aircraft to begin arriving from mid-2020

Im lost on the 789s - are these 6 new orders?

No, I believe these are the existing orders which are due over the next year. All of the investment announcements listed have previously been announced.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
aryonoco
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 1:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2019

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:44 am

qf2220 wrote:

Im lost on the 789s - are these 6 new orders?


Nope.
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